Get Ready For Pey-Luck, According To Hub

[supremecoltsfan300]

I agree with you there. My point is that it takes more than just great D. The saying "Defense wins championships" is a cliche and overused and in my opinion, wrong. It usually takes a complete team to win.

we sort of agree and disagree. i guess i mean that every team that wins needs a great d. just because u have a great d doesnt mean u will win but without one u cant win.

[Flash7]

Were the Giants a "great" team when they beat NE? Or did they just play a great game and get lucky? What about the year the Colts won it, I don't think anyone would say that overall they were a great team. They got hot in the playoffs, had a few lucky breaks go their way and won it. Great teams don't always win the SB

dn...such a contrarian. So when the Giants played NE they didn't have a good offense and a good defense? They were'nt balanced?

When the Colts won the Super Bowl, they got hot late in the season when Bob Sanders returned from injury and played lights out. That year, they weren't able to stop the run but did not allow for many passing yards agains them. When Sanders returned they were good against the run and the pass. During the Playoffs and the Superbowl, they were a complete team. Good on offense and good on defense. They did not have many holes, aside from ST.

You are right in that great teams don't always win the Superbowl. But the exception is not the rule. More often than not, the more balanced teams do win. You need both a good offense and a good defense to win, not just a strong defense.

[billpolianx]

who says the colts don't owe peyton anything he put this team on the map so to speak, besides luck is just too darn ugly to be making all those commercials manning has made irsay a lot of money that he would not have made by putting * in those expensive seats

[Flash7]

we sort of agree and disagree. i guess i mean that every team that wins needs a great d. just because u have a great d doesnt mean u will win but without one u cant win.

Sorry...I don't mean to go back and forth with you. I think that overall we both sort of agree. I would like to point out that when the Colts faced the Bears in the Superbowl, the Bears had a better defense and way better special teams. We had a better offense and we know how that Super Bowl ended.

[supremecoltsfan300]

Sorry...I don't mean to go back and forth with you. I think that overall we both sort of agree. I would like to point out that when the Colts faced the Bears in the Superbowl, the Bears had a better defense and way better special teams. We had a better offense and we know how that Super Bowl ended.

dont get me wrong im all for offense, i just want a more solid d. I think im still dealing with the fact that our d cost us so many times when it mattered most. And the lack of turnovers some years......arrrgg. and yea our o was better than the bears d

[FireJimCaldwell]

who says the colts don't owe peyton anything he put this team on the map so to speak, besides luck is just too darn ugly to be making all those commercials manning has made irsay a lot of money that he would not have made by putting * in those expensive seats

Lucas Oil Stadium is the House that Manning Built, and it is the Los Angeles Colts at this point without him.

[supremecoltsfan300]

Lucas Oil Stadium is the House that Manning Built, and it is the Los Angeles Colts at this point without him.

i dont think a truer post as ever been posted.

[BProland85]

It is tricky and I am glad I don't have to decide. I would love nothing more than Manning to ride off into the sunset with another Super Bowl championship, i am not naive enough to think its likely at this point. Its not exactly a talent laden roster, especially on defense and teams like the Packers, Saints, Pats, etc aren't exactly going down either.

I think drafting Luck is a no brainier, then it comes down to if you keep Manning or not assuming he is healthy. What if someone is willing to trade you a top 5 pick for him? What if you could get Andrew Luck and Alshon Jeffrey?

The Colts don't owe Peyton anything, they have already paid him more money than any other player in NFL history has received. He was handsomely compensated for his time here and he does not owe the Colts anything either. He has earned his money thus far.

The thing people don't realize or don't seem to care about is that Mannings contract isn't for 2-3 years its for 5 more. Luck isn't sitting for 5 years and I wouldn't want him to, he probably wouldn't be sitting for 3 either. What is the difference between him leaving now or in 3 years when he has 2 year remaining and wants to keep playing? What do you do then? Trade him when his value is significantly lower? Cut him and get nothing?

Manning may and I stress may be the present but he is not the future and when Irsay has a billion dollar business to protect he does the best thing for his business, even if its crushing to us fans to see Manning either retired or in another uniform.

I've been saying this for awhile and I believe this would be the best scenario for the Colts in the long run. If they could get a top 10 pick this year for Manning, maybe from a team like KC, Washington, or Miami, then Id be in favor of it. Although I DONT want Alshon Jeffery. I would much rather have CB Morris Claiborne, Justin Blackmon, or David DeCastro.

Manning could still restructure his deal and extend his date due for the 28 million making him much easier to trade. I would rather do it now while we can get the most in return for him. And Luck can suceed early for us if we surround him with talent which we could easily do with the 2012 draft and via trading of Manning.

[mightisright]

It doesn't make the most sense, it just makes happy the people who see Rodgers instead of Luck as our draft pick.

If we are switching up defensive coaches and schemes next year, coupled with the massive amount of key free agent contracts looming, we have far greater priorities.

People are just looking at the great team Green Bay had before and after Rodgers and assuming the transition is that easy. Well, we don't have a good team (apparently), so it does us no good to rebuild our back up QB situation when that pick could be traded to make us a better all around team.

WHAT HE SAID! finally, somebody making some sense!

[FireJimCaldwell]

I've been saying this for awhile and I believe this would be the best scenario for the Colts in the long run. If they could get a top 10 pick this year for Manning, maybe from a team like KC, Washington, or Miami, then Id be in favor of it. Although I DONT want Alshon Jeffery. I would much rather have CB Morris Claiborne, Justin Blackmon, or David DeCastro.

Manning could still restructure his deal and extend his date due for the 28 million making him much easier to trade. I would rather do it now while we can get the most in return for him. And Luck can suceed early for us if we surround him with talent which we could easily do with the 2012 draft and via trading of Manning.

There is zero reason for Manning to do that. If he doesn't restructure, and if they don't pick up the option he's a free agent. I'm sure the Colts will always have a spot in his heart, but he's not going to do anything to cost his new team, say the Jets, draft picks to get his services, when they can have them for whatever they pay him.

[hoosiercoltsfan82]

I for one fully believe that Manning and Luck can be on the Colts together. However, only a short term option is really feasible. Anything more than 2 season of "Pey-Luck" would be too much.

So here is my idea of how we transition from the Peyton era to the Luck era, while simultaneously giving the "incumbents" another shot at glory, and preparing for the future.

1. Lets assume that Peyton will be healthy and strong enough to return next season.

2. The Colts secure the #1 pick.

3. Irsay, Polians, and Manning all sit down together. Each knows that Peyton's career is in its closing chapter(s), and therefore wants to give him another chance for a Superbowl, yet each also knows that they have an incredible opportunity to draft Luck, and potentially secure the QB position for another decade.

4. They agree that Peyton should restructure to a 2 year cap friendly contract. One that would allow them to resign a few of their valuable free agents vets...Saturday, Mathis, Wayne, Garcon, etc. As well as possibly a few high quality veteran free agents who would be willing to sign for low dollars in an attempt to make a Superbowl push.

5. Draft Day comes and picks are used with the future of the team in mind. This includes drafting Luck of course.

6. Then this is how I see the next two seasons playing out, particularly the Peyton and Luck scenario. Luck starts every preseason game and plays 2 full quarters each game, therefore, gaining timing and rythmn with the receivers. Peyton starts every regular season game, and plays at least 75% of all the snaps, and Luck comes in for the other 25%.

7. Then at the end of the 2 seasons the Peyton era ends with his "mutual" release from the team, and he is allowed to retire with dignity, or continue playing with another team, his choice...and the Luck era officially begins.

8. What does this mean for Colts fans? Those who don't want to see the Peyton era end have a chance to experience a proper farewell, and a last chance to see PM raise the Lombardy trophy...And those who believe its time for the Luck era to begin, have a chance to see it begin, albeit slowly.

[Jay305]

[ace_6900]

It doesn't make the most sense, it just makes happy the people who see Rodgers instead of Luck as our draft pick.

If we are switching up defensive coaches and schemes next year, coupled with the massive amount of key free agent contracts looming, we have far greater priorities.

People are just looking at the great team Green Bay had before and after Rodgers and assuming the transition is that easy. Well, we don't have a good team (apparently), so it does us no good to rebuild our back up QB situation when that pick could be traded to make us a better all around team.

my thoughts exactly keep manning or draft Luck do not have both.

[Smitto]

Smitto, It's not a defense that wins championships, just as much as it's not just the quarterback that wins championships. It takes a great TEAM to win. You can say for example, that the Ravens recently have had great defenses and a decent quarterback, but no Super Bowl victories. Same goes for the Jets and last years Niners. It's just a cliche that "defense wins Super Bowls." The Saints won because they were an offensive power house. Also, the year that the Colts won, we were an offensive team and the defense finally started playing well, making us a more complete TEAM.

In the Baltimore game in the 06 playoffs... who showed up? it was the defense and adam, just like in the cheifs game before that and in the bears game. the colts got to the superbowl because they had a defense.. the offense was practically non existent until it came to the pats game.

[Smitto]

luck is better than painter already. luck also studies the game, painter was never doing that. im not saying peyton wouldbmentir luck but he would learn how to be an nfl qb. as a backup qb you watch the starter how he prepares, how he studies, and the back up can actually point out things to the starter. a backup will watch a specific defender and relay to the starter if he is always biting on a certain play. a-rod learned a ton just by watching farve, and that is the main reason he didnt struggle much when he became the starter.

I will leave it at that.... all QB's study the game maybe not as much as the other but you cant be an NFL QB without doing that.. and to be a QB for the colts you have to be doing your studies to be able to run the no huddle and audible plays.. on that note best thing i can say is put a pinch of salt on the whole thing of peyton and luck cooperation.

[GoColts8818]

In the Baltimore game in the 06 playoffs... who showed up? it was the defense and adam, just like in the cheifs game before that and in the bears game. the colts got to the superbowl because they had a defense.. the offense was practically non existent until it came to the pats game.

It was also Manning and the offense who kept picking up key third down after key third down to keep drives alive against the NFL's number one ranked defense and making only one big mistake all day long. Make no mistake about it the offense had a lot to do with us winning that game.

[Smitto]

It was also Manning and the offense who kept picking up key third down after key third down to keep drives alive against the NFL's number one ranked defense and making only one big mistake all day long. Make no mistake about it the offense had a lot to do with us winning that game.

key third downs would have been pointless if the ravens were scoring touchdowns... seems like peyton has always felt the pressure more in the playoffs.. and it seems like the colts are planning on putting Luck in the same situation.... all the offense but no defense to back it up.

[GoColts8818]

key third downs would have been pointless if the ravens were scoring touchdowns... seems like peyton has always felt the pressure more in the playoffs.. and it seems like the colts are planning on putting Luck in the same situation.... all the offense but no defense to back it up.

I agree. I didn't say the defense had nothing to do with it, I just pointed out that Manning had something to do with it too. It's not like they carried Manning all day long and he did nothing. Manning made his fair share of big plays in that game too.

[Malakai432]

It doesn't make the most sense, it just makes happy the people who see Rodgers instead of Luck as our draft pick.

If we are switching up defensive coaches and schemes next year, coupled with the massive amount of key free agent contracts looming, we have far greater priorities.

People are just looking at the great team Green Bay had before and after Rodgers and assuming the transition is that easy. Well, we don't have a good team (apparently), so it does us no good to rebuild our back up QB situation when that pick could be traded to make us a better all around team.

We have far greater priorities but it takes young players time to develop. By the time we fill all of the holes in this team, especially if we lose Reggie and or Mathis + others, Peyton might be on his last year. Trading Luck and TRYING to fill some of the gaps on this team would take awhile. It's not like the Colts would trade Luck, get a bunch of young players, possibly lose some vets and BAM we are super bowl contenders a year after Mannings 3rd neck surgery. It just doesn't happen like that, it takes time. I do not feel confident this team will win a super bowl or even make it to one in the next 3+ years.

Hence, it takes time after player and personnel changes to become a super bowl contender. The only thing POSSIBLY making us a super bowl contender next year would only be Manning, with that said it's a long shot. I do agree with the holes that needed filled but I do agree the Colts need NOW a replacement for Manning. I would have no problem with getting RGIII or Barkley if they decide to come out and getting more picks as well, I would also be happy with Luck.

[Malakai432]

No defense does win championships. turnovers count as defense. ur saints examplebis not correct because during the regular and postseason they forced a ton if key turnovers.

There defense blew chucks besides for the fact they created turnovers and were good at stopping the run from what I recalled??? Still bottom 12 in passing and scoring. So overall they were mediocre @ best. However their total offense was #1 that year and top 10 in rushing and very high in passing, leading the lead in scoring. Offense does win championships as well we've seen that with the Packers (injured defense), Saints mediocre defense, Colts mediocre defense, Rams bad defense and other teams.

Greenbay Packers defense is below average this year but they force alot of turnovers. So maybe the modo should be, "Defenses that force alot of turnovers win championships." HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As it's said now its a QB driven league. Defenses still contribute to championships but it's just as much an overall team effort now.

[WoolMagnet]

But as we see in this league, build a great team all you want, unless you have someone behind center who can lead that team and be productive...nothing else matters. Look at chicago this year, they were rolling and probably headed to the playoffs and now no QB and no hope. Look at Philly, went out got all this talent yet their QB can't stay healthy and play and they have 4 wins. You get your QB and then build around him.

Thank god some people are thinking clearly.

If you expect Luck to be as good as everyone else, and you think he's worth the first pick, you take him. Regardless of the manning situation. If we are lucky, we get another 2 or 3 years from manning I feel.

Then what!?

What does everyone expect to get for the first pick? 2 firsts and a 3rd & 4th? The firsts are gonna be later - round. What are you gonna get? Barkley? Griffin III? 2nd rate in my book.

So you trade the opportunity to get a once in a franchise QB (for the 2nd time, consecutively no less) for 3 or 4 players who will most likely have less impact on the game? This won't be a Hirschel Walker type trade. I've even heard Luck is the highest-rated QB coming out since Elway. He's certainly touted higher than manning was. Who says Luck won't or can't be better?

I don't know if Luck will be all that. But I can't remember the last time EVERYONE that knows what they are talking about says Luck is a can't miss. Especially with the last few 1st rd picks we've had, that sounds pretty good to me.

[Smitto]

I agree. I didn't say the defense had nothing to do with it, I just pointed out that Manning had something to do with it too. It's not like they carried Manning all day long and he did nothing. Manning made his fair share of big plays in that game too.

Well that is true, if only peyton was great in the playoffs as he is in the regular season.

[dn4192]

Lucas Oil Stadium is the House that Manning Built, and it is the Los Angeles Colts at this point without him.

1. There was nothing wrong with the Dome and I don't remember Peyton contributing 1 dime to the construction of the Can, that place is there on the backs of tax payers.

2. There is zero proof to support that statement as LA has been unable to support a pro team and doesn't have an acceptable NFL stadium in place.

[BProland85]

There is zero reason for Manning to do that. If he doesn't restructure, and if they don't pick up the option he's a free agent. I'm sure the Colts will always have a spot in his heart, but he's not going to do anything to cost his new team, say the Jets, draft picks to get his services, when they can have them for whatever they pay him.

Dude hes already said if he were to leave the Colts he would want them to be compensated. He said this awhile ago and he's not the type of *who will just leave and not make the best business decision for the Colts. He kinda owes them too since he was paid 20 mil this year and didnt even play. I swear everything you say on this board is negative for the Colts. Im trying to be hopefull for what might happen, and yes it's hypothetical, but it still COULD happen. Michael Lombardi and Adam Scehfter seem to think its plausible as well and they are in the know guys.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Dude hes already said if he were to leave the Colts he would want them to be compensated. He said this awhile ago and he's not the type of *who will just leave and not make the best business decision for the Colts. He kinda owes them too since he was paid 20 mil this year and didnt even play. I swear everything you say on this board is negative for the Colts. Im trying to be hopefull for what might happen, and yes it's hypothetical, but it still COULD happen. Michael Lombardi and Adam Scehfter seem to think its plausible as well and they are in the know guys.

He has said no such thing. If so, then a direct quote would be nice to see.

There is basically a 0.0% chance of that happening. It's not being negative, it's being realistic.

[FireJimCaldwell]

1. There was nothing wrong with the Dome and I don't remember Peyton contributing 1 dime to the construction of the Can, that place is there on the backs of tax payers.

2. There is zero proof to support that statement as LA has been unable to support a pro team and doesn't have an acceptable NFL stadium in place.

Let's just put this comments in your list of comment that you fail to comprehend. Because it is quite clear that you don't.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Well that is true, if only peyton was great in the playoffs as he is in the regular season.

Tom Brady has a bigger playoff drop off than Peyton Manning does..

[oldunclemark]

The point of this thread was though..that its a done deal...

There's a guy on ESPN saying the same thing.. Its a done deal.

That Peyton WILL be resigned by Irsay. (the $28 mil will be picked up)

..and Luck WILL be the No.1 choice of the Colts...by Polian...who wants to guarantee the future..

I'm not saying this is the way I'd go..I'm not arguing for it....but 'multiple sources' now say that this is the way it is...

What then?

[WSO]

Well that is true, if only peyton was great in the playoffs as he is in the regular season.

The thing is Peyton actually has played pretty well in the playoffs. His image is tarnished by the 9-10 record and his two worst playoff games against the Patriots and Tom Brady.

His playoff QB Rating is 88.something, higher than Roethlisberger, Brady, etc. Yeah its no where near his reg season but we are comparing 19 games to over 200. Remember, this is the same guy who had a perfect QB rating in a playoff game. Only 1 other QB has ever done that. Manning has done enough on his part in the playoffs but when you are consistently playing against the best teams each year in the playoffs(well usually), you need every phase of the team to be playing well.

Defense not playing well cost us the '07, '08, and '10 playoff games. Special teams cost us the '05 game and arguably even the '10 game with the return. We saw in '06 how important it is for an entire team to play at a high level to get to the SB. Even in '09 despite the running game problems.

The Patriots are a prime example, they are good all around and Brady has been superb in the Super Bowl.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The point of this thread was though..that its a done deal...

There's a guy on ESPN saying the same thing.. Its a done deal.

That Peyton WILL be resigned by Irsay. (the $28 mil will be picked up)

..and Luck WILL be the No.1 choice of the Colts...by Polian...who wants to guarantee the future..

I'm not saying this is the way I'd go..I'm not arguing for it....but 'multiple sources' now say that this is the way it is...

What then?

But the fact is it isn't a done deal. The only way it could even close to be a done deal if Irsay put down his blackberry, got behind the podium, and said directly that we are picking up Peyton Manning's option no questions asked, and if we end up with the #1 pick, we are drafting Andrew Luck no questions asked. That hasn't and will not happen.

There is also a guy on ESPN saying that Manning has played his final down as Colt.

People have opinions on what they feel will happen, but until Manning is cleared and announced that he is good to go, nothing is completely on or off the table.

It's just too soon to know at this point and the media, whether it's PFT, PFW, ESPN, they are going to embellish it both ways just to increase discussion.

[WSO]

this is going to be the most exciting off-season in Colts history

[Rich Cannon]

I think getting Peyton back and signing luck is an opportunity that cannot be passed. I believe the team will benefit.

I agree 100 percent. College success doesnt necessarily translate into NFL suceess. The truth is Andrew Luck could be a bust or a great nfl player. But given our situation with Peyton Manning, not knowing his future IMO this is just a chance that we cannot pass up. I believe his talent will translate into our next franchise qb. I also believe that Manning can recover and still play at a high level. He has all off season to rehab and take care of this neck issue. I am fully aware we need help at virtually every other position but i believe this is an opportunity that just cannot be passed up. If Luck turns out to be everything these scouts and I think. I dont think anyone on this board will complain when Luck takes over and leaves right off after the Peyton Manning chapter is over.

[GoColts8818]

this is going to be the most exciting off-season in Colts history

or could be the saddest depending on what happens with Manning and several other long time Colts favorite players. It's not unrealistic to think that Manning, Saturday, Clark, Brackett, Wayne, and Mathis COULD all be gone at the end of the year either via free agency or being released.

[Rich Cannon]

or could be the saddest depending on what happens with Manning and several other long time Colts favorite players. It's not unrealistic to think that Manning, Saturday, Clark, Brackett, Wayne, and Mathis COULD all be gone at the end of the year either via free agency or being released.

yea this would be a very sad day indeed

[oldunclemark]

But the fact is it isn't a done deal. The only way it could even close to be a done deal if Irsay put down his blackberry, got behind the podium, and said directly that we are picking up Peyton Manning's option no questions asked, and if we end up with the #1 pick, we are drafting Andrew Luck no questions asked. That hasn't and will not happen.

There is also a guy on ESPN saying that Manning has played his final down as Colt.

People have opinions on what they feel will happen, but until Manning is cleared and announced that he is good to go, nothing is completely on or off the table.

It's just too soon to know at this point and the media, whether it's PFT, PFW, ESPN, they are going to embellish it both ways just to increase discussion.

Its a done deal by the people who will make the decisions....is the word...You can argue for or against.

But folks who have talked to the folks apparently (The fellow on ESPN was Clayton) and he said its a done deal.

The others are giving their opinion.

My question is: We have Manning and Luck. What then? Who else cane we draft?

How does it work for us.?

[04DarkShadowGT]

who says the colts don't owe peyton anything he put this team on the map so to speak, besides luck is just too darn ugly to be making all those commercials manning has made irsay a lot of money that he would not have made by putting * in those expensive seats

I said the Colts don't owe Manning anything. I was right, they don't other than his current contract. They certainly don't owe him so much that they pass up on the potential once in a generation QB. Irsay has to think past Manning, someone mentioned fan support, well what do you think is going to happen if Manning plays three years and then is done. The Colts may be in the position of the Dolphins and could be looking for its Andrew Luck for 15 years. I dont think some of the people on here get it. Its not exactly easy to find a franchise QB.

Sure there is some risk in drafting a QB in the first round, but there is also as much or more risk passing on luck and trying to rebuild an 0-16 team in one season and hope for a SB run in the next few seasons. Especially with a QB coming off three neck surgeries.

The Colts could be in a position to have almost 30 years of straight elite level QB play. That is hard to pass up on imo. Then again I am a Colts and Manning fan, not just a Manning fan.

luck's trade value should go up after two years. he will have learned qb from the goat and would have spent considerable time on learning how to read defenses.

So you want to draft Luck now, pay him roughly 10 million for two years to learn behind Manning. Then trade him when he is ready to be an NFL starter and Manning is even closer to retiring?

Like I said in another thread, I am really glad that fans dont make these decisions.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Its a done deal by the people who will make the decisions....is the word...You can argue for or against.

But folks who have talked to the folks apparently (The fellow on ESPN was Clayton) and he said its a done deal.

The others are giving their opinion.

My question is: We have Manning and Luck. What then? Who else cane we draft?

How does it work for us.?

Considering there are events that could negate the existence of the "done deal" it is impossible for it be a done deal. It might be Polian/Irsay's wishes, but it is not a done deal.

[oldunclemark]

Were the Giants a "great" team when they beat NE? Or did they just play a great game and get lucky? What about the year the Colts won it, I don't think anyone would say that overall they were a great team. They got hot in the playoffs, had a few lucky breaks go their way and won it. Great teams don't always win the SB

They played a great game and got lucky

(Sorry, Eli)

[supremecoltsfan300]

There defense blew chucks besides for the fact they created turnovers and were good at stopping the run from what I recalled??? Still bottom 12 in passing and scoring. So overall they were mediocre @ best. However their total offense was #1 that year and top 10 in rushing and very high in passing, leading the lead in scoring. Offense does win championships as well we've seen that with the Packers (injured defense), Saints mediocre defense, Colts mediocre defense, Rams bad defense and other teams.

Greenbay Packers defense is below average this year but they force alot of turnovers. So maybe the modo should be, "Defenses that force alot of turnovers win championships." HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As it's said now its a QB driven league. Defenses still contribute to championships but it's just as much an overall team effort now.

Turnovers are a part of defense.....every time a play needed to be made it was made by the saints d. yards don't matter, only points. the saints d also scored points too from int returns and fumble recoveries. This year greenbay has a d that generates a lot of turnovers and gets stops when they need to. they also score a lot on d as well. The only game where they didn't play really well was the gaints game, but even in that game they caused two huge turnovers and scored a td. In the sb, greenbay's d scored the deciding td when they returned ben's int. they also prevented a game-winning drive by ben in the 4th quarter. When espn says the pats have the worst d or the packer's d is horrible, it's just not true, but what else would you expect from espn. No game was ever won by yardage, it's won by points, turnovers, and making key stops when you have to. So yes, defense does win championships.

[Smitto]

Tom Brady has a bigger playoff drop off than Peyton Manning does..

thats not very true at all, i actually had the stats written down on here but i accidentally hit the back button and im not typing that again.