Offensive Holding/10 yard penalty

[Moose Of Woe]

Doesn't 10 yards seem a bit extreme? Why not 5 like defensive holding? Just something I've always been curious about. It really is a drive killer.

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

Its because defensive holding is 5 and a first down.
Offense is 10 since they cant take away a down

[Moose Of Woe]

Its because defensive holding is 5 and a first down.

Offense is 10 since they cant take away a down

Ya know...that actually makes sense.

 

I wish officials were more consistent with the calls on both sides of the ball given how much they impact drives. If nothing else take the automatic first on defensive holding out and make it just the 5  and bring offensive holding down to 5 as well. I've never been a fan of automatic first down penalties aside  from personal fouls.

[NewColtsFan]

Believe it or not,  not too long ago,  offensive holding was 15 yards.

 

Eventually someone finally got around to noting that 15 yard penalties for the offense are complete drive killers,  so they smartly lowered it to 10 yards.

 

I'm not sure how many years ago, but certainly in my NFL viewing lifetime which is about 45 years.    So,  perhaps 25 years ago?

 

Anyone else think they know?     Please chime in!!

[Moose Of Woe]

Believe it or not,  not too long ago,  offensive holding was 15 yards.

[oldunclemark]

You know holding used to be 15 yards, right?

[oldunclemark]

I think we need to work on the Pass interference penalty before anything else

PI can be 50 yards

[dgambill]

I think we need to work on the Pass interference penalty before anything else

PI can be 50 yards

I agree....I think it should be a 15 yrd penalty unless its a clear path penalty...like the ref decides it was to prevent a touchdown and the defense just grabs the guy or is making no attempt on the ball then it could be a spot foul.....it would require it to probably be reviewable in those cases though....kinda like a break away foul in the nba. I see far too often a team that can't move the ball get bailed out with a call like this and its kinda ticky tacky it doesn't have to be so detrimintal of a play. Not sure exactly how to do that but something along those lines.

[Yehoodi]

Doesn't 10 yards seem a bit extreme? Why not 5 like defensive holding? Just something I've always been curious about. It really is a drive killer.

 

I think also it is 10 yards as a deterrent, well most penalties are set as a deterrent and the more deterrent needed the higher the penalty . . .

 

The tricky part is that many times the holds spring a runner and he gains 5, 10, 15 yards that he would not have gained had the defender not been held and could of made a play on the ball . . . so in that respect it is good as is helps curtail a hold to create a big hole for the runner or prevent a tackler from getting to one that is running along the sidelines . . .

 

also prevent a defender from getting to a QB who may be able to complete a key pass if he has a few more second due to the hold . . .

 

for me it just comes down to better policing by the refs, if one holds a player that is away from the play perhaps they should not call it . . . sometimes they do tho . . .

[oldunclemark]

I'd like to see pass interference 'capped' at 25 yards

In other words..no PI can be more than 25 yards.

I don't think its fair for a foul to give you 40-50 yards.

What do you think?

[Moose Of Woe]

I'd like to see pass interference 'capped' at 25 yards

In other words..no PI can be more than 25 yards.

I don't think its fair for a foul to give you 40-50 yards.

What do you think?

I'd rather see PI be a set yardage of 5 and always enforced properly. Small grab? Just a little? Call it. It's too inconsistent. That goes for both offensive and defensive PI.

 

People push off all the time on offense and don't get called. On defense and grab around the waist for a split second and let go. Needs to be called always in both cases instead of when the ref deems fit it's cheating "enough" to warrant a call.

 

If they keep PI as is, it needs to be reviewable given the insane boost it can give a team if a ref screws it up by calling it falsely.

[oldunclemark]

I don't understand 'set average of 5'

[New Zealands #1 Colts Fan]

I agree....I think it should be a 15 yrd penalty unless its a clear path penalty...like the ref decides it was to prevent a touchdown and the defense just grabs the guy or is making no attempt on the ball then it could be a spot foul.....it would require it to probably be reviewable in those cases though....kinda like a break away foul in the nba. I see far too often a team that can't move the ball get bailed out with a call like this and its kinda ticky tacky it doesn't have to be so detrimintal of a play. Not sure exactly how to do that but something along those lines.

Agree 100%

 

so many times a team will just throw a hail mary hoping to  draw the penalty

[Moose Of Woe]

I don't understand 'set average of 5'

I think you misread that. I wrote set yardage. Not average.

 

As in it's always a five yard penalty. None of that spot of the foul nonsense where they can give up to a 98 yard penalty.

[jvan1973]

As in it's always a five yard penalty. None of that spot of the foul nonsense where they can give up to a 98 yard penalty.

that would be quite a throw

[ColtsBlueFL]

Believe it or not,  not too long ago,  offensive holding was 15 yards.

 

Eventually someone finally got around to noting that 15 yard penalties for the offense are complete drive killers,  so they smartly lowered it to 10 yards.

 

I'm not sure how many years ago, but certainly in my NFL viewing lifetime which is about 45 years.    So,  perhaps 25 years ago?

 

Anyone else think they know?     Please chime in!!

 

It was 1974.  The NFL opened up the whole game throughout the middle and late 1970's.  In 1974, the penalties for offensive holding, illegal use of the hands, and tripping were reduced from 15 to 10 yards.  Also, one sudden-death overtime period was added for preseason and regular-season games and the goal posts were moved from the goal line back to the end lines. All kickoffs were moved from the 40- to the 35-yard line and the spot of the ball after missed field goals from beyond 20 yards was returned to the line of scrimmage.

 

Of course, the rules in 1976, 1977, and 1978 implementing and strengthening the illegal contact rules was installed and have been discussed here ad nauseum. These changes from 1974-1978 is why any player from 1980 on cannot be directly compared to the pre 1974 player via stats alone. And why offense rules the day.  the NFL planned it, and made it happen.

[cmgww]

Agreed on PI, last night Dallas got several deep PI calls that resulted in big gains. PI should be limited to 15 yards in college, unless it's really egregious. Moreso, I want the games enforced consistently. I do think that certain teams with a reputation of playing "physical" on defense get away with more. New England, Seattle, SF are good examples. The refs need to call the obvious stuff early and set the tone. I am tired of seeing the "Legion of Boom" get away with manhandling receivers with few penalties. Then you have a game like last night (Dallas v. Philly) where laundry was everywhere! Go one way or the other, but be consistent!

[oldunclemark]

I think you misread that. I wrote set yardage. Not average.

 

As in it's always a five yard penalty. None of that spot of the foul nonsense where they can give up to a 98 yard penalty.

the problem with making it a 5-yard penalty is that defenses could simply foul on mid-range or long passes...

Yu'd tajke the deep pass out f the game because all defenses would drag the WR down

...'dg' has a good thought about a 'clear path' foul like they use in pro basketball where the penalty is exeggerrated on a play that, in the ref's mind, would have scored

[oldunclemark]

Agreed on PI, last night Dallas got several deep PI calls that resulted in big gains. PI should be limited to 15 yards in college, unless it's really egregious. Moreso, I want the games enforced consistently. I do think that certain teams with a reputation of playing "physical" on defense get away with more. New England, Seattle, SF are good examples. The refs need to call the obvious stuff early and set the tone. I am tired of seeing the "Legion of Boom" get away with manhandling receivers with few penalties. Then you have a game like last night (Dallas v. Philly) where laundry was everywhere! Go one way or the other, but be consistent!

Im, at a loss to understand that, too....

Seattle is not called for many PIs and they are more hand on than anyone...

[Moose Of Woe]

that would be quite a throw

lol yes it would. Even though Hercules doesn't play in the NFL, it's technically possible. (Throw from the endzone/1 yard line to the other endzone/1 yard line.)

 

[Moose Of Woe]

...'dg' has a good thought about a 'clear path' foul like they use in pro basketball where the penalty is exeggerrated on a play that, in the ref's mind, would have scored

Yeah... that would make sense.

[OffensivelyPC]

that would be quite a throw

Ever played tecmo bowl?  Back of the endzone to the other back of the endzone, no sweat.  Of course, they didn't throw flags in that game...

[BloodyChamp]

Offenses have it so bad. 10 yards and stuff...

[dgambill]

Im, at a loss to understand that, too....

Seattle is not called for many PIs and they are more hand on than anyone...

They get them sometimes early on in the game....but they play so physical from the onset that the refs can't help but ADAPT to how the game is being played not the other way around. So Seattle sets the tone early...the refs call some really over the top stuff and then let the smaller grabbing etc go because its nothing compared to the big stuff. Seattle does a great job of training officials to call the game the way they want. If you set the tone early I think its just like basketball...you may get a few hand checks here or there but they really start allowing a lot of banging....I feel its the same in the NFL. IMO...I would want my team to play physical right out the gate...a lot of bump and run etc like New England, Seattle, Denver, St. Louis etc they get after you at the line and right from the start....and if the refs decide to let it be played that way your team needs to match the intensity or your going to get manhandled. I say be aggressive...you can always back off if they start tossing laundry...most of the time they let a lot more go if you've been playing hard from the start.

[oldunclemark]

And you also risk the 5-yard hand checks and not the 50-yard game-killers.

You do need guys who can run with the faster recievers