Skip Bayless And Stephen A Smith Debate Archie's Comments About Luck And Manning

[Jason_]

This transcript didn't come from online....I typed it myself while watching (and rewinding multiple times) the broadcast so it's as accurate as I could make it...Skip and Stephen did talk over each other several times so it was kind of hard to get every word said by each one. However that said, here was their debate:

SB: I agree with Archie's comments and I'm gonna go a step further. This was a preemptive strike because he can speak for Peyton publicially the way Peyton can't speak for Peyton publically. And now we're gonna have to agree Stephen A, we're going to have to assume that Peyton Manning can, with his neck injury and coming back from surgery, take the beating over the next 3 years that I believe he can take. ok?

SS: Ok

SB: Now he's 35 now and I think he can play, franchise QB level...Peyton level for the next 3 years. So I can see where Andrew Luck and Peyton would be a very uncomfortable, uneasy fit. Because we all know and we agree, even though I have some problems with Andrew Luck being the first QB pick, I think he's by far the most ready to play in the NFL because he's Peyton right now in college football. He runs his own offense. And I think it's extremely significant that Archie knows Oliver Luck, the father, because Oliver played QB in the NFL played with Archie, and he's (Archie) got inside track on the fact that the Luck family wouldn't like this any more than the Manning family would like it. (Smith nods his head and agrees throughout these comments)

SS: Well see, here's the point, you're not necessarily wrong with what you're saying, miracles do happen, but what I will tell you is...is that who cares about their feelings. The fact of the matter is...nobody could have predicted that Peyton Manning was going to miss this season. Nobody could have predicted that this neck injury would've taken this long to heal. Nobody could have predicted...can predict, the future health of Peyton Manning. Absolutely Archie Manning, if any father is qualified to speak on what his son would want and what he thinks is best for his son as it pertains to the national football league, it's Archie Manning so I have no problem with it from that standpoint. But at the same time, what he's saying is, "I'm friends with the Luck family. I know Andrew Luck a little bit. Andrew Luck knows us. He knows the Peyton family and we understand because he can walk in right now and contribute as a starter on the NFL level he would have to wait if he's behind my son." So it's nothing wrong with Archie Manning saying that. But the point is, if you're the Colts, who cares. What you want is a situation where you've got some kind of insurance policy because if Peyton Manning has shown you nothing else, he has shown you that 3 years might be pushing it. We don't know..this is a neck injury, and it's football, it's the NFL, it's not basketball, it's not baseball, it's football. One hit could end it and look how they went, they went from superbowl contender to nothing...winless...simply because of the absence of Peyton Manning. You can't be worried about people's feelings. This is business. Get Andrew Luck, get your insurance policy and tell him to sit his butt down.

SB: Woah woah woah woah hold on..time out...just a second. What if the Luck family tells the Indianapolis Colts...we ain't comin. If you're gonna stick with Peyton we're gonna force a trade the way the Manning family once forced a trade with Eli.

SS: Ok that's different. No no no no...no no no...I don't have a problem with that. But what I'm saying to you is that if Andrew Luck and his father were to come out and say such a thing....cool. But Peyton Manning and Archie Manning taking that position, when he's already been in the NFL for a decade, I'm not gonna be worried about his feelings when he's sitting out and can't even play right now. That's all I'm saying. You have to think about the future if you're the Colts. Now if Andrew Luck tells you he doesn't want to come then that's a different ball game because you don't want a star quarterback there that doesn't want to be a part of your franchise.

SB: The point is, this isn't Aaron Rodgers we're dealing with here. Andrew Luck is ready to play as a rookie....certainly as a second year player. Aaron Rodgers, who went 24th and fell to 24...

SS: There you go being disrespectful to Aaron Rodgers this early in the morning (it wasn't easy getting everything they said when they kept interrupting to tease each other lol)

SB: Well I'm just telling you, they had to completely rebuild his delivery in Green Bay. He needed to sit for 3 years behind Brett Favre. It was the greatest thing that ever happened to THAT QB. To this QB it could be the worst thing that ever happened.

SS: Alright but I'm just saying, first of all pay homage and be respectful to Aaron Rodgers. We are going to make sure that you do that moving forward. I will take up for Aaron Rodgers at every second. Watch your tongue when you speak about Aaron Rodgers.

SB: Well wait a second...was Aaron Rodgers...my point was, was he ready to play when he was a rookie at GB?

SS: Well..you know..you know what...we don't really know...we don't really know because his...his

SB: I know...I can tell you

SS: His progress was being impeded by Brett Favrah (he specifically pronounced it this way lol)

SB: No it was not.

SS: That's what it was

SB: He wasn't ready. Mel Kiper's had a whole piece on ESPN saying, they had to rebuild his footwork and his delivery.

SS: That's a low blow. That's a low blow. You don't bring up Mel...

SB: I"m just telling you the truth

SS: don't bring up Mel Kiper to me...I can't debate Mel Kiper

SB: you know what, Aaron Rodgers should drop to his knees every night and thank god for Brett Favre.

SS: You just think....weak (didn't catch the whole line). Let's go. Let's move forward. He's trying to aggravate me early. And that's ok though. That's ok.

Jay: Skip, to the piont of the insurance policy..what if they don't take Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning never hits the field. That's a possibility.

SB: What if he does hit the field?

Jay: But what if he doesn't. If you're the Indianapolis Colts who have to prepare for the worst case scenario and they're worst case scenario is Peyton never plays again.

SB: As I said Jay, I disqualified Stephen A and I's argument out of the box because we don't know. I don't know...is he 100%, is he 90, is he 80...is the doctor saying "hey this is really iffy next year" or can he..will he be better than he was before...he might even be stronger with his neck than he was.

SS: Yeah but.....but Skip, but see that's my point. Any time you've got those kind of question marks, on the national football league level, the operative word and the operative phrase is insurance policy. Everyone in the NFL is looking for one. Excuse me if Andrew Luck is what all the college officionados say, how do you ignore that if you're the Indianapolis Colts. If you're sitting there and you're saying...few weeks ago...well just lose the rest of the games and get into the Luck sweepstakes. If you're looking at Miami and saying Sporano and you're 0-7, "don't bother winning football games. Go ahead...go winless cause you're gonna get Andrew Luck. That's what you should be after." How are we all of a sudden look at the Indianapolis Colts and say "because Peyton Manning may be ready to come back next year and he's got 2 or 3 years left that you shouldn't pick Andrew Luck. You should pick somebody else." Excuse me. You want that trend to continue. You saw how valuable a big time QB is. Peyton Manning is right there to prove it to you. How do you ignore it if you think that Andrew Luck can bring you the same success.

SB: Ok I've got one great solution for this whole problem. Take Robert Griffin III. How about that? there you go.

SS: Hey hey listen, listen.

SB: He might be more patient to sit for a year or 2

SS: Skip, I actually agree with that. Listen, if you wanna take RG3 I'm saying OK because he clearly would be patient enough to sit back and wait as opposed to Andrew Luck in all probability. And you know what I'm sayin Ok that's fine. But if Andrew Luck is head and shoulders above everybody else, like we've heard for so many weeks, not you, but other folks...college football analysts....

SB: Oh you mean people who really know? Is that what you're saying?

SS: I wasn't gonna go there but since you brought it up...

SB: Since I started the bandwagon rolling on that one

Jay: I dont' think you started...

SB: I did too.

Jay: Skip, Christian Fauria was here every week and he was singing his praises and you were dismissive

SB: Who went to "I'll take RG3 over Luck"? Who was the first one to venture on to that limb?

SS: You..you..I will defend you on that one you are absolutely right.

there was a little more to the conversation but it was just about when Skip decided he'd take RG3 over Luck.

The interesting part imo was that they both agreed that the Luck family could put the squeeze on the Colts and force a trade...something some people have been saying can't happen. No one is saying it will happen but these guys both agree that it's definitely a possibility.

I realize this has zero relevance as to what the Mannings, Lucks or Colts might be thinking...it's simply Skip and Stephen A's opinions.

[Jason_]

Ok later in the same show, Stephen A, Kordell Stewart and Skip discuss what they think the Colts should do. I wasn't going to transcribe this one but it was shorter and not as much of each one trying to talk over the other so:

Jay: Kordell we'll start with you. What do you do if you're Bill Polian and you're looking for the best interest of your team?

KS: Well one, I would keep Peyton Manning, of course it wouldn't even be a conversation piece to get rid of him because everything they've built on this football team was built around Peyton Manning with the quick capabilities of scoring on offense, they have that same mindset on defense...guys that are quick, fast, real light guys. If you were to get rid of someone like Peyton Manning and bring Andrew Luck in, trade (Manning) or whatever the case may be, I think you put this kid in a position where he will be handicapped because that's something, that's a burden that he's....

Jay: Filling Manning's shoes?

KS: Yeah filling his shoes, that's a burden he's going to have to carry for a very long time considering how this team is built because he's so young. Look at the situation with Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre. I know we may have talked about it earlier but I think that's a wonderful situation for a QB to be in. To be behind not just an iconic QB but someone who's been there and done that...and who has credibility beyond conversation...future HOF'ers as a matter of fact.

Jay: He could learn from watching Peyton Manning

KS: Yeah he could learn from watchingManning

SB: Nobody expected Aaron Rodgers to start the first year right? He fell on draft day. There's some talk about going #1

Jay: Well there was Alex Smith or Aaron Rodgers

SB: And he fell all the way to 24

Jay: We've seen Qbs of lesser ability start right away.

KS:Start right away

Jay:He wasn't going to start right away in GB of course cause they had Brett Favre

SB: But there was no ground swell in GB for Aaron Rodgers to start right the first year.

Jay: Absolutely not

KS: No no

SB: And in this case, this would be different...

Jay: Really?

SB: ...with Andrew Luck. I mean if there's any issue with Peyton's neck, some people...

KS: Well as time progress but I think that's where the draft kicks in to try to help some of those issues. But I think as a security blanket moving forward towards your future, that's where Andrew Luck comes in and I think it gives this family...

Jay: So you would draft him?

KS: Yeah, why not? Because you give a kid that's a good kid, he's smart, Stanford grad, he's a smart young man, he's playing the game very very well..2 consecutive years...could have left last year but stayed an extra year and I mean why not? He's the top candidate for the Heisman Trophy.

SB: Ok but what if Oliver Luck, the father who played in the NFL, played with Archie, tells you "Bill Polian...sorry, we won't have any of this. We will not sit still for this. We won't sign with you if you draft us.

KS: We don't know if that luck will strike twice based on how Archie did it with Eli...

SB: That's what I'm sayin

KS: ...changing it from San Diego and going to the Giants. We don't know for sure if that will happen again. But based on what we know right now and what we see from a strategic standpoint, I think long-term this would be a great situation for Andrew Luck to be in learning behind Peyton Manning regardless of if he plays or not. Even if he doesn't play, he still will have that someone there, a viable entity in understanding the game and how to go about the game from one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game

SB: Ok let's get my friend Stephen A in here

SS: Well let me chime in there, I will tell you this. We talked about the subject earlier but from the perspective of Andrew Luck, I wouldn't want to go to Indy because to me it's a no win situation for him. If he goes there, ok you'll either have to sit out and wait until Peyton Manning basically retires. Or if you're thrusted into that position, well you're going to be measured against one of the greatest QB's in NFL history. That's Peyton's franchise, that's Peyton's town. Ok, so you're never going to be all that you can be succeeding Peyton Manning in Indianapolis, that is coupled on top of what Archie Manning just said. Now if I'm the Colts, I take Andrew Luck anyway if the scouts are correct, if the college football aficionados are correct when they talk about how head and shoulders, he's the best QB in the game. I don't know that, I haven't seen him enough. I've seen him a few times. I was at the game with Stanford and USC earlier. I've seen RG3. I agree with Skip Bayless, the boy's (RG3) a stud. So there's a lot of things to consider. But if you're Andrew Luck, I will acknowledge that may not be the best situation for you because if you're looking at Cam Newton and Andy Dalton and Tim Tebow and guys like that, you know you that you can produce on the next level. But even if you do it and you're succeeding Peyton Manning, I mean how much better can you be?

SB: Ok here's the point. Bottom line. If I'm Colts Management and my doctors are telling me that Peyton Manning, at 35, will be 100% with his neck next year, maybe even 110% because often times when you get these things repaired, they're stronger than they were before. If I know that, if I can bet on that I think I can get 3 more "Peyton years" out of Peyton Manning.

SS: Ok, I agree with that

SB: So I'm just gonna say, hey, if the Luck family says we won't play that game, we won't sit still for this...

SS: Oh I'm not takin him (Luck)

SB: I'm good...I'm good. I'm going with Peyton. I don't need Andrew Luck.

SS: Right, I wouldn't take him (Luck). I would not take him if he says "I do not want to come" but it would take that in order for me not to pick him is what I'm tryin to say if I'm the Colts, it would take that. Whereas if I'm Andrew Luck, I shouldn't want to go there (Colts). I'd want to go somewhere where I don't have that concern. That's all I'm sayin.

Jay: Where are you on that Skip? What if he (Luck) doesn't come out and say....and says "look I'm not gonna go to Indianapolis"? Would you take him then?

SB: I'm listenin to what Archie Manning just said because he's locked in, plugged in, with the Luck family because he and Oliver know each other. He says in that soundbite, "Oliver and I talked last night" so I think he knows what he speaks of here that the Luck family will not stand for this which is why, and I'll say it again and I know Stephen A is on board with this, I would then go to plan B, RG3, I would take Robert Griffin III because I believe he would be a little more open to being a little more patient behind Peyton. I think that would be a great fit for the Colts going forward.

SS: I agree

SB: Because Andrew Luck wants to play next year....God bless him.

SS: I agree. There's nothing to dispute there.

[Danish Colt]

Great write-up Jason! Thanks a lot. After reading your posts I found the clip (the first part of it anyways), if people are interested. It's to be found at http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7327351/archie-manning-new-take-peyton-manning-andrew-luck-co-exist-indianapolis-colts

[doogansquest]

I can't believe I agree with those yahoos....but I actually agree with those yahoos.

If there's any way we could trade the pick, sit RGIII behind Manning, and also land some other gems with the acquisitions.

I feel as though Robert has more upside than Andrew. He's a little raw, but no one, other than Manning, would be starting next year anyway.

[super8todd]

Archie Manning regressed his comment today and said he was sorry for starting an uproar. Then said that he thinks Peyton and Luck can coexist on the same team.. its just that he had such confidence in Luck and that he was so good that he could be starting right away was what he was meant to be saying.

To the comment above. They showed a comparison of stats of Luck and RG3 on an earlier Espn show today... and of course RG3 had some better stats than Luck and they were saying he deserved the Heisman vote over Luck.. but then went on to explain that RG3 had trouble throwing the long ball, and that Luck was consistent in the Long ball throw and therefore was better suited for success in the NFL. And also that Luck made his own play-call audibles like Peyton Manning on Offense, so there was no comparison. RG3 was then said to be the #3 QB choice in the NFL draft.

[fvantagio]

Archie Manning regressed his comment today and said he was sorry for starting an uproar. Then said that he thinks Peyton and Luck can coexist on the same team.. its just that he had such confidence in Luck and that he was so good that he could be starting right away was what he was meant to be saying.

To the comment above. They showed a comparison of stats of Luck and RG3 on an earlier Espn show today... and of course RG3 had some better stats than Luck and they were saying he deserved the Heisman vote over Luck.. but then went on to explain that RG3 had trouble throwing the long ball, and that Luck was consistent in the Long ball throw and therefore was better suited for success in the NFL. And also that Luck made his own play-call audibles like Peyton Manning on Offense, so there was no comparison. RG3 was then said to be the #3 QB choice in the NFL draft.

RG3 trouble throwing the long ball? Baylor has sprinters for wrs and the reason they are so good on offense is because RG3 hits them in stride consistently. I know you like Luck but at least watch the other Qbs to make your call. RG3 dropped many passes right in the basket this year. Griffin's improvement from year to year is impressive by itself. He went from a sprinter 3 years ago to a Heisman QB beating some of the best teams in the country. Plus he is a smart kid who is willing to work and study to improve his game like Luck. And his athletic ability is through the roof. He also could use a couple of years to be completely ready. hmmm...Its almost like...like Luck isnt the only QB in the draft now isnt it? weird.

[super8todd]

RG3 trouble throwing the long ball? Baylor has sprinters for wrs and the reason they are so good on offense is because RG3 hits them in stride consistently. I know you like Luck but at least watch the other Qbs to make your call. RG3 dropped many passes right in the basket this year. Griffin's improvement from year to year is impressive by itself. He went from a sprinter 3 years ago to a Heisman QB beating some of the best teams in the country. Plus he is a smart kid who is willing to work and study to improve his game like Luck. And his athletic ability is through the roof. He also could use a couple of years to be completely ready. hmmm...Its almost like...like Luck isnt the only QB in the draft now isnt it? weird.

Don't take it personally, it is not what i said... its just what i heard on the radio program from professionals that watch these games too. No one is denying that RG3 is talented.. its just that when exactly did the formula for a talented athletic black scrambling QB ever work in the nfl? Wasn't Vince Young supposed to revolutionize the scrambling qb theory. The best case for it currently is Michael Vick or (white)Tim Tebow, and still despite their success everyone expects that that formula to not work once defenses continually adjust. I still wouldn't take RG3 or a Cam Newton, if given the choice over the potential of Luck. Because Luck can make his own audibles he is closer to what Peyton Manning has been able to accomplish in the NFL, which is by far better than the inconsistency of Scrambling athletic passers.

[fvantagio]

Don't take it personally, it is not what i said... its just what i heard on the radio program from professionals that watch these games too. No one is denying that RG3 is talented.. its just that when exactly did the formula for a talented athletic black scrambling QB ever work in the nfl? Wasn't Vince Young supposed to revolutionize the scrambling qb theory. The best case for it currently is Michael Vick or (white)Tim Tebow, and still despite their success everyone expects that that formula to not work once defenses continually adjust. I still wouldn't take RG3 or a Cam Newton, if given the choice over the potential of Luck. Because Luck can make his own audibles he is closer to what Peyton Manning has been able to accomplish in the NFL, which is by far better than the inconsistency of Scrambling athletic passers.

and you just proved that you have not watched Rg3 play. The difference between him and the Vince youngs, mike vicks, Troy smiths etc.. is the fact that he is a true pocket passer. He can make ever throw, read the D, has a cannon and great accuracy. each year his run yards go down because he becomes a more complete QB. He is throw first run 2nd, and when he runs can be just as dangerous as when he passes. Remember Mike Vick from last year? yea well THATS the potential this guy has. The ability of Luck to call plays in college doesnt help much if he wont play for 3 years. It helps if he wants to play week 1 but in 3 years RG3 or any other talented QB, especially watching Manning's preparation habits could be at that level. All im asking is to look at the other talent in this draft and next before we gamble on the first overall pick.

[Balzer40]

I bet there wasn't 5 people on this forum that even knew who RG3 was before this season. Of course people won't admit it, but the guy is the flavor of the month and people are completely reactionary when a guy has a really good season. I have seen every reason people can come up with for not drafting Luck(Most of which are completely stupid and unfounded), but 1 of the big reasons was because Luck didn't face top competition in college, but then those same people push for RG3 who probably hasn't played 5 tough opponents in his career.

[GrizzColt]

QB's who can run and/or scramble, usually don't win the Super Bowl. Steve Young is the only one I know of and his team was absolutely loaded on offense and defense. RGIII is having to learn NOT to run because he is so athletic. The great QBs never have that problem. From high school on, they have had to depend on the skills that really matter in the NFL. What I'm saying is that being an athletic QB seems to be somewhat of a detriment. That being said, I kind of would like to draft RGIII and find out. He is an exciting dude.

[GrizzColt]

Here is another thought I haven't heard anyone mention. Yes, we know that Luck and Manning know each other from Manning's QB camp. In fact, Manning probably has as much insight on the QB's on this year's draft board as anyone. He has seen and tutored most of these young men and he knows who the most talented ones are. If his neck didn't get better and his career were finished, he would be the best person to recommend which QB we should draft....especially if we're going to run this same system. However, as of now, it looks like a competitive situation, so that won't happen.

[Mameluc]

big ben has 2 rings and he is like a half pocket passer half scrambler... i think what fvantagio tried to say is that he has improved as a pocket passer and that he doesnt go run first, he tries to play like a pocket qb and if there is nothing there or needs to scramble then he does.

[JoKeR]

Colts are gonna get a BAMF Qb next year no matter what happens. Go Colts.

[oldunclemark]

I can't believe I agree with those yahoos....but I actually agree with those yahoos.

If there's any way we could trade the pick, sit RGIII behind Manning, and also land some other gems with the acquisitions.

I feel as though Robert has more upside than Andrew. He's a little raw, but no one, other than Manning, would be starting next year anyway.

He's too small doogan..

Look at what's happening the Micheal Vick...

[oldunclemark]

big ben has 2 rings and he is like a half pocket passer half scrambler... i think what fvantagio tried to say is that he has improved as a pocket passer and that he doesnt go run first, he tries to play like a pocket qb and if there is nothing there or needs to scramble then he does.

Rothlisberger isnt a scambler...he just moves in the pocket..He's not going anywhere...

He's like Manning and Marino except that they didnt wait until they got hit to throw the ball.

No running QB has ever won the SB...

[hockey878]

and robert griffin isnt a running QB.... I dont understand why this is a debate right now. Can he run? yes. so can aaron rodgers. That doesnt make him a running quarterback though