New England (- 3 1/2) @ San Diego (12-7-14)

[Shane Bond]

The Patriots spanked Denver... they don't exactly strike fear into the hearts of the Patriots or their fans..

Sure, they're a good team that can obviously win on any Sunday, but I saw what they are, ive watched almost every game of theirs this year and I think the Patriots are a substantially better team from top to bottom, starting at the QB position.

Assuming all stays the same in the injury department, I think the Patriots could march into Mile High and punch them in the mouth again, repeatedly...

Bold statements there. Heard the same last year after regular season game.

[amfootball]

You are not understanding my point. Denver just cannot afford to lose.

Only way Denver loses and gets no 1 seed is Pats losing several games. It is not really happening. Only game I think they can lose is at SD.

I understand you but am trying to figure out if you root for the Colts and Denver equally? The Colts have a real shot at the bye if either NE or Denver slips up these next four games and both teams have tough schedules, tougher than the Colts. You *should* be voting for both teams to lose to help *your* team unless you would rather see Denver have the home field advantage.

[amfootball]

Julian Edelman (77-742 yards)

Brandon Lafell (53-712 yards) and Gronkowski (65-910 yards)

with 4 games left....they all make it

But how do the pats match up with SD's receivers Keenan Allen, Malcolm Floyd and Antonio Gates..

that's the key to this day.....Rivers doesn't miss many and he gets the ball away too fast to get sacked most days

....

They match up well and better than they did vs GB certainly. I have no idea how Bill will play it as he has been mixing and matching all year and he switches during the game as well. I am more concerned about SDs run game as Lacy did run a bit on the Pats because they were so pass heavy in their personnel.

 

I have to think the Pats offense can really put up some points on this team. They are not a great defensive team and have won many games with Rivers mounting a come back at the end. My hope is that the Pats jump out fast and pull away early like they did vs Detroit.

[Shane Bond]

I understand you but am trying to figure out if you root for the Colts and Denver equally? The Colts have a real shot at the bye if either NE or Denver slips up these next four games and both teams have tough schedules, tougher than the Colts. You *should* be voting for both teams to lose to help *your* team unless you would rather see Denver have the home field advantage.

Lol really

I just explained this like 4 times.

To me Colts getting no 1 is not important, NE shouldn't.

[amfootball]

Lol really

I just explained this like 4 times.

To me Colts getting no 1 is not important, NE shouldn't.

I gotcha now. Your hatred of NE supersedes your Colts fandom. Again, I don't get it as I am always voting for my team no matter what but if that is how you feel so be it.

[Shane Bond]

I gotcha now. Your hatred of NE supersedes your Colts fandom. Again, I don't get it as I am always voting for my team no matter what but if that is how you feel so be it.

It's not hatred, it's a tough place to play Foxboro

[amfootball]

It's not hatred, it's a tough place to play Foxboro

Sure but so would be Denver where the Colts already lost this year. And in the end you want it in Indy anyways, right?

[Shane Bond]

Sure but so would be Denver where the Colts already lost this year. And in the end you want it in Indy anyways, right?

Colts going to Denver is better than NE.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

..and San Diego (7-4) can back door into the top spot if they sweep NE and Denver in the next 2 weeks and the Bengals (8-3-1), Broncos and Colts (8-4) lose one more..

NE is 6-0 at home and 3-3 on the road.

Rob Gronkowski needs 90 yards to reach 1,000 for the season..Pats have 3 receivers who could reach 1,000

NE averages 380 yards a game.

PHillip Rivers (34 of 45 last week for 383)has 25 TDs and 10 interceptions but SD has rushed for only 1,048 yards in 12 games.

This stat does not sound believable but Philip Rivers is 30-6 in the month of Decemeber.

 

By the way Uncle, San Diego is actually 8-4, not 7-4.  One game behind Denver.  Home record this year is 5-1.  

 

First time in a long time we control our destiny, let's see what we can do about it.

[oldunclemark]

I think Revis will most likely be on Keenan Allen with Browner on Floyd/Gates.  I think they'll move Revis around sometimes off Allen and roll McCourty over the top. 

 

The secondary of the Patriots is one of their biggest strengths (its been so long since i could say that) and the Chargers weapons are legit, but the Pats are fully capable of dealing with them.  The real question is what kind of pass rush will they be able to generate against Rivers to play into the secondary's strengths

Browner is the key guy..the corner who can handle TEs...

[oldunclemark]

By the way Uncle, San Diego is actually 8-4, not 7-4.  One game behind Denver.  Home record this year is 5-1.  

 

First time in a long time we control our destiny, let's see what we can do about it.

True..that's what I meant because the Chargers can get the No.1 seed if they win their final 4....

..and Indy goes 3-1 the rest of the way...Denver loses to Cincy and Cincy loses one of 2 to Pittsburgh

[crazycolt1]

The Patriots spanked Denver...  they don't exactly strike fear into the hearts of the Patriots or their fans..

 

Sure, they're a good team that can obviously win on any Sunday, but I saw what they are, ive watched almost every game of theirs this year and I think the Patriots are a substantially better team from top to bottom, starting at the QB position.

 

Assuming all stays the same in the injury department, I think the Patriots could march into Mile High and punch them in the mouth again, repeatedly...

You can argue and or debate all you care to but Brady is not better than Manning. The numbers don't show it. Manning is #3 and Brady is #8 in the league. Link- ESPN

[JerodMayo51]

You can argue and or debate all you care to but Brady is not better than Manning. The numbers don't show it. Manning is #3 and Brady is #8 in the league. Link- ESPN

 

You can have that opinion if you want, but I wouldn't swap QBs if I had a magic wand that allowed me to.   

[crazycolt1]

You can have that opinion if you want, but I wouldn't swap QBs if I had a magic wand that allowed me to.   

It's not my opinion. It is in the numbers. You have the right to like any QB of your choice but it don't automatically make them the best.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

It's not my opinion. It is in the numbers. You have the right to like any QB of your choice but it don't automatically make them the best.

The "best" is always subjective... numbers are important, but so is temperament, will to win, the way he relates to his team mates, work habits, the ability to lead etc. etc. etc.  The top 5 QBs will go up and down in ranking year by year because of one simple fact: the qb needs 45 other team members on game day.

 

Does the guy with the highest stats = the best or the guy that has led his team to the most Super Bowl wins?  Or perhaps the guy that gets the most out of the rest of the team and raises the level of everyone around him?  Arguing about who is the "best" is futile.  If you had 100 experts in the room, you would have 100 different opinions on who the "best" is and why. 

[crazycolt1]

The "best" is always subjective... numbers are important, but so is temperament, will to win, the way he relates to his team mates, work habits, the ability to lead etc. etc. etc.  The top 5 QBs will go up and down in ranking year by year because of one simple fact: the qb needs 45 other team members on game day.

 

Does the guy with the highest stats = the best or the guy that has led his team to the most Super Bowl wins?  Or perhaps the guy that gets the most out of the rest of the team and raises the level of everyone around him?  Arguing about who is the "best" is futile.  If you had 100 experts in the room, you would have 100 different opinions on who the "best" is and why. 

Very true. It does not do any good to say who is the best QB or any other player for that matter. We all have our favorites but that is only opinion. This back and forth about who is better is exactly like you say. Subjective at best. Just last week Ryan Fitzpatrick threw for 6 TDs and 358 yards with no picks. Does that make him the best? No. Just on that day. As always the QB gets the glory or the blame. Way too many seem to forget that football is a team sport. There have been super bowl winning QBs who were not considered all that good but have a ring never the less. Then there is a QB like Marino? Kind of self explanatory.

[MJD42]

You can argue and or debate all you care to but Brady is not better than Manning. The numbers don't show it. Manning is #3 and Brady is #8 in the league. Link- ESPN

So Denver's focus to run the ball now is not based on Manning's poor play in recent weeks?

[Shane Bond]

So Denver's focus to run the ball now is not based on Manning's poor play in recent weeks?

Running the football gives them the best chance to win during playoffs. It's not like they didn't try to run before. It wasn't working. Have you seen Ball and Hillman run compared to CJA?.

Manning threw 4 TDs against Miami. That is not poor play and and they ran for over 200 yards.

[ViriLudant]

You can argue and or debate all you care to but Brady is not better than Manning. The numbers don't show it. Manning is #3 and Brady is #8 in the league. Link- ESPN

The problem with your argument is that you're also saying that the two QBs have identical offenses. I guarantee that if you gave Brady Peyton's WRs, Brady would have better stats .

See '07 as a comparison.

[Blue Horseshoe]

The problem with your argument is that you're also saying that the two QBs have identical offenses. I guarantee that if you gave Brady Peyton's WRs, Brady would have better stats .

See '07 as a comparison.

 

Manning 13 and Manning 04 were better than Brady 07

 

But this "Poor Brady never has any receivers" is just nonsense.  He plays for the best coach and most stable franchise in the league.  If they thought he was the reason they win ball games they could get him any set of receivers he asked for.  The fact that they choose not to do so tells me that they think other areas are more important to their success than the passing game. 

[TAPLOOK]

I gotcha now. Your hatred of NE supersedes your Colts fandom. Again, I don't get it as I am always voting for my team no matter what but if that is how you feel so be it.

It's the defeated attitude he has been conditioned for and is accoustomed to. Such is the life of a Colts fan. What he is saying is he's throwing up the white flag.

[TAPLOOK]

Manning 13 and Manning 04 were better than Brady 07

But this "Poor Brady never has any receivers" is just nonsense. He plays for the best coach and most stable franchise in the league. If they thought he was the reason they win ball games they could get him any set of receivers he asked for. The fact that they choose not to do so tells me that they think other areas are more important to their success than the passing game.

You just agreed with him. I actually like your post. BB has a value system and like you I don't think WR's are at the top. He has TB and that is the major reason. Without question PM has had better support at WR throughout his career. It is not even debatable. .

[JerodMayo51]

It's not my opinion. It is in the numbers. You have the right to like any QB of your choice but it don't automatically make them the best.

 

lol, having some higher numbers on the stat sheet doesn't automatically make you the best either...  You think Manning would have had all those numbers last year with Julian Edelman, 3 rookie WRs and no-name tight ends?

 

Of course he wouldn't, so you can put your tunnel vision goggles on and oooohh and awww over his stats and act like its all 100% because of him if you want, but that's obviously not the case for anyone that actually understands even a little bit about the game of football.

 

People here like to preach about how wins are a "Team" accomplishment and act like stats are an individual accomplish, and its just laughable..  You're the sum of all your parts.. and Manning has had more weapons than ANY QB in this league for the majority of his career.

[JerodMayo51]

The "best" is always subjective... numbers are important, but so is temperament, will to win, the way he relates to his team mates, work habits, the ability to lead etc. etc. etc.  The top 5 QBs will go up and down in ranking year by year because of one simple fact: the qb needs 45 other team members on game day.

 

Does the guy with the highest stats = the best or the guy that has led his team to the most Super Bowl wins?  Or perhaps the guy that gets the most out of the rest of the team and raises the level of everyone around him?  Arguing about who is the "best" is futile.  If you had 100 experts in the room, you would have 100 different opinions on who the "best" is and why. 

 

 

Great post

 

Everything is a result of the team that you're on and the players you have around you.  Manning wouldn't be sniffing close to even 30 TDs if he had a bunch of 3rd string WRs and no studs, but around here its 100% good ole Peyton Manning.. hes playing with a bunch of talentless clowns in their eyes and just WILLS them to All-Pro performances <obvious sarcasm>

[JerodMayo51]

Running the football gives them the best chance to win during playoffs.

 

So taking the ball out of Manning's hands and relying more on the OTHER players around him increases their chances of winning in the playoffs..

 

Interesting...

 

 

[JerodMayo51]

Manning 13 and Manning 04 were better than Brady 07

 

 

ok buddy, whatever you say

 

But this "Poor Brady never has any receivers" is just nonsense.  He plays for the best coach and most stable franchise in the league.

 

lol...

 

stability?  You honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about, seriously...

 

Last year, he lost 6 of his 7 top receivers from the previous year...  Take a minute and read that sentence again to yourself.... SIX OUT OF SEVEN OF HIS TOP WEAPONS, GONE!

 

Stability... lol...

 

He still had a top 10 offense and the only weapon he had on the team was Julian Edelman...  Aaron Dobson was a rookie and hasn't been able to crack the lineup this year, Kenbrall Thompkins was a rookie and was cut from the team and signed by the Raiders I believe and Joshua Boyce was a rookie who I don't even think is in the league anymore...  oh and can't forget they had Hoomanowanui, a 3rd string blocking tight end...

 

those were some serious weapons!!!  talk about STABILITY with all that turnover and no-name talent they surrounded him with!  Oh and he only managed to get them to the AFC Championship Game and lead the league in comeback wins with that cast of misfits..   What a talentless QB they have over there in NE!

 

 

 

If they thought he was the reason they win ball games they could get him any set of receivers he asked for.  The fact that they choose not to do so tells me that they think other areas are more important to their success than the passing game.

 

It tells YOU that, because YOU see things from an insanely bias perspective with a genuine disdain for Brady and will try to discredit him at every single turn.

 

The reason they don't have to smother him in offensive talent is because he is so good... They can throw anyone out there and Brady will make it work and compete for Super Bowls with them..thats his curse, because hes so talented the front office takes advantage of him and asks him to do more with less constantly...

 

Manning is the total opposite.. front offices have invested incredible amounts of assets and resources into his skill positions and offensive line his entire career.  There was only 1-2 years where he didn't have an insane group of talent from top to bottom, but he still had REGGIE WAYNE who is a Hall of Fame wide receiver..

[Shane Bond]

So taking the ball out of Manning's hands and relying more on the OTHER players around him increases their chances of winning in the playoffs..

 

Interesting...

Anything wrong with it?.

[Shane Bond]

ok buddy, whatever you say

 

 

lol...

 

stability?  You honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about, seriously...

 

Last year, he lost 6 of his 7 top receivers from the previous year...  Take a minute and read that sentence again to yourself.... SIX OUT OF SEVEN OF HIS TOP WEAPONS, GONE!

 

Stability... lol...

 

He still had a top 10 offense and the only weapon he had on the team was Julian Edelman...  Aaron Dobson was a rookie and hasn't been able to crack the lineup this year, Kenbrall Thompkins was a rookie and was cut from the team and signed by the Raiders I believe and Joshua Boyce was a rookie who I don't even think is in the league anymore...  oh and can't forget they had Hoomanowanui, a 3rd string blocking tight end...

 

those were some serious weapons!!!  talk about STABILITY with all that turnover and no-name talent they surrounded him with!

 

 

 

It tells YOU that, because YOU see things from an insanely bias perspective with a genuine disdain for Brady and will try to discredit him at every single turn.

 

The reason they don't have to smother him in offensive talent is because he is so good... They can throw anyone out there and Brady will make it work and compete for Super Bowls with them..thats his curse, because hes so talented the front office takes advantage of him and asks him to do more with less constantly...

 

Manning is the total opposite.. front offices have invested incredible amounts of assets and resources into his skill positions and offensive line his entire career.  There was only 1-2 years where he didn't have an insane group of talent from top to bottom, but he still had REGGIE WAYNE who is a Hall of Fame wide receiver..

So let me guess, it only takes

 

One of the greatest TEs of all time ( Gronk )

One of the greatest WRs of all time ( Moss )

One of the greatest slot receivers of all time ( Welker )

 

for Brady to make it work. Anyone else are not considered weapons.

[JerodMayo51]

Anything wrong with it?.

 

Nothing wrong with it, I completely agree with you but I was absolutely floored hearing it come out of the mouth of a Colt's fan/Manning worshipper.

 

 

Doesn't the Manning cult frown on such statements that don't put him up on a fluffy cloud of perfection and righteousness?  They might throw you out da Manning club for that

[JerodMayo51]

So let me guess, it only takes

 

One of the greatest TEs of all time ( Gronk )

One of the greatest WRs of all time ( Moss )

One of the greatest slot receivers of all time ( Welker )

 

for Brady to make it work. Anyone else are not considered weapons.

 

Brady only played with Moss for 2 seasons..  and Brady never had Moss, Gronk and Welker on the field at the same time other than the first game or two in 2010, when Gronk was a rookie and Moss was being phased out and was traded by week 3.

 

You ready for this?

 

2006 - Moss puts up 553 yards and 3 TDs (Raiders)

2007 - Moss traded to Patriots, breaks Rice's TD record, going for 1493 yards and 23 TDs

2008 - Brady out for season, Moss' stats drop by 500 yards and 12 TDs

2009 - Brady's first season back from reconstructive knee surgery, Moss puts up 1264 yards and 13 TDs

2010 - Moss is phased out of the gameplan and traded to Minnesota...  Puts up 174 yards and 2 TDs

2010 - Moss is traded to Tennessee and puts up an eye popping 80 yards and 0 TDs

2011 - Moss retires from football

2012 - Moss tries to ride the 49ers train to a SB, puts up a pedestrian 434 yards and 3 TDs

 

 

So yea... its pretty clear that Brady resurrected Moss' career.. Other than 2005, 2003 was the last time Moss had broke 1000 yards.  He comes to the Patriots and all of a sudden is a legend again, breaking records and everyone here saying "Its all Moss!  Brady can just throw it up to him in quadruple, triple summersault coverage and Moss will catch it!"

 

 

In 2010 after trading Moss away, Brady lead the 3rd highest scoring offense in NFL history with 2 rookie tight ends and wes welker..

 

 

As for Welker.. he was average in Miami.. it wasn't until he came to New England that people knew who he was and he started putting up huge numbers.  He went to Denver and his production has DROPPED, to the point where people are saying he is expendable now in Denver and I can almost guarantee that Denver has no interest in re-signing him at the end of the year..

 

So yet again another example of a player being average, coming to the Patriots lead by Brady and becoming a legend at their position, then moving on to another team (with Manning of all people) and see his production drop significantly each year after to the point of mediocrity again.

[Shane Bond]

Nothing wrong with it, I completely agree with you but I was absolutely floored hearing it come out of the mouth of a Colt's fan/Manning worshipper.

 

 

Doesn't the Manning cult frown on such statements that don't put him up on a fluffy cloud of perfection and righteousness?  They might throw you out da Manning club for that

That doesnt take anything away from Manning. Its just playoff football with the weather and other factors. Cant be one-dimensional.

[Shane Bond]

Brady only played with Moss for 2 seasons..  and Brady never had Moss, Gronk and Welker on the field at the same time other than the first game or two in 2010, when Gronk was a rookie and Moss was being phased out and was traded by week 3.

 

You ready for this?

 

2006 - Moss puts up 553 yards and 3 TDs (Raiders)

2007 - Moss traded to Patriots, breaks Rice's TD record, going for 1493 yards and 23 TDs

2008 - Brady out for season, Moss' stats drop by 500 yards and 12 TDs

2009 - Brady's first season back from reconstructive knee surgery, Moss puts up 1264 yards and 13 TDs

2010 - Moss is phased out of the gameplan and traded to Minnesota...  Puts up 174 yards and 2 TDs

2010 - Moss is traded to Tennessee and puts up an eye popping 80 yards and 0 TDs

2011 - Moss retires from football

2012 - Moss tries to ride the 49ers train to a SB, puts up a pedestrian 434 yards and 3 TDs

 

 

So yea... its pretty clear that Brady resurrected Moss' career.. Other than 2005, 2003 was the last time Moss had broke 1000 yards.  He comes to the Patriots and all of a sudden is a legend again, breaking records and everyone here saying "Its all Moss!  Brady can just throw it up to him in quadruple, triple summersault coverage and Moss will catch it!"

 

 

In 2010 after trading Moss away, Brady lead the 3rd highest scoring offense in NFL history with 2 rookie tight ends and wes welker..

 

 

As for Welker.. he was average in Miami.. it wasn't until he came to New England that people knew who he was and he started putting up huge numbers.  He went to Denver and his production has DROPPED, to the point where people are saying he is expendable now in Denver and I can almost guarantee that Denver has no interest in re-signing him at the end of the year..

 

So yet again another example of a player being average, coming to the Patriots lead by Brady and becoming a legend at their position, then moving on to another team (with Manning of all people) and see his production drop significantly each year after to the point of mediocrity again.

This has been discussed already.

[Blackhawk4]

This isn't hard guys. This thread is about New England at San Diego today. If you can't keep on topic about that game then stop posting in this thread. 

[JerodMayo51]

lol nice.. Moderator comes to save the day when the Colts fans make ridiculous posts they cant back up and are sent to the back of the classroom when I completely own them in a debate..

 

Colts fan started the Manning vs Brady debate, I finished it.. but of course the mod comes and removes my long, well worded posts.. You guys are ridiculous

 

You wasted about 35 minutes of my morning

[Girlzarefanstoo]

JerodMayo51, just an observation.  Maybe if the posts were relevant to the topic at hand they wouldn't have been deleted and your time wouldn't have been "wasted."

 

It seems like a huge percentage of posts end up being arguments about who's better Brady or Manning, Colts or Patriots.  This is the NFL section of the forum and there are 32 teams to talk about.  

 

I can't wait for this game tonight.  Rivers has never faced New England in December where his record reigns - I'm hoping he gets his first win against Brady and the Patriots.  I won't deny it, the Patriots have owned us, here's hoping that begins to change today!

[-JJ-]

The "best" is always subjective... numbers are important, but so is temperament, will to win, the way he relates to his team mates, work habits, the ability to lead etc. etc. etc.  The top 5 QBs will go up and down in ranking year by year because of one simple fact: the qb needs 45 other team members on game day.

 

Does the guy with the highest stats = the best or the guy that has led his team to the most Super Bowl wins?  Or perhaps the guy that gets the most out of the rest of the team and raises the level of everyone around him?  Arguing about who is the "best" is futile.  If you had 100 experts in the room, you would have 100 different opinions on who the "best" is and why. 

best post ever

[oldunclemark]

Cincy (8-4-1) losing is big for NE (9-3)and even bigger for SD (8-4)

[Shane Bond]

Colts won, Denver won and now SD make my day !

[oldunclemark]

Colts won, Denver won and now SD make my day !

Been looking forward to this game....Chargers know KC has taken a dirt nap...and they have tie breaker over Baltimore (8-5)

....NE knows that with Cincy..falling...its all about staying even with Denver.

Its so interesting to guess how these 2 defense each other

[weslo1812]

I dont see this game being close for long. I think NE is gonna run away with this one. And NE just doesn't lose back to back