Post-Mortem from Denver Post

[TAPLOOK]

I will grant you that Patriots completely dominated the Broncos. I won't argue that, but just because Denver got schooled in the latest head to head match up, I wouldn't put any upper hand in the next Playoff game for the Pats myself. BB is famous for saying that every game takes on a life of it's own. 

 

NE got steamrolled by the KC Chiefs did you get your butt whipped by a better team too? Hades no. 1 loss in a 1 sided game doesn't serve as "common denominator" down the road. Yeah I know you were implying that 18 chokes in the snow. Does that mean Brady is allergic to the NY Giants pass rush & without Vince Wilfork on the other side to give him the ball back Brady can't win SuperBowls? 

 

If you wanna say that Manning's arm strength isn't the same as 2004-2009, I can roll with that because it's a valid point. But Peyton's biggest asset is his ability to anticipate throws & drop them where they need to be especially on slant & go routes.  I will grant you that on crossing routes across the middle Manning got WR Austin Collie hurt with high ball placement sometimes. I won't lie about that.

Yes KC was a better team when they played the Patriots.

Yes if the Patriots meet the Broncos in the playoffs it will play out differently but the Patriots will still win in Denver or Foxboro. A lot can happen between now and then to either team injury wise and change the picture completely.

Peyton isn't a bad weather QB. History tells us this. Denver is Indy all over again.

His arm is becoming so weak that anticipation is failing him with more frequency. Dude has always hung out receivers but now it's becoming a real issue.

Those Giants SB's were battles and quite entertaining. The commercials were more entertaining than the games in Peyton's three SB's.

[southwest1]

Yes KC was a better team when they played the Patriots.

Yes if the Patriots meet the Broncos in the playoffs it will play out differently but the Patriots will still win in Denver or Foxboro. A lot can happen between now and then to either team injury wise and change the picture completely.

Peyton isn't a bad weather QB. History tells us this. Denver is Indy all over again.

His arm is becoming so weak that anticipation is failing him with more frequency. Dude has always hung out receivers but now it's becoming a real issue.

Those Giants SB's were battles and quite entertaining. The commercials were more entertaining than the games in Peyton's three SB's.

A good post overall TPLK except when I mentioned NE's KC loss that has more to do with pathetic o-line protection for Brady than the superior play of QB Alex Smith during 1 nationally televised night game. So no, KC was not the better team at all. The issue was a failure to furnish a clean pocket for Brady to find his WR's & TE's in. 

 

Denver has a premier defense now something Peyton never had in INDY even in 2006 or 2009. His quick ball release made both Colt defenses look better than it actually was. Like I said to AMF though, that Broncos D needs to show me that it can hold down the fort if Peyton is struggling. Miller gets his hands on QBs why not Ware? Turn it up a notch & earn that $20 million in guaranteed money man. Step it up pronto! Or take a page from JJ Watt & Jason Pierre Paul & just put your hands up & knock passes down. 

 

I was only kidding about that NY Giants pass rush remark or I was using it as a comic counter to the notion that Brady is bullet proof in the post season. Tom is a cool customer in bad weather. No denying that. 

 

My main argument here is this: If Seattle showed the NFL how to beat Manning by jamming their WRs & disrupting their routes at the line scrimmage, a bruiser back with decent legs underneath him is more essential to Peyton's playoff success than a break the financial bank defense. The more I watch 18 play now; the more I am convinced of that. 

 

I liked the pieces John Elway added initially on D, but with crappy production at RB, Peyton is fighting an up hill battle of age & arm strength now which mandates stellar infantry production in the trenches more than ever. Hillman performs great on a clean field, but once the grass gets sloppy with poor traction...You don't want a fast ferrari; You want a slow & steady German tank that penetrates & pulverizes whatever lies in front of it. 

[dgambill]

The term fan is short for fanatic....but most fans must think it means lunatic apparantly lol. Don't get me wrong I get excited and dissappointed but not to the point it bothers me for hours or even days...and certainly not enough for me to be upset that we haven't won it all. I mean being a fan is about the ride...the unexpected ups and downs......its life..thats why sports are often a good metaphore for life. Just like Peyton was saying this week...it isn't about the beat down..that happens..its how you respond. Do you get up...try harder and comeback again? I heard a lot of people saying Peyton only excels in perfect conditions etc...but come on...the guy has suffered more post season defeats than any other qb in history...and some were pretty crushing losses...heartbreakers...we've seen tons of players crack under the pressure. Never get back...and you know what...Peyton comes back year after year and plays his heart out...win or lose but don't kid yourself mostly win. He sets a tone for the team to achieve more...get better and get back there...and he always brings them back. When some guys egos get hurt they curl up and wilt...they don't respond...but guys like Peyton and what we saw with Tom (especially after kc) they reach deep inside and inspire themselves and their teams to come back and fight. I expect that this week and every week. These type of guys would make good generals...generals don't always win every battle...they take some losses....some hurt because they see the effect on their men...but they pull them together and LEAD...that is what Peyton is trying to do this week and that is what he has done two consecutive years after suffering sports heartbreak.  

 

Back to the fans if they want to go back to a mediocre 8-8 team and irrelevant then they don't deserve the team they have. Something that ticked me off earlier with some of the Pats fans (not really any that frequent here so much) but they don't realize what they have...take a leader like Tom Brady away and they won't be relevent....unless they are fortunate to find another great leader. If one ever reads the comment sections on most internet articles they see the crap of the avg fan...uninformed..unintelligent...egotistical bravado...which is why I appreciate a lot of the great posters we have here for the most part.

 

Whatever the case I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of the Broncos or Patriots...they have some great leaders and they will be back...I think a ton of people underestimated the work the Pats did this offseason adding Revis, Browner, Lafell.....and how big getting Gronk back is.....they were my pick for #1 seed before the season...and they are showing why now. As for the coaches I think people just forget how good Bill is....it takes a brillant performance like this week to remind people he is up there with the GREATS. People talk about spygate but his teams are just as good without it...so did it really matter...probably a little but clearly he knows how to play a great defense given the talent. Denver doesn't really have that imo....perhaps Peyton has too much control of the offense or perhaps Fox and Del Rio are that great of strategists....but Belichek like his team is underrated imo....and thats saying something considering he is called the best coach in the game lol.

 

I will say one thing....I do put a tiny blame on Elway here...he has done a good job with that defense and offense...as far as talent...but he still never addressed the one thing that he needed to get over the top...a running game...Peyton doesn't need an AP quality back but he needs someone to lean on and trust....and I don't think he has that....someone like James was for him early in his career....someone similar to Moreno but lets be honest Moreno isn't a Terrell Davis...not even close. Peyton will run the ball...I know people don't think so but he will...he has proven it before especially in big games but he just doesn't have it...and that offense is becoming predictable...and waaay to dependant on a aging arm....no matter how accurate and amazing it proves to be. Thats probably my only critic really....other than that...Denver just didn't show up ready for a heavy weight fight...and I guess getting punched in the mouth will see if they like the taste of blood or if they lay down.....I think they wipe their nose and come out swinging.

[oldunclemark]

Revis said after the game that the Pats D knew exactly what the Broncos were going to do. Not that this is a surprise as Manning always runs his Indy offense and the key to stopping it has never changed - be physical with his receivers and pressure him up the middle. This is the main reason I believe Bill has such a great record against him. If Bill knows what you are going to do, you are pretty much dead in the water.

 

Manning has never had a plan B when things go off schedule which IMO has contributed in large part to his playoff record where good teams routinely take you out of your comfort zone.

Manning never has a 'Plan B' when things go off schedule...really? Of course, really good QBs all have that.

Revis knows what Manning is gong to do. Really? Seriously? And m one else has figured it out. Just Revis?

Play the same game in Denver and Denver wins. Even though Peyton 'never has a Plan B' and Revis know him inside out

[southwest1]

The term fan is short for fanatic....but most fans must think it means lunatic apparantly lol. Don't get me wrong I get excited and dissappointed but not to the point it bothers me for hours or even days...and certainly not enough for me to be upset that we haven't won it all. I mean being a fan is about the ride...the unexpected ups and downs......its life..thats why sports are often a good metaphore for life. Just like Peyton was saying this week...it isn't about the beat down..that happens..its how you respond. Do you get up...try harder and comeback again? I heard a lot of people saying Peyton only excels in perfect conditions etc...but come on...the guy has suffered more post season defeats than any other qb in history...and some were pretty crushing losses...heartbreakers...we've seen tons of players crack under the pressure. Never get back...and you know what...Peyton comes back year after year and plays his heart out...win or lose but don't kid yourself mostly win. He sets a tone for the team to achieve more...get better and get back there...and he always brings them back. When some guys egos get hurt they curl up and wilt...they don't respond...but guys like Peyton and what we saw with Tom (especially after kc) they reach deep inside and inspire themselves and their teams to come back and fight. I expect that this week and every week. These type of guys would make good generals...generals don't always win every battle...they take some losses....some hurt because they see the effect on their men...but they pull them together and LEAD...that is what Peyton is trying to do this week and that is what he has done two consecutive years after suffering sports heartbreak.  

 

Back to the fans if they want to go back to a mediocre 8-8 team and irrelevant then they don't deserve the team they have. Something that ticked me off earlier with some of the Pats fans (not really any that frequent here so much) but they don't realize what they have...take a leader like Tom Brady away and they won't be relevent....unless they are fortunate to find another great leader. If one ever reads the comment sections on most internet articles they see the crap of the avg fan...uninformed..unintelligent...egotistical bravado...which is why I appreciate a lot of the great posters we have here for the most part.

 

Whatever the case I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of the Broncos or Patriots...they have some great leaders and they will be back...I think a ton of people underestimated the work the Pats did this offseason adding Revis, Browner, Lafell.....and how big getting Gronk back is.....they were my pick for #1 seed before the season...and they are showing why now. As for the coaches I think people just forget how good Bill is....it takes a brillant performance like this week to remind people he is up there with the GREATS. People talk about spygate but his teams are just as good without it...so did it really matter...probably a little but clearly he knows how to play a great defense given the talent. Denver doesn't really have that imo....perhaps Peyton has too much control of the offense or perhaps Fox and Del Rio are that great of strategists....but Belichek like his team is underrated imo....and thats saying something considering he is called the best coach in the game lol.

 

I will say one thing....I do put a tiny blame on Elway here...he has done a good job with that defense and offense...as far as talent...but he still never addressed the one thing that he needed to get over the top...a running game...Peyton doesn't need an AP quality back but he needs someone to lean on and trust....and I don't think he has that....someone like James was for him early in his career....someone similar to Moreno but lets be honest Moreno isn't a Terrell Davis...not even close. Peyton will run the ball...I know people don't think so but he will...he has proven it before especially in big games but he just doesn't have it...and that offense is becoming predictable...and waaay to dependant on a aging arm....no matter how accurate and amazing it proves to be. Thats probably my only critic really....other than that...Denver just didn't show up ready for a heavy weight fight...and I guess getting punched in the mouth will see if they like the taste of blood or if they lay down.....I think they wipe their nose and come out swinging.

Well thought out entry here DGB. Terrell Davis is a special back though with a great instinct or feel for when to make cuts & he was a patient runner always following his blockers to get to the 2nd level. Those guys sadly don't grow on trees unfortunately. Give Manning about 4 yards per carry consistently & Peyton will win a treasure trove of games both regular & post season. NE does mess with his head though. Yes, he has beaten them in the past, but both NE & the Chargers always give him psychological fits. 

 

Peyton's gotta play more loose against the Patriots. Relax, let the game come to you, & stop treating Foxboro like the big brother who stole all your Halloween candy. I can appreciate his attention to detail, but I often get the sense that he's so afraid of making a mistake there that it clenches his muscles up, makes him more rigid, & uptight overall than he really needs to be. JMO. 

[chad72]

Manning never has a 'Plan B' when things go off schedule...really? Of course, really good QBs all have that.

Revis knows what Manning is gong to do. Really? Seriously? And m one else has figured it out. Just Revis?

Play the same game in Denver and Denver wins. Even though Peyton 'never has a Plan B' and Revis know him inside out

 

It is not that he does not have a Plan B. But Peyton prefers "library like" conditions, and got agitated when his fans started making noise and diverted his angst on fans to the scoreboard operator when asked about the Chargers game.

 

Once you introduce "chaos" into his "library like" conditions, he does not operate at high efficiency. Say what you want, his arm strength matters that split second against elite DBs to break it up. His perfect conditions are not windy, at home or inside a dome against elite teams who he plays more often in the playoffs. Against the lesser teams, none of it matters. Broncos have followed a theme under Peyton and John Fox, losing on the road consistently vs playoff teams. In fact, 2012 was the last time they had quality wins vs playoff teams on the road (Bengals, a depleted Ravens etc.). I also think John Fox coached teams make way more mistakes than Tony Dungy, that we don't highly think of or give credit to. A big reason why you win road games is by not making mistakes and the Colts era Peyton teams under Dungy did not shoot themselves in the foot nearly as much as John Fox's teams have, IMO.

 

Brady does not need HFA nearly as much as Peyton needs it, for that very reason, IMO. As a Colts homer, my eyes were a little more blind to see those Peyton deficiencies a few years ago but now, I can see a few more things clearly. Peyton on the road will be less competitive than Brady on the road against elite teams, hands down, because of Peyton committing more turnovers and him being surrounded by coaching that does not neutralize Belichick and his coaches in any shape or form (who puts a safety T.J.Ward on Edelman, did they not play him last year to know his short area quickness and did they not see Gates owning T.J.Ward either?)

[oldunclemark]

Better teasm as defined after they beat you. Arizona isn't an elite team because Denver beat them

Its easy to look back on someone's play and postanalayze it.../Because you can explain in hindsight...when its easy to write the story

There is no defnite way to prove that Jon Fox's teams make more mistakes than Tony Dungy's

WE are excusing impressions or ('seems to me' thoughts) for facts..

This analysis sounds like the 'Brady is done' talk after week 3...wait a week and you can write a different story

Manning has played in many chaotic situations..and his arm strength is the same (maybe strong ) than last season when he threw 55 TDs.

Sometimes you throw the ball..your guy tips it and the other side interception...

Probably time to point out that even though Revis 'knew what was coming' and Peyton 'doesnt have a Plan B' and that he doesn't 'react well to chaotic decisions' against 'elite teamns'

Peyton threw for 430 yards last week...Sometimes you lose. Fans cant accept that. they have to make up reasons.

[amfootball]

Manning never has a 'Plan B' when things go off schedule...really? Of course, really good QBs all have that.

Revis knows what Manning is gong to do. Really? Seriously? And m one else has figured it out. Just Revis?

Play the same game in Denver and Denver wins. Even though Peyton 'never has a Plan B' and Revis know him inside out

When has Manning ever tried anything but his Indy offense?

 

Stop with the home field advantage already. Denver was destroyed. Pats are the better team right now regardless of venue.

[jvan1973]

When has Manning ever tried anything but his Indy offense?

Stop with the home field advantage already. Denver was destroyed. Pats are the better team right now regardless of venue.

if they play in Denver tomorrow, the broncos would be favored in Vegas

[amfootball]

if they play in Denver tomorrow, the broncos would be favored in Vegas

They were favored in NE too.

[ColtStronger]

Have never understood the criticism of FOX....it always gos back to befor ehe wa sin Denver which isn't relevenat

...the fact that FOX wasn't on the field had no effect n them one way or another..

Like every town...folks blame the coach of the coordinators.

Denver was 13-3 in 2012...13-3 in 2013...and with a tougher scheduled (NFC West) they're looking at 12-4 or 13-3 this season...

Fans blow in the wind from week to week,..The Broncos have lost at Seattle and NE

they're fine

That's because the player's play and the coaches coach.  Great talent can cover up a sub par coach!  Take for instance Erik Spolstra in MIA

[jvan1973]

They were favored in NE too.

i know, my point is that game means nothing if the pats have to go there in January

[amfootball]

i know, my point is that game means nothing if the pats have to go there in January

I am not sure it means anything if it is Foxboro. That will be almost two months away. All it means is right now the Pats are better than the Broncos by a lot. If both teams stay healthy there is no reason to question a different outcome regardless of venue.

[chad72]

Better teasm as defined after they beat you. Arizona isn't an elite team because Denver beat them

Its easy to look back on someone's play and postanalayze it.../Because you can explain in hindsight...when its easy to write the story

There is no defnite way to prove that Jon Fox's teams make more mistakes than Tony Dungy's

WE are excusing impressions or ('seems to me' thoughts) for facts..

This analysis sounds like the 'Brady is done' talk after week 3...wait a week and you can write a different story

Manning has played in many chaotic situations..and his arm strength is the same (maybe strong ) than last season when he threw 55 TDs.

Sometimes you throw the ball..your guy tips it and the other side interception...

Probably time to point out that even though Revis 'knew what was coming' and Peyton 'doesnt have a Plan B' and that he doesn't 'react well to chaotic decisions' against 'elite teamns'

Peyton threw for 430 yards last week...Sometimes you lose. Fans cant accept that. they have to make up reasons.

 

If they beat Arizona in Arizona, it would be different, IMO. It is not the same. In the last 2 minutes, they give up a TD to Russell Wilson and Brady before the half. That does not reflect a sense of urgency to me from the defensive coaches. Brady has an outstanding record vs JDR defenses. The reason being, JDR does not adjust well. However, against the Ravens' D, it is lukewarm. I will take our Pagano coached D and our defensive backs over Denver's any day of the week.

 

With this Denver team, when things go south, they go south pretty fast with not much of a resistance against elite teams. When was the last time Peyton had a 4th qtr. comeback vs a playoff team as a Bronco in the regular season, home or road? You have to go back to 2012, IMO, vs the Bengals. This team has to play ahead (like the divisional round vs the Chargers, like the AFCCG vs the Patriots) and if it has to come back, more often than not, it falls short vs the playoff teams. The numbers show it. I am not making that up.

[dynasty13]

I am not sure it means anything if it is Foxboro. That will be almost two months away. All it means is right now the Pats are better than the Broncos by a lot. If both teams stay healthy there is no reason to question a different outcome regardless of venue.

 

Believe me I wish I could agree with you here...but I can't. 

 

It was one game. One. Yes the patriots looked impressive, yes they can be better than the Broncos...but the way this past Sunday's game went down will ultimately have no bearing on how another one will go down in January. I happen to believe in the advantage you get by playing at home....a heck of a lot more than I used to now due to the inconsistency of certain officiating. I think the venue will play a huge role should these two teams meet again.

[amfootball]

Believe me I wish I could agree with you here...but I can't. 

 

It was one game. One. Yes the patriots looked impressive, yes they can be better than the Broncos...but the way this past Sunday's game went down will ultimately have no bearing on how another one will go down in January. I happen to believe in the advantage you get by playing at home....a heck of a lot more than I used to now due to the inconsistency of certain officiating. I think the venue will play a huge role should these two teams meet again.

Let me ask you, what would you fear about the Broncos in a rematch? Do you think the Pats D will all of a sudden forget how to cover or Gronk will not be open?

 

It's not like this past week's game were played in wintry conditions. It was 39 and clear with some wind. About as ideal as you are going to get it in Foxboro. Denver weather in January could be nasty like it was two years ago which would favor the Pats.

 

Home field is worth about 3 points. Pats won by 22 and the game didn't even seem that close. Barring injury, I have no reason to believe that Denver would all of a sudden morph into a different team and likewise the Pats just because it is in Denver. Bill built this team in the off-season specifically to beat Denver and so far he has done just that.

 

Also, the whole point in winning this game was to give us the fast track to the number one seed. We are in the drivers seat right now which is all you can ask. It is Denver that is chasing us. They have to win out and hope we lose a game.

[oldunclemark]

When has Manning ever tried anything but his Indy offense?

 

Stop with the home field advantage already. Denver was destroyed. Pats are the better team right now regardless of venue.

..Play the same game in Denver and Denver wins...a/m. you know that...you saw it last year

[oldunclemark]

'

'

I just think that whenever a team loses, we become Dr. Phil....based on one day

..all of the 'First takers' were certain that NE was flawed beyond recognition early in the year and they were all wrong.

So much analysis on what was wrong with Tom Brady...and was he broken.?

Nobody is destroyed in one game on the road...NE wasn't. The Colts weren't. Doesn't anybody get tired of over analyzing one game?.

Look at the entire season.....

[ViriLudant]

Manning never has a 'Plan B' when things go off schedule...really? Of course, really good QBs all have that.Revis knows what Manning is gong to do. Really? Seriously? And m one else has figured it out. Just Revis?Play the same game in Denver and Denver wins. Even though Peyton 'never has a Plan B' and Revis know him inside out

WHAT?!

How does home field advantage give a 22 point swing?

[southwest1]

Believe me I wish I could agree with you here...but I can't. 

 

It was one game. One. Yes the patriots looked impressive, yes they can be better than the Broncos...but the way this past Sunday's game went down will ultimately have no bearing on how another one will go down in January. I happen to believe in the advantage you get by playing at home....a heck of a lot more than I used to now due to the inconsistency of certain officiating. I think the venue will play a huge role should these two teams meet again.

I always wonder what matters more for 2 teams destined to meet again in the Playoffs. Winning Round 1 or Losing Round 1? The victor thinks we stomped you once & we will do it again. The losers are highly motivated to right this initial wrong or beat down. Whose got the best advantage here? The Pats not viewing the Broncos as a serious threat/nothing they haven't seen before or Denver having plenty of time to stew over this loss & being driven to change the outcome during the next rematch? 

 

I don't have answer either way. I just know that smack downs can inspire squads to clean up the mistakes, improvise, & shake the whipped team into incredible focus & the sooner that happens the better for both rivals involved. Getting embarrassed brings out the best in people out of sheer necessity to prove that the debacle was a fluke not a longterm trend. 

 

The strange thing is that the Broncos struggle at Foxboro & the Patriots struggle at Invesco Field in Denver on average, but it's not an exact scientific result either. 

[Cnr324]

If they beat Arizona in Arizona, it would be different, IMO. It is not the same. In the last 2 minutes, they give up a TD to Russell Wilson and Brady before the half. That does not reflect a sense of urgency to me from the defensive coaches. Brady has an outstanding record vs JDR defenses. The reason being, JDR does not adjust well. However, against the Ravens' D, it is lukewarm. I will take our Pagano coached D and our defensive backs over Denver's any day of the week.

With this Denver team, when things go south, they go south pretty fast with not much of a resistance against elite teams. When was the last time Peyton had a 4th qtr. comeback vs a playoff team as a Bronco in the regular season, home or road? You have to go back to 2012, IMO, vs the Bengals. This team has to play ahead (like the divisional round vs the Chargers, like the AFCCG vs the Patriots) and if it has to come back, more often than not, it falls short vs the playoff teams. The numbers show it. I am not making that up.

Chad I've always liked your post and I agree 100% with you . This team was a "2nd half " team in 2012 when they would comeback and just look dominant on all cylinders . I honestly believe 2012 should have been Denver's year . The defense played great outside of the Divisional round against the Ravens . I'll say it again if Denver doesn't get home field I don't think we make the Super Bowl.. Can't see them winning in Foxboro or in Indy . Sigh..

[Moose Of Woe]

I really don't see how anyone can say Denver is a better team overall than NE.

 

Offense:

Passing attack = Slight edge Denver. Denver certainly has more good players than NE, but none of them are the dominating monster Gronk is. Edelman can take over a game, too.

O-lines = Wash. Both QB's usually get plenty of time to throw, and the run blocking is meh.

Running attack = Slight edge NE which is unimpressive/below average. Denver's is down right bad to the point of being a wasted down almost every time.

 

Special teams = NE by a mile in all phases. Kicker/punter, returns, and coverage.

Coaches = NE by a mile.

Discipline = NE by a mile.

 

Defense:

VS the run - Denver is great, NE are no slouches. Slight edge DEN

 

VS the pass - Denver has better pass rushers, but when they don't get there their coverage falls apart.  NE are turnover generating machines. NE also tends to mix it up when something isn't working (coaching) instead of doing the same thing expecting different results. How many times have we seen BB on the sidelines drawing up defensive plays and reorganizing the troops? I don't think I've seen Del Rio do it once. Just the "do what we do" mantra which means rush 4 and hope something changes. (It doesn't.) Massive advantage: NE  

 

The three notes in bold are all severely underrated aspects of playing football, and Denver is atrocious at all of them while NE excels. NE is the more balanced team between the two, and it's really not that close. That doesn't mean Denver can't beat NE, but NE should be favored between the two venue be damned.

 

As an aside, we're also a more balanced team than Denver is. If we could pass block worth a crap and had a reliable secondary, we'd be pretty scary. If we meet them in the playoffs we can beat them along with several other teams. Beating NE is a much more daunting task.

[amfootball]

..Play the same game in Denver and Denver wins...a/m. you know that...you saw it last year

Oh stop. That is a terrible argument and you know it. The Pats did not just beat Denver by one or two scores. They destroyed them. There is absolutely no reason to believe in a different outcome based on what we saw. Absolutely none.

 

In terms of last year, do you really think Denver won because it was in Denver? Not the fact that they were the better overall team and had been all season? Not the fact that Brady was throwing to Matthew Slater and Austin Collie as his main outside WRs or the fact that Talib left the game early in the game?

 

Believe it or not Manning has won in Foxboro, twice actually and Brady has won in both Indy and Denver. Home field is important but not to the point that you would favor a team that just got destroyed because they are at home. That is just silly.

[dynasty13]

Let me ask you, what would you fear about the Broncos in a rematch? Do you think the Pats D will all of a sudden forget how to cover or Gronk will not be open?

 

It's not like this past week's game were played in wintry conditions. It was 39 and clear with some wind. About as ideal as you are going to get it in Foxboro. Denver weather in January could be nasty like it was two years ago which would favor the Pats.

 

Home field is worth about 3 points. Pats won by 22 and the game didn't even seem that close. Barring injury, I have no reason to believe that Denver would all of a sudden morph into a different team and likewise the Pats just because it is in Denver. Bill built this team in the off-season specifically to beat Denver and so far he has done just that.

 

Also, the whole point in winning this game was to give us the fast track to the number one seed. We are in the drivers seat right now which is all you can ask. It is Denver that is chasing us. They have to win out and hope we lose a game.

 

Remember when we beat the Jets 45-3 during the season then they came back and beat us AT HOME in the playoffs? Remember when we were all using that drubbing as justification for why there was no way we could possibly lose to them? Your argument reeks of that same cockiness that we all had going into that matchup.

 

Things happen. I'm starting to wonder if you've ever watched a complete football season before because you seem to be operating under the belief that when a team blows out another at home in the regular season, that automatically means that they will win again down the road regardless of venue.

 

"There's no reason to think the next game won't go the same way".

 

Really? That's simply not how this league works. 

 

To be honest, I would be surprised if we end up with the #1 seed, which means we would be traveling to Denver in the playoffs...and I'm sorry but I just don't think many Patriots fans share your unyielding optimism about that possibility. 

[jvan1973]

Oh stop. That is a terrible argument and you know it. The Pats did not just beat Denver by one or two scores. They destroyed them. There is absolutely no reason to believe in a different outcome based on what we saw. Absolutely none.

In terms of last year, do you really think Denver won because it was in Denver? Not the fact that they were the better overall team and had been all season? Not the fact that Brady was throwing to Matthew Slater and Austin Collie as his main outside WRs or the fact that Talib left the game early in the game?

Believe it or not Manning has won in Foxboro, twice actually and Brady has won in both Indy and Denver. Home field is important but not to the point that you would favor a team that just got destroyed because they are at home. That is just silly.

When did the pats win in Denver since Manning was the qb?

[amfootball]

Remember when we beat the Jets 45-3 during the season then they came back and beat us AT HOME in the playoffs? Remember when we were all using that drubbing as justification for why there was no way we could possibly lose to them? Your argument reeks of that same cockiness that we all had going into that matchup.

 

Things happen. I'm starting to wonder if you've ever watched a complete football season before because you seem to be operating under the belief that when a team blows out another at home in the regular season, that automatically means that they will win again down the road regardless of venue.

 

"There's no reason to think the next game won't go the same way".

 

Really? That's simply not how this league works. 

 

To be honest, I would be surprised if we end up with the #1 seed, which means we would be traveling to Denver in the playoffs...and I'm sorry but I just don't think many Patriots fans share your unyielding optimism about that possibility. 

 

I think you are missing the entire point of this debate. I am arguing that the Pats would automatically lose in Denver this season just because the game is in Denver. Your Jets point is perfect for MY argument actually. We had beaten them 45-3 and then they came back and beat us IN Foxboro in the playoffs. So how did home field favor us in that game? You would think by the responses here that just by the fact that NE would travel Denver would mean an automatic loss after the Pats just blew their doors off. Sorry, I don’t see it on THAT basis. Sure Denver could win but it will be because they have come up with a MUCH better game plan on both sides of the ball and not because they are simply AT home. Of course injuries/team health could factor in as well as they did last year’s playoff game.

 

Also, separately, I don’t understand why everyone is conceding the number one seed to Denver right now. We did just beat them, right? And our records are identical, right?  We both have tough stretches coming up and Denver still has four more road games. Right now, Denver is chasing us. Not the other way around and they are the team that is trying to figure out right now how they got humiliated so bad by a team they were favored to beat. And if I recall, all the media pundits and talking heads said two weeks that this would be the toughest seven game stretch for the Pats beginning with Chicago. So far we are 2-0 with two blowouts and one against a team who many believed was the best team in football. It is beyond me why our fanbase would not be stoked and optimistic about that. But that is just me.

[dynasty13]

I think you are missing the entire point of this debate. I am arguing that the Pats would automatically lose in Denver this season just because the game is in Denver. Your Jets point is perfect for MY argument actually. We had beaten them 45-3 and then they came back and beat us IN Foxboro in the playoffs. So how did home field favor us in that game? You would think by the responses here that just by the fact that NE would travel Denver would mean an automatic loss after the Pats just blew their doors off. Sorry, I don’t see it on THAT basis. Sure Denver could win but it will be because they have come up with a MUCH better game plan on both sides of the ball and not because they are simply AT home. Of course injuries/team health could factor in as well as they did last year’s playoff game.

 

Also, separately, I don’t understand why everyone is conceding the number one seed to Denver right now. We did just beat them, right? And our records are identical, right?  We both have tough stretches coming up and Denver still has four more road games. Right now, Denver is chasing us. Not the other way around and they are the team that is trying to figure out right now how they got humiliated so bad by a team they were favored to beat. And if I recall, all the media pundits and talking heads said two weeks that this would be the toughest seven game stretch for the Pats beginning with Chicago. So far we are 2-0 with two blowouts and one against a team who many believed was the best team in football. It is beyond me why our fanbase would not be stoked and optimistic about that. But that is just me.

 

We are very stoked and optimistic about our place in the league right now, and I am very much impressed with how the team has performed over the last month+. There's just something very unnerving about the prospect of facing a Peyton Manning led team in the playoffs...whether that be home OR away. I'd feel much more comfortable if it were at home, but I'd never go as far as to say that we should 'expect' the same result and performance a one we saw earlier in the year. 

 

My point is this...if I was in a bubble and your posts on this topic were the only exposure I ever had to this rivalry, I would think that the Patriots have fully dominated Peyton in the playoffs and I should be fully comfortable with playing him at do or die time. But that's simply not accurate, and the fact is that the Patriots are 2-2 against him in January...these games can always go either way. I've seen enough games of his where I know that the guy can turn it on in a flash and no lead is ever safe. 

 

That scares me, regardless of how good I think my team is. It scared me in '03, it scared me in '04, it scared me in '06, and it scared me in '13. I'm always confident that we'll win...but I never feel at ease going into a game against him.

[amfootball]

We are very stoked and optimistic about our place in the league right now, and I am very much impressed with how the team has performed over the last month+. There's just something very unnerving about the prospect of facing a Peyton Manning led team in the playoffs...whether that be home OR away. I'd feel much more comfortable if it were at home, but I'd never go as far as to say that we should 'expect' the same result and performance a one we saw earlier in the year. 

 

My point is this...if I was in a bubble and your posts on this topic were the only exposure I ever had to this rivalry, I would think that the Patriots have fully dominated Peyton in the playoffs and I should be fully comfortable with playing him at do or die time. But that's simply not accurate, and the fact is that the Patriots are 2-2 against him in January...these games can always go either way. I've seen enough games of his where I know that the guy can turn it on in a flash and no lead is ever safe. 

 

That scares me, regardless of how good I think my team is. It scared me in '03, it scared me in '04, it scared me in '06, and it scared me in '13. I'm always confident that we'll win...but I never feel at ease going into a game against him.

I think if a bystander was to read this thread in its entirety he would fully understand my point which is home field is about worth 3 points not 22. I am not even really arguing Pats/Denver at all or Manning. All I have been arguing is this ridiculous notion that home field means an automatic win. That is patently not true. The Pats have lost 3 home playoff games since their last ring. Manning has also lost 3 home playoff games since his last ring including two years ago in Denver to the Ravens. This has been the thrust of my argument. I watch football games and see how teams match up and look at that first before notching a win just because a team is at home especially when one team completely dominates another.

[Yehoodi]

..Play the same game in Denver and Denver wins...a/m. you know that...you saw it last year

 

yah but did you see that there was no Gronk, Wilfork, Talib (injured in the game by Fredo), Lafell, Browner, and so on in that game last year . . . just saying . . . we had lots of injuries and this year we have some FAs that are contributing more than our starters last year . . . so in some ways we really can not use last years game . . . I still do not want to play in Denver but I think to say we would have the same result as last year is kind of a stretch . . . bottom line I think this year, if all holds server with respect to injuries on both sides of the ball I like our chances this year in Denver more than last . . .

[Yehoodi]

Remember when we beat the Jets 45-3 during the season then they came back and beat us AT HOME in the playoffs? Remember when we were all using that drubbing as justification for why there was no way we could possibly lose to them? Your argument reeks of that same cockiness that we all had going into that matchup.

 

Things happen. I'm starting to wonder if you've ever watched a complete football season before because you seem to be operating under the belief that when a team blows out another at home in the regular season, that automatically means that they will win again down the road regardless of venue.

 

"There's no reason to think the next game won't go the same way".

 

Really? That's simply not how this league works. 

 

To be honest, I would be surprised if we end up with the #1 seed, which means we would be traveling to Denver in the playoffs...and I'm sorry but I just don't think many Patriots fans share your unyielding optimism about that possibility. 

 

We will just have to wait and see how things turn out . . . as I mentioned in my last post . . . if there are no more injuries of any significance on either team I like my chances a whole lot more than last year . . . for me last year was like 2009, where our team was not that strong going into the playoffs (with the '09 version being our weakest version imo) so I had no real expectation going into those two playoffs games . . . we lost both and was not really disappointed as I have been with all of the other playoff losses like '06 and the rest . . .  

 

I think we need to remember that going into last year we had a lot of injuries and missing players going into the AFCCG . . . no Gronk, Wilfork, Mayo, Talib (thanks to Fredo), Hernandez in prison and so on . . . our option on offense were Edelman, who had a great year, and at times Slater, I mean really Slater? . . . this year we have Wilfork, Gronk, Lafell, Revis, Browner and so on . . . so we have a lot more parts this year than last . . .

 

And when we look at last year, not only did we win in the regular season and frankly were only behind due to a few freak plays, not to be repeated plays in the first half that got us behind . . . and we gave them a run for their money in Denver . . . so we overcame a big deficit in the regular season and then in the playoffs we had many injuries and our D not able to stop Manning but our team was able to get a score late in the 4th and just one two point conversion away from making it a one score game . . .

 

Bottom line we just need to look at the games and how they played out to get a gauge for the future . . . yes anything can happen the Bengals or the Browns could win the SB, and is a possibility, but the likelihood is what we are looking at and the likelihood is on the lower half of the scale for those two teams . . .

 

With that said, I do like our chances against Denver better than last year, regardless of where we play them and of coarse feel stronger with playing them at home, where the know the NFL will not get frisky with the calls  . . . and like you I understand that Manning can do anything in any game . . . but he has struggled in the playoffs and in cold weather, maybe he goes against the trend this year who knows . . . but the indicates will be leaning in the Pats favor come January if we are playing in Foxboro . . .

 

I think we need to also remember that the last three playoff runs we had no Gronk or an injured Gronk . . . who knows what we would of been able to do in the last three years if we had a healthy Gronk . . . this year if we have a healthy Gronk and no one is going for his knee caps, I like our chances . . .

[jvan1973]

We will just have to wait and see how things turn out . . . as I mentioned in my last post . . . if there are no more injuries of any significance on either team I like my chances a whole lot more than last year . . . for me last year was like 2009, where our team was not that strong going into the playoffs (with the '09 version being our weakest version imo) so I had no real expectation going into those two playoffs games . . . we lost both and was not really disappointed as I have been with all of the other playoff losses like '06 and the rest . . .

I think we need to remember that going into last year we had a lot of injuries and missing players going into the AFCCG . . . no Gronk, Wilfork, Mayo, Talib (thanks to Fredo), Hernandez in prison and so on . . . our option on offense were Edelman, who had a great year, and at times Slater, I mean really Slater? . . . this year we have Wilfork, Gronk, Lafell, Revis, Browner and so on . . . so we have a lot more parts this year than last . . .

And when we look at last year, not only did we win in the regular season and frankly were only behind due to a few freak plays, not to be repeated plays in the first half that got us behind . . . and we gave them a run for their money in Denver . . . so we overcame a big deficit in the regular season and then in the playoffs we had many injuries and our D not able to stop Manning but our team was able to get a score late in the 4th and just one two point conversion away from making it a one score game . . .

Bottom line we just need to look at the games and how they played out to get a gauge for the future . . . yes anything can happen the Bengals or the Browns could win the SB, and is a possibility, but the likelihood is what we are looking at and the likelihood is on the lower half of the scale for those two teams . . .

With that said, I do like our chances against Denver better than last year, regardless of where we play them and of coarse feel stronger with playing them at home, where the know the NFL will not get frisky with the calls . . . and like you I understand that Manning can do anything in any game . . . but he has struggled in the playoffs and in cold weather, maybe he goes against the trend this year who knows . . . but the indicates will be leaning in the Pats favor come January if we are playing in Foxboro . . .

I think we need to also remember that the last three playoff runs we had no Gronk or an injured Gronk . . . who knows what we would of been able to do in the last three years if we had a healthy Gronk . . . this year if we have a healthy Gronk and no one is going for his knee caps, I like our chances . . .

A lot of games left until the playoffs. Injuries can happen to any team at any point. Gronk had a freak broken arm on a PAT. Things happen. I wouldn't go counting those chickens just yet

[GoPats]

Home field makes a difference. Been saying it all along.

 

If Denver comes to NE again, I'd give the Patriots a 75/25 chance of winning. I do think the Patriots are more likely to win in Denver (maybe 40/60) than Denver is to win here. But I'd still feel better knowing the SB road in the AFC goes through Foxboro. 

[Yehoodi]

A lot of games left until the playoffs. Injuries can happen to any team at any point. Gronk had a freak broken arm on a PAT. Things happen. I wouldn't go counting those chickens just yet

 

agreed . . . nobody can . . . alas, football unlike other sports the injury bug plays a much bigger role simply because of the dynamics of the game . . . I wish it was otherwise . . . we will just have to wait and see what the next two months brings . . .

[dgambill]

Remember when we beat the Jets 45-3 during the season then they came back and beat us AT HOME in the playoffs? Remember when we were all using that drubbing as justification for why there was no way we could possibly lose to them? Your argument reeks of that same cockiness that we all had going into that matchup.

 

Things happen. I'm starting to wonder if you've ever watched a complete football season before because you seem to be operating under the belief that when a team blows out another at home in the regular season, that automatically means that they will win again down the road regardless of venue.

 

"There's no reason to think the next game won't go the same way".

 

Really? That's simply not how this league works. 

 

To be honest, I would be surprised if we end up with the #1 seed, which means we would be traveling to Denver in the playoffs...and I'm sorry but I just don't think many Patriots fans share your unyielding optimism about that possibility. 

Excellent post. We see every week upsets. In fact according to AM you guys may face KC in the second rd....and since home field is only worth 3 pts well there is NO WAY you could beat them right? lol. I feel exactly how you do on this one. I think NE are favorites at home and Denver probably favorites too. Just like the drumming Denver took in the SB from Seattle when they played them again it was essentially an even game even on Seattles home field. NFL games have such huge momentum swings that often games get away...mistakes compound and games get out of hand...throwing off gameplans etc. I think you guys should be VERY confident you can win it all....but nothing is a certainty...even in Foxboro where no one wins lol. Turnovers are huge...and Denver basically had 3 huge ones (if you count a kick return for td basically). Not only that but they missed fgs and then had so little confidence and was so far down that even though they moved the ball into scoring range they didn't even try fgs because they were meaningless. All that said if they cover and rush like they did last week...it probably won't matter. It was a horrible game they played made worse by excellent execution by the Pats. I don't know why people can't look at it objectively like you do but thats their perogative. We see it every week...teams like Pittsburg who should blitz the Jets...or one week Seattle man handle SF and then they play again and SF win. NFL teams typically aren't separated in skill by a whole lot....it comes down to execution and a lot of momentum often times. Hopefully we get off to a good start against you guys next week...given the youth we have its important for confidence to start well.

[dgambill]

agreed . . . nobody can . . . alas, football unlike other sports the injury bug plays a much bigger role simply because of the dynamics of the game . . . I wish it was otherwise . . . we will just have to wait and see what the next two months brings . . .

I hear you....Freeney spraining ligaments in his ankle against the Jets late sure changed our pass rush and defense in that SB against NO. Things happen from moment to moment....all this great moment we have...or you have...it can vanish very easy. I hear ya!

[Blue Horseshoe]

It's just one ball game. Just about every team in the league has been blown out at least once this year.

Doesn't mean a thing.

[JerodMayo51]

A lot of games left until the playoffs. Injuries can happen to any team at any point. Gronk had a freak broken arm on a PAT. Things happen. I wouldn't go counting those chickens just yet

 

True but this works both ways.. Pats have already lost a pro-bowl team captain in Mayo.. Denver has not lost anything of significance this year

[buccolts]

You make an intriguing point GP. Football is all about how you handle adversity meaning what does the QB do when the wheels fall off & things don't progress flawlessly? This is why I get so upset when I see Manning on the sidelines with his helmet on sitting there quietly as the other team marches down the field. Get angry Peyton. Tell your offense to focus & not to lay down. We have work to do & this game is far from over. 

 

Yes, I have seen 18 lead miraculous comeback drives, but his passive demeanor when the Broncos get down big time in games really bothers me. I'm not questioning his drive to win or his fierce competitiveness just his often defeatist body language. You don't think your other teammates can read that? Again, I not questioning his skill set or incredible preparation just his ability to rally his troops when conditions/game dynamics aren't perfect. 

 

Remember when Peyton was fined during that Texans game & fans were shocked & pleasantly surprised by that act of boldness defending his teammate Wes Welker after that hit because it was so out of character for Manning? Where is that guy & why did he go back into his gentlemen like shell? Unleash that aggression man. "Get P.O.ed for Greatness" as LB Ray Rice often says.

 

Football & life is not about what happens to you, but how you respond to what happens to you. Do you accept defeat or bite, scratch, claw, & go down swinging?  If I were to encapsulate the problem, I would say this: Confidence is easy to display when your team is winning, but not so simple to project when your team is losing. 

 

Leading by example sounds noble, but a swift kick in the caboose does wonders as in "Listen men, quit moping around & hanging your heads. We didn't work our tails off in training camp & lift all those weights to go out like this. So buck up, stop belly aching, get your mind right, & win this darn game!" 

 

I had to double check to make sure you weren't just some liquored up kicker.

 

I haven't watched many of his recent games, but over the years, yep, I've seen the 'dad nabit' look on his face. However, we've all seen plenty of times he's chewed out teammates, or confidently strutted out to get the job done. This is not Mr. Cutler we're talking about here.

 

BTW, to add to the 'weather' topic. Remember his homecoming? Wasn't it rumored that Irsay left the roof open because Peyton didn't like it? Don't know if that's true, but he didn't have his best day. The Colts played lights out, but it seemed it took Peyton a while to get into the swing of things.