Post-Mortem from Denver Post

[sweetsurrender]

Denver fans questioning coaches, players and team's ability to win big game.

 

Hi, Mr. Klis. Sunday's loss was just one loss, but what was troubling was the manner in which we lost. Darrelle Revis is saying they knew our game plan exactly. It seems John Elway was wrong to invest in Brandon McManus (which now seems like more of a financial decision). The defense looked overwhelmed. Beating up on the average teams is no consolation if we can't compete against elite opponents. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

 

 

Why is it that this talented team so often folds in games of major importance, particularly away from home? Why is it they seem to go into these games back on their heels, almost timid?

 

 

Can the Broncos win a game in the cold weather and against good teams? Peyton Manning seems more like a frontrunner than a winner.

 

[HungarianColtsFan]

Fans being fan, even in Denver.

[BrentMc11]

We said thee same thing at times here.  Cold weather...Big Games....and we still got to two Super Bowls, and now more to come.    This is non-news.

[amfootball]

Denver fans have every right to question whether this team has the mettle to win the big game. With blow outs to the Hawks in Feb and now the Pats with the D letting up 43 in both games is reason to worry. Elway specifically retooled the defense in response to what happened in the Super Bowl and his D was shredded by Brady a lot worse than even Russell Wilson did in the SB as so much of the Hawks offense came off of Bronco miscues. Also STs scores in both games and now no Prater either. Also of concern is the Denver O being physically beaten again both up front and in the secondary.

 

That all being said, I fully expect Denver to be there contending come January ...

[21isSuperman]

Why?  Because John Fox is not a good coach.  It seems like he doesn't really do much and just follows the team instead of leading them.  I'm curious to see what he actually does during the week.  He doesn't have his teams prepared (see: Super Bowl, turning the music volume down during practice).  Denver will be competing in January, as amfootball said, but I think that's only due to them having Peyton.  As has been the case his whole career, a mediocre coaching staff is holding Peyton back.

 

However, I don't think there is reason to panic in Denver.  Peyton is Peyton and will win that division.  You lost to arguably the best team in the NFL in their home stadium.  This same situation happened last year and the Broncos won in the playoffs.  There's still half a season plus playoffs left to play, so no need to panic

[dynasty13]

Why?  Because John Fox is not a good coach.  It seems like he doesn't really do much and just follows the team instead of leading them.  I'm curious to see what he actually does during the week.  He doesn't have his teams prepared (see: Super Bowl, turning the music volume down during practice).  Denver will be competing in January, as amfootball said, but I think that's only due to them having Peyton.  As has been the case his whole career, a mediocre coaching staff is holding Peyton back.

 

However, I don't think there is reason to panic in Denver.  Peyton is Peyton and will win that division.  You lost to arguably the best team in the NFL in their home stadium.  This same situation happened last year and the Broncos won in the playoffs.  There's still half a season plus playoffs left to play, so no need to panic

 

Can I just ask a question? 

 

Why is it always a case of 'the coaching staff holding Peyton back'???

 

Of his last three coaches, he's gone to the Superbowl with each of them. I don't know...I mean, so many Colts fans over the years have praised Manning for essentially being a coach himself out there...but when they lose then all of a sudden he's somehow being held back?

[ColtStronger]

I never really thought John Fox was that great of a coach either.  When he was out last year, I think the Broncos played their best football with Del Rio running the team. 

[21isSuperman]

Can I just ask a question? 

 

Why is it always a case of 'the coaching staff holding Peyton back'???

 

Of his last three coaches, he's gone to the Superbowl with each of them. I don't know...I mean, so many Colts fans over the years have praised Manning for essentially being a coach himself out there...but when they lose then all of a sudden he's somehow being held back?

To ask Peyton to do the things a coach does is too much.  Dungy's defensive system was way too passive and only worked with very specific players.  Peyton can't tell Dungy what kind of defense to run.  Caldwell looked like he didn't do much of anything.  I don't recall him talking to players on the bench, making in-game adjustments, anything like that.  And Larry Coyer's defense was not fun to watch.  With Denver, Fox just seems like he doesn't know what he's doing.  He's getting by riding Peyton's coattails, making it seem like things are going well just because he is winning.  He turned down the noise level in practice before the Super Bowl.  Seattle fans are notoriously loud and travel well.  His team looked completely lost in the Super Bowl.  The offense was afraid of getting hit, the defense couldn't cover anything, it was just ugly.  What have Dungy, Fox, or Caldwell done to warrant them as being good coaches?  I think Peyton has had to win despite the coaches, but that eventually catches up with you.

[dynasty13]

To ask Peyton to do the things a coach does is too much.  Dungy's defensive system was way too passive and only worked with very specific players.  Peyton can't tell Dungy what kind of defense to run.  Caldwell looked like he didn't do much of anything.  I don't recall him talking to players on the bench, making in-game adjustments, anything like that.  And Larry Coyer's defense was not fun to watch.  With Denver, Fox just seems like he doesn't know what he's doing.  He's getting by riding Peyton's coattails, making it seem like things are going well just because he is winning.  He turned down the noise level in practice before the Super Bowl.  Seattle fans are notoriously loud and travel well.  His team looked completely lost in the Super Bowl.  The offense was afraid of getting hit, the defense couldn't cover anything, it was just ugly.  What have Dungy, Fox, or Caldwell done to warrant them as being good coaches?  I think Peyton has had to win despite the coaches, but that eventually catches up with you.

 

Who actually asks him to do all that, though? Certainly not every coach the guy has ever had has been a dope. Maybe the problem is that he IS doing too much. I for one think he needs to learn how to do well when the conditions are less than perfect for him....just like every other quarterback in the league has to. The guy is an unbelievable quarterback and one of the best to ever play, but whether it be the weather, noise, whatever it is...the guy seems to struggle whenever he isn't playing in a silent environment with a comfortable temperature. Unfortunately that's been his M.O. his entire career, and THAT isn't do to poor coaching.

[GoPats]

Who actually asks him to do all that, though? Certainly not every coach the guy has ever had has been a dope. Maybe the problem is that he IS doing too much. I for one think he needs to learn how to do well when the conditions are less than perfect for him....just like every other quarterback in the league has to. The guy is an unbelievable quarterback and one of the best to ever play, but whether it be the weather, noise, whatever it is...the guy seems to struggle whenever he isn't playing in a silent environment with a comfortable temperature. Unfortunately that's been his M.O. his entire career, and THAT isn't do to poor coaching.

 

A Felger-esque assessment. One I happen to agree with. If everything is "right," Manning is practically unstoppable. But if he's uncomfortable in any way - be it weather, more pressure than he's used to, crowd noise, etc - he doesn't seem to always have the ability to overcome it. Not all the time anyway. 

 

I think that's why he had that mini-rant about the scoreboard operator a couple of weeks ago. The conditions around him, factors both within and not within his control, seem to have a big impact on him. 

[Cnr324]

I blame coach Fox he's too conservative ! I will never get over that Baltimore game 2 years ago . Sure you can blame Rahim Moore , but I knew we were going to lose when coach FOX ran the ball on 3rd and 6 with Ronnie Hillman . Baltimore was playing the run and Fox told Manning to keep running it ! What's the point of signing Manning when you're going to run foxball?! Ugh I'm tired of coach Fox

[amfootball]

A Felger-esque assessment. One I happen to agree with. If everything is "right," Manning is practically unstoppable. But if he's uncomfortable in any way - be it weather, more pressure than he's used to, crowd noise, etc - he doesn't seem to always have the ability to overcome it. Not all the time anyway. 

 

I think that's why he had that mini-rant about the scoreboard operator a couple of weeks ago. The conditions around him, factors both within and not within his control, seem to have a big impact on him. 

Revis said after the game that the Pats D knew exactly what the Broncos were going to do. Not that this is a surprise as Manning always runs his Indy offense and the key to stopping it has never changed - be physical with his receivers and pressure him up the middle. This is the main reason I believe Bill has such a great record against him. If Bill knows what you are going to do, you are pretty much dead in the water.

 

Manning has never had a plan B when things go off schedule which IMO has contributed in large part to his playoff record where good teams routinely take you out of your comfort zone.

[GoPats]

Revis said after the game that the Pats D knew exactly what the Broncos were going to do. Not that this is a surprise as Manning always runs his Indy offense and the key to stopping it has never changed - be physical with his receivers and pressure him up the middle. This is the main reason I believe Bill has such a great record against him. If Bill knows what you are going to do, you are pretty much dead in the water.

 

Manning has never had a plan B when things go off schedule which IMO has contributed in large part to his playoff record where good teams routinely take you out of your comfort zone.

 

Player versatility is the key. The Patriots rushed four almost exclusively but alternated those four from the same formation. Nink and Ayers, along with Hightower and Collins, were dropping in and out of coverage and the pass rush. 

 

It felt like the first time in a long time where the game-plan had a huge impact. 

[amfootball]

Player versatility is the key. The Patriots rushed four almost exclusively but alternated those four from the same formation. Nink and Ayers, along with Hightower and Collins, were dropping in and out of coverage and the pass rush. 

 

It felt like the first time in a long time where the game-plan had a huge impact. 

For sure. This is the most versatile and deep secondary and LB core that Bill has ever had at its disposal. I am anxious to see what happens when Jones is back. He will allow Bill to be even more creative with the LBs.

[21isSuperman]

Who actually asks him to do all that, though? Certainly not every coach the guy has ever had has been a dope. Maybe the problem is that he IS doing too much. I for one think he needs to learn how to do well when the conditions are less than perfect for him....just like every other quarterback in the league has to. The guy is an unbelievable quarterback and one of the best to ever play, but whether it be the weather, noise, whatever it is...the guy seems to struggle whenever he isn't playing in a silent environment with a comfortable temperature. Unfortunately that's been his M.O. his entire career, and THAT isn't do to poor coaching.

I think his struggles outdoors have been overstated.  He played pretty well outdoors in cold conditions during the playoffs last year.  I think the whole "Peyton can't play in cold weather/outdoors" thing started after those tough playoff losses to New England in the early 2000s.  However, keep in mind those games were against a great coach/team with a very good defense.  I think a lot goes into it, though.  Peyton plays well, but his teams aren't built for the playoffs.  Rarely did the Colts have a good defense and a good running game.  Those two things are key to winning in the playoffs, in my opinion.

[dynasty13]

I think his struggles outdoors have been overstated.  He played pretty well outdoors in cold conditions during the playoffs last year.  I think the whole "Peyton can't play in cold weather/outdoors" thing started after those tough playoff losses to New England in the early 2000s.  However, keep in mind those games were against a great coach/team with a very good defense.  I think a lot goes into it, though.  Peyton plays well, but his teams aren't built for the playoffs.  Rarely did the Colts have a good defense and a good running game.  Those two things are key to winning in the playoffs, in my opinion.

 

I seem to remember it being pretty warm in Denver for the playoffs last year...

[Qwiz]

Big trouble in little Denver? Stay tuned folks.

[21isSuperman]

I seem to remember it being pretty warm in Denver for the playoffs last year...

I don't recall, it may have been.  I still think his struggles against cold weather have been overstated.  Going back to the trouble in Denver, I don't think there is.  It's one loss.  Sure, it was against arguably the best team in the league, but it's one loss.  That same team appeared to be a mess after a game against the Chiefs, but look at where they are now.  They'll be fine, they'll win their division and make the playoffs

[BOTT]

A Felger-esque assessment. One I happen to agree with. If everything is "right," Manning is practically unstoppable. But if he's uncomfortable in any way - be it weather, more pressure than he's used to, crowd noise, etc - he doesn't seem to always have the ability to overcome it. Not all the time anyway. 

 

I think that's why he had that mini-rant about the scoreboard operator a couple of weeks ago. The conditions around him, factors both within and not within his control, seem to have a big impact on him.

I think he has more trouble overcoming it now because he basically has the arm strength of Chad Pennington. It seems as though a large percentage of his passes rely on excellent timing. I swear, every time he throws a to the sideline I think it's going to be picked because they ball seemingly stays in the air forever. His arm looks fairly strong if he has his feet planted and he's throwing down the middle, but other times.....ouch.

[BOTT]

I think his struggles outdoors have been overstated.  He played pretty well outdoors in cold conditions during the playoffs last year.  I think the whole "Peyton can't play in cold weather/outdoors" thing started after those tough playoff losses to New England in the early 2000s.  However, keep in mind those games were against a great coach/team with a very good defense.  I think a lot goes into it, though.  Peyton plays well, but his teams aren't built for the playoffs.  Rarely did the Colts have a good defense and a good running game.  Those two things are key to winning in the playoffs, in my opinion.

In the past I think it was over blown, but I think he now has a hard time in bitter cold due to his hand and wind due to his arm strength.

[GoPats]

I think he has more trouble overcoming it now because he basically has the arm strength of Chad Pennington. It seems as though a large percentage of his passes rely on excellent timing. I swear, every time he throws a to the sideline I think it's going to be picked because they ball seemingly stays in the air forever. His arm looks fairly strong if he has his feet planted and he's throwing down the middle, but other times.....ouch.

 

When Denver hits on those crossers they're killers... he drops the ball in there right in stride, and almost all of those guys can run and get YAC. Where he looked like he was struggling on Sunday (especially with the wind) were those deeper out routes. Lots of contested footballs... I think the Patriots had nine passes defended and two picks, which is a real high number for any QB. Good observation on that. 

 

He also held the ball for an uncomfortably long time, for him... Patriots appeared to have good coverage on a lot of plays. He still hit a couple of nice comebacks to Sanders on those, but it seemed like the defense caught onto it a little (Butler breaking up a 4th quarter pass for Sanders comes to mind). Pats secondary is looking good but they have some big tests coming up with Luck, Rodgers, etc. 

[Moose Of Woe]

The passing attack (and run defense) are the least of Denver's problems. Against NE the passing attack and run defense were the only things that looked respectable. Being able to pass when you can't run to save your life isn't exactly child's play. He had one bad pick and a few overthrows in spite of no run attack to speak of.

 

NE wasn't able to run all that well either, but the difference was Denver couldn't cover for jack squat. Credit Brady and the offense for that at the same time.

 

Bad passing defense,  bad special teams, and only being able to run the ball for a whopping 40 yards against certain teams are far from the QB's fault. Bad coaches who make next to zero adjustments when the current "gameplan" is getting you killed are just that - bad coaches. See the 4 man rush on Brady failing to get there for most of the night and yet they kept on doing it.

[Synthetic]

Denver fans have nothing to complain about. If they're going to complain when they have a team that has been to the playoffs now for 4 years in a row, including a Super Bowl they choked in, and having Peyton Manning, they are among the most unappreciative sports fans out there. Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo fans would give anything for just 1 year of success like that.

[NewColtsFan]

Denver fans have nothing to complain about. If they're going to complain when they have a team that has been to the playoffs now for 4 years in a row, including a Super Bowl they choked in, and having Peyton Manning, they are among the most unappreciative sports fans out there. Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo fans would give anything for just 1 year of success like that.

 

What are you ranting at now?

 

Fans always complain over a loss.    Always.

 

It's part of being a fan.

 

It's why someone invented internet fan message boards.....   so people could complain after losses and celebrate after wins.

 

Denver fans are among the best in football.    But it's no surprise that some would be unhappy after a loss.   That's what happens.

 

And when did Denver "choke" in the Superbowl"?      You think they would've won if they had played better?

 

Seattle was the much, much better team and it showed on the field.   

 

It sure would help if you learned something about football.    Anything about football.

 

Next you're going to tell me that Bill O"Brien is doing a bad job in Houston and that Matt Schaub is having the last laugh in Oakland.        No.    Wait.     You already did that........   

[Synthetic]

Can I just ask a question? 

 

Why is it always a case of 'the coaching staff holding Peyton back'???

 

Of his last three coaches, he's gone to the Superbowl with each of them. I don't know...I mean, so many Colts fans over the years have praised Manning for essentially being a coach himself out there...but when they lose then all of a sudden he's somehow being held back?

 

 

Because with Manning, it's always everyone's fault except him when he plays poorly. That includes scoreboard workers, loud fans, Reggie Wayne, the offensive line, and every coach not named Tony Dungy (he gets blamed too, except for the 2006 season).

[Synthetic]

What are you ranting at now?

 

Fans always complain over a loss.    Always.

 

It's part of being a fan.

 

It's why someone invented internet fan message boards.....   so people could complain after losses and celebrate after wins.

 

Denver fans are among the best in football.    But it's no surprise that some would be unhappy after a loss.   That's what happens.

 

And when did Denver "choke" in the Superbowl"?      You think they would've won if they had played better?

 

Seattle was the much, much better team and it showed on the field.   

 

It sure would help if you learned something about football.    Anything about football.

 

Next you're going to tell me that Bill O"Brien is doing a bad job in Houston and that Matt Schaub is having the last laugh in Oakland.        No.    Wait.     You already did that........   

 

 

You love replying to my posts everyday with a long rant (but I'm the one that does the ranting, ya know?) hoping I read them, you got your wish granted today.

[southwest1]

A Felger-esque assessment. One I happen to agree with. If everything is "right," Manning is practically unstoppable. But if he's uncomfortable in any way - be it weather, more pressure than he's used to, crowd noise, etc - he doesn't seem to always have the ability to overcome it. Not all the time anyway. 

 

I think that's why he had that mini-rant about the scoreboard operator a couple of weeks ago. The conditions around him, factors both within and not within his control, seem to have a big impact on him. 

You make an intriguing point GP. Football is all about how you handle adversity meaning what does the QB do when the wheels fall off & things don't progress flawlessly? This is why I get so upset when I see Manning on the sidelines with his helmet on sitting there quietly as the other team marches down the field. Get angry Peyton. Tell your offense to focus & not to lay down. We have work to do & this game is far from over. 

 

Yes, I have seen 18 lead miraculous comeback drives, but his passive demeanor when the Broncos get down big time in games really bothers me. I'm not questioning his drive to win or his fierce competitiveness just his often defeatist body language. You don't think your other teammates can read that? Again, I not questioning his skill set or incredible preparation just his ability to rally his troops when conditions/game dynamics aren't perfect. 

 

Remember when Peyton was fined during that Texans game & fans were shocked & pleasantly surprised by that act of boldness defending his teammate Wes Welker after that hit because it was so out of character for Manning? Where is that guy & why did he go back into his gentlemen like shell? Unleash that aggression man. "Get P.O.ed for Greatness" as LB Ray Rice often says.

 

Football & life is not about what happens to you, but how you respond to what happens to you. Do you accept defeat or bite, scratch, claw, & go down swinging?  If I were to encapsulate the problem, I would say this: Confidence is easy to display when your team is winning, but not so simple to project when your team is losing. 

 

Leading by example sounds noble, but a swift kick in the caboose does wonders as in "Listen men, quit moping around & hanging your heads. We didn't work our tails off in training camp & lift all those weights to go out like this. So buck up, stop belly aching, get your mind right, & win this darn game!" 

[southwest1]

In the past I think it was over blown, but I think he now has a hard time in bitter cold due to his hand and wind due to his arm strength.

From my perspective, 18 has more zip on the ball then when he 1st arrived in Denver. There has been significant velocity improvement there. AMF said this more than once & it bears repeating getting rid of RB Knowshon Moreno was a mistake. Moreno ran well between the tackles, racked up the tough grind it out yards, & he's always performed well against the Patriots Manning's chief nemesis. If you give Peyton a scat speed back in conjunction with a workhorse back who can get roughly 4 yards per carry, some questionable passes to the sidelines or not 18 can still beat about 28-30 teams in this league without much difficulty.

 

The city of Denver still expects Manning to carry their team & generate large leads early most of the time. I have yet to see Ware, Ward, & Miller dig the Broncos out of a hole when the offense is misfiring or not generating TD's. That reality places an enormous burden on Peyton. He doesn't have the luxury of an off day score board wise. His running game is not tremendous & his Special Teams is anything but special. 

 

My point here is this: Peyton is viewed as the lone savior to score TDs, win games, & erase weaknesses on their roster week in; week out. Manning knows or has yet to see the defense or special teams come to his rescue this season from a large deficit. That awareness reeks havoc with a QB's psyche over time meaning you're on your own as an offensive unit & no cavalry is coming to save the day. 

 

That's why I enjoy examining the chemistry of a team, their mental toughness, & seeing if 1 unit can carry another unit just in case your field general is suffering on game day. 

[southwest1]

I seem to remember it being pretty warm in Denver for the playoffs last year...

 

 

  I still think his struggles against cold weather have been overstated.  

This is what I find funny: In the NYC Meadowlands during the SB against the Seahawks, the weather included no precipitation of any kind & Manning lost. In 2004, during the AFC Championship Game at Foxboro Manning lost miserably in the snow. But in 2006, Peyton beat the Bears in down-pouring rain.

 

We have 3 weather conditions there: Snow, rain, & perfect conditions. To me, if you wanna get technical about it & a little sarcastic, I'd say temperature has little to do with Manning's SB successes or failures. Translation: Why not simply say that rain is Peyton's Lombardi lucky charm?   And before you say that Rex Grossman sucked, remember that the weather conditions were the same for both QBs. 1 rose above them & the other 1 didn't. 

 

[amfootball]

This is what I find funny: In the NYC Meadowlands during the SB against the Seahawks, the weather included no precipitation of any kind & Manning lost. In 2004, during the AFC Championship Game at Foxboro Manning lost miserably in the snow. But in 2006, Peyton beat the Bears in down-pouring rain.

 

We have 3 weather conditions there: Snow, rain, & perfect conditions. To me, if you wanna get technical about it & a little sarcastic, I'd say temperature has little to do with Manning's SB successes or failures. Translation: Why not simply say that rain is Peyton's Lombardi lucky charm?   And before you say that Rex Grossman sucked, remember that the weather conditions were the same for both QBs. 1 rose above them & the other 1 didn't. 

 

He is 0-4 in the playoffs in games that have been played under 40 degrees. That being said, I think it has been overstated somewhat. I agree with Blood that at this point poor weather conditions make it harder for him to throw the ball because of the neck surgeries and decreased strength in his arm and grip. If he is not able to set his feet than his throws lose velocity and hang especially to the sideline. And that happens in good weather as well.

[oldunclemark]

I never really thought John Fox was that great of a coach either.  When he was out last year, I think the Broncos played their best football with Del Rio running the team.

Have never understood the criticism of FOX....it always gos back to befor ehe wa sin Denver which isn't relevenat

...the fact that FOX wasn't on the field had no effect n them one way or another..

Like every town...folks blame the coach of the coordinators.

Denver was 13-3 in 2012...13-3 in 2013...and with a tougher scheduled (NFC West) they're looking at 12-4 or 13-3 this season...

Fans blow in the wind from week to week,..The Broncos have lost at Seattle and NE

they're fine

[oldunclemark]

I blame coach Fox he's too conservative ! I will never get over that Baltimore game 2 years ago . Sure you can blame Rahim Moore , but I knew we were going to lose when coach FOX ran the ball on 3rd and 6 with Ronnie Hillman . Baltimore was playing the run and Fox told Manning to keep running it ! What's the point of signing Manning when you're going to run foxball?! Ugh I'm tired of coach Fox

This is what I'm talking about..

Denver had that game won with a minute to play and the safety made an unthinking error..

Peyton can audible out of any play he wants..I think we know that

You cant logically blame John Fox for that..unless you had problems with Fox before he came to Denver

[dynasty13]

This is what I find funny: In the NYC Meadowlands during the SB against the Seahawks, the weather included no precipitation of any kind & Manning lost. In 2004, during the AFC Championship Game at Foxboro Manning lost miserably in the snow. But in 2006, Peyton beat the Bears in down-pouring rain.

 

We have 3 weather conditions there: Snow, rain, & perfect conditions. To me, if you wanna get technical about it & a little sarcastic, I'd say temperature has little to do with Manning's SB successes or failures. Translation: Why not simply say that rain is Peyton's Lombardi lucky charm?   And before you say that Rex Grossman sucked, remember that the weather conditions were the same for both QBs. 1 rose above them & the other 1 didn't. 

 

 

Because rain is one thing, cold is another. The guy cant play in the cold. That's why Denver elected to have the day game in the AFCCG last year, and it was a beautiful day for him. Miami rain is simply not the same as snow or cold.

[ztboiler]

To ask Peyton to do the things a coach does is too much.  Dungy's defensive system was way too passive and only worked with very specific players.  Peyton can't tell Dungy what kind of defense to run.  Caldwell looked like he didn't do much of anything.  I don't recall him talking to players on the bench, making in-game adjustments, anything like that.  And Larry Coyer's defense was not fun to watch.  With Denver, Fox just seems like he doesn't know what he's doing.  He's getting by riding Peyton's coattails, making it seem like things are going well just because he is winning.  He turned down the noise level in practice before the Super Bowl.  Seattle fans are notoriously loud and travel well.  His team looked completely lost in the Super Bowl.  The offense was afraid of getting hit, the defense couldn't cover anything, it was just ugly.  What have Dungy, Fox, or Caldwell done to warrant them as being good coaches?  I think Peyton has had to win despite the coaches, but that eventually catches up with you.

Well, Dungy is a proven commodity.  I don't like how his defensive scheme fit as a complement to Peyton and the offense, but Dungy is a great coach - he proved that in Tampa, so we can't say he rode Peyton's coat tails.

 

I tend to agree that the Bronchos are giving up something with Fox as the coach, but we also have to give some consideration to the dynamics of coaching a team that has Manning as the leader.  Fox is probably a really good fit in most ways for Manning, but what Manning needs and what Fox probably lacks, is that Phil Jackson quality.  Not easy to find.

[southwest1]

He is 0-4 in the playoffs in games that have been played under 40 degrees. That being said, I think it has been overstated somewhat. I agree with Blood that at this point poor weather conditions make it harder for him to throw the ball because of the neck surgeries and decreased strength in his arm and grip. If he is not able to set his feet than his throws lose velocity and hang especially to the sideline. And that happens in good weather as well.

I gonna be honest here. I have never seen your guy, Tom Brady, struggle in bad weather particularly snow. This is why I credit you so much with your excellent observation that RB Knowshon Moreno should have been kept in Denver essentially for sloppy snow games where Peyton can't set his feet. Either that or Denver should have drafted Eddie Lacy instead of Montee Ball. Both backs were available at the same time when the Broncos were on the board. 

 

A QB can counteract a heavier ball in bad weather with a grind it out running game. Plus, it keeps Manning from being moved off his spot if you force opposing safeties in the secondary to creep forward. Remember the Broncos have 1 of the best offensive lines in football & if you convince the safety to move down into the box because your back can chew up yards between the tackles it sets up the play action pass perfectly. NE is a special case though because of DT Vince Wilfork's unique ability to clog up the middle when trying to run the ball. Most teams are NOT lucky enough to have a beast like #75 in their midst. A lot of fans gloss over that fact: The asset Vince really is.  

 

I have more respect now or even last season when he was hurt because opposing backs ran like crazy against the Patriots without him in there to shut down the ground game. Vince is a HOF defensive player to me because of what his presence means: Stopping backs dead in their tracks.

[southwest1]

Because rain is one thing, cold is another. The guy cant play in the cold. That's why Denver elected to have the day game in the AFCCG last year, and it was a beautiful day for him. Miami rain is simply not the same as snow or cold.

Inclement weather technically qualifies as wind, rain, snow, & fog. Don't try to dismiss Peyton's SB ring simply because rain fell instead of snow okay. Thank you. 

 

Inclement weather means "unpleasant weather which is stormy, rainy, or snowy" or weather that is unpleasantly cold & wet. I don't minimize your QB's Championship victories ever. Please grant me the same courtesy. 

[TAPLOOK]

Sounds a lot like Indy used to... what's the common denominator?

[TAPLOOK]

Denver got their butts whipped by a better team. I think there is a very good chance that Denver is one and done come the playoffs. Peyton's arm is rubber and is getting stretched by the week.

[buffalo34]

Because rain is one thing, cold is another. The guy cant play in the cold. That's why Denver elected to have the day game in the AFCCG last year, and it was a beautiful day for him. Miami rain is simply not the same as snow or cold.

 

Doesn't the AFCCG and NFCCG game times alternate every year though? Like I think this year the NFC will have their CG first and then the AFC second. Before last year, the NFC had their game first (SF-ATL) while the AFC game was the night game (BAL-NE).

[southwest1]

Denver got their butts whipped by a better team. I think there is a very good chance that Denver is one and done come the playoffs. Peyton's arm is rubber and is getting stretched by the week. 

I will grant you that Patriots completely dominated the Broncos. I won't argue that, but just because Denver got schooled in the latest head to head match up, I wouldn't put any upper hand in the next Playoff game for the Pats myself. BB is famous for saying that every game takes on a life of it's own. 

 

NE got steamrolled by the KC Chiefs did you get your butt whipped by a better team too? Hades no. 1 loss in a 1 sided game doesn't serve as "common denominator" down the road. Yeah I know you were implying that 18 chokes in the snow. Does that mean Brady is allergic to the NY Giants pass rush & without Vince Wilfork on the other side to give him the ball back Brady can't win SuperBowls? 

 

If you wanna say that Manning's arm strength isn't the same as 2004-2009, I can roll with that because it's a valid point. But Peyton's biggest asset is his ability to anticipate throws & drop them where they need to be especially on slant & go routes.  I will grant you that on crossing routes across the middle Manning got WR Austin Collie hurt with high ball placement sometimes. I won't lie about that.