Praise Pep Hamilton?

[SteelCityColt]

There's a very light article on ESPN by Mike Wells about how well Pep has been doing this year. Although the article itself isn't anything mind blowing I though it might be nice to have a discussion about Pep from a positive opening rather than the myriad of Fire Pep cries we've had. 

 

Article itself:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/145255/pep-hamilton-has-made-the-colts-the-nfls-best-offensive-team

 

I think people on here underestimated how much injuries affected what our O was able to do last year and it's only this season we're starting to see the real O that Pep wants to run. What I think is really is positive is with the youth on O now there is scope for us to continue to improve, especially in terms of consistency. 

[CoachLite]

Evaluating Pep Hamilton's role as Colt's Offensive Coordinator is a very complex and complicated thing. Most simply boil down that complexity into two categories: Strategies (say, season-plan or game-plan) and tactics (plays, play-calling, formations, featured players ...). I have often been critical of Hamilton's strategic vision, but I actually appreciate some of his tactics (though some of the play-calling still puzzles me). How much of that is Pep's doing?

Pep Hamilton is generally a good offensive tactician. I'll leave it up to all of you other fans, the front office, and the players as to whether he is a good Offensive Coordinator.

[James Ducheteau]

I think the biggest thing to remember is he is young to the NFL. I imagine its not much different than when a hot shot rookie comes into the league thinking hes going to blow it up and then finds out that everybody is really good and really fast. Plays that you've called for years and had great success with suddenly don't  work as well because NFL defenses are in fact incredibly talented and fast. It's the coaches who learn and processes this information quickly and then adapt accordingly that really thrive in the NFL. In my estimation we just have not seen enough from him to gauge his ability yet. He is still in the process of learning what parts of his style actually translate to an NFL game. That being said i do like what he what he is doing this season, if he can reduce the number of negative plays and maintain good balance then it looks like he may be fine for now. 

[SteelCityColt]

Evaluating Pep Hamilton's role as Colt's Offensive Coordinator is a very complex and complicated thing. Most simply boil down that complexity into two categories: Strategies (say, season-plan or game-plan) and tactics (plays, play-calling, formations, featured players ...). I have often been critical of Hamilton's strategic vision, but I actually appreciate some of his tactics (though some of the play-calling still puzzles me). How much of that is Pep's doing?

Pep Hamilton is generally a good offensive tactician. I'll leave it up to all of you other fans, the front office, and the players as to whether he is a good Offensive Coordinator.

 

I think part of the issue on here was people are can be a little black or white in their viewpoints. He's either awful and must be fired or the best OC ever and should be never be doubted. There's been very little actual discussion on the make up of his plays or examining the concepts (I would love to but I honestly don't have the X and O's talent to), but a lot of criticising of play calling from the pedestal of hindsight. I'm fairly sure that in the examples that really seem to rile people Chuck would have had a input to given the game situation I don't think people actually looked at the plays called (beyond it's a run or it's a pass) but just looked at the result and passed judgement on that.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, and I know it's counter intuitive, but the result of a single play doesn't necessarily mean it's a good bad play or play call. That sort of judgement can only be made over a larger sample and I think so far Pep is doing pretty well.

[Nobody]

Thank god the ridiculous hate for him has died down, I think he's done a very good job. You won't find a single fanbase who doesn't get mad at their OC for some playcalls. (which would make sense since we have the best offense and we still complain.) The reason for that is that not all plays work, and that's how people judge coaches, fairly or not. If he goes for it on 4th, he's either a genius or an *, no in between.

[PeterBowman]

new coaches sometimes need time to develope and learn, same as new players.

[TKnight24]

Thank god the ridiculous hate for him has died down, I think he's done a very good job. You won't find a single fanbase who doesn't get mad at their OC for some playcalls. (which would make sense since we have the best offense and we still complain.) The reason for that is that not all plays work, and that's how people judge coaches, fairly or not. If he goes for it on 4th, he's either a genius or an *, no in between.

I ate my crow on Mr. Hamilton in this thread

http://forums.colts.com/topic/31965-week-7-previewseason-review-thus-far-tknight24-edition/

Still however do not like that power set with the pulling G, it just doesn't work. Need to be rid of that entirely imo

[Coffeedrinker]

IMO, Hamilton is still too predictable.  For example, the Colts don't run the ball twice in a row.  So after a run, the D knows it's going to be a pass and they can dial up the pressure or call a nice zone coverage from the back 7.

 

He also seems to compartmentalized, what I mean by that is he seems to draw up plays that will work against certain defensive alignment but he doesn't seem to draw up plays that force the D into a certain alignment.  For example he does play X for use against a 2 deep zone with the CBs covering man. But he doesn't seem to have the mind set that if he calls plays Y, Z and A earlier then that will force the D to play a 2 deep zone with the CBs covering man in this situation and then the Colts can exploit by calling play X.  And I'm not talking about razzle dazzle type plays or strange formations.  For example the unbalanced line formation.  That is an excellent formation and has given the Colts some good results but he needs to do more than just a counter run to the weakside.  Run some to the strong side or do a play action pass off of it (I realize Luck is not good at selling the PAP and that may be a reason why the Colts don't use it a lot but he also won't get better at it if the Colts don't do it often)

 

I know what I mean in my mind, I don't know if I'm explaining it properly.

 

Outside of that, I think he does a good job of developing and calling plays that take advantage of the players he has and their individual strengths.  I think he has done a good job working with the position coaches to develop those players so they can make plays when given a chance.  I think he has done a very good job this year of studying the opposing team and developing a game plan.

[Derakynn]

They may know we are going to pass, but they also know when Trich is going to run. Generally our pass offense obviously can't be stopped whether they know it is happening or not. Much easier if you know Trich is just going to force it up the middle. Which he would do if he called 2 runs in a row, and it'd be third and long. He may have realized that by now to an extent ( did it in Philly game and it screwed us)

[Coffeedrinker]

They may know we are going to pass, but they also know when Trich is going to run. Generally our pass offense obviously can't be stopped whether they know it is happening or not. Much easier if you know Trich is just going to force it up the middle. Which he would do if he called 2 runs in a row, and it'd be third and long. He may have realized that by now to an extent ( did it in Philly game and it screwed us)

Except reality has not shown that.  In the few times they have done it it has lead to very makeable 3rd downs.  The Philly game is a perfect example... it was 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 6, that was with Bradshaw and Philly knowing the Colts were going to run.  Any O in the league with a competent QB would take 3rd and 6 in that situation every time.

[ColtStronger]

I for one think Pep is a great offensive coordinator.  He has a good strategy and a healthy balance of running/passing even when the run game is hindering our performance, he keeps with it, because in the end it makes defenses still focus on the run, which opens up our air assault even more. 

 

The only knock I have against his play calling is sometimes we run it on obvious running situations.  They line up like were gonna run this ball down your throat, we don't get a push upfront, then our RB's get stuffed in the backfield.  I think in those situations we should do a P.A. rollout and let our WR's or TE's go make plays.  If nobody is open Luck can still make a play with his legs since he is already on the move.  We are a passing team.  Yes, the Colts can be physical, but our run blocking is in the latter half of the league.  The difference between our run game and pass game is we can actually line up and tell them were passing the football getting a 1st down and theres nothing you can do about it!  I don't care if its 3rd/4th in short or on the goal line I believe we should keep the ball in Lucks hand and exploit mismatches with D.A. T.Y. Nicks or Wayne.  Then mix in the runs on 1st and 2nd down to keep the defense honest.

[Derakynn]

Except reality has not shown that. In the few times they have done it it has lead to very makeable 3rd downs. The Philly game is a perfect example... it was 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 6, that was with Bradshaw and Philly knowing the Colts were going to run. Any O in the league with a competent QB would take 3rd and 6 in that situation every time.

2nd half and 4th quarter specifically we couldn't even get 3 yards and were getting stuffed. That happened. We lost. These past 2 games ypc has been below average with like 3.5. Forcing the bad running game does nothing but hurt the offense.

[Coffeedrinker]

2nd half and 4th quarter specifically we couldn't even get 3 yards and were getting stuffed. That happened. We lost. These past 2 games ypc has been below average with like 3.5. Forcing the bad running game does nothing but hurt the offense.

Yet it was still 3rd and 5 or 6.   It's not forcing a bad running game to run the ball two times in a row.

[Derakynn]

Yet it was still 3rd and 5 or 6.   It's not forcing a bad running game to run the ball two times in a row.

Houston game after the fumble return for the touchdown we do the same, go 3 and out. Houston would've gotten the ball back giving them about 5 mins to go down the field. Luckily they had a stupid penalty. Then after they literally run twice again and have to bail themselves out with a pass again anyways. I don't see how you can possibly claim it wouldn't be predictable to run twice when they know we are going to run it even when it is even once. And it's not like we don't ever not run twice. It is much easier top stop a run if you know it is coming. It is not the same for the pass. 

[NewColtsFan]

I'd like to see much, much more use of the tight ends.    All three.

 

In the Houston game,  the announcer was saying that Pagano believes tight end is the biggest mistmatch in the NFL.    Safeties are too small,  linebackers aren't fast enough.

 

OK.....  I'd like to make sure Pep embraces that as well.    And yes,  I know he came from Stanford,  but Allen/Fleener/Doyle aren't getting enough touches/targets.      Use them even more and I believe this offense can be even better.

 

As for Pep.....   I still think it's way too early to render full judgement.     So far, he's doing well.

 

But we all questioned him in weeks 1 and 2 against better opponents.

 

Weeks 3 and 4 were against the JV,  so it's hard to give too much credit.

 

Weeks 4 and 5 were spotty.    Some good, and some not so good.

 

I'd like to wait until more of the season has unfolded....

 

All in all,  Pep's done a good job....    but the season is long......................

[cbear]

Pep should be fired NOW!!!  Oh wait.....

[cbear]

IMO, Hamilton is still too predictable.  For example, the Colts don't run the ball twice in a row.  So after a run, the D knows it's going to be a pass and they can dial up the pressure or call a nice zone coverage from the back 7.

 

He also seems to compartmentalized, what I mean by that is he seems to draw up plays that will work against certain defensive alignment but he doesn't seem to draw up plays that force the D into a certain alignment.  For example he does play X for use against a 2 deep zone with the CBs covering man. But he doesn't seem to have the mind set that if he calls plays Y, Z and A earlier then that will force the D to play a 2 deep zone with the CBs covering man in this situation and then the Colts can exploit by calling play X.  And I'm not talking about razzle dazzle type plays or strange formations.  For example the unbalanced line formation.  That is an excellent formation and has given the Colts some good results but he needs to do more than just a counter run to the weakside.  Run some to the strong side or do a play action pass off of it (I realize Luck is not good at selling the PAP and that may be a reason why the Colts don't use it a lot but he also won't get better at it if the Colts don't do it often)

 

I know what I mean in my mind, I don't know if I'm explaining it properly.

 

Outside of that, I think he does a good job of developing and calling plays that take advantage of the players he has and their individual strengths.  I think he has done a good job working with the position coaches to develop those players so they can make plays when given a chance.  I think he has done a very good job this year of studying the opposing team and developing a game plan.

 

I thought I was the only one that thought that.  Luck usually does not execute the play action very well, so I tend to pay even more attention to it.  It surprised me, but I thought in the last game and the Ravens as well, he did a much better job.  Almost like someone flipped a switch.  There were a couple plays I was watching in slo-mo and I still couldn't tell until the last moment when he pulled the ball out.  Hopefully, he's working on that.

[Coffeedrinker]

Houston game after the fumble return for the touchdown we do the same, go 3 and out. Houston would've gotten the ball back giving them about 5 mins to go down the field. Luckily they had a stupid penalty. Then after they literally run twice again and have to bail themselves out with a pass again anyways. I don't see how you can possibly claim it wouldn't be predictable to run twice when they know we are going to run it even when it is even once. And it's not like we don't ever not run twice. It is much easier top stop a run if you know it is coming. It is not the same for the pass. 

What in the world are you talking about?  After the fumble recovery by Watt, the Colts passed, ran, Pass (although Luck ended up scrambling), pass, run, pass, pass, punt.  There was a holding penalty on the first play so it would have been kind of dumb to run twice when it's 1st and 20.

 

As far as the rest it really makes no sense.  I'm not suggesting they always run two times in a row.  Just that it is something that should be available and so far this year, over 90% of the plays after a run is a pass.

[cbear]

They may know we are going to pass, but they also know when Trich is going to run. Generally our pass offense obviously can't be stopped whether they know it is happening or not. Much easier if you know Trich is just going to force it up the middle. Which he would do if he called 2 runs in a row, and it'd be third and long. He may have realized that by now to an extent ( did it in Philly game and it screwed us)

 

You're not saying they should never run two times in a row are you?

[YellScreamGoColts]

We've won four in a row, I think we are doing just fine..

[gacker65]

I think the biggest thing to remember is he is young to the NFL. I imagine its not much different than when a hot shot rookie comes into the league thinking hes going to blow it up and then finds out that everybody is really good and really fast. Plays that you've called for years and had great success with suddenly don't  work as well because NFL defenses are in fact incredibly talented and fast. It's the coaches who learn and processes this information quickly and then adapt accordingly that really thrive in the NFL. In my estimation we just have not seen enough from him to gauge his ability yet. He is still in the process of learning what parts of his style actually translate to an NFL game. That being said i do like what he what he is doing this season, if he can reduce the number of negative plays and maintain good balance then it looks like he may be fine for now. 

I agree with what you said and want to add this point;  A good game plan can be derailed by inconsistent play by team.

[Derakynn]

You're not saying they should never run two times in a row are you?

I'm saying there is no reason to start doing it more than we already do when it barely ever works and our offense is 1st in the league by doing what we are doing now, not forcing the run like last year. 

[Coffeedrinker]

I thought I was the only one that thought that.  Luck usually does not execute the play action very well, so I tend to pay even more attention to it.  It surprised me, but I thought in the last game and the Ravens as well, he did a much better job.  Almost like someone flipped a switch.  There were a couple plays I was watching in slo-mo and I still couldn't tell until the last moment when he pulled the ball out.  Hopefully, he's working on that.

Yes, he tends to get better at things very quickly.  Next time you watch things, don't watch the ball, watch Luck's body, you will be able to tell every time if it's a hand-off or a PAP pass.

 

But like you said, he's getting better at it

[Coffeedrinker]

I'm saying there is no reason to start doing it more than we already do when it barely ever works and our offense is 1st in the league by doing what we are doing now, not forcing the run like last year. 

Two things wrong with this sentence.  When they do run two times in a row (not in the 4th quarter when the D is expecting the Colts to try to milk the clock) it is usually successful and leads to a 1st down or 3rd and short.  Two the offense is not 1st in the league, unless you are talking about yards only but there is a lot more to an offense than gaining yards.

[masterlock]

They may know we are going to pass, but they also know when Trich is going to run. Generally our pass offense obviously can't be stopped whether they know it is happening or not. Much easier if you know Trich is just going to force it up the middle. Which he would do if he called 2 runs in a row, and it'd be third and long. He may have realized that by now to an extent ( did it in Philly game and it screwed us)

T-Rich up the middle is basically a wasted down. And i don't know why anyone thinks Hamilton doesn't call consecutive run plays, because he has many times this season. Anyway, I think Hamiton has gotten better. Offensive stats have been skewed in virtue of stealing possessions a la Pat McAffee doesn't. And then there's the fact that we have Luck, Hilton, Wayne and Allen--i.e. with talent like that what offensive coordinator WOULDN'T look good.

[James Harden]

Evaluating Pep Hamilton's role as Colt's Offensive Coordinator is a very complex and complicated thing. Most simply boil down that complexity into two categories: Strategies (say, season-plan or game-plan) and tactics (plays, play-calling, formations, featured players ...). I have often been critical of Hamilton's strategic vision, but I actually appreciate some of his tactics (though some of the play-calling still puzzles me). How much of that is Pep's doing?

Pep Hamilton is generally a good offensive tactician. I'll leave it up to all of you other fans, the front office, and the players as to whether he is a good Offensive Coordinator.

Overall I think is doing good these past few weeks with playcalling but I can't give him all the credit. This little article here says Andrew Luck have more control of the Offense this year. He goes to the Line of scrimmage with up to 6 different play options to choose from. Sometimes I think Luck just audible the wrong plays and he needs to learn how to read Defenses better. I give the play calling to Pep and Luck respectively 60-40%.   http://nflspinzone.com/2014/06/19/andrew-luck-will-take-control-los/

[sfergson727]

Like others, I feel Pep has been doing better...still has some improving to do though.  Where it will really show, is has Pep learned his lesson from the first two games?  If we can avoid the same trap that we fell into after building up a huge lead over the Texan's and let the offense go cold, then I will look at Pep with more favorability.

[SteelCityColt]

Another little piece on the Colts O this season as part of Barnwell's weekly write up.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nfl-week-7-picks-it-can-only-go-up-from-here/

[CoachLite]

I thought I was the only one that thought that.  Luck usually does not execute the play action very well, so I tend to pay even more attention to it.  It surprised me, but I thought in the last game and the Ravens as well, he did a much better job.  Almost like someone flipped a switch.  There were a couple plays I was watching in slo-mo and I still couldn't tell until the last moment when he pulled the ball out.  Hopefully, he's working on that.

No, you're not alone. A tactician tends to rely on his tactics, even when they are inconsistent with the strategy (not good). But Hamilton is also a coach. He's supposed to see things in a player that the player cannot see in himself. In this way a coach can help a player become better. No player (or anybody) can reach their potential without a good coach - which BTW goes for coaches, too.

Maybe Pep can become a better coach with coaching.

[krunk]

"It's unheard of how good our offensive coordinator's been calling plays," Bradshaw said of Pep Hamilton. "It's just working out perfectly."

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/colts-insider/2014/10/17/pep-hamiltons-balanced-offense-now-tops-in-the-league/17442969/

 

 

Straight from a players mouth, which is the bet praise that you can receive. I don't need to add my own comments.

[krunk]

Seems like AKColt who is always bashing Pep as a "College OC" is missing from this thread.  Not quite ready to eat your crow huh?

[NagelHausForge]

I like pizza, Steve.... 

[Moopsiepuffs]

It's nice that he's finally realised that he's got an excellent quarterback. Only took him six years or so.

[SteelCityColt]

It's nice that he's finally realised that he's got an excellent quarterback. Only took him six years or so.

Hello Mr Sunshine!

How do you figure on 6 years?

[IndyFan93]

I like pizza, Steve....

She touched my peppy Steve...

[Gavin]

He has shown that he can be flexible and creative in his playcalling I'll say that for sure, Ill have nmore on this later probably

[Coffeedrinker]

T-Rich up the middle is basically a wasted down. And i don't know why anyone thinks Hamilton doesn't call consecutive run plays, because he has many times this season. Anyway, I think Hamiton has gotten better. Offensive stats have been skewed in virtue of stealing possessions a la Pat McAffee doesn't. And then there's the fact that we have Luck, Hilton, Wayne and Allen--i.e. with talent like that what offensive coordinator WOULDN'T look good.

Track it.  No he has not many times this season.  Rarely do the Colts run the ball two times in a row.  ANd it goes back to last season.

 

One time in the Cincy game did they run the ball twice.  The result?

 

Ricahrdson  5 yards

Richardson 10 yards.

 

They need to do that more.

[Smash Mouth]

IMO, Hamilton is still too predictable.  For example, the Colts don't run the ball twice in a row.  So after a run, the D knows it's going to be a pass and they can dial up the pressure or call a nice zone coverage from the back 7.

 

He also seems to compartmentalized, what I mean by that is he seems to draw up plays that will work against certain defensive alignment but he doesn't seem to draw up plays that force the D into a certain alignment.  For example he does play X for use against a 2 deep zone with the CBs covering man. But he doesn't seem to have the mind set that if he calls plays Y, Z and A earlier then that will force the D to play a 2 deep zone with the CBs covering man in this situation and then the Colts can exploit by calling play X.  And I'm not talking about razzle dazzle type plays or strange formations.  For example the unbalanced line formation.  That is an excellent formation and has given the Colts some good results but he needs to do more than just a counter run to the weakside.  Run some to the strong side or do a play action pass off of it (I realize Luck is not good at selling the PAP and that may be a reason why the Colts don't use it a lot but he also won't get better at it if the Colts don't do it often)

 

I know what I mean in my mind, I don't know if I'm explaining it properly.

 

Outside of that, I think he does a good job of developing and calling plays that take advantage of the players he has and their individual strengths.  I think he has done a good job working with the position coaches to develop those players so they can make plays when given a chance.  I think he has done a very good job this year of studying the opposing team and developing a game plan.

I think that when you this much talent you can be predictable in football.  It comes down to execution.  But you're right that he seems to depend upon a situational blue print.  I saw him throw more out of the power formation with a TE playing FB than usual.  Its just that it seemed like the game plan said to throw out of that formation today instead of slamming it into the strong side.  He also ran some counters out of that formation. 

[hawkeyes]

Totally agree with the assessment above ... Even though the play calling is often predictable, if the Colts execute it doesn't matter!

[coltsfanatic24]

Pep has been great since the Bengals game last year. I think he's going to get a lot of offers as a head coach next year and he'll accept one. If I was a GM, Pep would be #1 on my list for coaches to hire.