Our own worst enemy [Merge]

[crazycolt1]

Sloppy all day long. Good way to gut out a win but we should have put it away if Luck does not throw that pick and then the fumble by Bradshaw. Mistakes like that cost games. We were fortunate today.

So how fortunate were the Colts with the Raven mistakes? QBs do throw picks. I think Manning threw 2 yesterday along with his 450 yards and 4 TDs. Bradshaws fumble was a defensive strip. There are very few games played in the NFL that are turnover free.

[crazycolt1]

I made a post on FB during the Colts/Jags game about sloppy play against better teams will spell doom for the Colts. That was a blowout win but there were a lot of missed opportunities even in that game. Today. At home. Starting field position after turnovers. Defense played well. All advantages to the Colts and still couldn't put them away like they should have. A win is a win, its a work in progress but hope they can clean up this stuff as the season wears on   

So you give no credit to a very good Ravens team? Could have some of the Colts problems been caused by playing a good team? This is the NFL. There are very few perfect teams let alone perfect games. Just curious as to why all the negativity when the Colts just won a game when they wasn't favored to win.

[sweetsurrender]

So how fortunate were the Colts with the Raven mistakes? QBs do throw picks. I think Manning threw 2 yesterday along with his 450 yards and 4 TDs. Bradshaws fumble was a defensive strip. There are very few games played in the NFL that are turnover free.

Two TOs in red zone usually cost you a game along with a muff punt.

[Defjamz26]

The most troubling thing was the end game fumble. That's something that has to be cleaned up. It reminds me a lot of the Eagles game. But the fact that the coaching staff did the right thing by running and we still coughed it up, is worrying.

 

The Ravens weren't literally blown out, in terms of score, but in terms of how we played and how they did, they were blown out. Out-played in 2 out of 3 phases of the game.

[xXBOXADDICTx]

You mean like every team should? If every team cleaned up their mistakes, every game would end up in a tie. That's part of football. Enjoy it for what it is for christ sake. A win is a good thing, and we'll never be perfect.

 

Are you related to 1ydandacloudofdust?

Are people really that stupid? The Colts handed the Eagles a win with bonehead mistakes/playcalling. Why call a passing play when running the ball and kicking a FG puts them up 2 scores late vs the Eagles? Yesterday was a similar scenario to the Eagles game. Why is Bradshaw twisting and turning fighting for extra yards when the clock is ticking late and they can pretty much seal it with a FG?  Did I say EVERY team should be perfect? Is it possible for EVERY team to be perfect? Obviously EVERYONE is human so the answer is conspicuous.  And BTW, I believe game/clock management would make your "every game would end in a tie" statement risible.

[xXBOXADDICTx]

I actually agree with you here although I don't want this to be misconstrued as being negative.  The champion that we are striving to become, if we want it to materialize we have to choke the throat at every opportunity.  A win is most certainly a win, but just as a matter of principal we have to come up with more touchdowns out of all those many times we are in the red zone.  If not touchdowns at a minimum it should be field goals instead of game killing turnovers.  We almost had an Eagles game dejaveu there but we kept clawing and pulled it out.  

 

If we have several opportunities to break the game open, then by all means let's be the Grim Reaper.  The Ravens D is certainly the real deal, but I think we should have beaten these guys by at least 14 or more with all the trips in the red zone.  It's no complaint just something to improve on for future contests like the one on Thursday.

Krunk it does'nt matter what you post here, it will be misconstrued by a know-it-all. I thought a forum was a place to discuss concerns and optimisms. Seems everything here is fairy dust and butterflies. Dont you dare agree with me and my thought/concerns... Give credit to those Eagles for causing the bad playcalling that took away the 2 possession lead late in that game, and credit to those Ravens for forcing Bradshaw to fight for inches that mean nothing with a FG and a 2 possession lead with seconds left in the game.

 

[Jason_]

Are people really that stupid? The Colts handed the Eagles a win with bonehead mistakes/playcalling. Why call a passing play when running the ball and kicking a FG puts them up 2 scores late vs the Eagles? Yesterday was a similar scenario to the Eagles game. Why is Bradshaw twisting and turning fighting for extra yards when the clock is ticking late and they can pretty much seal it with a FG?  Did I say EVERY team should be perfect? Is it possible for EVERY team to be perfect? Obviously EVERYONE is human so the answer is conspicuous.  And BTW, I believe game/clock management would make your "every game would end in a tie" statement risible.

 

The only reason some people consider that a bad play call is because it didn't work.  If Luck had completed a pass for a first down, people would be praising the team for playing aggressive and not "playing not to lose".  

[FanFromtheWasteland]

I personally would rather lose s game trying to be aggressive then lose one playing conservative prevent.

[Jason_]

I personally would rather lose s game trying to be aggressive then lose one playing conservative prevent.

 

I agree.  Personally I've always hated the "play for a FG" mindset.  Sure, field goals are usually high percentage but still, anything can happen.  You just can't be a playcaller and be afraid of your QB throwing a pick or your RB fumbling.  You have to trust your guys to execute.  Sure, they're not always going to but you can't be scared as a playcaller imo.

[rockywoj]

The Colts are currently 3-2, but should be 4-1.  Next week's game against Houston is key, though.  A win and they'll be 4-2 and in the division lead.  They have to do a better job in delivering the knock out punch, though, to be sure.

[braveheartcolt]

Every team has to be better at delivering the 'knock out' punch. We do not have exclusive rights on it. I understand we could have done better on some plays, but the criticism being chucked at this team and our coaches is getting out of order by a section of this forum. From now on, If we don't have blow out wins with mistake free football in every game, I'm done with the Colts forever.

[SteelCityColt]

Krunk it does'nt matter what you post here, it will be misconstrued by a know-it-all. I thought a forum was a place to discuss concerns and optimisms. Seems everything here is fairy dust and butterflies. Dont you dare agree with me and my thought/concerns... Give credit to those Eagles for causing the bad playcalling that took away the 2 possession lead late in that game, and credit to those Ravens for forcing Bradshaw to fight for inches that mean nothing with a FG and a 2 possession lead with seconds left in the game.

 

 

I not sure how you can misconstrue calling people stupid or your somewhat disproportionate responses so far in the thread. You seem to see things in a very black and white fashion... you took exception to BHC praising the Ravens D because in your mind it meant that he was saying the Colts didn't make any mistakes which was not at all what he was saying. Good D's bring pressure (and I'm not just talking the pass rush) that can lead to mistakes. Same as a bad O can bring poor execution. There can be a a mix of the two you know?

 

A lot of people are using the wonderful position of hindsight to 2nd guess the play calling. As I asked another poster yesterday out of the 80 plays please tell me which you feel were examples of bad play calling?

[SteelCityColt]

I agree.  Personally I've always hated the "play for a FG" mindset.  Sure, field goals are usually high percentage but still, anything can happen.  You just can't be a playcaller and be afraid of your QB throwing a pick or your RB fumbling.  You have to trust your guys to execute.  Sure, they're not always going to but you can't be scared as a playcaller imo.

 

With the way the league is gearing more and more towards higher scoring you've got to take this mindset. Same as we're seeing teams being more aggressive on 4th down (although there are probability reasons for this too that often get ignored). 

[Smash Mouth]

I agree.  Personally I've always hated the "play for a FG" mindset.  Sure, field goals are usually high percentage but still, anything can happen.  You just can't be a playcaller and be afraid of your QB throwing a pick or your RB fumbling.  You have to trust your guys to execute.  Sure, they're not always going to but you can't be scared as a playcaller imo.

Late in the 4th Q and playing for a FG that puts you up by two scores is very different than doing so in the 1Q at home.  Luck has now thrown 2 bad INTs in the Red Zone late in games, that's not acceptable.  Bradshaw looking for extra yards was also a bad mistake - he was overly aggressive - reckless.  Did you see Bradshaw with a towel over his head afterwards?  He know that he made a rookie mistake.  Cover the ball up, hit the hole and get what the defense gives you.

[Smash Mouth]

With the way the league is gearing more and more towards higher scoring you've got to take this mindset. Same as we're seeing teams being more aggressive on 4th down (although there are probability reasons for this too that often get ignored). 

The Colts are plenty aggressive now - Pep seems to have adjusted and is letting Luck be the focus as he should be.  But the aggression needs to be channelled when they get into the Red Zone.  Their mistakes they are making can cost games i.e. Philly.  If they get 3 against Philly, we lead the division with a chance to put Houston 2 games behind us on Thursday.  Can't give games away in this league.  The Colts have been reckless in the Red Zone.

[alawai]

Yes we had our opportunities but we did not capitalize on it.  You've got to give credit to the Ravens as they stood there and fought back, the Ravens did not back down!

 

Yes we need to clean up our mistakes but as a famous coach once said:  I'll take dull/sloppy victory over an exciting defeat any day!  Let's take the W and build on it!

 

Go Colts!

[SteelCityColt]

Late in the 4th Q and playing for a FG that puts you up by two scores is very different than doing so in the 1Q at home.  Luck has now thrown 2 bad INTs in the Red Zone late in games, that's not acceptable.  Bradshaw looking for extra yards was also a bad mistake - he was overly aggressive - reckless.  Did you see Bradshaw with a towel over his head afterwards?  He know that he made a rookie mistake.  Cover the ball up, hit the hole and get what the defense gives you.

 

While I disagree with the decision to throw it on the 2nd pick yesterday (flushed from the pocket, under pressure, forcing the throw) it's a bit harsh to put it all on luck when Bradshaw got his hands on it and tipped the ball up. The 1st pick really was somewhat unlucky too being hit as you throw. 

 

I actually think our Red Zone play (up until yesterday) had been improving but oddly enough (in terms of the percentage of Redzone opportunities leading to TDs) we were top 10 as an O (56%) , while currently we are 15th so far this season (60%). We lead the league in Redzone attempts per game  (5) and are tied for the number of Redzone TDs per game (3). In reality we are getting into the Redzone more and scoring more when we are there. 

[Smash Mouth]

While I disagree with the decision to throw it on the 2nd pick yesterday (flushed from the pocket, under pressure, forcing the throw) it's a bit harsh to put it all on luck when Bradshaw got his hands on it and tipped the ball up. The 1st pick really was somewhat unlucky too being hit as you throw. 

 

I actually think our Red Zone play (up until yesterday) had been improving but oddly enough (in terms of the percentage of Redzone opportunities leading to TDs) we were top 10 as an O (56%) , while currently we are 15th so far this season (60%). We lead the league in Redzone attempts per game  (5) and are tied for the number of Redzone TDs per game (3). In reality we are getting into the Redzone more and scoring more when we are there. 

My point is he forced a throw when taking the FG is ok at that point of the game.  If Bradshaw catches it, I'm not sure he scores.  Our Red Zone play has been exceptional, I don't take issue with that. We have struggled big time in the Red Zone last year.  But we have had costly mistakes late in games and its already cost us one game.

[SteelCityColt]

My point is he forced a throw when taking the FG is ok at that point of the game.  If Bradshaw catches it, I'm not sure he scores.  Our Red Zone play has been exceptional, I don't take issue with that. We have struggled big time in the Red Zone last year.  But we have had costly mistakes late in games and its already cost us one game.

 

That I agree on, forcing the throw was a bad choice IMO. However you can't lay that at the feet of the play calling, aggressive or not. 

[Jason_]

Late in the 4th Q and playing for a FG that puts you up by two scores is very different than doing so in the 1Q at home.  Luck has now thrown 2 bad INTs in the Red Zone late in games, that's not acceptable.  Bradshaw looking for extra yards was also a bad mistake - he was overly aggressive - reckless.  Did you see Bradshaw with a towel over his head afterwards?  He know that he made a rookie mistake.  Cover the ball up, hit the hole and get what the defense gives you.

 

I agree that the INT's were really bad as was the fumble.  But I put that on the players, not Pep.  

[Nostrils]

Thats the nature of the game unfortunately. 

 

 

yeah exactly, or like i say, the BEAUTY of the game. I <3 football

[xXBOXADDICTx]

I not sure how you can misconstrue calling people stupid or your somewhat disproportionate responses so far in the thread. You seem to see things in a very black and white fashion... you took exception to BHC praising the Ravens D because in your mind it meant that he was saying the Colts didn't make any mistakes which was not at all what he was saying. Good D's bring pressure (and I'm not just talking the pass rush) that can lead to mistakes. Same as a bad O can bring poor execution. There can be a a mix of the two you know?

 

A lot of people are using the wonderful position of hindsight to 2nd guess the play calling. As I asked another poster yesterday out of the 80 plays please tell me which you feel were examples of bad play calling?

So you think the playcalling that resulted in the Eagles loss was not a good example? Let me guess, it was the superior Eagle defense thats not getting enough credit from a black and white Colts fan....

 

And while you're reading peoples minds, explain to me wth you're talking about concerning BHC. I know the Ravens play great defense and put pressure on thier opponants, its what they get paid to do. My point is not what the defense caused but what our own mistakes caused. (see Eagles game) Surely this forum is'nt full of Superior know-it-all Mods and a handful of wannabes sniffing what they had for dinner yesterday?

 

Everyone has an opinion, just because it is'nt yours does'nt mean its wrong. I think you responded to this quote with a black and white response IMO. I have read several posts here that agree with my opinion just by the things they have said. Not everyone see's things your way pal......

[xXBOXADDICTx]

That I agree on, forcing the throw was a bad choice IMO. However you can't lay that at the feet of the play calling, aggressive or not. 

HEY! Now you're getting the hang of it! And you did'nt credit that great Raven defense. Im proud of you!

[xXBOXADDICTx]

My point is he forced a throw when taking the FG is ok at that point of the game.  If Bradshaw catches it, I'm not sure he scores.  Our Red Zone play has been exceptional, I don't take issue with that. We have struggled big time in the Red Zone last year.  But we have had costly mistakes late in games and its already cost us one game.

Thanks Smash Mouth, apparently we are'nt one of the forum homers...

[xXBOXADDICTx]

Every team has to be better at delivering the 'knock out' punch. We do not have exclusive rights on it. I understand we could have done better on some plays, but the criticism being chucked at this team and our coaches is getting out of order by a section of this forum. From now on, If we don't have blow out wins with mistake free football in every game, I'm done with the Colts forever.

I can see why you feel the way you feel in your last sentence here by some of the stuff I have read on this forum. Although criticism is what fans do. I love our Colts and support them profoundly. But as a fan, when I see a silly mistake or a bad playcall I feel impassioned. Its what "I" do. I respect your opinions and if I dont agree, well thats what fans do...

[SteelCityColt]

HEY! Now you're getting the hang of it! And you did'nt credit that great Raven defense. Im proud of you!

Ah but I didn't blame the play calling so I'm still not fully down with the forum kids.

[SteelCityColt]

So you think the playcalling that resulted in the Eagles loss was not a good example? Let me guess, it was the superior Eagle defense thats not getting enough credit from a black and white Colts fan....

 

And while you're reading peoples minds, explain to me wth you're talking about concerning BHC. I know the Ravens play great defense and put pressure on thier opponants, its what they get paid to do. My point is not what the defense caused but what our own mistakes caused. (see Eagles game) Surely this forum is'nt full of Superior know-it-all Mods and a handful of wannabes sniffing what they had for dinner yesterday?

 

Everyone has an opinion, just because it is'nt yours does'nt mean its wrong. I think you responded to this quote with a black and white response IMO. I have read several posts here that agree with my opinion just by the things they have said. Not everyone see's things your way pal......

Well this is a bit disjointed. But I'll give it a go,

I at no point said the Eagles D played well, I only said that people use a position of hindsight to criticise the play calling sometimes. I don't think anyone is arguing the late game execution there was lacking.

My point regarding the BHC interaction was you jumped on him for giving credit to the Ravens D with your accusations of blind homerism. The Ravens D did play well, what's wrong with saying that? Please explain how my response detailing how a stuttering O can be mixture of things is black and white?

I'm not really surprised people "agree" with you, we didn't execute well on Sunday a number of times, if you've read some of my other posts you'd know I've said that myself. However the vast majority don't feel the need to take shots at other posters, even the ones who don't agree with them.

[SteelCityColt]

Every team has to be better at delivering the 'knock out' punch. We do not have exclusive rights on it. I understand we could have done better on some plays, but the criticism being chucked at this team and our coaches is getting out of order by a section of this forum. From now on, If we don't have blow out wins with mistake free football in every game, I'm done with the Colts forever.

 

Might need to use the sarcasm smiley next time pal, I think this one might have gone over a few heads!

 

I'll save you some trouble too, I had chicken for  dinner last night... ;) 

[SOMDColtsfan]

So you give no credit to a very good Ravens team? Could have some of the Colts problems been caused by playing a good team? This is the NFL. There are very few perfect teams let alone perfect games. Just curious as to why all the negativity when the Colts just won a game when they wasn't favored to win.

What do the Ravens have to do with failure to execute, timing off between Luck and his WR`s, poor decisions to throw to covered WR`s, poor decision to fight for extra yards with a 7 point lead and in FG position with under 2 minutes to go when down in the Red Zone? So NO to answer your question. The Ravens are good but why? to your "positivity" towards the Ravens? The Colts dominated time of possession and their special teams coverage was off the charts. Who cares who was favored to win, you let that sway your opinion on whether it was a sloppy win or just lucky to get out with a win? Let those opportunities slip by against the Patriots, Broncos (oh yeah already did) or any other high powered offensive team and they WON`T win many games like that. The defense played like a lion, something most Colts fans have been begging for what seems like forever. That's an awesome, positive thing

[braveheartcolt]

What do the Ravens have to do with failure to execute, timing off between Luck and his WR`s, poor decisions to throw to covered WR`s, poor decision to fight for extra yards with a 7 point lead and in FG position with under 2 minutes to go when down in the Red Zone? So NO to answer your question. The Ravens are good but why? to your "positivity" towards the Ravens? The Colts dominated time of possession and their special teams coverage was off the charts. Who cares who was favored to win, you let that sway your opinion on whether it was a sloppy win or just lucky to get out with a win? Let those opportunities slip by against the Patriots, Broncos (oh yeah already did) or any other high powered offensive team and they WON`T win many games like that. The defense played like a lion, something most Colts fans have been begging for what seems like forever. That's an awesome, positive thing

You've been blinded by your own pessimism. Most 'bad' plays do not happen on their own. Most are dictated by what the opponent does. Tiny margins are usually at play, so being so defiant against the possibility that good defensive play can contribute to offensive mistakes is silly.

I grant you, we have made mistakes, but we have also pulled out some clutch drives as well. So easy to ignore those for some reason.

And it also seems to be the Offense that gets all the flak, and the Defensive goofs are ignored. I wonder why...

[thedude]

Man if we could just clean up some of the dumb mistakes. I mean c'mon man! Seems every game we have a chance to blow it wide open only to let the other teams back in it or even blow the game. Just look back to the Bronco's and Eagles games. Nearly blew this one with the fumble late..

Clean it up and we are 5-0

Can't just about every team say the same thing?  Minimizing mistakes is pretty much the name of the game.

[thedude]

I personally would rather lose s game trying to be aggressive then lose one playing conservative prevent.

I don't think it makes any difference how you lose.  A loss is a loss.  Period.

[BOTT]

My point is he forced a throw when taking the FG is ok at that point of the game.  If Bradshaw catches it, I'm not sure he scores.  Our Red Zone play has been exceptional, I don't take issue with that. We have struggled big time in the Red Zone last year.  But we have had costly mistakes late in games and its already cost us one game.

Or Reggie could catch a TD that hits him right in the hands.....

[SOMDColtsfan]

You've been blinded by your own pessimism. Most 'bad' plays do not happen on their own. Most are dictated by what the opponent does. Tiny margins are usually at play, so being so defiant against the possibility that good defensive play can contribute to offensive mistakes is silly.

I grant you, we have made mistakes, but we have also pulled out some clutch drives as well. So easy to ignore those for some reason.

And it also seems to be the Offense that gets all the flak, and the Defensive goofs are ignored. I wonder why...

Am blind to nothing. You are mixing pessimism up with reality. This years Colts defense, without Mathis, IMO has surpassed expectations. Maybe all the preseason hype, about how good the offense was going to be, with all the weapons hasn`t? I don`t know. I really think they have the ability to be the best in the league with more discipline.This thread was about mistakes and that's where IMO the biggest improvements can/need to be made regardless of who they are playing. Not meaning to bash anybody, would be blind (no pun intended) to not see the potential this offense has to be elite. At times it is. They are their own worst enemy and my comments pertained to the thread. I agree with OP. The Jags game was a perfect example, played against a bad team and still left great opportunities to score on the field because of COLTS mistakes, not opposing teams "great play."  

[braveheartcolt]

So it is not that hard to play mistake free football in the NFL? Is that what you are saying. Okay, I want our D to play lights out every game, and shut out every team, every week.

Or is it only Andrew Luck who has to be perfect EVERY snap?

Of course he has made mistakes, and he does need to sharpen up at times on all aspects of his game, but the distorted complaints and criticism he gets on here is verging on the ridiculous.

Regarding the Ravens game, the majority of the snipping on the 1st interception has been aimed at Luck, yet the D let a blitzer clean through to hit Luck untouched. Deserved criticism is fine, unbalanced, unreasonable and over the top criticism is not. And the 'I'm not a homer, I'm a realist' crap is just a cover up for those in that are still crying over Manning being cut (in some cases).

[crazycolt1]

What do the Ravens have to do with failure to execute, timing off between Luck and his WR`s, poor decisions to throw to covered WR`s, poor decision to fight for extra yards with a 7 point lead and in FG position with under 2 minutes to go when down in the Red Zone? So NO to answer your question. The Ravens are good but why? to your "positivity" towards the Ravens? The Colts dominated time of possession and their special teams coverage was off the charts. Who cares who was favored to win, you let that sway your opinion on whether it was a sloppy win or just lucky to get out with a win? Let those opportunities slip by against the Patriots, Broncos (oh yeah already did) or any other high powered offensive team and they WON`T win many games like that. The defense played like a lion, something most Colts fans have been begging for what seems like forever. That's an awesome, positive thing

Playing a good defense does have something to do with executing. So a RB fighting for extra yards is a bad thing? Seems like most whine and cry when our RBs are soft and don't give the extra effort. Bradshaw was fighting for extra yardage when the Ravens defense made a good play and stripped the ball. You see it as the Colts doing a bad thing but I see it as the Ravens defense making a good play just like the Colts defense make good plays. Credit is due when credit is deserved.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Playing a good defense does have something to do with executing. So a RB fighting for extra yards is a bad thing? Seems like most whine and cry when our RBs are soft and don't give the extra effort. Bradshaw was fighting for extra yardage when the Ravens defense made a good play and stripped the ball. You see it as the Colts doing a bad thing but I see it as the Ravens defense making a good play just like the Colts defense make good plays. Credit is due when credit is deserved.

It`s basic situational football? 4th qrt, up by 7 and in FG range with less than 3 minutes to go? A chance to go up by at least 2 scores?  Maybe any other time its good to fight for yards, like if we were down by 7 but I would bet in practice if you`re running a 3 minute drill I would think it would be stressed, in that situation, DO NOT turn the ball over. Run the ball cautiously, make them use their time outs and run time off the clock. I don't understand how you find any positive out of what happened ? You can spin it any way you want to fit your agenda but I haven't heard too many people even on Sirius NFL radio agree with your view. I already had my opinion on it and they just reaffirmed what I felt. But that's your opinion   

[crazycolt1]

It`s basic situational football? 4th qrt, up by 7 and in FG range with less than 3 minutes to go? A chance to go up by at least 2 scores?  Maybe any other time its good to fight for yards, like if we were down by 7 but I would bet in practice if you`re running a 3 minute drill I would think it would be stressed, in that situation, DO NOT turn the ball over. Run the ball cautiously, make them use their time outs and run time off the clock. I don't understand how you find any positive out of what happened ? You can spin it any way you want to fit your agenda but I haven't heard too many people even on Sirius NFL radio agree with your view. I already had my opinion on it and they just reaffirmed what I felt. But that's your opinion   

Had Bradshaw made a first down then all this wouldn't even be a discussion. It is my opinion you run the ball just as Bradshaw was told to. Give the credit to the Ravens for stripping the ball. You are correct it is my opinion and most of the members right here in this forum feels the same. My agenda?? What are you even talking about? My agenda? That's crazy for you to even make a comment that is just plain silly.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Had Bradshaw made a first down then all this wouldn't even be a discussion. It is my opinion you run the ball just as Bradshaw was told to. Give the credit to the Ravens for stripping the ball. You are correct it is my opinion and most of the members right here in this forum feels the same. My agenda?? What are you even talking about? My agenda? That's crazy for you to even make a comment that is just plain silly.

Had Bradshaw secured the ball in that situation we wouldn't be having this discussion. You think Bradshaw ran the ball "as he was told to"? Carelessly, by the coaches? Wow. No, that's "silly". 

[Quallenregen]

interceptions,fumbles...every day the same