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1yrdandacloudofdust

Denver CB Harris says Wilson is better than Luck [Merge]

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They looked and played beat from the coin flip on.

 

That's simply untrue. They played the way Washington played yesterday, except with less talent, and against a better opponent, and on the road.

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We were a horrible team and also in salary cap hell. 40 million in dead cap space. We overpaid for a lot of average players.

What Luck did was real. He took the worst team in the league to the playoffs.

Fans of other teams do not want to admit that because of bias and jealousy.

What season did you watch in 2011? I am a Colts fan and Luck did not take us to the playoffs with his 23 turnovers and below 55 completion percentage. He played like a rookie in a system that almost got him killed. He certainly had his moments along with the defense and STs but it was a total team effort and A LOT of luck. Pun intended. 

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That's simply untrue. They played the way Washington played yesterday, except with less talent, and against a better opponent, and on the road.

62 points to 7.

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Speaking of Arians, 10-6 last year and narrowly missed playoffs. 3-0 this year and leading the toughest division in football. Next Sunday his Cards are AT Denver. Should be a great game.

 

 

Incredible , how it worked for Arains. He was tossed to the curb by the Steelers. At 60 years old , he catches on with the Colts. Might have been out of the league or had to take a lessor job if he didn't have ties with the Colt's new hire , Pagano. Then , the incredible year with Pagano missing most of the season and all that followed that. Pretty unusual for a old guy , I'm sure (can't prove it) was never even considered to a HC in NFL to get that job at 61 years old.

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Incredible , how it worked for Arains. He was tossed to the curb by the Steelers. At 60 years old , he catches on with the Colts. Might have been out of the league or had to take a lessor job if he didn't have ties with the Colt's new hire , Pagano. Then , the incredible year with Pagano missing most of the season and all that followed that. Pretty unusual for a old guy , I'm sure (can't prove it) was never even considered to a HC in NFL to get that job at 61 years old.

Yeah, I really like him. He seems kind of kooky with the way he looks and all but he is quite the story. His players seem to love him. I like the Cards and hope they can pull the upset in that division.

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Getting trounced by a vastly superior team doesn't mean that you didn't play hard. Maybe you can point to spots in the second half of that game where the effort wasn't top notch, but that would be true of any team that's getting walloped like that.

And yeah, people are well within their rights to be dead wrong. But, like I've always said, the tanking nonsense just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Its because they are jealous. They have to make excuses to talk down about the Colts because it makes them feel better.

Look at all of the time other fans spend on Colts boards. Been like this for years too.

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Its because they are jealous. They have to make excuses to talk down about the Colts because it makes them feel better.

Look at all of the time other fans spend on Colts boards. Been like this for years too.

 

Yeah, I don't know about all that. And of any team to have jealous fans, I wouldn't expect that of Pats fans. But whatever.

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Yeah, I don't know about all that. And of any team to have jealous fans, I wouldn't expect that of Pats fans. But whatever.

They are the most jealous.

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Five players remaining from that roster. This is the point, isn't it?

Yes. It is not clear cut either way - the tanking. Very subjective with all things considered. I have no issue with those that believe there was no tanking. I just believe differently.

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Yes. It is not clear cut either way - the tanking. Very subjective with all things considered. I have no issue with those that believe there was no tanking. I just believe differently.

 

As a fan who follows the team religiously, who watched post game pressers and player interviews, who studied the approach from game to game, who is aware of the roster adjustments that were made and the lineup changes throughout, and who is familiar with the administration that was calling the shots, there's no room for doubt. 

 

So I do have issue with people who state, matter of factly, that the 2011 Colts tanked. Whether it's fans on a message board or writers or even Colts journalists, it doesn't make sense, and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. So when you state so cavalierly that the Colts tanked, I'm going to refute it. Sorry. Not to be a jerk, but because I believe it's untrue.

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Thanks for proving that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

you care to tell me why or just post a one liner?

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Five players remaining from that roster. This is the point, isn't it?

 

Yes. It is not clear cut either way - the tanking. Very subjective with all things considered. I have no issue with those that believe there was no tanking. I just believe differently.

 

 

Are you saying that the players on that roster were told to tank the game and then cut ? Or are you saying that a game plan was put in to get beat 62-7. So who ordered the "tank" to begin with ? All the coaches are gone now. So IYO , when will we here about who ordered the tanking and who will it come from. Players that were told to lay down or get cut ? The coaching staff ordered to devise this mystery game plan to lose 62-7 ? Would really like to know the possible "chain of command on this tanking process ? Please provide it for me as I might not be around when someone spills the beans . No doubt it will come out as this stuff always does.

 

BTW... when NBA basketball teams were tanking games to draft a Super Star that was available , they did it by sitting the star players and giving a lot of playing time to scrubs. The GMs would just say they are out of contention and don't want to risk injury and also want to see how the young guys perform in order to make off season roster moves . THAT IS HOW TEAMS TANKED GAMES. I never heard a player in any sport say they were told to play poorly .

 

Can you show me evidence that the Colts left better players on the bench ? I really don't think it happened in 2011. Polian had no back up plan for Manning missing the season. He knew Painter was a bum and took a shot with Collins. Those that say the Russian guy was the answer are just being turds.

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As a fan who follows the team religiously, who watched post game pressers and player interviews, who studied the approach from game to game, who is aware of the roster adjustments that were made and the lineup changes throughout, and who is familiar with the administration that was calling the shots, there's no room for doubt. 

 

So I do have issue with people who state, matter of factly, that the 2011 Colts tanked. Whether it's fans on a message board or writers or even Colts journalists, it doesn't make sense, and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. So when you state so cavalierly that the Colts tanked, I'm going to refute it. Sorry. Not to be a jerk, but because I believe it's untrue.

 

 

Please read my post and tell me how a team goes about tanking a season and being sure a player or coach doesn't "spill the beans" a few years later. I'm just not smart enough to figure it out other than what I said about not playing your best players.

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Please read my post and tell me how a team goes about tanking a season and being sure a player or coach doesn't "spill the beans" a few years later. I'm just not smart enough to figure it out other than what I said about not playing your best players.

 

I can't.

 

And the fact that Irsay cleaned house after 2011 just busts it up even more. If there was a directive to tank, one of the 20+ people who were fired because of it would have said something.

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The only thing that may bug me about these talks is that both Wilson and Luck are excellent young QBs. I am not sure why some want to make an argument that one is leaps and bounds above the other. As far as your stance on the 2011 Colts being at least a 6-10 team with a decent QB, all I can say is not with that team around him. Again, look at which players are still with the Colts from 2011. Then look at the players that are still on Seattle. Also, consider why the players that are no longer on both teams left. There are good reasons why Seattle still has productive players from that year on their team and Indy does not.

 

I hear yah . . . I was not advocating necessarily that Wilson has past Luck, but just have been making points of why the original article may not be off base and that there may be some, perhaps not the majority, that think one QB's resume to date is better than another's QBs . . . who knows maybe in a few years Dalton will be the head of the class . . .I am kind of rooting for Tannehill, you know AFC East pride thingy . . . but it happens, it what makes for good discussion . . . kind of like power rankings, kind of do not mean anything, but folks like to talk about them . . . I am not a big power rankings guy, but I go enjoy a good round of who does one think is the better RB, QB and so on . . .

 

The trouble that I have when looking at the pedigree of the 2011 team, is that from what is see, and you guys can correct me if I am wrong, is the roster of the team was closer to the 2010 team that went 10-6 with a lot of injuries, so I use that team as a basis . . . I know Manning was hurt, but I am not sure what other injuries or players leaving between the two years '10 and '11, so if you understand you need to factor in that '10 had injuries, the 10-6 team roster was a tad stronger than that . . . so you take your starting QB out, drop 3-5 wins and you are down to 6-8 wins (if you drop down from 12 had they been health the year prior) . . . so that is where I get my figure . . .

 

I understand what all you are saying about the roster roll over . . . but it two sided coin . . . if some players left, what players replace them . . .is the player better or worse . . . look at Denver, they lost Decker but gain Sanders, so its kind of a wash, , we can not say they lost Decker to they are weaker . . . and second, you guys mentioned that Seattle has gotten better players around Wilson, and that is why he contributes less . .. but can not the same be said of Luck, that the additions to the Colts have helped that team and it is those additions, along with Luck, that has them close to the same level of 2010 and before . . . if one is going to praise a young player for team A, then the same could be said for Team B

 

Its kind of like the 2001 Pats and the history that followed . . . they were 5-11 they year prior and 0-2 in 2001 and remember a friend of mine saying they were done once Bledsoe went done and just done in general not really going anywhere . . . they ended up going 11-3 the rest of the way and won the SB.  Surely Brady had a lot to do with it and should be given credit, but we did get some players in FA and draft, Seymour, Vrabel, Cox, etc . .  than helped in the cause . . . so I can not give all the credit of the turn around to Brady . .  some sure but not all . . .

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Thank you for the pistol comment. By inane I meant empty or lacking significance, which I would consider to be quite different than insane. Maybe you do not, but I do. Did you even read those "stats", some were completely made up in order to prove the posters point. There is a reason there is a quote, "Lies, Damn lies and Statistics". Many people, including many posters here, both pro Colts and anti Colts use statistics to bolster their weak arguments.

Happy now? Yes that is a question unlike the other post you are referring to, given the context and wording. Also, my post that had the reference about what a question is was about the poster saying that Wilson had more game winning drives than Luck. That poster apparently has a hard time admitting they were incorrect.

 

Ahh . . . I get you now . . . I see your point now . . . :thmup:  . . . now your intent is clear . . . I understand . . .

 

Sometimes it is tough to pick up things in threads/emails/texts and what not as one is not in front of the person to get inflections and what not to get a better feeling and too there is no immediate response to pick up if someone does not immediately understand something and/or to get a clarification . . .

 

Just a quick clarification on that poster with the GWD points . . . I know the poster did not use perfect grammar in the initial post as you indicated, the sense that I did get out of their post is that it was not a statement either as they use the words along the lines "I bet you this . . . ", it wasn't a question but kind of like an inquiry so to speak . . . yes they did seem strong willed and perhaps should of looked up the facts independently prior to coming on so strong, but for what it is worth they did say they initial statement was incorrect.    

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We were a horrible team and also in salary cap hell. 40 million in dead cap space. We overpaid for a lot of average players.

What Luck did was real. He took the worst team in the league to the playoffs.

Fans of other teams do not want to admit that because of bias and jealousy.

 

The worst team in the NFL went 11-5?

 

You can play the jealousy card with a lot of NFL teams but, sorry, not us. Luck will be fortunate to have the type of career that Brady's had. Any QB would. 

 

As I've said repeatedly, I think he's great. This hero worship stuff though is a bit much for me. We're not going to get anywhere with it anyway, so... carry on. 

 

(On a side note, this reminds me of the "What Would Brian Boitano Do?" song from the South Park movie. Andrew cured cancer on his way to practice one day, right?  ;) )

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The worst team in the NFL went 11-5?

You can play the jealousy card with a lot of NFL teams but, sorry, not us. Luck will be fortunate to have the type of career that Brady's had. Any QB would.

As I've said repeatedly, I think he's great. This hero worship stuff though is a bit much for me. We're not going to get anywhere with it anyway, so... carry on.

(On a side note, this reminds me of the "What Would Brian Boitano Do?" song from the South Park movie. Andrew cured cancer on his way to practice one day, right? ;) )

I mean we were the worst team in the league when Andrew took over. We had the worst record. So you can't really dispute that.

Worst roster is certainly a debatable point.

However, we probably win 2-5 games without Andrew, and if not for a handful of seriously remarkable plays, probably should have only won 6-8 his rookie year.

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Maybe it is just me but I hate these debates. Manning was compared like crazy to Brady and Eli cause he had more rings. I get so annoyed by the fact that since Cousins, Luck, Wilson, RG3, and Foles came from the same draft class then everyone feels the need to compare them.

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As a fan who follows the team religiously, who watched post game pressers and player interviews, who studied the approach from game to game, who is aware of the roster adjustments that were made and the lineup changes throughout, and who is familiar with the administration that was calling the shots, there's no room for doubt. 

 

So I do have issue with people who state, matter of factly, that the 2011 Colts tanked. Whether it's fans on a message board or writers or even Colts journalists, it doesn't make sense, and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. So when you state so cavalierly that the Colts tanked, I'm going to refute it. Sorry. Not to be a jerk, but because I believe it's untrue.

You can believe whatever you want. You were not in the locker room or behind closed doors. And sorry to break it to you, but watching press conferences and interviews and your unwavering faith in your admin team makes you no more an expert than me. Again, your own Indy media believes the Colts tanked and they have waaay more access than you to the team. And having the best pick since Elway sitting there is impetus enough to start Painter game after game, loss after loss.

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Are you saying that the players on that roster were told to tank the game and then cut ? Or are you saying that a game plan was put in to get beat 62-7. So who ordered the "tank" to begin with ? All the coaches are gone now. So IYO , when will we here about who ordered the tanking and who will it come from. Players that were told to lay down or get cut ? The coaching staff ordered to devise this mystery game plan to lose 62-7 ? Would really like to know the possible "chain of command on this tanking process ? Please provide it for me as I might not be around when someone spills the beans . No doubt it will come out as this stuff always does.

 

BTW... when NBA basketball teams were tanking games to draft a Super Star that was available , they did it by sitting the star players and giving a lot of playing time to scrubs. The GMs would just say they are out of contention and don't want to risk injury and also want to see how the young guys perform in order to make off season roster moves . THAT IS HOW TEAMS TANKED GAMES. I never heard a player in any sport say they were told to play poorly .

 

Can you show me evidence that the Colts left better players on the bench ? I really don't think it happened in 2011. Polian had no back up plan for Manning missing the season. He knew Painter was a bum and took a shot with Collins. Those that say the Russian guy was the answer are just being turds.

Signing Collins and then starting Painter game after game is evidence enough.

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You can believe whatever you want. You were not in the locker room or behind closed doors. And sorry to break it to you, but watching press conferences and interviews and your unwavering faith in your mgmg team makes you no more an expert than me. Again, your own Indy media believes the Colts tanked and they have waaay more access than you to the team. And having the best pick since Elway sitting there is impetus enough to start Painter game after game, loss after loss.

 

To the first bolded, yes it does. To the second bolded, no they don't. 

 

And ultimately, any claims made by anyone need to be scrutinized. If they don't hold up to scrutiny, then reasonable minds should dismiss them. If you choose to continue hanging on to debunked claims, that's a you problem. Don't be surprised when you continue to get called out on it, though.

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Starting Painter game after game is evidence enough.

 

Painter only started 8 games.

 

And who else was supposed to start those games? The really good backup QB that we purposely stuck on the bench so we could keep losing?

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To the first bolded, yes it does. To the second bolded, no they don't. 

 

And ultimately, any claims made by anyone need to be scrutinized. If they don't hold up to scrutiny, then reasonable minds should dismiss them. If you choose to continue hanging on to debunked claims, that's a you problem. 

Lol. No it doesn't. I know you like to prop yourself up as this resident expert but unless you have a job inside of the Colts, you are no more of an expert than any other outside no matter how many interviews you watch which are sanitized by PR or coach speak you listened to, also sanitized by PR or how many times you tell yourself the roster "moves" were done to help an 0-13 team win a game. 

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Painter only started 8 games.

 

And who else was supposed to start those games? The really good backup QB that we purposely stuck on the bench so we could keep losing?

Your forgot the ancient Kerry Collins. Who was better known for drinking then playing football when you signed him.

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Again, your own Indy media believes the Colts tanked and they have waaay more access than you to the team.

I'd be interested in seeing anything you have to substantiate this.

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Lol. No it doesn't. I know you like to prop yourself up as this resident expert but unless you have a job inside of the Colts, you are no more of an expert than any other outside no matter how many interviews you watch which are sanitized by PR or coach speak you listened to, also sanitized by PR or how many times you tell yourself the roster "moves" were done to help an 0-13 team win a game. 

 

Yeah, that's ridiculous of you to say. Seeing as how I watched the Colts preseason games, rewatched all the regular season games, followed the team through training camp, was familiar with all the roster moves they made, etc., and you didn't, I absolutely AM more of an expert on that team than you or anyone else who was only familiar with the team from a distance.

 

And if you were to say the same thing about the Patriots, I'd defer to you, as someone more familiar with the ins and outs of the way the team is being managed. I'm not saying this to make myself look good. It's actually depressing how intensely I followed such a terrible team, but I did follow them, and I do know more about them than you do. That's not debatable, sorry.

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Your forgot the ancient Kerry Collins. Who was better known for drinking then playing football when you signed him.

 

So we started Kerry Collins for what reason?

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Yeah, that's ridiculous of you to say. Seeing as how I watched the Colts preseason games, rewatched all the regular season games, followed the team through training camp, was familiar with all the roster moves they made, etc., and you didn't, I absolutely AM more of an expert on that team than you or anyone else who was only familiar with the team from a distance.

 

And if you were to say the same thing about the Patriots, I'd defer to you, as someone more familiar with the ins and outs of the way the team is being managed. I'm not saying this to make myself look good. It's actually depressing how intensely I followed such a terrible team, but I did follow them, and I do know more about them than you do. That's not debatable, sorry.

Sorry. You have to do better than that. You have yet to prove that they did not tank. Saying you watched interviews and press conferences and "trust" mgmt. is not evidence you know.

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Linking a Brad Wells article doesn't count exactly. He's almost got as big an axe to grind and certainly he doesn't have any real inside access to the team.

Besides if it was a tank season why risk losing the number 1 pick with back to back wins?

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Seriously.....  12 pages... :scratch:   

 

I bet Luck and Wilson would think you're all :mindblow:  Nutz   :nutz:

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