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Can I not join both. Because I really don't want you guys fighting over me. I think you're both great.......

Come join the "support your team and it's players no matter what club," we have opening and you get a free pair of blue colored glasses, and get cool nickames like homer and fanboy, it's awesome!!! Sounds good, yes?

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I do believe the pick was traded to philly who took an OLB that can't yet even get into a game.

Coulda woulda game is fools gold. If we kept the pick there was probably a 50% chance of the pick being a dud.

The only truly fair way to evaluate a particular pick's value is to look at the ACTUAL player chosen. So far, his deficiencies excepted, T. Rich contributes a LOT more to his team this year and last than the player the pick ended up being has contributed. Stay tuned for the next 3 years for the final retrospective comparison of reality, not fools gold speculation.

Overall, I like your logic...except you can't compare him to what another team did, you can only compare him to what the Colts might have chosen among those still on the board.  Clearly that wouldn't have been Marcus Smith in our case.  It might have been Bucannon or Ward at Safety, Roby at Corner (highly doubt that), Su'A'Filo or Bitonio at guard....maybe even a trade down and Mewhort or someone like Marcus Smith.  

 

Furthermore, 4 games into their rookie seasons, we'd still only be comparing this hypothetical player to what we'd hope they will become based on a limited sample size.  Comparing them based on contribution to date, would be foolish indeed.

 

That said, you make another good point, which is that, even though T-Rich is unlikely to ever play with enough impact to merit the 26th pick of 2014, neither are many of the other players that we would have chosen.  Though we'd all like to have that pick back, the spilt milk is highly overstated.

 

We also have to remember that you can't have it both ways when it comes to your GM and his nature.  You can't like him as the GM that rolled the dice and gave up a second for Vontae Davis - at a time where that 2nd could easily have been projected in the 33-40 range - and dislike him as the GM that gave up a late 1st for a player drafted # 3 overall the year previous.

 

It's a miss, but I'm glad he tried.  I hope Grigson learns, but I also hope he never changes - there is a difference.

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Overall, I like your logic...except you can't compare him to what another team did, you can only compare him to what the Colts might have chosen among those still on the board.  Clearly that wouldn't have been Marcus Smith in our case.  It might have been Bucannon or Ward at Safety, Roby at Corner (highly doubt that), Su'A'Filo or Bitonio at guard....maybe even a trade down and Mewhort or someone like Marcus Smith.  

 

Furthermore, 4 games into their rookie seasons, we'd still only be comparing this hypothetical player to what we'd hope they will become based on a limited sample size.  Comparing them based on contribution to date, would be foolish indeed.

 

That said, you make another good point, which is that, even though T-Rich is unlikely to ever play with enough impact to merit the 26th pick of 2014, neither are many of the other players that we would have chosen.  Though we'd all like to have that pick back, the spilt milk is highly overstated.

 

We also have to remember that you can't have it both ways when it comes to your GM and his nature.  You can't like him as the GM that rolled the dice and gave up a second for Vontae Davis - at a time where that 2nd could easily have been projected in the 33-40 range - and dislike him as the GM that gave up a late 1st for a player drafted # 3 overall the year previous.

 

It's a miss, but I'm glad he tried.  I hope Grigson learns, but I also hope he never changes - there is a difference.

I hope he never trades a 1st for a running back again. That would be the problem I had with it. I mean its no big deal now, Like you said its spilled milk and in truth it was only 1 draft pick though the highest pick we had, Like you also say, I hope he learned......Im actually pretty sure he did

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I hope he never trades a 1st for a running back again. That would be the problem I had with it. I mean its no big deal now, Like you said its spilled milk and in truth it was only 1 draft pick though the highest pick we had, Like you also say, I hope he learned......Im actually pretty sure he did

Same page, but he wasn't just trading a 1st for a running back.  He was trading a late first for a player he'd carefully scouted one year prior as a top 10 talent.  Mis-scouted, yes, but you still think what you think at the time.  

 

I'm not a first round running back guy, in general, but there are running backs that merit being first round picks, and I don't fault Grigs for pulling the trigger if he thought T-Rich was one of them, especially to pair with and grow with your franchise QB under a very favorable contract where the Browns ate the signing bonus.

 

We should criticize Grigson for the wrong scouting assessment, not using a first round pick on a player he believes is worth one.  Clearly GM's are using 1st round picks less and less on RB's, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't or won't be drafted in the first round in year's to come.  This was no different than following his draft board.  

 

Glad he did, sorry he missed.

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Same page, but he wasn't just trading a 1st for a running back.  He was trading a late first for a player he'd carefully scouted one year prior as a top 10 talent.  Mis-scouted, yes, but you still think what you think at the time.  

 

I'm not a first round running back guy, in general, but there are running backs that merit being first round picks, and I don't fault Grigs for pulling the trigger if he thought T-Rich was one of them, especially to pair with and grow with your franchise QB under a very favorable contract where the Browns ate the signing bonus.

 

We should criticize Grigson for the wrong scouting assessment, not using a first round pick on a player he believes is worth one.  Clearly GM's are using 1st round picks less and less on RB's, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't or won't be drafted in the first round in year's to come.  This was no different than following his draft board.  

 

Glad he did, sorry he missed.

Totally agree

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I have seen enough of Trent...   he is a FB.     No more no less.   

 

He has a place on this roster but the difference between Brad and TRich is night and day.     I want Boom to start seeing snaps. 

 

Trent just looks incredibly slow compared to the 30 year old Brad.....   I actually think Trent is starting to "hold the team back" with his lack of ability.    This unit has better options.     Use them and stop trying to save face.

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Same page, but he wasn't just trading a 1st for a running back. He was trading a late first for a player he'd carefully scouted one year prior as a top 10 talent. Mis-scouted, yes, but you still think what you think at the time.

I'm not a first round running back guy, in general, but there are running backs that merit being first round picks, and I don't fault Grigs for pulling the trigger if he thought T-Rich was one of them, especially to pair with and grow with your franchise QB under a very favorable contract where the Browns ate the signing bonus.

We should criticize Grigson for the wrong scouting assessment, not using a first round pick on a player he believes is worth one. Clearly GM's are using 1st round picks less and less on RB's, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't or won't be drafted in the first round in year's to come. This was no different than following his draft board.

Glad he did, sorry he missed.

If all this is true and Grigson went back over his scouting notes to make the decision to trade then he is a fool because there was a season of pro football to look at. During that season Trent was handed the ball a ton of times, was out performed by his backup in many stats, and only had one good game which was against the Colts.

Trent danced behind the line his whole rookie season while picking up a very pedestrian ypc. The only stat that looked halfway decent were all the goal line touchdowns Trent scored, other then that he didn't do anything exceptional.

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Can you imagine if in today's game, it had been Rchardson, not Bradshaw, on that 4th and 1 red zone gamble getting nothing, and Richardson, not Bradshaw, that gave up the strip fumble when the game was about to be clinched?

I recognize that Bradshaw has indeed performing really well, but guess what, just maybe it's NOT all Richardson in his lack of effective performance. Curious, are people going to start ragging on Bradshaw?

Both of those "blunders" by Bradshaw today, to me, we're ineffectual play calls, ineffectual OL push, and good defense. Just like on Richardson many times this year.

Just an observation.

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Bradshaw has proven himself over his career to be a decent back, Richardson has not.

Manning used to throw some picks that ended any hope of a comeback, even good players have bad games. Difference is the good players will sometimes have great games to make up for it, Trent has never had a great game.

The only people who believe Trent is good are Alabama fans and Colt fans, the rest of the world thinks he's pretty much an overpaid and over hyped backup.

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Bradshaw has proven himself over his career to be a decent back, Richardson has not.

Manning used to throw some picks that ended any hope of a comeback, even good players have bad games. Difference is the good players will sometimes have great games to make up for it, Trent has never had a great game.

The only people who believe Trent is good are Alabama fans and Colt fans, the rest of the world thinks he's pretty much an overpaid and over hyped backup.

They are running by committee. He averaged 4ypc today. He is never going to be a homerun guy. Just enjoy the winning . There are other players on the team besides Trent. He is filling a role and doing an ok job

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Bradshaw has proven himself over his career to be a decent back, Richardson has not.

Manning used to throw some picks that ended any hope of a comeback, even good players have bad games. Difference is the good players will sometimes have great games to make up for it, Trent has never had a great game.

The only people who believe Trent is good are Alabama fans and Colt fans, the rest of the world thinks he's pretty much an overpaid and over hyped backup.

Cool story.

But you know what I would enjoy more?

Hearing it another 100 times in another 100 posts.

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Bradshaw has proven himself over his career to be a decent back, Richardson has not.

Manning used to throw some picks that ended any hope of a comeback, even good players have bad games. Difference is the good players will sometimes have great games to make up for it, Trent has never had a great game.

The only people who believe Trent is good are Alabama fans and Colt fans, the rest of the world thinks he's pretty much an overpaid and over hyped backup.

Anybody who says Trent is overpaid proves they don't know what they are talking about.  You lose all credibility and any other point is invalid due to the fact he is on a rookie contract (which are very low these days) with no signing bonus.  That was paid out by Cleveland.  So please, tell me again how overpaid he is!

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Ya he had an ok day, but the thing is he is just a guy.    Indy could get his production from ANY RB off the street.

 

Tipton and Herron both out played TR in pre season...   and Boom outperformed everyone.   I really want to see Boom start getting some snaps.    Lets see what he can do, if TR is the better option then so be it.

 

I have just seen enough of TR and he is who he is.    I am really disappointed with his play.   Like you said he played ok....   but he did not and has not played like a top 3 pick (or even 26 or whatever indy game up)   he has played like a 7th round draft pick.

 

Expectations ....     fair or not will follow him wherever he goes.

Trent had a very good day

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Trent had a good day with his YPC average (4.1). I'll take that every game actually. I think Mosley gave everyone fits, but especially Trent when he caught the ball, Mosley was there to tackle him right away so it made him look worse. Against the Texans I think you keep passing him the ball and let him run it 10-15 times. 15 carries and 5 receptions might be the best use for him and continue to use Bradshaw with him regularly as the nice combo they are. He's nothing special, but he's doing his job at least. We're just hoping he continually produces at this point before taking the next step.

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Trent had a good day with his YPC average (4.1). I'll take that every game actually. I think Mosley gave everyone fits, but especially Trent when he caught the ball, Mosley was there to tackle him right away so it made him look worse. Against the Texans I think you keep passing him the ball and let him run it 10-15 times. 15 carries and 5 receptions might be the best use for him and continue to use Bradshaw with him regularly as the nice combo they are. He's nothing special, but he's doing his job at least. We're just hoping he continually produces at this point before taking the next step.

 

 

I'm watching the game again right now, and while Mosley gave everyone fits, there were at least 2 plays that I've seen so far that was clearly the result of Trent being a poor running back. For a guy who is supposed to be a YAC player, he's had too many plays where he's brought down with one-arm tackles. On the screen play where Mosley stopped him, he had Thornton out in front blocking and had Mosley sealed inside but Trent unnecessarily cutback right into Mosley's arms.

 

 
 
 
 
 

 

He's just not very good, and I'm tired of this staff and this forum acting like it's not his fault. He is a liability virtually every time we put the ball in his hands. The only thing more foolish looking than trading a first for Richardson is the refusal to admit it was a mistake and keep force feeding him in an attempt to save face. That is a poor reflection on this staff and front office, in my opinion

 

 

Overall, I'm pleased with the progress the team has made so far. The offensive line is coming together, as is the defensive line. The secondary looks borderline elite, even without either of our starting safeties from last season, and the play calling on both sides of the ball has improved drastically....BUT... Trent and the team's insistence on starting him is the biggest blemish I see, and still makes me take pause when considering if this is the right front office to lead us to a superbowl  

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Ya he had an ok day, but the thing is he is just a guy.    Indy could get his production from ANY RB off the street.

 

I would really like to see these great RBs off the street that a lot of you are talking about. The ones who can get a 4 ypc or better, are some of the best in pass protection, are very good as receivers out of the backfield and don’t have any big red flags (of the field, injury or drugs).

 

And none of the 32 teams have any room for these great RBs on their roster, there must be a lot of great talent at the RB position in the NFL right now.

 

What some of you don’t see is that even if Trent’s rushing has not been great (I think it has been ok this year), he still brings something to the team. He has been very good in the other aspects of the game. I don’t think it would be so easy to find somebody that are as good in pass protection, receiving out of the backfield and can just come in and give you a better overall performance.

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I would really like to see these great RBs off the street that a lot of you are talking about. The ones who can get a 4 ypc or better, are some of the best in pass protection, are very good as receivers out of the backfield and don’t have any big red flags (of the field, injury or drugs).

 

And none of the 32 teams have any room for these great RBs on their roster, there must be a lot of great talent at the RB position in the NFL right now.

 

What some of you don’t see is that even if Trent’s rushing has not been great (I think it has been ok this year), he still brings something to the team. He has been very good in the other aspects of the game. I don’t think it would be so easy to find somebody that are as good in pass protection, receiving out of the backfield and can just come in and give you a better overall performance.

 

Bradshaw is better than him in every facet of the game 

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Tipton and Herron out played him in pre season?  

 

Hey man I get it ...   Grigs and staff are giving this "guy" every chance in the world to MAKE SOMETHING BIG HAPPEN. .. 

 

But it's been a year now ....  "a YEAR"    and it is safe to say...  Trent is who Trent is...   and that is nothing special.

 

I said in my previous posts who I would like to see... . and he is on the roster ....    not off the street.

I would really like to see these great RBs off the street that a lot of you are talking about. The ones who can get a 4 ypc or better, are some of the best in pass protection, are very good as receivers out of the backfield and don’t have any big red flags (of the field, injury or drugs).

 

And none of the 32 teams have any room for these great RBs on their roster, there must be a lot of great talent at the RB position in the NFL right now.

 

What some of you don’t see is that even if Trent’s rushing has not been great (I think it has been ok this year), he still brings something to the team. He has been very good in the other aspects of the game. I don’t think it would be so easy to find somebody that are as good in pass protection, receiving out of the backfield and can just come in and give you a better overall performance.

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Bradshaw is better than him in every facet of the game 

 

Bradshaw is already playing as much as Trent and I think his workload is as it should be. It is better to keep him fresh and hopefully healthy.

 

And I was thinking more of all the posters who say anybody of the streets can play better than Richardson.

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Tipton and Herron out played him in pre season?  

 

Hey man I get it ...   Grigs and staff are giving this "guy" every chance in the world to MAKE SOMETHING BIG HAPPEN. .. 

 

But it's been a year now ....  "a YEAR"    and it is safe to say...  Trent is who Trent is...   and that is nothing special.

 

I said in my previous posts who I would like to see... . and he is on the roster ....    not off the street.

 

You also said in that post that anybody off the streets could play as goodl as Trent and it was that statement that I really don’t agree with. And you are not the only one who have made similar statements.

 

Tipton and Herron played well in PRESEASON against second and third stringers.

 

Boom has looked promising and I agree that he should get a few more chances to see what he got, but if I were Luck I would rather have Trent protecting me and be my safety valve than Boom.

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More Trent awesomeness:

 

 
Here, the play is designed to go to the right, as apparent by the location of the hand-off. There appears to be solid blocking on that side, with one lane and one bounce-out opportunity clear as day. What does the "bowling ball of butcher knives" opt to do, you ask? 
 
 
Yeah, that's right, let's cutback to the side where there's an unblocked defender
 
 
 
Even worse is how easily he was wrapped up by a DB for the tackle. The guy is 230 lbs and is supposedly strong, but runs with about as much power as a geriatric with a walker. He's always upright when he runs and never naturally runs aggressive, lowering his pad level
 
 
 
 
But it's all the offensive line's fault, I forgot ...  
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Geez another arm chair GM.

 

What happen to all the other runs where Richardson averaged 4 yd a carry?

 

He actually had a really good run where he bounced it outside a few times and made something out of nothing. He wasn't as horrible as he normally is this game, but he still left quite a few yards on the field yesterday. And the problem is, the number of 'meh' runs far outweigh the 'wow' runs with him, and that's a problem.

 

I also find it funny how some of you apologist shift your argument according to what little you can use as evidence. Many of you in here have drove the "YPC average doesn't tell the whole story" argument into the ground, yet here this guy is using YPC to justify an overall underwhelming performance yesterday. As someone else said earlier, Trent is "just a guy" at this point. The only people still in denial about that fact are people on this forum and the front office/coaching staff  

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He actually had a really good run where he bounced it outside a few times and made something out of nothing. He wasn't as horrible as he normally is this game, but he still left quite a few yards on the field yesterday. And the problem is, the number of 'meh' runs far outweigh the 'wow' runs with him, and that's a problem.

 

I also find it funny how some of you apologist shift your argument according to what little you can use as evidence. Many of you in here have drove the "YPC average doesn't tell the whole story" argument into the ground, yet here this guy is using YPC to justify an overall underwhelming performance yesterday. As someone else said earlier, Trent is "just a guy" at this point. The only people still in denial about that fact are people on this forum and the front office/coaching staff  

Again, your points mean nothing just like mine..

 

You, me and everyone else is a "arm chair GM"

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More Trent awesomeness:

Here, the play is designed to go to the right, as apparent by the location of the hand-off. There appears to be solid blocking on that side, with one lane and one bounce-out opportunity clear as day. What does the "bowling ball of butcher knives" opt to do, you ask?

Yeah, that's right, let's cutback to the side where there's an unblocked defender

Even worse is how easily he was wrapped up by a DB for the tackle. The guy is 230 lbs and is supposedly strong, but runs with about as much power as a geriatric with a walker. He's always upright when he runs and never naturally runs aggressive, lowering his pad level

But it's all the offensive line's fault, I forgot ...

Did you take those pictures with Andrew Luck's flip phone?

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Anybody who says Trent is overpaid proves they don't know what they are talking about.  You lose all credibility and any other point is invalid due to the fact he is on a rookie contract (which are very low these days) with no signing bonus.  That was paid out by Cleveland.  So please, tell me again how overpaid he is!

 

2.25 million this year and 3.2 next year is over payed for his production in my book. all guaranteed.

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2.25 million this year and 3.2 next year is over payed for his production in my book. all guaranteed.

Not really. He is playing "ok" Certainly not what we all hoped, but his contract is pretty small. Even if it means his carries allow Bradshaw to get to the playoffs healthy, its worth it

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Again, your points mean nothing just like mine..

 

You, me and everyone else is a "arm chair GM"

 

Except I'm actually providing evidence to back my opinion. You can label me an "arm chair GM" or whatever else you want to call me. The only thing I see is you can't really explain why you feel my opinion doesn't hold merit

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