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Pass Rush [Merge]


lollygagger8
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The Jags sacked Foles 5x last week, and a 3rd string Tackle kept our best pass rusher in check basically all night. 

 

 

Walden did a lot better, and I'm not giving up on Werner yet, but dang, last night was pretty pathetic as far as pass rush. Don't give me any garbage about doom and gloom and overreacting either...it's an absolutely legitimate concern. 

 

 

I realize Grigs wants to roll with what we have, but what can we do about this? 

 

Give Newsome, Chris Carter more opportunity? 

Are there any free agents worth a crap? 

Trade someone? 

What else? 

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I want to start by saying that I feel Pep called a great game last night. We had to control the clock by running the ball in order to keep the Philly offense off the field. We had the game won. Unfortunately, two costly turnovers ultimately cost us the game. 

 

The biggest problem was our defense. Specifically, our inability to rush the passer. I was actually impressed with our secondary because there are not many defensive backs that can cover NFL caliber receivers for as long as Davis, Toler, and Co. had to cover the Philly receivers last night. 

 

Bjoern Werner has been a major disappointment. I was optimistic this season given all the positive chatter coming from the team this offseason. Perhaps he is not better than a backup. Peters is a great left tackle, but Werner was an absolute non-factor last night. 

 

Erik Walden is no pass rusher. It is pointless to rely on him to rush the passer. He has shown his whole career he is incapable of rushing the passer. Solid against the run, but no pass rusher. He was going against a 3rd string right tackle last night and was largely negated. 

 

It seemed like the best pass rush came from defensive lineman Cory Redding. Considering that All Pro guard Evan Mathis did not play for the Eagles last night, I am kind of surprised the defensive line could not get more pressure. 

 

Unless Jon Newsome steps up or some street free agent gets signed, the problem is not going to get better. We are only going to play better offensive lines. 

 

Despite all this, I really hope that Grigson does NOT trade any draft pick to acquire another team's backup OLB/DE. We may actually be able to bolster our defense in the 2015 draft. 

 

Sadly, I am afraid this may be the year we pay the piper for a horrendous 2013 draft and lackluster free agent signings. This season for Luck is what the 2002 season was for Manning. The silver lining is that season brought us Dwight Freeney. 

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Honestly, most of our pass rush last season was Mathis and he's gone, someone has to step up. Walden can step up and make plays but I'd definitely love sacks. With Art Jones down, we definitely need something, trade or not, because pass rush is one of the worst problems we have on defense.

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I will agree our pass rush wasn't as good in the second half, but you clearly did not watch the first half of the game.  We had consistent pressure on the Eagles.  Even the announcer were pointing out the pressure we were giving them.  Walden abused that third string guy.  So I really have zero idea what you are talking about.

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This is a real problem for the Colts.  Ultimately, I think the offense will get fixed because eventually Chuck will get a clue and tell Pep to get it together of Chud will take over.  I don't see any fixes for what ails the pass rush. The solution is not on this roster.  There is no speed or explosiveness at either LB position.  The Colts defense was mediocre last year when it included the DPOY in Mathis.

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I will agree our pass rush wasn't as good in the second half, but you clearly did not watch the first half of the game.  We had consistent pressure on the Eagles.  Even the announcer were pointing out the pressure we were giving them.  Walden abused that third string guy.  So I really have zero idea what you are talking about.

 

I didn't realize you base your views on games by what the commentators say. 

 

Sorry, but we only had 4 QB hits, and zero sacks. That was on a suspect O-Line. 

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Back when Polian had his radio show, he was responding to the constant criticism that the small DTs he would draft for the Tampa 2 allowed other teams to run all over the colts.  He said that the inherent problem with a 34 defense is that you have to MANUFACTURE a pass rush, because the three DLs basically provide no pass rush.  They are there to stop the run.

 

Redding, Chapman, RJF, and Jones aren't going to provide much pass rush.  Mathis was consistently able to apply pressure last year (of course he may have been juiced), but the personnel is now more set up to stop the run. 

 

You need to apply pressure from the LBs, but with so many receivers in the pattern and with short drops, sophisticated Os are going to beat that for big plays.

 

Os have been attacking the Colts LBs and Safetys for 2 seasons now.

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The Jags sacked Foles 5x last week, and a 3rd string Tackle kept our best pass rusher in check basically all night. 

 

 

Walden did a lot better, and I'm not giving up on Werner yet, but dang, last night was pretty pathetic as far as pass rush. Don't give me any garbage about doom and gloom and overreacting either...it's an absolutely legitimate concern. 

 

 

I realize Grigs wants to roll with what we have, but what can we do about this? 

 

Give Newsome, Chris Carter more opportunity? 

Are there any free agents worth a crap? 

Trade someone? 

What else? 

When you say "our best pass rusher" I take it that you're referring to Werner? Well, at least for most of the game, Werner was on the other side of the field going against an All-pro LT. The first two weeks Werner has played against Clady and Peters so I think judgment should be reserved until after he finally receives the opportunity to play against a player that isn't an All-pro left tackle.

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When you say "our best pass rusher" I take it that you're referring to Werner? Well, at least for most of the game, Werner was on the other side of the field going against an All-pro LT. The first two weeks Werner has played against Clady and Peters so I think judgment should be reserved until after he finally receives the opportunity to play against a player that isn't an All-pro left tackle.

 

Walden and Werner switched sides quite a few times. 

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The Jags sacked Foles 5x last week, and a 3rd string Tackle kept our best pass rusher in check basically all night. 

 

 

Walden did a lot better, and I'm not giving up on Werner yet, but dang, last night was pretty pathetic as far as pass rush. Don't give me any garbage about doom and gloom and overreacting either...it's an absolutely legitimate concern. 

 

 

I realize Grigs wants to roll with what we have, but what can we do about this? 

 

Give Newsome, Chris Carter more opportunity? 

Are there any free agents worth a crap? 

Trade someone? 

What else? 

 

Couldnt agree more, Pass rush was non existent. Foles had too much time, we need a solution fast. 

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This is going to be out problem for the rest of the year. I don't think free agency is the answer, as there aren't any difference makers that I see available.

 

I think we're SOL for this season and I don't think well be trading.

 

Not many big names in FA, and the ones that are, are simply washed up either someone decides they want to man up and be taht pass rush specialist or Grigs makes a move. 

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I didn't realize you base your views on games by what the commentators say. 

 

Sorry, but we only had 4 QB hits, and zero sacks. That was on a suspect O-Line. 

 

My point was even they noticed we had some.  smh

 

And how many tackles for a loss did we have?  4 because our guys were in the backfield.

 

Point is, we had pressure, not zero. 

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On an interesting note, Eagles 1st round pick of 2014 OLB Marcus Smith was inactive last night and he didn't play a snap vs Jacksonville. I remember the FO was very interested in him Pre Draft and many people on this board were hoping we'd take him. Could he be worth a go?

 

Wonder why he was inactive? 

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My point was even they noticed we had some.  smh

 

And how many tackles for a loss did we have?  4 because our guys were in the backfield.

 

Point is, we had pressure, not zero. 

 

Shake your head til it falls off...that doesn't change the fact that we still had zero sacks. 

 

I love the tackles for a loss, but you rattle the QB with sacks. That's one of the reasons why Foles played like garbage in the first half of the Jags game. 

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The pass rush is going to be an issue now until the rest of the season unless Werner or maybe Newsome steps up. Even if one or both does, no one is going to replace what Mathis brought to this defense.

 

Give any quarterback all day in the pocket, he is going to find someone open. And I fear that the rest of the season, the Colts are going to make average quarterbacks look like pro bowlers because of the lack of pressure.

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When you say "our best pass rusher" I take it that you're referring to Werner? Well, at least for most of the game, Werner was on the other side of the field going against an All-pro LT. The first two weeks Werner has played against Clady and Peters so I think judgment should be reserved until after he finally receives the opportunity to play against a player that isn't an All-pro left tackle.

Granted but he has to find away when playing good olines as well. He doesn't need to b great just good.

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The Colts have no answer to the loss of Mathis.  The only hint of pressure came from Walden working against a third-string tackle. That "zero" pass rush also exposed some real weaknesses in the LBs in pass coverage situations.  D'Q Jackson looked alright against the run, but was completely overmatched when asked to drop back in coverage, and McNary didn't fare much better.  

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Shake your head til it falls off...that doesn't change the fact that we still had zero sacks. 

 

I love the tackles for a loss, but you rattle the QB with sacks. That's one of the reasons why Foles played like garbage in the first half of the Jags game. 

 

We didn't have sacks, but we had hits on the QB, maybe 1 second faster for a few of them would have been sacks.  There weren't any sacks on Luck either, but they got pressure on him.  Same with the Colts, we got some pressure on them.

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The Jags sacked Foles 5x last week, and a 3rd string Tackle kept our best pass rusher in check basically all night. 

 

 

Walden did a lot better, and I'm not giving up on Werner yet, but dang, last night was pretty pathetic as far as pass rush. Don't give me any garbage about doom and gloom and overreacting either...it's an absolutely legitimate concern. 

 

 

I realize Grigs wants to roll with what we have, but what can we do about this? 

 

Give Newsome, Chris Carter more opportunity? 

Are there any free agents worth a crap? 

Trade someone? 

What else? 

Most people here keep saying not to give up on Werner yet. If not now, then when? This guy give no pass rush and no pressure on the QB at all. He is a complete zero in this area and for the life of me I cannot see why everyone doesn't just say "bust" and get him out of here.

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We were not getting good pressure in the first half last night, Sometimes during a replay Gruden will make a comment, as if what happened on the previous play has been going on the whole game, it did not!! at no point in the game or (this season) have we pressured the QB. The sad thing is, with what we have, we can not generate much of a pass rush. The Eagles O-line has huge problems, but not against us, if we can't produce a pass rush against this team in its current condition (with this QB) we may have the worst pass rush in the NFL. The COLTS are my team, and I will pull for them with all my heart, but This is a passing league, and if you can't rush the passer, you can't be a true contender. "plain and simple" unless a couple of guys step up and completely turn this thing around, we are doomed by our lack of pass rush.

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My point was even they noticed we had some.  smh

 

And how many tackles for a loss did we have?  4 because our guys were in the backfield.

 

Point is, we had pressure, not zero. 

We had penetration in the run game. I didn't see any semblance of a pass rush. Haven't seen any in these first 2 games. Werner has not yet appeared to me to have much in the way of pass rush moves. Robert Mathis type players don't grow on trees. I'd say the #1 need in the offseason is Rush LB. Mathis is in the twilight of his career and who knows what he'll look like after the Achilles injury.

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I agree with no pass rush this team isn't going anywhere. Like you I'd rather not trade a draft pick for either a guy who isn't already producing or an older "rent a player" type of pass rusher. I'd rather Grigson move up in the draft next year to get one if he has too.

What you said about Werner is spot on. I am not ready to give up on him yet but he's shown nothing to this point to give fans hope.

Walden did a good job last night but I think that was product of match up than it was him. That third string tackle was clearly over his head.

The only way the Colts have shown they can get to the QB is with a blitz which leaves you exposed big time on screen which we saw the Eagles exploit big time last night. Which means other teams will until we show we can stop it.

I'd say being Sam in off the Cowboys practice squad and see what he has, he can't be worse than what we have right now in terms of being a pass rusher. Maybe he won't work in a 3/4 then you just release him and say hey it didn't work we gave him a fair shot. It cost nothing to get him and he's shown he has a high motor that helps him get to the QB. It's a very low risk could be high reward move.

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We were not getting good pressure in the first half last night, Sometimes during a replay Gruden will make a comment, as if what happened on the previous play has been going on the whole game, it did not!! at no point in the game or (this season) have we pressured the QB. The sad thing is, with what we have, we can not generate much of a pass rush. The Eagles O-line has huge problems, but not against us, if we can't produce a pass rush against this team in its current condition (with this QB) we may have the worst pass rush in the NFL. The COLTS are my team, and I will pull for them with all my heart, but This is a passing league, and if you can't rush the passer, you can't be a true contender. "plain and simple" unless a couple of guys step up and completely turn this thing around, we are doomed by our lack of pass rush.

Gruden has the tendency to exaggerate.  Walden had a couple of pressures but mostly, Foles missed some throws.

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The Jags sacked Foles 5x last week, and a 3rd string Tackle kept our best pass rusher in check basically all night.

Walden did a lot better, and I'm not giving up on Werner yet, but dang, last night was pretty pathetic as far as pass rush. Don't give me any garbage about doom and gloom and overreacting either...it's an absolutely legitimate concern.

I realize Grigs wants to roll with what we have, but what can we do about this?

Give Newsome, Chris Carter more opportunity?

Are there any free agents worth a crap?

Trade someone?

What else?

We should just wait it out. No more trading draft picks lol. YouTube Shawn Oakman. 6'9" 280LB pass rusher. I'd like to see us do something like the Browns and Rams have done recently and find a way to get extra Draft picks in the early round. We need a stud C and a Pass Rusher capable of 12+ sacks a year.

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Most people here keep saying not to give up on Werner yet. If not now, then when? This guy give no pass rush and no pressure on the QB at all. He is a complete zero in this area and for the life of me I cannot see why everyone doesn't just say "bust" and get him out of here.

Oh idk...maybe not in his 2nd game of his 2nd season?? He's getting dumped on so far, but we're trying to use him as our main pass rush threat. That's not the type of player he is. Use him more like Paul Kruger and Werner will be effective...who other then Werner right now for us is a threat to get to the QB?? Find someone to be a constant threat and that'll open things up for Werner.

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Walden was against a 3rd string lineman and couldnt get a sack or pressure. C'MON MAN. You guys sayin wait til werner isnt against an all pro lineman. I say good players still get sacks against all pros. Therefore hes not that good.. he cant even get pressure let alone a sack. Yeah lets wait til werner goes against somebody not good? What kinda reasoning is that? Its not what u do against bad players its what u do against good teams and players

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This is a serious problem.

 

Especially since our LBs & safeties are average in coverage, at best.

 

We need to make a move for a playmaker.

 

I think you're giving our safeties too much credit by saying they're average.

 

Finding a playmaker now is nearly impossible.  Even if Mathis comes back next year, it's a stop gap considering his age.  It needs to be a FA priority for next season. 

 

I'm not giving up on this season, but I don't see anyone stepping up.

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       I know this will be said over and over again on here. But when Mathis was suspended I thought we would go 2-2 in the first four. We would lose our first two and I still believe we will win our next two. But now with Mathis out for the season I think we need to be looking for a high draft pick and draft a pass rusher to replace Mathis who will be 34 next year. I also think that Pep Hamilton stinks as a o-coordinator and needs replaced his play calling last night was beyond horrendous I wasn't sure what game he was watching.

 

       I do believe Luck is a great QB and will eventually be a Hall of Famer. But right now the pressure at times rattles him and he sometimes makes bad decisions.  

 

By the way if we had Mathis last night we would have won easily. IMO

 

Werner is not getting it done! Does anyone else think this guy was a bad draft pick especially in the

first round or is it to early to tell? 

 

 

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I'd say being Sam in off the Cowboys practice squad and see what he has, he can't be worse than what we have right now in terms of being a pass rusher. Maybe he won't work in a 3/4 then you just release him and say hey it didn't work we gave him a fair shot. It cost nothing to get him and he's shown he has a high motor that helps him get to the QB. It's a very low risk could be high reward move.

At this point it's worth a try even if he's only used in passing situations he can still play with his hand in the dirt not much different than DE in 4/3 . We need to do something I'm not sure what really but I'm for trying anything that could help get some pressure on the QB .

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I agree with no pass rush this team isn't going anywhere. Like you I'd rather not trade a draft pick for either a guy who isn't already producing or an older "rent a player" type of pass rusher. I'd rather Grigson move up in the draft next year to get one if he has too.

What you said about Werner is spot on. I am not ready to give up on him yet but he's shown nothing to this point to give fans hope.

Walden did a good job last night but I think that was product of match up than it was him. That third string tackle was clearly over his head.

The only way the Colts have shown they can get to the QB is with a blitz which leaves you exposed big time on screen which we saw the Eagles exploit big time last night. Which means other teams will until we show we can stop it.

I'd say being Sam in off the Cowboys practice squad and see what he has, he can't be worse than what we have right now in terms of being a pass rusher. Maybe he won't work in a 3/4 then you just release him and say hey it didn't work we gave him a fair shot. It cost nothing to get him and he's shown he has a high motor that helps him get to the QB. It's a very low risk could be high reward move.

I have seen nothing from Sam to make me think he is better than who we have now. And Yes, it does cost something to get him and that is a roster spot, but, how is he on special teams ? get rid of Harvey to make room for him ??

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Honestly, most of our pass rush last season was Mathis and he's gone, someone has to step up. Walden can step up and make plays but I'd definitely love sacks. With Art Jones down, we definitely need something, trade or not, because pass rush is one of the worst problems we have on defense.

Your avatar looks like Summer Rae.

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