REPORT: Adrian Peterson indicted on child abuse...

[Coltsman1788]

Yeah, I suppose things are different depending who your parents and grandparents are. You're one of the lucky ones, though I actually never got many myself. My sister and cousins, on the other hand....

A child is lucky for never being spanked?  I don't know about that. Spare the rod and spoil the child.

[Sports Central1]

A child is lucky for never being spanked?  I don't know about that. Spare the rod and spoil the child.

 

So it's that extreme and that black and white?  You're either a kid who misbehaves and needs to get whipped or you're a spoiled kid?

 

What about all the kids who are well behaved who aren't spoiled?

[Coltsman1788]

So it's that extreme and that black and white?  You're either a kid who misbehaves and needs to get whipped or you're a spoiled kid?

 

What about all the kids who are well behaved who aren't spoiled?

As far as the quote in my initial post goes...it is no more extreme than the implication that those kids who were never spanked were some how lucky.  

[Qwiz]

A child is lucky for never being spanked?  I don't know about that. Spare the rod and spoil the child.

I don't know. I can honestly count on my fingers how many times I was spanked and I turned out just fine and was a great kid. And I was good even before I knew what a spanking was. There are kids who definitely need the "rod", though, no doubt, otherwise they will end up walking all over their parents. It is sad to see.

[Malakai432]

Or all the gangshootings that happen hourly were the gang member was raised in a broken Home and not "sheltered" whatsoever.

 

Not necessarily the case, many violent offenders, gang members, ect grow up in single parent households actually living with their mother, grandmother, or other relatives.  One of the reasons they become the people they are is due to a lack of a father figure.  Often it's the influence of friends and the poverty stricken conditions/rough areas they grow up in that mold them into who they are, most of all their own choices. 

 

I do agree however there is a big time difference than physically disciplining your children vs abuse, neglect ect.  Over the years however those lines are getting thinner and thinner. 

[SIXTHOBJECT]

If my kids do something wrong or dont listen to me they better fear me.

I would rather whip my kid and they listen to me then to run out in front of a car and get hit because they didnt. Kids these days are know it alls and disrespectful brats that need there behinds whipped.

Although abuse is a different story.

[LordHelpOurColts]

Bobbycovert, on 13 Sept 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Because one cute photo can tell you all you need to know about a man's character...

 

 

Because one incident of a man disciplining his child tells you all you need to know about a man's character.

[LordHelpOurColts]

When people defend this mans actions.....after they have seen the photos of what happened to a little 4 year old....I am ashamed of our species.

 

Let me tell you something, you know how easily a four-year-old's skin bruises? It's like tissue paper. You think Adrian was swinging that switch as hard as he could? You're nuts if you think that. It is so easy to create a mark using a device like that. Don't believe me? Go outside and get a tree branch and then hit yourself with it. You barely even have to use any force at all to leave a mark. You people are naïve.

[LordHelpOurColts]

You sir are disappointing

 

 

Nope. I'm exactly correct.

[Bobbycovert]

Let me tell you something, you know how easily a four-year-old's skin bruises? It's like tissue paper. You think Adrian was swinging that switch as hard as he could? You're nuts if you think that. It is so easy to create a mark using a device like that. Don't believe me? Go outside and get a tree branch and then hit yourself with it. You barely even have to use any force at all to leave a mark. You people are naïve.

Oh, I understand now. Its not that AP showed incredibly poor judgement and self control while disciplining his child. The real problem is that four year olds are so easy to injure. Also, if its so easy to injure someone with a tree branch maybe just maybe they shouldn't be used to hit people, especially small people who are already easily injured. 2+2=4

[Bobbycovert]

Bobbycovert, on 13 Sept 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Because one cute photo can tell you all you need to know about a man's character...

 

 

Because one incident of a man disciplining his child tells you all you need to know about a man's character.

I was not surprised to find out that you missed the point of my post.

[Gavin]

So it's that extreme and that black and white?  You're either a kid who misbehaves and needs to get whipped or you're a spoiled kid?

 

What about all the kids who are well behaved who aren't spoiled?

At 4 years old? Thats not realistic to think a kid will behave at that age in the overwhelming majority of cases, Im one of the ones that think Peterson went a bit overboard whipping the kids backs, arms, and thighs but I'd hardly call it abuse, Intent should be taken into account, Obviously I don't know Peterson but he seems from all indications cooperating with authorities, I'd venture to say his intent was far from abuse

[NFLfan]

I also don't appreciate your tone. I'm not going to discuss this with you further. I don't get the impression that you are here to share information. It feels like your mission here is to be abrasive. Tone it down a touch.

You expressed exactly what I have wanted to say to this poster in the past few weeks and you did that respectfully. Thank you. I also appreciate all your other posts about effective forms of discipline.

As for Peterson, I am hopeful that he will be open to learning new ways to discipline his children. Tree branches should not be used to beat any human being, let alone a child.

[Sports Central1]

At 4 years old? Thats not realistic to think a kid will behave at that age in the overwhelming majority of cases, Im one of the ones that think Peterson went a bit overboard whipping the kids backs, arms, and thighs but I'd hardly call it abuse, Intent should be taken into account, Obviously I don't know Peterson but he seems from all indications cooperating with authorities, I'd venture to say his intent was far from abuse

 

 

Ever thought the reason why he's cooperating with the authorities is because he's a multimillionaire and has a very good lawyer who told him to and is counseling him?

 

What did you expect him to do?  Go on the run as a fugitive and flee the country?  I think his choices are pretty limited.

[Bobbycovert]

You expressed exactly what I have wanted to say to this poster in the past few weeks and you did that respectfully. Thank you. I also appreciate all your other posts about effective forms of discipline.

As for Peterson, I am hopeful that he will be open to learning new ways to discipline his children. Tree branches should not be used to beat any human being, let alone a child.

It seems like a situation where a bit of counseling could make a huge difference. I don't necessarily think AP is a bad guy or a bad father but he did make a pretty big mistake. Though this is an extreme case, I imagine a lot of parents have swatted a child harder than they intended and left a mark. I'm sure they regret it instantly and take steps to avoid it happening again. I think that's all a lot of people want for AP. An admission that he blew it and he is learning to do things differently would be nice. So far he doesn't seem to get it, which is disturbing.

[Bobbycovert]

You expressed exactly what I have wanted to say to this poster in the past few weeks and you did that respectfully. Thank you. I also appreciate all your other posts about effective forms of discipline.

As for Peterson, I am hopeful that he will be open to learning new ways to discipline his children. Tree branches should not be used to beat any human being, let alone a child.

It seems like a situation where a bit of counseling could make a huge difference. I don't necessarily think AP is a bad guy or a bad father but he did make a pretty big mistake. Though this is an extreme case, I imagine a lot of parents have swatted a child harder than they intended and left a mark. I'm sure they regret it instantly and take steps to avoid it happening again. I think that's all a lot of people want for AP. An admission that he blew it and he is learning to do things differently would be nice. So far he doesn't seem to get it, which is disturbing.

*** this was posted twice for some reason... I blame this goofy iPad I'm using***

[Sports Central1]

The media released the emails or text messages that AP wrote.  AP was talking like he was some figure trying to strike fear and intimidation into his kids, not to try to teach and educate them to make them better people, but to make them fear him.

 

The guy is nuts, that's clear psychotic behavior.  He's a bad father and not a good role model.

[Sports Central1]

Another thing, stop using the words "whooping" or "spanking".  We're not talking about that.  We're talking about AP beating and slashing his kid's body that lead to around 15 open wounds and he leaves some sadistic email about striking fear into his kids as if they're rowdy 15 year old's, but the child is a toddler.  If that happened to a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay that's a war crime under international law.

 

Pretty cowardly to hit a little child, wait till he's a 16 year old linebacker in high school and then try to hit him after he took your car keys out on a joy ride while drunk.  Parents hit kids when they're small because they can, the child isn't strong enough to pose a big enough threat to the parent to fight back.

[NFLfan]

It seems like a situation where a bit of counseling could make a huge difference. I don't necessarily think AP is a bad guy or a bad father but he did make a pretty big mistake. Though this is an extreme case, I imagine a lot of parents have swatted a child harder than they intended and left a mark. I'm sure they regret it instantly and take steps to avoid it happening again. I think that's all a lot of people want for AP. An admission that he blew it and he is learning to do things differently would be nice. So far he doesn't seem to get it, which is disturbing.

I have not read much from Peterson. He reportedly said that this is how he was disciplined and he believes it worked for him. I have not heard anything else from him. He will have to go to counseling and parenting classes.

Like you and Nadine, I studied human behavior in graduate school. Unfortunately, many people, including many foreigners, believe that corporal punishment is best. I know that in the past, juries have acquitted parents of child abuse if they prove that the mode of corporal punishment is cultural. As you see on this board, many posters have reported that they received corporal punishment. I attended parochial school for 11 years and teachers would routinely hit some of the more unruly classmates. Teachers were never charged with child abuse. Looking back on those years, I wonder how that was allowed.

[BrentMc11]

Well said, as usual. Your son has great parents.

My siblings and I all received spankings and other forms of punishment. It was never viewed as abuse. My siblings, however, do not spank their children. I once spanked my niece and I got a scolding from my sister. Times have changed.

Like you, I will wait for more facts to come out before passing judgment on Adrian Peterson. Hopefully the child is safe.

Just like me, NFLfan.  I was spanked a ton when I was growing up.  Maybe why my butt has been swollen ever since  HA HA!

 

As a parent I have not spanked the kids.  I am so proud because I have their respect.

[BrentMc11]

I have not read much from Peterson. He reportedly said that this is how he was disciplined and he believes it worked for him. I have not heard anything else from him. He will have to go to counseling and parenting classes.

Like you and Nadine, I studied human behavior in graduate school. Unfortunately, many people, including many foreigners, believe that corporal punishment is best. I know that in the past, juries have acquitted parents of child abuse if they prove that the mode of corporal punishment is cultural. As you see on this board, many posters have reported that they received corporal punishment. I attended parochial school for 11 years and teachers would routinely hit some of the more unruly classmates. Teachers were never charged with child abuse. Looking back on those years, I wonder how that was allowed.

I forgot to mention....my dad was a principal with a holey paddle.....I got paddled 2 times in school...was not near as bad as that holey paddle...

[Sports Central1]

Just like me, NFLfan.  I was spanked a ton when I was growing up.  Maybe why my butt has been swollen ever since  HA HA!

 

As a parent I have not spanked the kids.  I am so proud because I have their respect.

 

Would you spank a 14 to 16 year old child living under your house or coward out and call the cops?  Parents hit children when they're small enough who can't fight back.

 

If you hit a child for something at 4 years old, would you hit them if they did the same bad thing if they were a teenager?  Or is it call the police dept time?

[BrentMc11]

Would you spank a 14 to 16 year old child living under your house or coward out and call the cops?  Parents hit children when they're small enough who can't fight back.

 

If you hit a child for something at 4 years old, would you hit them if they did the same bad thing if they were a teenager?  Or is it call the police dept time?

I would not ever let it come to that Sports Central.  I give very clear expectations to the kids and my young adult as well.  I am too smart to let it escalate.  I think one of our problems being discussed here involves someone who really loses/lost his temper.  If I get really mad I walk away for a cool down period.  Then come back and talk sensibly and ask them WHY their behavior is poor.

 

Open ended non leading questions, listening and good follow up works, even for an old Linebacker who never had kids of his own until now.

 

Mr Peterson should try it...it works.

[southwest1]

I read what I could about this.  As far as I can tell Peterson may have intended to just discipline his son but his actions were beyond excessive.  No idea what the league should do...its a really difficult situation.

 

 

 

Also, after reading some of the other comments I wanted to clear up some misinformation: 

 

    Corporal punishment is not particularly useful or effective in correcting "bad" behavior.  I'm a behavior therapist and I've worked with children with significant behavior problems (aggression, self-injury).  Corporal punishment really benefits the punisher more than the child.  It is quicker/easier to perform and tends to provide instant results.

 

     Unfortunately, the downside is:

• the "instant" results are often short lived
• it can lead to aggressive behavior in children
• it can lead to injury rather easily (it is often misused as an outlet for parental frustration instead of a teaching tool)
• teaching a child by hitting them defies common sense

( For those interested, I'd be happy to provide research that explains the principles behind all of this)

 

In some ways, its really comparable to opening a safe with dynamite rather than taking the extra time to learn and use the combination.  Teaching proper behavior and providing positive reinforcement (Catch them being good) is much more safe, effective, and provides longer lasting results.  In times where punishment is necessary, time-out or a loss of some item/privilege are far superior to striking a child. 

 

Also, there is no legitimate connection between the decline of corporal punishment and increases in violence/lack of discipline in society (correlation does not equal causation).

I get what you're saying BVC & I will concede that positive reinforcement does have some merit, but I was spanked as a kid & I wasn't scarred for life or pursue a career in the seedy underbelly of drugs, guns, or treating women or children without disrespect. Did Adrian go overboard? Yes. Would I deem this marks child abuse in his son's case? Yes. 

 

Here where I differ with you. Say you have a curious child who loves to run & she does pay attention to where she is going & what she is doing. Lets also pretend that you as the father live near a major highway where drivers routinely fly by your house just in front of it at 75-80 MPH. Now, I ask you is a treat, a timeout, or encouragement gonna stop that carefree running girl from running onto the pavement & get struck or god forbid run over by a car or a semi? Fear & a red butt go a long way toward making the little girl think Gee if I go near the pavement I'm gonna get a red behind maybe I should think twice about playing near the highway.

 

Timeouts don't work & bribing a kid with candy is going lead to diabetes later in their life. I'm growing weary of so many people saying that all corporal punishment must cease & desist immediately. It's not realistic & it doesn't help raise responsible well adjusted adults. JMO.

 

I get what your are saying hypothetically BVT & your post does have merit, but it is possible to discipline a child by spanking them which is not child abuse BTW. I remember my red butt lessons well & I was not horrifically scared for life either. And for people who cringe at physical discipline I wanna ask them do they have children of their own? A lot of people who dislike spanking little ones have no children themselves. Naturally, any parent is free to use whatever method they want to teach their children proper behavior provided excessive cruelty is not used.  

[jvan1973]

Would you spank a 14 to 16 year old child living under your house or coward out and call the cops? Parents hit children when they're small enough who can't fight back.

If you hit a child for something at 4 years old, would you hit them if they did the same bad thing if they were a teenager? Or is it call the police dept time?

A swat on the butt for a small child is usually more than enough. If you are having physical bouts with your teenage child, you did something wrong along the way, or the child has a behavioral condition of some kind.

But your assertion that a parent using corporal punishment is because the child can't fight back is ignorant. My mother is 78 years old and wouldn't hesitate to slap my mouth if certain words were to come out in her presence.

[DougDew]

The employer has a right to set in place work place standards and rules.  You can not sexually harass female or male employees.  You can't smoke in most restaurants now.  Many businesses require a dress code.

 

A business has a right to fire an employee if they believe employee is a big enough distraction to the company.  It happens every day in the U.S.

 

In North Carolina the court has been lenient on Greg Hardy.  Greg Hardy was convicted of beating his girlfriend and threatening to kill her and body slamming her on a bed full of weapons.  What he did might have been worse physically and more dangerous than what Rice or Peterson did by body slamming his wife on a bed full of guns.  They're lucky none of those guns went off.

 

I really don't want to rely on courts and judges for everything in life.

But therein lies a problem.  How specific is the company's "personal conduct" policy written, and what is the standard for evidence necessary to take disciplinary action.  Does a company have to prove the employee violated the policy, or can the CEO just "kinda think so".  What is the standard of proof needed.....and where is the due process needed to protect a persons rights

 

In the Rice situation, one could make a decent argument that it was a bar fight escalated to violence, and not really a case of oppressive domestic violence.  What if a white couple had a slightly different situation and the CEO handed out slightly different punishment.  Could someone look at the difference in punishment then argue that race was also an issue?

 

You see, a personal conduct policy can be a backhanded way to practice racism, sexism, or any type of discrimination.

 

The problem isn't the firing of an employee, the problem is the lack of due process BEFORE firing an employee...and the possible lack of proof that the policy was even violated in the first place.

 

Then what does the CEO use...detectives...his review of video evidence...to establish proof?.  How much does it cost to staff an investigative department?  It seems to me that developing and enforcing personal conduct policies may lead to more problems than it solves.  And I'm not really sure it solves any problem anyway...they are basically established to keep a company's image clean...not really to solve anything.

 

I don't want to rely upon a white CEO's review of a secondhand video tape to determine my livlihood.

[BrentMc11]

A swat on the butt for a small child is usually more than enough. If you are having physical bouts with your teenage child, you did something wrong along the way, or the child has a behavioral condition of some kind.

But your assertion that a parent using corporal punishment is because the child can't fight back is ignorant. My mother is 78 years old and wouldn't hesitate to slap my mouth if certain words were to come out in her presence.

That little one must be the size of Vince Wilfork.  Peterson is ONLY...6' 1" and 220....poor kid.

 

Your mom sounds like my ole Pops!!  He is 92.

[Sports Central1]

A swat on the butt for a small child is usually more than enough. If you are having physical bouts with your teenage child, you did something wrong along the way, or the child has a behavioral condition of some kind.

But your assertion that a parent using corporal punishment is because the child can't fight back is ignorant. My mother is 78 years old and wouldn't hesitate to slap my mouth if certain words were to come out in her presence.

 

 

Because I would bet you never hit her back or no one in your family hit her back.  Has she ever had anyone in her family hit her back after she hit them?  The reason why granny feels free to swing away is she never had a child hit her back.  DUH!

 

Plenty of parents won't hit their kid once the kid gets big enough.  They'll call the cops because they know the kid would "whoop" them.

[Sports Central1]

But therein lies a problem.  How specific is the companies "personal conduct" policy written, and what is the standard for evidence necessary to take disciplinary action.  Does a company have to prove the employee violated the policy, or can the CEO just "kinda think so".  What is the standard of proof needed.....and where is the due process needed to protect a persons rights

 

In the Rice situation, one could make a decent argument that it was a bar fight escalated to violence, and not really a case of oppressive domestic violence.  What if a white couple had a slightly different situation and the CEO handed out slightly different punishment.  Could someone look at the difference in punishment then argue that race was also an issue?

 

You see, a personal conduct policy can be a backhanded way to practice racism, sexism, or any type of discrimination.

 

The problem isn't the firing of an employee, the problem is the lack of due process BEFORE firing an employee...and the possible lack of proof that the policy was even violated in the first place.

 

Then what does the CEO use...detectives...his review of video evidence...to establish proof?.  It seems to me that developing and enforcing personal conduct policies may lead to more problems than it solves.  And I'm not really sure it solves any problem anyway...they are just ways to try to boost a company's image IMO.

 

I don't want to rely upon a white CEO's review of a secondhand video tape to determine my livlihood.

 

Would you rather rely on the jury and judge who sat on the stand during the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin trial?

[jvan1973]

Because I would bet you never hit her back or no one in your family hit her back. Has she ever had anyone in her family hit her back after she hit them? The reason why granny feels free to swing away is she never had a child hit her back. DUH!

Plenty of parents won't hit their kid once the kid gets big enough. They'll call the cops because they know the kid would "whoop" them.

I wouldn't hit her out of respect. Respect that she taught me over many years. Parents who fear their children didn't discipline them in their youth.

[Sports Central1]

I wouldn't hit her out of respect. Respect that she taught me over many years. Parents who fear their children didn't discipline them in their youth.

 

Children who fear their parents weren't raised properly.

 

Parents with alcohol and other drug problems beat children and their wives.  Why would anyone who doesn't have drug issues or mental issues beat a child?

[Sports Central1]

Everyone defending AP, you're painting a picture of your parents having issues who couldn't handle kids, had bad tempers and issues with some substance.

[jvan1973]

Children who fear their parents weren't raised properly.

Parents with alcohol and other drug problems beat children and their wives. Why would anyone who doesn't have drug issues or mental issues beat a child?

Many reasons. Drugs and alcohol aren't the only things that make a parent abusive. Also, not every parent that drinks and does drugs is abusive.. And my children better fear me to some degree. If they do things they aren't supposed to do, there will be consequences.

[jvan1973]

Everyone defending AP, you're painting a picture of your parents having issues who couldn't handle kids, had bad tempers and issues with some substance.

Please point out one person defending Peterson

[Sports Central1]

Many reasons. Drugs and alcohol aren't the only things that make a parent abusive. Also, not every parent that drinks and does drugs is abusive.. And my children better fear me to some degree. If they do things they aren't supposed to do, there will be consequences.

 

And if I saw you "disciplining" your kids and I captured it on my cellphone camera I'll send it to the police and so would many other people.  Enjoy being on the front pages of the newspapers with a photo of you standing in a court of law. But like most cowards you'll wait to get home and lock the kid in a room to beat him, no courage to do it in public.

 

Go ahead, prove your manhood making toddlers fear you.  One tough guy.  And when the kid is 17 mouthing off to you rebelling you won't touch him because he' throw you through your screen door.

[southwest1]

I guess what troubles the most & perhaps this is just my take on this is that a parent cannot reason with a small child in the same way you can with a full fledged adult. #1: Their brains are still developing & #2: Like I've said repeatedly in this thread: Small children comprehend 2 things very well--Fear & Pain.

 

My dad was 6 ft 5, 250 pounds, with gorilla hands & a booming voice. When he was ticked off at you, I knew it as well as my sister. He would tell you by name to settle down & cool off. If you persisted being unruly, he would count to 3. If you got to 3, he gave you a raised eyebrow look as if to say "If you back off now, you can still emerge unscathed. Choose your next actions or words very, very carefully SW1." 

 

If you still pushed the envelope, the crap was about to hit the fan & it was not gonna end well for me meaning a sore red butt not a concussion BTW.

 

Here's my point: My dad gave me ample opportunities to back down with a look or his booming voice & if I decided to live dangerously I deserved my fate. Plus, my dad had long arms & legs & you weren't gonna out run him. I tried that once & failed miserably like a chetah taking down a giselle. LOL! 

[jvan1973]

And if I saw you "disciplining" your kids and I captured it on my cellphone camera I'll send it to the police and so would many other people. Enjoy being on the front pages of the newspapers with a photo of you standing in a court of law. But like most cowards you'll wait to get home and lock the kid in a room to beat him, no courage to do it in public.

Go ahead, prove your manhood making toddlers fear you. One tough guy. And when the kid is 17 mouthing off to you rebelling you won't touch him because he' throw you through your screen door.

Most ridiculous post you've had yet, and that's saying a lot. In your nonsense scenario why don't you put the phone down and man up yourself?

If you had bothered to read the entire thread you would have read that i haven't had a scenario where i have had to spank my kids, but they know it's something i would do if necessary. I'm guessing you don't have kids

[Gavin]

Ever thought the reason why he's cooperating with the authorities is because he's a multimillionaire and has a very good lawyer who told him to and is counseling him?

 

What did you expect him to do?  Go on the run as a fugitive and flee the country?  I think his choices are pretty limited.

Tell that to OJ Simpson and his joy ride he led the authorities on in '94(I was 11 turning 12 at the end of that year but I still remember it well), you think his lawyer told him to do that? A large majority of criminals will try to avoid prison/jail time at all cost....some will turn themselves in of course but many wont cooperate with authorities and offer info themselves and implicate themselves

[Sports Central1]

Most ridiculous post you've had yet, and that's saying a lot. In your nonsense scenario why don't you put the phone down and man up yourself?

If you had bothered to read the entire thread you would have read that i haven't had a scenario where i have had to spank my kids, but they know it's something i would do if necessary. I'm guessing you don't have kids

 

"Most ridiculous post you've had yet, and that's saying a lot. In your nonsense scenario why don't you put the phone down and man up yourself?"

 

I have a few times when I witnessed things that I felt were unjustifiable.  They give me a dirty look.  But today knowing how psycho people are they could pull out a gun.

 

I don't have kids because I don't want any.

[jvan1973]

"Most ridiculous post you've had yet, and that's saying a lot. In your nonsense scenario why don't you put the phone down and man up yourself?"

I have a few times when I witnessed things that I felt were unjustifiable. They give me a dirty look. But today knowing how psycho people are they could pull out a gun.

I don't have kids because I don't want any.

Well until you have a child you have no clue what raising one is like. Not every child responds to being put in timeout.