BREAKING: Ray Rice released by Ravens, suspended indefinitely

[amfootball]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11493722/baltimore-ravens-offer-fans-ray-rice-jersey-exchange

 

Jersey exchange ala Aaron Hernandez ...

[OffensivelyPC]

The difference is, TMZ has no agenda other than profit. All major news outlets espouse a powerful, palatable political agenda. 

 

TMZ simply offers material for the voyeur, do with it as you will. They care not if you believe what you see, or what you make of it. 

It was mainly the usage of "pure" that I took issue with.  Possibly the use of "unfiltered" as well since TMZ is about as bad as anybody when ti comes to being selective with what facts are reported and often throwing context to the wind and what not so that it cna make a story out of nothing. 

[DougDew]

Okay, I've been holding out evidence on you guys.  For months, I've actually had a double-secret copy of the TMZ video that the casino guy edited before he sold it to TMZ.  TMZ only has the last part...I have the first part too, which shows the event sleading up to the elevator. 

 

Here's what I saw:

 

After rehashing several contentious issues the couple has picked at each other with over their relationship since high school, Ray takes the last piece of Boston Creme Pie at the casino buffet after Jayna said she wanted it. 

 

He (as I probably would) looked right at her and opened his eyes and mouth wide and smiled as he stuffed each piece of pie into his mouth, smiling broader (as I probably would) as he saw smoke coming from her ears.

 

All the way down the hall, she curses him about taking that last piece of pie, and he just laughs at her (as I probably would).  She stomps on his toes while she tells him that she wishes he was as tall as Flacco, he uses the C word, she uses the N word, he spits, she slaps, he punches.

 

Yes, I can see why serious, busy, multibillionaire professionals want to sort this out and feel compelled to issue an anti-domestic violence policy due to this event.

[NFLfan]

Okay, fair enough. I made a false assumption there. My apologies.

Okay, apologies accepted. No worries.

[NFLfan]

Okay, fair enough. I made a false assumption there. My apologies.

Keith Olbermann is a bright guy & I do enjoy listening to him from time to time. It's just that when he gets in his preachy, pulpit mode sometimes his ego makes me tune out. There's a fine line between passion, self confidence, & holier than thou absolutism, which probably accounts for why he's been fired & hired back. He knows how to get a rise & reaction of people just like Howard Stern. He knows what buttons to push & when to push them. He's quite good at it actually.

I thought you posted the video about Keith's rant about what the league knew & when they knew it, but if I made that mistake, I will own up to it.

My problem with firing someone prior to facing a prison sentence is that we in this nation are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. Once that happens, terminate the contract not before then. Firing a guy outright without due process infringes on Mr. Ray's constitutional rights & it shoves the problem of domestic violence deeper underground which makes the problem much worse.

True, right now there is no prison sentence on the horizon I will admit that, but I don't like how some people are so quick to crucify a person prior to knowing all the facts. Gathering information is a methodical, slow, & time consuming process that must be handled correctly with no witch hunts automatically assuming every guy is a caboose hole immediately out of the gate.

Okay, apologies accepted. No worries.

[Buck Showalter]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11493722/baltimore-ravens-offer-fans-ray-rice-jersey-exchange

 

Jersey exchange ala Aaron Hernandez ...

You think Indy will do this for my Richardson Jersey?.?.?.

 

before I get flamed, it was a Christmas present...

[ruksak]

Just curious, how did Dana White deal with the whole 'War Machine' ordeal???

huh....?

[Buck Showalter]

huh....?

just being silly...

 

guess some MMA fighter who goes by War Machine, pummeled his girlfriend too, but I think that guy is in a Vegas Jail now, or something...

 

but that guy has been banned from UFC & MMA for violent outbursts for some time now...

 

Rightfully so, but somewhat ironic...

[ruksak]

just being silly...

 

guess some MMA fighter who goes by War Machine, pummeled his girlfriend too, but I think that guy is in a Vegas Jail now, or something...

 

but that guy has been banned from UFC & MMA for violent outbursts for some time now...

 

Rightfully so, but somewhat ironic...

oohhhh. Yeah. I recall. Didn't get the reference and was SMH. Sounded to me like he actually intended to murder her, and she slipped away. 

 

Hope that piece of garbage gets killed in prison, to be honest. 

[NFLfan]

I'm not saying the NFL shouldn't punish him. I'm saying that the collective interest in people in what the NFL's punishment is blinds us to the real problem which is that the prosecutors and courts let him off that easily.

It's just a set of really messed up priorities which leads the public to question what the NFL is doing about domestic violence and not ask the question about what our courts are doing about it.

When Aaron Hernandez was charged with murder, I wasn't real concerned as to if Goodell was going to suspend him, I don't even know if he did or not and quite frankly I don't care.

But I do care if he gets a fair trial and if he's convicted if his punishment will fit his crime. If those things happen I'm happy, I don't care if Goodell suspends him or not.

I get you and I agree. The prosecutor dropped the ball. If Rice was prosecuted and punished by the courts, I would not care about the response from the NFL.

As many on this board and elsewhere have suggested, the NFL seems interested only in minimizing the fallout from this incident. That is why the NFL suspended Rice indefinitely only after the latest video was made public. While I believe Rice should do jail time, I also believe he should be given the opportunity to come back and redeem himself, as Vick and others have done.

[hawkeyes]

Sick of hearing about this all over the news - every outlet out for nothing more than ratings!

 

The video changed nothing about the story!  Where have the been the last month?

 

I agree the NFL is only interested in saving face - they knew what happened from the get go yet they chose to only hand out 2 game suspension - the video didn't change a thing!  This is nothing more than a popularity slaying - everyone piling on because its the popular thing to do!  

 

He was in the wrong and should have faced criminal charges - this is not about the NFL!

 

The NFL is becoming horribly pathetic in the way they handle these type of issues!

 

I can not stand Olbermann; but his rant about all those who should lose their jobs is spot on!!!

[jvan1973]

Good thing for Brandon Marshall social media wasn't what it is now in 2007

[Superman]

The difference is, TMZ has no agenda other than profit. All major news outlets espouse a powerful, palatable political agenda. 

 

TMZ simply offers material for the voyeur, do with it as you will. They care not if you believe what you see, or what you make of it. 

 

I disagree. TMZ gins up controversy, formulates their opinion on the topic, distributes their opinion, then shows you what they want you to see. They create a bias toward their own viewpoint, and they present that viewpoint as fact, along with whatever source material they are showing you.

 

Just like how they claim to have evidence that proves that the NFL either saw the video or could have seen the video before yesterday, but covered it up instead. They had to grandstand, present their opinion, tell you "wait til tomorrow, boys and girls, it's juicy!!!", and then they present you with their own claims instead of anything concrete.

 

They are in the gossip/entertainment business. They have shown that they can do part of the investigative journalism thing -- uncover material that no one was supposed to see/hear/know about -- and they do that well. But the part where you present fact, rather than your own opinion, they don't have that part down just yet. They present their opinion as fact, without sufficient evidence to prove that their opinions are true.

[Poster X]

How could Godell see evidence that was withheld from him

The NFL is not a court...they dont have trials

How is it that the NFL couldn't get it, but TMZ could? If the evidence was withheld from them they should have fought for it then acted, but instead they acted hoping it would go away... and they could wash their hands of the issue. They are not a court, but they are a entity that needs to look at everything because acting to rashly could cause problems like taking no action at all then having it come back to but you in the *. They are a lot of questions that will hopefully be answered when all is said and done. 

[Poster X]

You think Indy will do this for my Richardson Jersey?.?.?.

 

before I get flamed, it was a Christmas present...

 

Very Classy, putting a player you don't like in the same class with a man who very likely murdered multiple people. What a stupid comment. 

/blocked

[Superman]

How is it that the NFL couldn't get it, but TMZ could? If the evidence was withheld from them they should have fought for it then acted, but instead they acted hoping it would go away... and they could wash their hands of the issue. They are not a court, but they are a entity that needs to look at everything because acting to rashly could cause problems like taking no action at all then having it come back to but you in the butt. They are a lot of questions that will hopefully be answered when all is said and done. 

 

Define "fought for it." 

[John Dee]

Did you NOT read the word "comical" in my post?   And "farce" ..

 

The NFL has NO right passing judgement on social issues.     NOT ANY.

 

BUT when a player is suspended 4 games for marijuana use and RAY RICE gets 2 games for CLOCKING his LADY...   ?   wth , that is EXACTLY where JD is coming from.....   and yes I just went 3rd person..  hhehee

 

But seriously.    the NFL has NO business trying to set moral standards because they are some of the worst role models on the face of this EARTH. 

 

This whole deal is just a huge black eye for the "sheild" ..       Whatever...   I really hope GODell gets fired over how PATHETIC  he looks in this whole issue.    He is a clown.

 

 

In the end tho...    normal folk getting a sobering look at a "grown man" just tagging his girl point blank ...  will in the end wind up to be a good thing.       Because any JOKER now  who "behind closed doors" will not skate with a TWO GAME SUSPENSION. 

 

Ray Rice just had the pleasure of being the first.   Couldn't have happened to a better scum bag.

 

I have not even addressed his reaction immediately after he :"knocked his girl out UNCONSCIOUS"    ........      SIGH..      Just wow..

John.,.Don't fall into the trap of asking the NFL to solve social problems and stop crime..

That's what the courts are for..

We don't ask any other private corporation to stop or punish crime and criminals, do we?

[John Dee]

A lot of dudes are sweating this issue...

Good thing for Brandon Marshall social media wasn't what it is now in 2007

[DougDew]

Well, we are about ready to close out the issue.  How can I tell?  Its come almost as far as what I thought it would about six months ago.  Some of the statements made last night and today:

 

Chris Carter:  "Domestic violence is a huge issue in this country"  (maybe he means it is in his world)

 

Goodell:  "We embrace the notion that people expect more from us and relish our role as being leaders of society"  (do-gooders like that idea...its better to get a rich powerful company to champion causes than it is to spend their own money to do it)

 

And last night on CNN, they had a panel of 4 fat wrinkled tired old hippies rehashing the same tired issues they have for 50 years when they were answering the question "Can an abusive man really change?" (That question adopts the basic 1960's marxist pillar that oppression is the norm.)

 

Of course, this issue won't officially close until the "soft" prosecution of Rice becomes the direct fault of Governor Chris Christie.

 

People are really naive if they didn't see this coming six months ago, and they should now know the reasons why a bar fight amongst spouses got so overblown.  Poor Ray and Jayna.  Parasites are everywhere.

 

[John Dee]

Well, we are about ready to close out the issue.  How can I tell?  Its come almost as far as what I thought it would about six months ago.  Some of the statements made last night and today:

 

Chris Carter:  "Domestic violence is a huge issue in this country"  (maybe he means it is in his world)

 

Goodell:  "We embrace the notion that people expect more from us and relish our role as being leaders of society"  (do-gooders like that idea...its better to get a rich powerful company to champion causes than it is to spend their own money to do it)

 

And last night on CNN, they had a panel of 4 fat wrinkled tired old hippies rehashing the same tired issues they have for 50 years when they were answering the question "Can an abusive man really change?" (That question adopts the basic 1960's marxist pillar that oppression is the norm.)

 

Of course, this issue won't officially close until the "soft" prosecution of Rice becomes the direct fault of Governor Chris Christie.

 

People are really naive if they didn't see this coming six months ago, and they should now know the reasons why a bar fight amongst spouses got so overblown.  Poor Ray and Jayna.  Parasites are everywhere.

We heard you the first time you posted the same text... 

[John Dee]

How about this angle?    

 

Have ANY of you EVER known a couple where the female was abusive to the male?    I would love to hear because a VERY good friend of mine lived domestic abuse for 20 years.     The female "BEATING ON the male" ...   It happens.   

 

This entire issue has sooooo many angles.    

 

 

I really think is boils down to respect.      between the relationships.    A totally polarizing topic. 

[Valpo2004]

I get you and I agree. The prosecutor dropped the ball. If Rice was prosecuted and punished by the courts, I would not care about the response from the NFL.

As many on this board and elsewhere have suggested, the NFL seems interested only in minimizing the fallout from this incident. That is why the NFL suspended Rice indefinitely only after the latest video was made public. While I believe Rice should do jail time, I also believe he should be given the opportunity to come back and redeem himself, as Vick and others have done.

 

I don't think they are saying it but I believe that prior to this the NFL was given a different story about what happened in the elevator and the fact that the law let him off so easily only seemed to give creedence to that.

 

Rice's wife has been supporting him the whole time.  So say they cooked up a watered down version of events to save his career.  Perhaps one where she started the altercation (considering they where both initially charged with assault this could be a likely scenario)

 

So they both give this story to the police, to Goodell and to the Ravens.  Well the prosecutor goes ahead and gives him a deal where all he has to do is take a class and they don't even charge him with a crime.  Goodell and the Ravens can't seem to get ahold of that video but they are listening to what Rice and his wife are telling them and then they see the prosecutor and courts is blowing it off like it's a minor traffic ticket.  

 

What are they suppose to think, they have no reason to think that the story they are being told isn't a factual one.

 

This is why I think the prosecutor is the one that dropped the ball on this one.  The NFL doesn't have the legal authority to demand that video, however a knocked out woman in an elevator is enough to get a court order that the casino has to turn over the video.  So either the prosecutor saw the video and didn't care and isn't interested in punishing people who commit assault or he/she didn't see the video and is incompetent. 

 

That's why I say people should be most mad at the prosecutor's office.  Because I think the NFL took their cues from them.  

[Gramz]

How about this angle?    

 

Have ANY of you EVER know a couple where the female was abusive to the male?    I would love to hear because a VERY good friend of mine lived domestic abuse for 20 years.     The female "BEATING ON the male" ...   It happens.   

 

This entire issue has sooooo many angles.    

 

 

I really think is boils down to respect.      between the relationships.    A totally polarizing topic. 

I get what you're saying that it is Not always the male that is the aggressor or abuser,  Once again I might ask,  WHY on Earth would he stay in a relationship like that for 20 years...???

[John Dee]

He loved her...  and still does.   ??

 

 

I don't get it either...       but it is real.   Probably the same for many abusive relationships.     Who knows?

 

Dude finally divorced the witch and married another "non violent" withch  ..  but at least she leaves him alone.

 

Yep.

I get what you're saying that it is Not always the male that is the aggressor or abuser,  Once again I might ask,  WHY on Earth would he stay in a relationship like that for 20 years...???

[Valpo2004]

How about this angle?    

 

Have ANY of you EVER know a couple where the female was abusive to the male?    I would love to hear because a VERY good friend of mine lived domestic abuse for 20 years.     The female "BEATING ON the male" ...   It happens.   

 

This entire issue has sooooo many angles.    

 

 

I really think is boils down to respect.      between the relationships.    A totally polarizing topic. 

 

Actually studies show that females attacking the male is actually more common then the other way around.  

 

The problems are that males are even less likely to get help because.

1. They will get made fun of by both men and women.

2. There is no help available anyways.  As I've said before there are actually more shelters available for abused goats then men abused by their SO's. 

3. Very few people are interested in helping men.

4. Men are less likely to show notable physical injuries from the abuse.  

[Buck Showalter]

Very Classy, putting a player you don't like in the same class with a man who very likely murdered multiple people. What a stupid comment. 

/blocked

Alright, maybe it was a bad joke, I in no way tried or meant to "put Trent in the same class" as Hernandez or Rice...

I think it is awesome that the Pats & Baltimore are doing the buy back for fans

I didn't know that before, so it's awesome.

Again sorry my comment offended, it was a joke based solely about jerseys, not the character of the player...

[Poster X]

Define "fought for it." 

If Goodell is to be believed, and they didn't have access to the tape despite asking for it as he said initially they should have done everything in their power to get it short of forking over money. That is all moot now because it appears that they simply never asked for it, or didn't care. My guess is they were hoping it would go away... and the man should without a doubt lose his job for lying about all of it. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

If Goodell is to be believed, and they didn't have access to the tape despite asking for it as he said initially they should have done everything in their power to get it short of forking over money. That is all moot now because it appears that they simply never asked for it, or didn't care. My guess is they were hoping it would go away... and the man should without a doubt lose his job for lying about all of it. 

 

And the knowing about it but not getting it before making the first punishment  is a problem.  A snippet of the core legal issues from a post of mine elsewhere-

 

"Maybe not double jeopardy in the 5th amendment judicial sense, but what about Article 46 of the NFL's collective bargaining agreement which I believe states that neither the NFL nor a team (such as the Ravens) can punish a player twice for the same conduct or act?

 

Now do you want to know why what Goodell knew when is so important?  because -

 

"If the NFL knew of the elevator video when it originally suspended Rice but now uses the video’s public disclosure to  justify its harsher suspension on Rice, Rice would surely sue the NFL as acting outside the wide boundaries of the personal conduct policy. While the policy is decidedly broad, it is not limitless, and Rice might contend that an elongated suspension based on information the league already knew constitutes “arbitrary and capricious” decision-making.  Rice would assert that it is arbitrary to use old information to justify a new penalty but not take that approach with other players, and it would also be capricious since Goodell would seem unpredictable and erratic. In addition, the NFLPA could file an unfair labor practices charge with the National Labor Relations Board if Goodell imposed a new penalty based on prior information."

 

I am of the belief the NFL cannot claim that the contents of the video are new evidence, as they were aware of the video's existence and chose not to ensure they saw the video before exacting discipline.  Otherwise, the commissioner would have to explain why they weren't aware of the other tape inside the elevator before ruling the first time if they continue to claim they made a new decision based upon new information.

 

One other potential legal complication. Goodell unilaterally imposed the domestic policy. It was not collectively bargained. While collectively bargained rules that impact players’ wages, hours and working conditions are exempt from federal antitrust law, those same rules are subject to antitrust law when the rule is unilaterally imposed. So that gives Rice a method to sue the NFL under antitrust law, forcing the NFL to litigate the policy and argue it is an extension to the personal conduct policy.  With Rice already suspended, just how attractive a test case would that make?"

 

if folks cooperate it could be resolved with Little extra fanfare.  I don't foresee it happening that way though.

[amfootball]

Speaking from a purely PR standpoint, the NFL knew the second video existed. TMZ said they had the altercation and punch on video. Of course we know this because at the time when the first video was released and all we saw was Rice carrying her off the elevator, it came out that Rice had punched her.

 

If the NFL in fact never saw the video and that is possible then shame on them as TMZ was going to release it anyways. To not have seen that video knowing it would become public is about the biggest PR gaffe in history IMO IF true.

 

That being said, I do think the NFL saw the video and either A) willfully ignored it and based its punishment on the testimony of Ray and his wife or B) had no idea the outrage it would cause. I am leaning toward A because Rice had no prior history and they wanted this to go away BUT still I come back to the video. You knew it would be released so how on earth could you not make sure you saw it?

[John Dee]

I think the NFL totally underestimated the POWER of an NFL player clocking his lady on video.  

 

 It has NEVER happened before.       And now GODell is back tracking like the little boy he is.   

 

This info age we live in is changing the rules of "engagement" by the minute.     The OLD way is forever gone.    Today is a rush to judgement...   instant finality.   Witch hunt mentality ....      And ESPN is the media that has such POWERFUL control over public opinion just on how they "report" an issue.

 

I think GODell could be in trouble.     But alas...    everyone on the machine at ESPN is now "calming down" .. .and not coming after GODell with the same lust.

 

GODell will keep his job and this well get smoothed over.   Because they (NFL and ESPN like this *)

z Speaking from a purely PR standpoint, the NFL knew the second video existed. TMZ said they had the altercation and punch on video. Of course we know this because at the time when the first video was released and all we saw was Rice carrying her off the elevator, it came out that Rice had punched her.

 

If the NFL in fact never saw the video and that is possible then shame on them as TMZ was going to release it anyways. To not have seen that video knowing it would become public is about the biggest PR gaffe in history IMO IF true.

 

That being said, I do think the NFL saw the video and either A) willfully ignored it and based its punishment on the testimony of Ray and his wife or B) had no idea the outrage it would cause. I am leaning toward A because Rice had no prior history and they wanted this to go away BUT still I come back to the video. You knew it would be released so how on earth could you not make sure you saw it?

[ColtsBlueFL]

I think the NFL totally underestimated the POWER of an NFL player clocking his lady on video.  

 

 It has NEVER happened before.       And now GODell is back tracking like the little boy he is.   

 

This info age we live in is changing the rules of "engagement" by the minute.     The OLD way is forever gone.    Today is a rush to judgement...   instant finality.   Witch hunt mentality ....      And ESPN is the media that has such POWERFUL control over public opinion just on how they "report" an issue.

 

I think GODell could be in trouble.     But alas...    everyone on the machine at ESPN is now "calming down" .. .and not coming after GODell with the same lust.

 

GODell will keep his job and this well get smoothed over.   Because they (NFL and ESPN like this *)

 

Goodell will keep his job, unless it is completely proven he knew about the video in NFL hands and he did view it. That would be the only way the owners might consider letting him go.  If it was in house, but not viewed by him, he will be grilled on why he did not.  But will likely be kept on by the owners.

[ruksak]

I think the NFL totally underestimated the POWER of an NFL player clocking his lady on video.  

 

 It has NEVER happened before.       And now GODell is back tracking like the little boy he is.   

 

This info age we live in is changing the rules of "engagement" by the minute.     The OLD way is forever gone.    Today is a rush to judgement...   instant finality.   Witch hunt mentality ....      And ESPN is the media that has such POWERFUL control over public opinion just on how they "report" an issue.

 

I think GODell could be in trouble.     But alas...    everyone on the machine at ESPN is now "calming down" .. .and not coming after GODell with the same lust.

 

GODell will keep his job and this well get smoothed over.   Because they (NFL and ESPN like this *)

Goodell didn't hit his wife, Ray Rice did. Could we maybe stop the pretense that Roger is a crook? 

 

This whole thing is ridiculous, and quite a tribute to our celebrity obsessed society. Some jock got liquored up and popped his wife, and this makes headlines? We're about to go to war (again), we have missing women & children that are likely dead, and nobody knows where they are, what happened to them or who did it. But we're distracted by a dysfunctional celebrity couple that apparently left their small child with a baby sitter and decided to get drunk at a casino. Enter alcohol....enter violence, big surprise.

 

This certainly won't stop the alcohol industry from being tied to the NFL's hip. 

 

This isn't a big deal. It's a very small deal, actually. We shouldn't care about his nearly as much as we're pretending to. 

[John Dee]

No he didn't but he "ruled" on it as a ...   ho hum..   just another NFL player being themselves...   

 

Really?      These THUGS DO NOT LIVE IN THE SAME REALITY AS WE DO....   

 

They are entitled, pampered, and told from POW club, or Pee Wee football that they are SO IMPORTANT. 

 

These guys do not live in the real world.    When they boo boo and enter OUR world...   IE the legal system it can work a few different ways.   

 

Too just poo poo Roger G "potentially" lying is just  sad.  

 

No accountability ...    in this entire fiasco..     Not anywhere.  GODell is a coward, he will get a lot of staff fired because HE is little man.      Who #ed up and cannot be man enough to admit his error...    So he will squirm and wiggle his little * out of the frying pan.     And back into the "position of most powerful man in sports" ...   :LOL.

 

Carry on Bro...

Goodell didn't hit his wife, Ray Rice did. Could we maybe stop the pretense that Roger is a crook? 

 

This whole thing is ridiculous, and quite a tribute to our celebrity obsessed society. Some jock got liquored up and popped his wife, and this makes headlines? We're about to go to war (again), we have missing women & children that are likely dead, and nobody knows where they are, what happened to them or who did it. But we're distracted by a dysfunctional celebrity couple that apparently left their small child with a baby sitter and decided to get drunk at a casino. Enter alcohol....enter violence, big surprise.

 

This certainly won't stop the alcohol industry from being tied to the NFL's hip. 

 

This isn't a big deal. It's a very small deal, actually. We shouldn't care about his nearly as much as we're pretending to. 

[ruksak]

No he didn't but he "ruled" on it as a ...   ho hum..   just another NFL player being themselves...   

 

Really?      These THUGS DO NOT LIVE IN THE SAME REALITY AS WE DO....   

 

They are entitled, pampered, and told from POW club, or Pee Wee football that they are SO IMPORTANT. 

 

These guys do not live in the real world.    When they boo boo and enter OUR world...   IE the legal system it can work a few different ways.   

 

Too just poo poo Roger G "potentially" lying is just  sad.  

 

No accountability ...    in this entire fiasco..     Not anywhere.  GODell is a coward, he will get a lot of staff fired because HE is little man.      Who #ed up and cannot be man enough to admit his error...    So he will squirm and wiggle his little butt out of the frying pan.     And back into the "position of most powerful man in sports" ...   :LOL.

 

Carry on Bro...

*you think

 

 

Wait for the facts before you support further destruction of lives and careers.