BREAKING: Ray Rice released by Ravens, suspended indefinitely

[Superman]

I think it's valid. Violence is a legacy.  Children learn what they live

He's responsible and so is she

 

So it's okay to blame her for this legacy of violence, but it's not okay to suggest that she provoked the violence in the first place?

 

I don't know what happened. I'm just saying that you have two people who have known each other and been together for a long time, engaged, ready to be married. You can't reduce their relationship to one night, no matter how terrible that night was. 

[Superman]

What? Part of the story with Ray Rice is the fact that she did marry him within one week of this incident. That is not victim blaming. She never even wanted to press charges which is what led to his light punishment. As I said, domestic violence and the reasons why women not only stay with but defend these men's actions are disturbing.

 

That's really not part of the story. The story is that he hit her in an elevator. If they were married at the time, would we be holding her accountable for not leaving him? If they weren't engaged, just boyfriend and girlfriend, and were still together, then what? 

 

I'm just saying, focusing on her marrying him, even bringing it up, is just as unfair as suggesting that she provoked him in the first place.

[amfootball]

That's really not part of the story. The story is that he hit her in an elevator. If they were married at the time, would we be holding her accountable for not leaving him? If they weren't engaged, just boyfriend and girlfriend, and were still together, then what? 

 

I'm just saying, focusing on her marrying him, even bringing it up, is just as unfair as suggesting that she provoked him in the first place.

You have completely lost me.

[Superman]

You have completely lost me.

 

I think I'm being pretty clear. Don't mean to derail the discussion. Carry on.

[Nadine]

So it's okay to blame her for this legacy of violence, but it's not okay to suggest that she provoked the violence in the first place?

 

I don't know what happened. I'm just saying that you have two people who have known each other and been together for a long time, engaged, ready to be married. You can't reduce their relationship to one night, no matter how terrible that night was. 

 

I don't think it's ok to say that she provoked the violence. That's on him

But yes, I do think that violence is something that a mother keeps her child away from and yes, she should have postponed at least.

 

I do think that one incidence of violence is significant enough that you can boil their relationship down to one night

 

It's a massive red flag

 

Regardless of why she makes the choices she makes...........she's responsible for that child.  

[amfootball]

I think I'm being pretty clear. Don't mean to derail the discussion. Carry on.

I don't see the two as related. She married him right after that night because she did not want to press charges. His light punishment is a direct result of her action or non-action in this case. That is on her. Now her reasons for doing so? Complicated and disturbing.

[Nadine]

That's really not part of the story. The story is that he hit her in an elevator. If they were married at the time, would we be holding her accountable for not leaving him? If they weren't engaged, just boyfriend and girlfriend, and were still together, then what? 

 

I'm just saying, focusing on her marrying him, even bringing it up, is just as unfair as suggesting that she provoked him in the first place.

 

I think the notion that she provoked it is nonsense and the fact that she publicly apologized 'for her role' in the knock out was sad.

 

But if they had been married, YES I would hold her accountable for staying and if they weren't engaged I would hold her accountable to not breaking up.

 

Violent men don't change.  The whole dynamic is incredibly dysfunctional .

 

Women need to take their children and get out

[MrNLM]

I don't care about this at all from an NFL standpoint because they are just trying to protect their brand by taking a stand when someone cries wolf. They are very REactive and not at all PROactive in most situations allowing players to make mistakes and raise the threshhold of punishment as they go. Domestic violence is nothing new and they are just NOW putting their foot down on this type of situation??? I call nonsense all day long.

 

My real concern is this... Why is this video just now coming to light even after Ray Rice has been through the legal process? Don't try and tell me that a prosecutor could not get his hands on this elevator video with a court order. This is just another case of a sports figure/celebrity getting off easy while the rest of us suffer the full extent of the law.

 

Keep your nose clean kids because unless you are someone worth saving... you are gonna get the book thrown at you!

[Superman]

I don't think it's ok to say that she provoked the violence. That's on him

But yes, I do think that violence is something that a mother keeps her child away from and yes, she should have postponed at least.

 

I do think that one incidence of violence is significant enough that you can boil their relationship down to one night

 

It's a massive red flag

 

Regardless of why she makes the choices she makes...........she's responsible for that child.  

 

 

I disagree with the bolded, obviously. As a woman, you can say that you wouldn't marry someone because of one incident like that, and I think that's totally fine. I just don't think it's fair to judge this woman because she didn't do what you think you would do in the same situation.

 

I do think she's responsible for her child, and herself. If something else happens -- or if this wasn't the first time something like this has happened -- different story. For now, so far as any of us knows, it's one night.

 

And yes, his actions are on him. He alone is responsible for what he did. But that doesn't mean that he, or anyone else in that situation, wasn't provoked. Again, not blaming her for his actions; a person ought to be able to make better decisions under provocation. But that doesn't mean there wasn't provocation.

 

(Having seen the video on NFLN just now -- I wasn't going to watch it, but they showed it -- I think there was provocation. He was still very, very wrong, and there's no justification for what he did. But before they got on the elevator, she clearly slapped him, and then she was very aggressive in the elevator. Again, he's absolutely wrong, absolutely wrong, absolutely wrong. She didn't deserve to get hit, or to be treated abusively in any way. But there was certainly provocation. He didn't come home from work and wail on her because dinner wasn't ready.)

[Nadine]

I disagree with the bolded, obviously. As a woman, you can say that you wouldn't marry someone because of one incident like that, and I think that's totally fine. I just don't think it's fair to judge this woman because she didn't do what you think you would do in the same situation.

 

I do think she's responsible for her child, and herself. If something else happens -- or if this wasn't the first time something like this has happened -- different story. For now, so far as any of us knows, it's one night.

 

And yes, his actions are on him. He alone is responsible for what he did. But that doesn't mean that he, or anyone else in that situation, wasn't provoked. Again, not blaming her for his actions; a person ought to be able to make better decisions under provocation. But that doesn't mean there wasn't provocation.

 

(Having seen the video on NFLN just now -- I wasn't going to watch it, but they showed it -- I think there was provocation. He was still very, very wrong, and there's no justification for what he did. But before they got on the elevator, she clearly slapped him, and then she was very aggressive in the elevator. Again, he's absolutely wrong, absolutely wrong, absolutely wrong. She didn't deserve to get hit, or to be treated abusively in any way. But there was certainly provocation. He didn't come home from work and wail on her because dinner wasn't ready.)

 

Agree to disagree

 

He's a big strong guy and has a lot of choices for dealing with a woman slapping him.  I don't think that is provocation for knocking her out

[Superman]

I don't see the two as related. She married him right after that night because she did not want to press charges. His light punishment is a direct result of her action or non-action in this case. That is on her. Now her reasons for doing so? Complicated and disturbing.

 

I don't understand the bolded. First, how do you know that? That seems like conjecture.

 

Second, how does marrying him or not marrying him relate to pressing charges or not? She could have still pressed charges even if she married him. She didn't have to press charges if she didn't marry him.

 

Her reasons for doing so? I don't know that anyone claiming to understand her from their spot on the Internet can really say. This is reality TV kind of stuff, IMO. Like watching animals at a zoo. There is a lot about those two people that none of us know. Maybe she shouldn't have married him. I just don't understand why that comes up when we're discussing this. I don't think it belongs. Again, JMO.

[jvan1973]

I don't see the two as related. She married him right after that night because she did not want to press charges. His light punishment is a direct result of her action or non-action in this case. That is on her. Now her reasons for doing so? Complicated and disturbing.

You really have no idea if they are either complicated or disturbing. Only she knows the reasons.

[Superman]

Agree to disagree

 

He's a big strong guy and has a lot of choices for dealing with a woman slapping him.  I don't think that is provocation for knocking her out

 

See, I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. 

 

You're right, he has a lot of choices for dealing with a woman (or anyone) slapping him. He was not justified in his actions. It wasn't self defense. He was dead wrong. No two ways about it.

 

She still provoked him. Slapping someone is provocation. Not justification. Provocation. You are escalating a situation. Her aggressive behavior in the elevator was provocation. Still, not justifying his actions, which were dead wrong, but making the situation worse.

 

I hope I'm not coming across as blaming her for what happened. Ray Rice is to blame. No justification for his actions. 

[Blue Horseshoe]

After watching the video I had the same reaction t had after I first learned about the Marvin Harrison shooting.

Who are these people we make so rich for entertaining us?

[Superman]

Speaking about Rice, I think the league should go ahead and give him the six games. Their statement today that they hadn't seen the video suggests that they might use it as a basis to extend his suspension.

 

And if they're talking about retroactively reducing the suspensions for guys like Josh Gordon and Wes Welker, I think there's more than enough basis to extend Rice's suspension, in light of new evidence. 

[Nadine]

See, I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. 

 

You're right, he has a lot of choices for dealing with a woman (or anyone) slapping him. He was not justified in his actions. It wasn't self defense. He was dead wrong. No two ways about it.

 

She still provoked him. Slapping someone is provocation. Not justification. Provocation. You are escalating a situation. Her aggressive behavior in the elevator was provocation. Still, not justifying his actions, which were dead wrong, but making the situation worse.

 

I hope I'm not coming across as blaming her for what happened. Ray Rice is to blame. No justification for his actions. 

 

I don't see provocation .  That's one place we differ

 

Doesn't matter in the long run except you feel it was a lapse on both their parts and can be put in the past and there may be an assumption that it was an isolated incident and will never recur.

 

I don't believe it was an isolated incident and I believe it will happen again

 

That's just me but..........that's typically the way these things go

[Superman]

I don't see provocation .  That's one place we differ

 

Doesn't matter in the long run except you feel it was a lapse on both their parts and can be put in the past and there may be an assumption that it was an isolated incident and will never recur.

 

I don't believe it was an isolated incident and I believe it will happen again

 

That's just me but..........that's typically the way these things go

 

That very well may be true. I just don't think it's possible to know. I'm not stating it absolutely was an isolated incident and will never happen again. I'm just slow to assume otherwise. I'm generally slow to assume anything, especially when I don't know the people involved. 

 

Did you watch the video? I never had anything to say about provocation until I saw it.

[ruksak]

I still want to know why she married him

Is that a serious question?

[SilentHill]

The video was really hard to watch. Kinda makes me ashamed he's on my fantasy team.

[Valpo2004]

Makes me wonder more about why the law let him off so easy.  I could care less about the NFL they actually punished him worse then the law did.  

 

And it's not because he could hire good lawyers and they could get him off.  The video doesn't lie and that's all they would need to show the jury. 

 

The public in Los Vegas should be demanding answers for this.

[jvan1973]

The ravens just cut him. i wonder what the cap hit is on that?

[chad72]

The Ravens did the right thing. I felt it was affecting them as a team, this elephant of a distraction, IMO.

[Superman]

The ravens just cut him. i wonder what the cap hit is on that?

 

I think it's $9m. His future guarantees are voided by the suspension. I don't know about this year's base salary, given that he's a vested veteran. Might be $12m, total. Between $3-6m in 2014, $6m in 2015.

[Superman]

The Ravens did the right thing. I felt it was affecting them as a team, this elephant of a distraction, IMO.

 

And I think the league will extend his suspension, should another team pick him up at any point this year. But he probably won't play this season, either way. 

 

Wow.

[IndyTrav]

Lol

[House]

Holy %. That's a big step.

[Superman]

The ravens just cut him. i wonder what the cap hit is on that?

 

 

I think it's $9m. His future guarantees are voided by the suspension. I don't know about this year's base salary, given that he's a vested veteran. Might be $12m, total. Between $3-6m in 2014, $6m in 2015.

 

Ian Rapaport just said it's $5.5m. I'm assuming he meant this year only. The unamortized bonus still has to hit the cap.

[Superman]

Holy %. That's a big step.

 

I don't think they'd have done this if the video had come out back in February. The suspension probably would have been longer, and maybe they wouldn't have been so supportive of him, but I don't think they'd have cut him. But with the backlash from the initial handling of this, and now people speaking out against the entire situation, I think they had to do this.

[OffensivelyPC]

Seems to me that the NFL and the Ravens didn't have a copy of the video released today.  Their cutting him now gives me the implication that and his wife gave a different or watered down version of what happened in the elevator.  I mean, unless the NFL can be quoted as saying whether it had the video on hand when it laid down the suspension - I just don't think that's the case.

[Superman]

Seems to me that the NFL and the Ravens didn't have a copy of the video released today.  Their cutting him now gives me the implication that and his wife gave a different or watered down version of what happened in the elevator.  I mean, unless the NFL can be quoted as saying whether it had the video on hand when it laid down the suspension - I just don't think that's the case.

 

The NFL said they hadn't seen the video until today. The Ravens said the same.

 

You might be right. Everyone might have bought the story from him and his wife, and that might have been baloney.

[chad72]

And I think the league will extend his suspension, should another team pick him up at any point this year. But he probably won't play this season, either way. 

 

Wow.

 

That was the only way it could happen.

 

NFLPA did not want to set a precedent with the commish and the owners by agreeing to re-open a case like double jeopardy. However, the NFLPA was getting pressure from its own players. Goodell could not override the NFLPA and everything bargained, so the best outcome in this situation was the Ravens releasing Ray Rice avoiding a lot of headache for the NFLPA, Goodell, and the owners.

[House]

I don't think they'd have done this if the video had come out back in February. The suspension probably would have been longer, and maybe they wouldn't have been so supportive of him, but I don't think they'd have cut him. But with the backlash from the initial handling of this, and now people speaking out against the entire situation, I think they had to do this.

PR wise I get it. But from a team/business standpoint, that's hard to swallow. Because someone out there is going to pick him up.

[House]

Seems to me that the NFL and the Ravens didn't have a copy of the video released today. Their cutting him now gives me the implication that and his wife gave a different or watered down version of what happened in the elevator. I mean, unless the NFL can be quoted as saying whether it had the video on hand when it laid down the suspension - I just don't think that's the case.

That or they thought the general public would never have access to the video.

[Valpo2004]

http://overthecap.com/player/ray-rice/1396

 

4.75 Million for this season in dead money (Post June 1 cut) and 9.5 million next season.

 

It's a cap hit both years to release him.  

 

They where either really disgusted by what they saw and decided they don't want to be affiliated with him anymore or perhaps they got a watered down version from him and are just releasing him for lying about it.

[chad72]

PR wise I get it. But from a team/business standpoint, that's hard to swallow. Because someone out there is going to pick him up.

 

It won't be this year though, IMO. It may happen next year though, in a small market.

 

Teams that care about their image won't be willing to take that PR hit right away till things settle down and a little bit is forgotten with some time.

[OffensivelyPC]

The NFL said they hadn't seen the video until today. The Ravens said the same.

 

You might be right. Everyone might have bought the story from him and his wife, and that might have been baloney.

To me, they wouldn't be surprised by seeing the video if Rice had told him the absolute truth.  I know that hearing the story doesnt' bring about the same visceral effects when actually seeing it.  But if it was an accurate story that Rice and his wife gave the Ravens, it doesn't make sense to cut him all of the sudden when the video goes viral. 

[Valpo2004]

I don't think they'd have done this if the video had come out back in February. The suspension probably would have been longer, and maybe they wouldn't have been so supportive of him, but I don't think they'd have cut him. But with the backlash from the initial handling of this, and now people speaking out against the entire situation, I think they had to do this.

 

I don't know. . . couldn't the Ravens increase his suspension after having viewed the video?

 

Maybe NFL suspensions are final once they are pronounced. . . fine but it seems like the Ravens could have said. . . you know what we just saw the video and we're gonna add 6 more games to this or something like that.

 

I think they wanted to end their affiliation all together after seeing this.

[Superman]

http://overthecap.com/player/ray-rice/1396

 

4.75 Million for this season in dead money and 9.5 million next season.

 

It's a cap hit both years to release him.  

 

Ah, it's an option bonus, not a roster bonus. Yeah, that looks right.

[House]

It won't be this year though, IMO. It may happen next year though, in a small market.

I wouldn't be shocked. He's not suspended for the year. There's nothing to prevent a team from signing him. If a big injury to a running back happens I can see it in a second.

If Vick can rehab his imagine Rice can too. He's going to be playing next year without a doubt.

[Thewholefnshow28]

Makes me wonder more about why the law let him off so easy.  I could care less about the NFL they actually punished him worse then the law did.  

 

And it's not because he could hire good lawyers and they could get him off.  The video doesn't lie and that's all they would need to show the jury. 

 

The public in Los Vegas should be demanding answers for this.

 

The laws hands are tied if she is not willing to press charges.  She did not want to press charges so there is nothing they could do.  They had to just watch this * walk out the door.

 

Watching the video and you clearly see Rice get in her face and say something before she gives the back handed slap and you can just tell in his walk that he was *.  They get on the elevator and Rice is right there next to her saying something.  She says something back and then he nails her with a jab and that sets her off and she moves towards him aggressively and that is when Rice nails her with the hook and knocks her out.

 

Glad to see the * cut and hopefully every team passes on him and he can just sit at home. The sad thing he will probably take it out on her when he gets home.