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Wes Welker suspended 4 games (merge)


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My gosh , the guy had a concussion and he has a 4 game suspension. What's the big deal ?

It's only a big deal because he catches passes from Peyton and we face Peyton Sunday. If he was on any other team, there'd only be one thread. #PeytonObsessed

Also, some people seem to just like being the one who "starts" a thread, even if it's redundant.

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Okay...anyone have a percentage of Manning passes that have resulted in a concussion....not including run after the catch? Manning has thrown more passes than probably almost any qb in the league...many combined...so of course more receivers are going to get concussed....any numbers...or is this just the Collie/Welker thing....remembering Collie had his last one with Luck. If there is a greater correlation of Manning passes let me see the numbers please...maybe its true....I just like to know.

Stokely

Clark

Collie

Welker

Where there's smoke, there's fire. None, I repeat, none of Brady's receivers have ever had a concussion. I agree that some concussions are on the receivers themselves, but Manning has this rep, whether Colt/Broncos fans like it or not.

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Stokely

Clark

Collie

Welker

Where there's smoke, there's fire. None, I repeat, none of Brady's receivers have ever had a concussion. I agree that some concussions are on the receivers themselves, but Manning has this rep, whether Colt/Broncos fans like it or not.

 

Correlation does not equal causation. Don't you guys know this already? Why do I feel like I'm teaching a statistics class?

 

Also, LOL at none of Brady's receivers have ever had a concussion. Before 2010, the league was hardly paying attention to concussions. I'm certain that assertion isn't true. And in that same vein, didn't you say earlier that Manning's receivers have probably suffered concussions that weren't reported? Is that not true for Brady?

 

Also also, what does Brady have to do with this?

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As I said, there is a history with Manning. It is fine if you disagree that he is not culpable at all in any of his receivers suffering concussions but for you to call it an insidious claim is more of what I took issue with. I happen to believe that QBs do to some extent control the well being of their receivers. It was well known in Indy that Manning had throws that led his receivers high and caused impacts that could have been avoided if the throws were better/lower or away from coverage or perhaps not made at all. If you want to turn a blind eye to that and just say that is a factor of receivers going over the middle that is fine but I believe otherwise and do not feel that opinion is insidious in the least.

 

You misunderstand what I mean by insidious. I'm saying this argument seems to suggest that Manning doesn't care about his teammates.

 

Also, yes, we disagree. Both fundamentally and obviously, in application.

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It's only a big deal because he catches passes from Peyton and we face Peyton Sunday. If he was on any other team, there'd only be one thread. #PeytonObsessed

Also, some people seem to just like being the one who "starts" a thread, even if it's redundant.

 

 

 

Truth is the author of this 4th thread thought he had something so profound that he didn't want it to get buried in one of the other threads.  

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You misunderstand what I mean by insidious. I'm saying this argument seems to suggest that Manning doesn't care about his teammates.

 

Also, yes, we disagree. Both fundamentally and obviously, in application.

Yes, I did misunderstand and appreciate you clarifying. I did not get the sense that anyone who partially or completely faults Manning for the concussions believes he is intentionally trying to hurt his teammates but I don't want to speak for other people either. I certainly don't believe Manning is intentionally doing it or wants to win so badly that he is risking his teammates. I believe he is just not great at getting the ball to smaller receivers over the middle - more of a flaw in his game then anything else.

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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11461386/peyton-manning-says-denver-broncos-prepared-wes-welker-suspension

 

Some interesting quotes form Manning on preparing to play without Welker and how the Broncos have started each of the last three seasons with a player or players suspended:

 

"I guess I wasn't shocked, I guess (I) had an idea it might be happening," Manning said when asked after Wednesday's practice, the team's first since Welker's suspension was announced, if he was taken aback by the news. "It was something we prepared for.''

 

For his part, Manning was fairly blunt in discussing the Broncos' habit in his three seasons in Denver of having a starter suspended by the league. He also said the approach inside the team's complex is, once again, to push through it.

 

"It's the third year running we've had a starting player suspended at the start of the season," Manning said. "That's not something the Broncos want to brag about, but it's the reality. We've been able to still win games despite that. So no question it's a test; we'll see how we handle this test."

 

"There is a difference when you have an injured player or a player suspended,'' Manning said. "Losing Wes is a self-inflicted. It's different than an injury. But I still put it in the adversity category. I try to stay positive in these situations. Everybody else is talking about the negative going on. What we're talking about is the positives. You find out a little bit about your team, and can you handle it."

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"What Wes Welker's Statement Really Says" http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/9/3/6100999/wes-welker-suspension-statement-reaction

 

lol. This made my laugh. Here are a couple of the best excerpts:

 

"I have never been concerned with the leagues performance enhancing or drug abuse policies because under no scenario would they ever apply to me"

On the one hand, Welker says he'd never knowingly take something to gain an advantage. On the other, he says he's never paid attention to the drug policy. So he admits he wouldn't know, even if he did take something. Essentially he's trying to insulate himself from ever being penalized, but in the strangest way possible. Ignorance isn't a defense, whether he want us to believe he was slipped it or not.

"I now know, that (drug-policy procedures) are clearly flawed, and I will do everything in my power to ensure they are corrected, so other individuals and teams aren't negatively affected so rashly like this."

The drug policy Welker never read is flawed because he happened to be caught breaking it; that's basically the crux of this. There was a time and place to try to overhaul the NFL drug policy, when CBA negotiations were taking place. Then again, there was no reason for him to talk about it then, because Welker never paid attention to it.

"I have worked my whole life to be the best that I can be, and I have encountered many obstacles over my career, and THIS WILL BE NO DIFFERENT!"

The caps let you know that HE IS SERIOUS. The message is the typical athlete crutch of overcoming adversity, even if said adversity is self-inflicted.

"Thank you for the outpouring of support, and I want Bronco nation to know, that no one and no thing will get in the way of our goal as a team, to bring Mr. Bowlen the trophy he and this great region deserve."

Except, one thing kind of did get in the way here. You.

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I can't really say that it helps us much now that Wes is suspended.  I mean, of course he's an asset for them that would give us trouble if he were on the field.  But I think that just means that Julius Thomas will be more of a factor, and it's not like that guy doesn't have obvious mismatches against our smaller LB corps. 

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He was pretty bold in calling it "self-inflicted" and saying it is in the adversity category. Kind of called Wes out a bit there which is a good message from Manning.

He should have called him out. This stuff ruined baseball for a long time, and skewed the record books. I'm glad Peyton called it what it is.

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The way I read the comment  was that the team knew back in July about the failed drug test, and for that reason,  Peyton was not surprised at the suspension.   :dunno:   

 

That's exactly what he was saying, yeah. The team found out right before camp and then Welker's appeal had to be scheduled. Obviously nothing is announced until after that hearing. But the Broncos knew over a month ago and were just waiting on the results of the appeal. 

 

Denver showed last year that they can still operate at a very high level without Welker, averaging better than 30 points/game when he didn't play. Plenty of other targets there and lots of ways for Manning to do damage. They have a tough stretch to start the season and sure it would be nice to have all hands on deck, but they're going to be fine as long as they avoid further injury. 

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He was pretty bold in calling it "self-inflicted" and saying it is in the adversity category. Kind of called Wes out a bit there which is a good message from Manning.

 

Yes, I am surprised but you know what, maybe Manning has had enough. He is going to taunt if he feels badly about it :) and call it like he sees it instead of giving concocted answers. Its the Darth Vader inside him :)

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Stokely

Clark

Collie

Welker

Where there's smoke, there's fire. None, I repeat, none of Brady's receivers have ever had a concussion. I agree that some concussions are on the receivers themselves, but Manning has this rep, whether Colt/Broncos fans like it or not.

Thats fine. Thats 4 guys and that doesn't mean all where on the qb...I'm asking is there a percentage of throws that have resulted in concussions. I've not seen the number. We seen other receivers have concussions too....what I'm saying is take the amount of concussions resulting from catches...not runs and see what percentage of throws resulted in those concussions. Manning has thrown more passes than almost any QB in the history of football. I'm still saying that he could very well have a high number of concussions per throw compared to other QBs....but I actually think it is probably not the case. Brady never having a guy concussed is impressive...but that doesn't necessarily make Manning more culpable than any other QBs. I can't argue Brady may be better at protecting his receivers...that could be a fact...that however doesn't necessarily mean Manning is hazardous with his. I simply was wondering if anyone has tracked this stat and studied it more than just saying dang Peyton has had 4 guys get concussions. Likely he has had more but they were never reported....and I'm not trying to take a dig at the Patriots but its hard to tell if they have had any because they basically never give injury status....but I do agree I don't remember any recently. I would say that has a lot to do with the type of offense they run but agree Tom has been very good about hitting the open guys. All in all before we convict Peyton of anything I just like the numbers (or facts)...not circumstancial evidence.

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Stokely

Clark

Collie

Welker

Where there's smoke, there's fire. None, I repeat, none of Brady's receivers have ever had a concussion. I agree that some concussions are on the receivers themselves, but Manning has this rep, whether Colt/Broncos fans like it or not.

He had that rep in Indy. Welker should have stayed in NE.

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There are probably several factors. Maybe there are subtle differences with how Welker has to run basically the same routes in Denver that he ran in NE. You hit it nicely there though... I don't mean for this to be insidious. It's just an observation. 

 

You're someone whose opinion I greatly respect so I actually just checked out all three clips again. Just to make sure no one slipped me a Molly.  ;)

 

On the first concussion (KC game), it was a catch-and-run, and he wasn't hit until well after he had possession and gained a chunk of yards after the catch. Not a badly thrown ball there at all, the pass had nothing to do with it. 

 

On #2 (Titans), it wasn't a great throw. Up around his shoulders/head. Manning had a back on that play who was wide open too but he must have missed him.  

 

#3, the most recent, was, IMO, another not-so-great throw. Probably not a good decision by Manning, especially in a preseason game. 

 

You know, another thing that I think would be a mistake to dismiss is that Brady has made his living throwing to these small, shifty, slot guys. Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Welker... all small by WR standards. He knows how to get the ball down where those guys can go get it. There are exceptions of course (Moss, Gronkowski), but his primary targets have been smaller dudes. 

 

Question for you GP. When did Welker's relationship with Bill exactly sour? He was there six years and the best slot receiver in the game and Brady calls him one of his best friends. What gives? Did he begin to dislike Bill because of the contract stuff or was the relationship never good?

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Just looking at last years concussions to wrs Jacksonville had 3 concussions to its wrs, Jets 2, Seattle 2, Denver 2, Houston 2, Minnesota 2, NE 1 (Danny Amendola on a run after catch) and several other teams like Arizona and Tennesse had 1. Without reviewing every throw and catch I can't say if its the QB or WRs fault or just unlucky but I wouldn't say Peyton is particularly worse than anyone else. Considering he throws sometimes double the passes that other teams throw over the course of a season his numbers don't seem totally out of the norm. I don't think he is purposely saying he doesn't care about his receivers health but clearly they run a lot of routes that rely on precision of route running and timing...maybe more so than other teams so it could be a more dangerous offense to play in I can't deny that. I think in general some players are more suseptable to concussions than others and especially after their first one...hard to say where the blame lies....partly on everyone I guess...player for not protecting themselves, qb for throwing into traffic, play design, and the defensive player for the hit. I'm sure Peyton has had some throws he liked to take back but some of these are just freak plays and no ones fault.

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He has not admitted to taking anything "knowingly." Apparently someone slipped him the Amphs in his drink at the derby ... maybe the lamest excuse for getting suspended I have ever heard.

 

Couldn't literally everyone who's ever failed a drug test ever make a similar claim?

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Couldn't literally everyone who's ever failed a drug test ever make a similar claim?

Sure. I don't get it. He and his agent knew the suspension was a possibility in May and the statement he issued was in a word "awful." His unwillingness to take any responsibility AND come down on the leagues drug policy which he said he never concerned himself with before really made him look bad, bad, bad.

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Sure. I don't get it. He and his agent knew the suspension was a possibility in May and the statement he issued was in a word "awful." His unwillingness to take any responsibility AND come down on the leagues drug policy which he said he never concerned himself with before really made him look bad, bad, bad.

It doesn't look any worse than any other denial. Who has come out and owned it initially in any sport without some sort of investigation being involved

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