O-Line

[OLD FAN MAN]

what is wrong with our o-line? cant give time to throw, no time for the receivers to get downfield or open, dont blow holes for the rbs, top draft picks, no results, players or coaching?

[mz1888]

I think the o-line is playing well, we are averaging 4.4 yards a carry 9th best in the nfl. We are giving Painter time to throw the ball, I think he holds the ball way to long. Thats probably because he is having a hard time going through his progressions. But for a majority of the time Painter has a nice pocket to throw from.

[oldunclemark]

what is wrong with our o-line? cant give time to throw, no time for the receivers to get downfield or open, dont blow holes for the rbs, top draft picks, no results, players or coaching?

Its better than it was last season....

mz is right......Curtis Painter's got to get rid of the ball...

For a team that cant throw consistently,,,,we're moving the ball once in awhile on the ground...

[SubZero]

IMO i like the OL Costanzo is doing a good job, Rietz is a suprise he blows holes for the line and he does great in pass protection, Saturday is a beast like always, Deims is a servicable guard, Linkenbach is probably our weekest line. Linkenbach has given up the most sacks and running on the right side we average 3.2 yards per card comparded to the 5.5 we average on the left. I just want Ijalana back to take over RT

[WSO]

Manning looked great behind our O line, imagine what he can do with the new O line + a running game.

[GoDeep]

Manning looked great behind our O line, imagine what he can do with the new O line + a running game.

Don't need to imagine. We need to remember.

[Coltssouth]

You know I was watching the game last night and the Chiefs were really getting to Brady in the first part of the game. They showed Belicheck taking notes on the sideline in the second half.

I don't think the Chiefs got to Tom after halftime.

Not turning this into a coaching debate or trying to derail the thread. Just something I observed during the game.

[a06cc]

Yeah if Manning was under center the timing and protection would be alot better!

[BleedingBlue]

You know I was watching the game last night and the Chiefs were really getting to Brady in the first part of the game. They showed Belicheck taking notes on the sideline in the second half.

I don't think the Chiefs got to Tom after halftime.

Not turning this into a coaching debate or trying to derail the thread. Just something I observed during the game.

Yes I noticed that too. Actually Bill made adjustments by the second quarter without the need for a half-time locker room meeting.

I told my wife this morning, that is the difference between one of the greatest coaches ever, and what we have.

..and too late, you started the coaching debate ;) GG moderator lol.

[Smitto]

Its easy for any Olineman to run block... doesnt take much technique to accomplish that, but i really think when some of the players like saturday, diem are gone they will get better... yes saturday is a really good player but there are reasons why those players were who they are before they joined the colts and peyton hid most of that as he did most things on this team... its hard to get good Olinemen but i think the colts do have some of the right pieces... pollack at center, AC is only getting better, Ben is gonna be really good... right now the colts need to do some cleaning up.

[Fx Stryker]

We have the wrong personnel in there. The coaches should realize Ojinaka is better than Link. I want our line next year to be Castanzo, Ijilana, Saturday, Dien, Ojinaja

Don't need to imagine. We need to remember.

i.e. 2004 season.

[Truebluefan85]

Its easy for any Olineman to run block... doesnt take much technique to accomplish that, but i really think when some of the players like saturday, diem are gone they will get better... yes saturday is a really good player but there are reasons why those players were who they are before they joined the colts and peyton hid most of that as he did most things on this team... its hard to get good Olinemen but i think the colts do have some of the right pieces... pollack at center, AC is only getting better, Ben is gonna be really good... right now the colts need to do some cleaning up.

You've obviously never played a line position. It takes incredible technique to run block. You have to have very good footwork, excellent balance, and a low center of gravity. Getting underneath the defender and driving is critical...you can't just stand straight up and push. The first step an O-lineman takes off the snap is CRITICAL to a successful run block, especially if you're pulling. They need to explode off the ball. They even need to start with the correct foot depending on which way they're blocking too. There's even a certain way to pull off double-teams. You both just don't collide into the guy in front of you. You both need to be in the correct position and the correct lineman has to pull off and get to the next level to get a backer or DB. When that happens the guy left on the defender has to take over the rest of the block.

I attended 4 lineman camps in my football career (3 in HS and 1 in college). We spent approximately 75% of our time on footwork, positioning, and TECHNIQUE. Just sayin...

[oldunclemark]

I think the line has improved over 2010...

.....We dont have the threat of a deep pass....but our backs are seeing a few holes..

[Smitto]

You've obviously never played a line position. It takes incredible technique to run block. You have to have very good footwork, excellent balance, and a low center of gravity. Getting underneath the defender and driving is critical...you can't just stand straight up and push. The first step an O-lineman takes off the snap is CRITICAL to a successful run block, especially if you're pulling. They need to explode off the ball. They even need to start with the correct foot depending on which way they're blocking too. There's even a certain way to pull off double-teams. You both just don't collide into the guy in front of you. You both need to be in the correct position and the correct lineman has to pull off and get to the next level to get a backer or DB. When that happens the guy left on the defender has to take over the rest of the block.

I attended 4 lineman camps in my football career (3 in HS and 1 in college). We spent approximately 75% of our time on footwork, positioning, and TECHNIQUE. Just sayin...

Your right i didnt and i never did want to, you can ask any Olineman and they will tell you what they would rather do... its run blocking cause basically what it all comes down to is blocking the guy infront of you unlike pass blocking where you have to have really good technique not to get beat and know which guy you are gonna block or who is coming at the same time... it doesnt take rocket science to see that.. run blocking is the easiest thing for a lineman... unless your a smaller size lineman.

What i said before still stands it doesnt take a whole lot of technique to run block its more of power and what you said whoever gets his hands under that chest area.

[BIGugly]

We have the wrong personnel in there. The coaches should realize Ojinaka is better than Link. I want our line next year to be Castanzo, Ijilana, Saturday, Dien, Ojinaja

i.e. 2004 season.

Close....Castonzo, Reitz, Saturday,Ijalana, Ojinnaka

or ...Castonzo, Reitz, Saturday, Diem, Ijalana

I guess the keys for me is Castonzo, Reitz, Saturday.....Then on the right side there are options...Diem, Ijalana, Pollak, Ojinnaka...mix and match there.

[Truebluefan85]

Your right i didnt and i never did want to, you can ask any Olineman and they will tell you what they would rather do... its run blocking cause basically what it all comes down to is blocking the guy infront of you unlike pass blocking where you have to have really good technique not to get beat and know which guy you are gonna block or who is coming at the same time... it doesnt take rocket science to see that.. run blocking is the easiest thing for a lineman... unless your a smaller size lineman.

What i said before still stands it doesnt take a whole lot of technique to run block its more of power and what you said whoever gets his hands under that chest area.

Man just stop talking. You have ZERO experience with blocking in any phase of the game...doesn't matter if you never did or wanted too, but yet you still want to act like you know something? You saying that what you said still stands...WITH NO EXPERIENCE...is asinine at best. I was a lineman for 8 years of my football career, from center to run/pass blocking TE. Run blocking is a completely different skill set than pass blocking. It has more to do with footwork and positioning than power...you make a wrong first step and guess what...YEP you're out of position. You see it all the time when O-lineman get lazy and a DT or DE gets in the backfield and blows up a play because of a wrong first step or being out of position at the snap of the ball.

And so getting your hands under that chest area is a guarenteed block? Ya right. Try to stand straight up with your hands under some guys chest and see how far you can drive him if he's lower than you lol. It has nothing do with getting your hands under that guy...like I said if you had read my post. And you're d*** right lineman want to runblock. A successful running game gives lineman a sense of power and dominance, not to mention confidence, over the other team's defense. So much more than pass blocking. What you said before DOES NOT STILL STAND. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I sure as heck don't know everything, but you sir need to stop acting like you do. It's plainly obvious by your multiple posts that you do not.

[Smitto]

Man just stop talking. You have ZERO experience with blocking in any phase of the game...doesn't matter if you never did or wanted too, but yet you still want to act like you know something? You saying that what you said still stands...WITH NO EXPERIENCE...is asinine at best. I was a lineman for 8 years of my football career, from center to run/pass blocking TE. Run blocking is a completely different skill set than pass blocking. It has more to do with footwork and positioning than power...you make a wrong first step and guess what...YEP you're out of position. You see it all the time when O-lineman get lazy and a DT or DE gets in the backfield and blows up a play because of a wrong first step or being out of position at the snap of the ball.

And so getting your hands under that chest area is a guarenteed block? Ya right. Try to stand straight up with your hands under some guys chest and see how far you can drive him if he's lower than you lol. It has nothing do with getting your hands under that guy...like I said if you had read my post. And you're d*** right lineman want to runblock. A successful running game gives lineman a sense of power and dominance, not to mention confidence, over the other team's defense. So much more than pass blocking. What you said before DOES NOT STILL STAND. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I sure as heck don't know everything, but you sir need to stop acting like you do. It's plainly obvious by your multiple posts that you do not.

..... lol.... here's a simple question for you mate... whats easier pass blocking or run blocking? why dont you answer that.. and comparing highschool football to NFL is not the same so stop.

Second i dont need to have experience blocking, like i said before you can ask any lineman and they will tell you they would rather run the ball because its EASIER.... and ive heard that from joe thomas himself while at camp... its all about taking it to the defensive lineman when running the ball unlike pass protecting when you drop back and wait for them to come to you.... how is that not easier :wacko:

[Moncrief]

Man just stop talking. You have ZERO experience with blocking in any phase of the game...doesn't matter if you never did or wanted too, but yet you still want to act like you know something? You saying that what you said still stands...WITH NO EXPERIENCE...is asinine at best. I was a lineman for 8 years of my football career, from center to run/pass blocking TE. Run blocking is a completely different skill set than pass blocking. It has more to do with footwork and positioning than power...you make a wrong first step and guess what...YEP you're out of position. You see it all the time when O-lineman get lazy and a DT or DE gets in the backfield and blows up a play because of a wrong first step or being out of position at the snap of the ball.

And so getting your hands under that chest area is a guarenteed block? Ya right. Try to stand straight up with your hands under some guys chest and see how far you can drive him if he's lower than you lol. It has nothing do with getting your hands under that guy...like I said if you had read my post. And you're d*** right lineman want to runblock. A successful running game gives lineman a sense of power and dominance, not to mention confidence, over the other team's defense. So much more than pass blocking. What you said before DOES NOT STILL STAND. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I sure as heck don't know everything, but you sir need to stop acting like you do. It's plainly obvious by your multiple posts that you do not.

I was a tightend also but more of a receiving tight end. My first year I was a guard.

[Evan]

Man just stop talking. You have ZERO experience with blocking in any phase of the game...doesn't matter if you never did or wanted too, but yet you still want to act like you know something? You saying that what you said still stands...WITH NO EXPERIENCE...is asinine at best. I was a lineman for 8 years of my football career, from center to run/pass blocking TE. Run blocking is a completely different skill set than pass blocking. It has more to do with footwork and positioning than power...you make a wrong first step and guess what...YEP you're out of position. You see it all the time when O-lineman get lazy and a DT or DE gets in the backfield and blows up a play because of a wrong first step or being out of position at the snap of the ball.

And so getting your hands under that chest area is a guarenteed block? Ya right. Try to stand straight up with your hands under some guys chest and see how far you can drive him if he's lower than you lol. It has nothing do with getting your hands under that guy...like I said if you had read my post. And you're d*** right lineman want to runblock. A successful running game gives lineman a sense of power and dominance, not to mention confidence, over the other team's defense. So much more than pass blocking. What you said before DOES NOT STILL STAND. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I sure as heck don't know everything, but you sir need to stop acting like you do. It's plainly obvious by your multiple posts that you do not.

I agree with you running blocking isn't easy. You have to be quick and if one person run block the wrong person it can easily mess up the whole play. Catching blitz while run blocking full speed and trying to change position last second looks easier then being done.

[MAC]

I think that the line looks much better this year, and when everyone is healthy (and the young guys get more experience) it may be our best line in many years. That doesn't change the fact that much of the improvement has been in run blocking. They just don't seem to be able to hold the pass blocks long enough to allow the receivers to get open past more than about 8 yards. Yes, Painter makes mental mistakes - including holding onto the ball too long - and he still often focuses on one receiver to the extent that he doesn't even notice the pressure around him in the pocket. Still, I can't help but notice that the vast majority of the pass plays are designed to get the ball out of his hands virtually instantly - even if the effect is a two yard pass when we need eight for the first down. I assume that that is because the coaches don't trust the line to hold long enough.

Painter is often under constant pressure even against teams that aren't supposed to have a great pass rush. Against the good rush teams, balls are getting tipped and he is getting hit as he throws on a continual basis. A different QB might handle it better, but this isn't all that different from last year where Peyton's yards per attempt numbers were horrible, because he was resorting to short passes on a regular basis as well (and then getting crushed to the ground - which I'm sure did wonders for his neck). His passes weren't anywhere near as short as Painters, but then again he's Peyton Manning. In neither year has the oline been an asset in the passing game. But I'm optimistic about the future, and can't wait to see Peyton playing behind them next year.

Castonzo - Reitz - Saturday (or Pollack) - Diem (or draft pick, or Pollack) - Ijalana.

[GoColts8818]

what is wrong with our o-line? cant give time to throw, no time for the receivers to get downfield or open, dont blow holes for the rbs, top draft picks, no results, players or coaching?

They are a young line that is still trying to learn and is hurt, Reitz is still out, Castonzo missed a bunch of time due to injury and is just starting to get worked back in even without the injury there were going to be "rookie" moments. Saturday is having a really good season believe it or not, like one of the best of his career. Diem has been decent but is clearly past his prime (and has been hurt) and everyone knew we still had a hole to fill that Link was a stop gap although his run blocking has not been bad in fact it's been good. His pass protection skills are only decent at best though and frankly he does better at left tackle than he does at right. The problem is we aren't going to move our first round draft pick to right tackle for a stop gap tackle to play left. I am sure the plan was for Ijalana to be coming along now but he can't since he's hurt. With as much as we've had to switch the o-line up this season I am shocked it hasn't been a bigger issue than it has been and it's only become a big issue lately. With that said they are clearly much better run blocking this seaosn than in recent memory. The problem is now we get behind so much in games so quickly we have to give up on the run. If we can get our passing game to the point teams have to respect it our running game will improve (honestly who saw that ONE coming a year ago?)

[GoColts8818]

You know I was watching the game last night and the Chiefs were really getting to Brady in the first part of the game. They showed Belicheck taking notes on the sideline in the second half.

I don't think the Chiefs got to Tom after halftime.

Not turning this into a coaching debate or trying to derail the thread. Just something I observed during the game.

Not to make a coaching debate happen either I just wanted to point out just because a coach doesn't take notes doesn't mean they don't make changes. Dungy hardly if ever took notes but yet the Colts always made good half-time adjustments under him for the second half. I think that's a case of either Dungy telling an assistant to make changes or just remembering what he wanted changed. Some people need the note some don't.

Now while Caldwell might have gone to the none taking notes class from Dungy he clearly skipped the half-time adjustments class.

[Truebluefan85]

..... lol.... here's a simple question for you mate... whats easier pass blocking or run blocking? why dont you answer that.. and comparing highschool football to NFL is not the same so stop.

Second i dont need to have experience blocking, like i said before you can ask any lineman and they will tell you they would rather run the ball because its EASIER.... and ive heard that from joe thomas himself while at camp... its all about taking it to the defensive lineman when running the ball unlike pass protecting when you drop back and wait for them to come to you.... how is that not easier :wacko:

I played four years of football in college...that's a little different than high school so I suggest you just stop. And to be perfectly honest, run blocking is not easier than pass blocking. LIKE I SAID IN MY POST...they are completely different skill sets. So exactly ONE lineman tells you it's easier so it must be gospel right? The portion of your post that I put in bold says it all...you have no experience but you claim to know everything there is to know because ONE lineman told you so. I think I just made my point...

[Truebluefan85]

I

[Smitto]

I played four years of football in college...that's a little different than high school so I suggest you just stop. And to be perfectly honest, run blocking is not easier than pass blocking. LIKE I SAID IN MY POST...they are completely different skill sets. So exactly ONE lineman tells you it's easier so it must be gospel right? The portion of your post that I put in bold says it all...you have no experience but you claim to know everything there is to know because ONE lineman told you so. I think I just made my point...

http://www.ehow.com/about_5367660_tight-end-do.html

I didnt say Joe Thomas told me that he was talking to the media, and he is not the only who says or agree with that notion... obviously they are different because you arent doing the same thing...

All im gonna say is you dont have to be a Olineman to know which one is easier just like you dont have to be a mom to know being a mother is hard... I played QB and LB at both levels in school in the US.. its not all about technique, some Olinemans have trouble remembering the pass protections... this argument is boring now... ive provided you with a link and a pretty good one i might add.......... and its also common sense to know which one is easier and which one isnt.

End of

[mammo]

what if there are adjustments being made at half time, i mean we play better in the second half compared to the first half, which we play poorly, its like painter just got out of bed and doesnt wake up fully until after having oranges

[OLD FAN MAN]

They are a young line that is still trying to learn and is hurt, Reitz is still out, Castonzo missed a bunch of time due to injury and is just starting to get worked back in even without the injury there were going to be "rookie" moments. Saturday is having a really good season believe it or not, like one of the best of his career. Diem has been decent but is clearly past his prime (and has been hurt) and everyone knew we still had a hole to fill that Link was a stop gap although his run blocking has not been bad in fact it's been good. His pass protection skills are only decent at best though and frankly he does better at left tackle than he does at right. The problem is we aren't going to move our first round draft pick to right tackle for a stop gap tackle to play left. I am sure the plan was for Ijalana to be coming along now but he can't since he's hurt. With as much as we've had to switch the o-line up this season I am shocked it hasn't been a bigger issue than it has been and it's only become a big issue lately. With that said they are clearly much better run blocking this seaosn than in recent memory. The problem is now we get behind so much in games so quickly we have to give up on the run. If we can get our passing game to the point teams have to respect it our running game will improve (honestly who saw that ONE coming a year ago?)

both casto and link at times look slow and awkward, can they improve with coaching and playing time? does anyone know or can link be swtched with someone else, or do we need help from a new player?

[BIGugly]

what if there are adjustments being made at half time, i mean we play better in the second half compared to the first half, which we play poorly, its like painter just got out of bed and doesnt wake up fully until after having oranges

1st quarter points first 11 games = 13

3rd quarter points first 11 games = 16

3 point improvement in 3rd quarter adjustments first 11 games = 0.27 points improvement per game

More coffee needed ?????

I can't do more beer, well, maybe....

[OLD FAN MAN]

1st quarter points first 11 games = 13

3rd quarter points first 11 games = 16

3 point improvement in 3rd quarter adjustments first 11 games = 0.27 points improvement per game

More coffee needed ?????

I can't do more beer, well, maybe....

adjustments wont fix it, we need talent on the o-line

[mammo]

1st quarter points first 11 games = 13

3rd quarter points first 11 games = 16

3 point improvement in 3rd quarter adjustments first 11 games = 0.27 points improvement per game

More coffee needed ?????

I can't do more beer, well, maybe....

, yeah, i mean they move the ball better, anyone got a stat for 1st downs made 1st half compared to second half? or 1st quarter to 3rd quarter because of 4th quarter cushions

[OLD FAN MAN]

, yeah, i mean they move the ball better, anyone got a stat for 1st downs made 1st half compared to second half? or 1st quarter to 3rd quarter because of 4th quarter cushions

hope our new starting qb dosent get hurt behind this o-line, then its back to painter