Barkley Over Luck?

[manningstheman]

Matt Barkley at USC is a much better pro style passer then Luck in my opinion. Standford is a run happy offense. USC is a pass happy offense. When was the last time the Colts were a run happy offense? I know if Luck was drafted and Peyton didnt play next year for us that the running game can not carries us. So, do we need a passer like Barkley, alot like Peyton, to lead us? I dont know.

[FireJimCaldwell]

We need to change our system from being so QB heavy. Trading the #1 pick and picking up Barkley later is an option. Barkley or Luck or anyone for that matter won't make a huge difference if we don't change what we are doing.

[manningstheman]

I agree, infact I dont want anyone but Peyton QBing for this team next year. I am just saying if we do stay with this mind set on offense, that Luck really isnt the guy we want. But, I agree, we need a complete over haul of our offense and defense. This whole experience of 2011 is just sad and eye awakening. If that makes any sense at all.

[Case]

I agree, infact I dont want anyone but Peyton QBing for this team next year. I am just saying if we do stay with this mind set on offense, that Luck really isnt the guy we want. But, I agree, we need a complete over haul of our offense and defense. This whole experience of 2011 is just sad and eye awakening. If that makes any sense at all.

Explain why luck isn't a pro ready qb and Barkley is. I'll wait.

[manningstheman]

I never said that Luck isnt a pro ready QB. Tell me where I did? Read the threads first dude. I said that Luck is from a run happy offense. Infact, I will go even further. He is from Big Ten run happy offense that Harbaugh established at Standford. Harbaugh runs a Big Ten offense. Heavy running, and hard nose defense. That doesnt work in the NFL. Brady is a freak, and Brees was from a spread offense. Besides these QBs can anyone tell me another Big Ten QB that was great for in the NFL for a long time now. It worked in the Pac 10, but it doesnt mean it will work in the NFL. Like I said many times before, I think Luck will be a fine QB in this league. But, he will not work in our offense. Unless we completely restructure our team. We can not run the ball.

[manningstheman]

Barkley on the other hand is from a pro style pass happy offense. He can go under center and run or pass. He will be a good NFl QB.

[colts52761]

What about RG3 in the discusion?

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

You have to take into consideration the Talent Barkely has. Robert Woods and Kyle Prayter were top 5 recruits in the nation. Marques Lee was like top 20. There are like 3 top 10 recuits who arent even playing because others are playing better right now.

Look at that O-line, and the stable of running backs, Dillion Baxter was like top 10 in the nation and is 4th on the roster.

Stanford on the other hand have a special coaching staff. Barklely like Mark Sanchez before him, and Matt Lienart before him...will struggle in the NFL.

I dont know why there college talents arent transferring to the nfl.

[ColtsD]

I tried to watch luck lastnite to judge for myself, but only saw a few plays by him b4 i fell asleep. I'll just say this definately draft the best qb available then he may have to play behind peyton for a little while. Just get ready for change be it a slow change or an abrupt one.

[doogansquest]

We need to change our system from being so QB heavy. Trading the #1 pick and picking up Barkley later is an option. Barkley or Luck or anyone for that matter won't make a huge difference if we don't change what we are doing.

Seeing as how every team now builds around the QB, and this is a QB-driven league, and the run/pass ratio for most teams has shifted to 35/65...

I think it makes sense to focus on what the QB is doing. The Colts were just ahead of the curve. Curtis Painter is a bigger problem than the rest of the team.

[Coltsman1788]

Hmmmm...after watching Luck closely the last two weeks, I am trying to figure out if Luck is over-rated or if it is just that he doesn't have the best receiving options around him. I do see talent that could translate well at the next level if he has the right personel around him.

Landry Jones, RG3 and Matt Barkley all played better than Luck last night. With Barkley's performance coming against an Oregon defense that gave Luck some problems. But one night or a couple of weeks for that matter doesn't mean that any of these guys are better pro prospects. Nevertheless, I am starting to see that the gap that exists between Luck and some of the others probably isn't as great as some scouts or people in the media would have us to believe.

For now I'm still leaning in favor of taking Luck, but I am listening to offers.

[shaunzo]

Heavy running, and hard nose defense. That doesnt work in the NFL.

As Chris Carter would say, "C'mon maaaaaaaan!!!"

[FalseStart]

A. Manning is going to give us 3-4 more solid years.

B. (If Manning is done or the Colts Organization thinks he is done AND they don't want to pay the 28 million roster bonus next year...)

OPTION A.

RD 1: Draft Luck (Trade to Miami or Washington for their next three RD 1 picks.

RD 1: Draft Barkley...Trade Barkley to Washington or Seattle for 2 RD 1 picks and a RD 2...

RD 1: Draft Clayborne CB or Kirkpatrick CB or Martin OT or Kalil OT (From Miami/Washington)

RD 2: Draft Decastro G

RD 2: Draft Barron SS (From WASH/MIAMI or SEATTLE)

RD 3: Draft BEST Available...

RD 4: Draft BEST Available...

RD 5: Draft BEST Available...

2013

(3 RD 1 Picks) (From 2012 Luck/Barkley and our normal RD 1)

2014 ****DRAFT QB****

(2 RD 1 Picks) (From 2012 Luck and our normal RD 1)

2015

Back to Normal (Peyton Retires)

OPTION B.

RD 1: Draft Andrew Luck QB

RD 2: Draft Decastro G or Konz C

RD 3: Best Available...etc...etc...etc...etc...

[BOTT]

Matt Barkley at USC is a much better pro style passer then Luck in my opinion. Standford is a run happy offense. USC is a pass happy offense. When was the last time the Colts were a run happy offense? I know if Luck was drafted and Peyton didnt play next year for us that the running game can not carries us. So, do we need a passer like Barkley, alot like Peyton, to lead us? I dont know.

people are getting way to caught up in what kinda of offense each qb is playing while in college. it's not lilke luck is running the wishbone. stanford prolly plays that way cause they lack athleticism at the wr position, but have an excellent run blocking offensive line.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Seeing as how every team now builds around the QB, and this is a QB-driven league, and the run/pass ratio for most teams has shifted to 35/65...

I think it makes sense to focus on what the QB is doing. The Colts were just ahead of the curve. Curtis Painter is a bigger problem than the rest of the team.

That might be the case, but exchanging Luck for Manning is simply asking for Luck to be better than Manning. An overhaul of the offensive system, and a WCO for example will take some pressure off of a QB because it is a sound system that allows a team to maximize a qb's abilities. Without an overhaul, I think the next 13 years or so will be a struggle to surpass the last 13 years or so and that was an underachievement for the most part.

Part of the problem this year has been to ask Painter/Orlovsky & Collins to run Peyton Manning's offense. Even another elite qb would take some time to become adequate in it and I'm talking about guys like Brady Brees and Rodgers. Over time they could excel in it but early on it wouldn't run as nearly as efficient as it has with Manning.

With that said if you put Manning in a qb friendly system like the WCO or the Patriots offense, I think his #'s would be even higher than they have been.

[Farns01]

people are getting way to caught up in what kinda of offense each qb is playing while in college. it's not lilke luck is running the wishbone. stanford prolly plays that way cause they lack athleticism at the wr position, but have an excellent run blocking offensive line.

BINGO, we have a winner. As said before Barkley has better surround talent at the WR position. Luck has to play with TE's. His only real deep threat has a problem with concussions. I believe he has had 3 this year alone.

[a06cc]

Seen Luck play the other day and I wouldn't be upset if we drafted him in the first round. Andrew Luck can play on a team with injured players and still put up points. Stanford hasn't played a quality team until they played the Ducks, but he still had a good game. I would also really like for us to get a couple of dominate defensive player, and there's plenty of guys that would turn this defense into a top 5-10 defense. I kid you not when I say this either.

[hnrbacha]

Luck is successful as a quarterback in an offense with a run heavy offense. When he really needs to pass in high pressure situations, he can't. Barkley, however, carves up high tier defenses on a weekly basis. If we took luck, he could not execute his familiar gameplan with addai or carter or brown in the backfield. Dallas Clark and Joseph Addai have not played with any production for two or three seasons: trade them for a first round pick, take barkley and then take a running back like montee ball or trent richardson with the other first round pick. If Peyton can play, he gets help fromm the running game, if barkley playsl, the young quarterback gets to ease into a NFL career.

[unitaswestand]

Well, in all fairness, look at the 49ers who are running Harbaugh offensive. Alex Smith is looking like Joe Montana. So it does raise the question, is Luck really this elite talent or is he in an offense and system that elevates his play?

[manningstheman]

Well, in all fairness, look at the 49ers who are running Harbaugh offensive. Alex Smith is looking like Joe Montana. So it does raise the question, is Luck really this elite talent or is he in an offense and system that elevates his play?

Alex Smith looks like Montana? Well, I am not sure if I agree with that, but the system Harbaugh runs makes it easier for the QB. I am not saying that Luck isnt a great player. He is. Just something about him that makes me nervous.

[pacolts56]

Luck is successful as a quarterback in an offense with a run heavy offense. When he really needs to pass in high pressure situations, he can't. Barkley, however, carves up high tier defenses on a weekly basis.

rotfl !!!!!!!......high tier defenses?

< game show buzzer >

I'm not a statwhore...but these two guys played several common opponents and Barkley's opponents Arizona. Arizona State, Colorado, Minnesota, Oregon, Syracuse and Washington ALL reside in the bottom half of NCAA defensive rankings.

And NONE of his opponents are in the Top 20 defensively.

Look....if you like Matt Barkley better than Andrew Luck....even considering Luck has far less talent at WR....that's fine.

But at least be accurate.

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[Fr33UpFr33ney]

I'm a big Trojan Fan and I cant vouch for any USC QB anymore, After Palmer, Lienhart and eventually Sanchez.

The universe is upside down when a player plays like Lienhart and Palmer and decline so far in the NFL. And a 1 year starter Sanchez goes first round and Gets to the Playoffs and then starts to suck.

The only difference between Barkley and The other three, is that he has been heralded as the Golden Child since his 13 birthday. Started as a true freshman, which never happens. He has a spectacular off the field resume.

He has great Tangibles, but played at a collegiate level slightly lower than Palmer and Leinhart. Pretty much three years of playing at the Level of Mark Sanchez. ]

That, I dont trust. And given the tradition, I wouldn't not be comfortorable putting a lot of faith into him.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Hmmm... I still don't want a QB because we don't need one so yeah... it doesn't really matter.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Matt Barkley and Andrew Luck both play in the Pac-12, they don't really play top defenses. Oregon is not a top defense. They rank 40th in points allowed as a team.

[Jason_]

BINGO, we have a winner. As said before Barkley has better surround talent at the WR position. Luck has to play with TE's. His only real deep threat has a problem with concussions. I believe he has had 3 this year alone.

Barkley does have better talent at WR, but Luck doesn't "have to play with TEs"...he GETS to play with 3 great TEs. Luck also has the advantage on the OL. Yes Barkley has Kalil but Luck has Martin and DeCastro. Overall the talent around them is pretty comparable,just in different areas. Luck also gets more help from his running game than Barkley does.

If you want to play the "who does more with less talent around him" game then Nick Foles wins that contest easy. An all rookie OL (not all freshment but all brand new at the position they've been playing this year...though both OTs ARE freshmen), average to below average TEs, one highly talented veteran receiver in Juron Criner (who has been struggling with injuries all year) and other talented but young and inconsistent WRs. One talented RB in Keola Antolin who's not able to be really consistent with the young OL they have. Yet, with all this against him Arizona is still the 3rd highest ranked passing offense in the FBS. If it weren't for the fact there are only 2 FBS teams out of 120 that have a worse defense than Arizona then they'd have quite a few more wins right now.

[noah larson]

rotfl !!!!!!!......high tier defenses?

< game show buzzer >

I'm not a statwhore...but these two guys played several common opponents and Barkley's opponents Arizona. Arizona State, Colorado, Minnesota, Oregon, Syracuse and Washington ALL reside in the bottom half of NCAA defensive rankings.

And NONE of his opponents are in the Top 20 defensively.

Look....if you like Matt Barkley better than Andrew Luck....even considering Luck has far less talent at WR....that's fine.

But at least be accurate.

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Lucks TE's are such a mismatch for other teams that i think it's a wash. Lets forget to mention the better Running game and O-line that Luck has too. DeCastro is probably the best guard to come out in the last five years and Martin is not far behind Kalil. I still think that Barkley and Luck are nose to nose

[pacolts56]

Lucks TE's are such a mismatch for other teams that i think it's a wash. Lets forget to mention the better Running game and O-line that Luck has too. DeCastro is probably the best guard to come out in the last five years and Martin is not far behind Kalil. I still think that Barkley and Luck are nose to nose

And that has exactly what to do with someone's inaccurate post regarding Barkley's play against top tier defenses?

Barkley and Luck play very close to the same teams....and none of them are "top tier" defenses so it needed to be pointed out.

You're right about Stanford's TEs being matchup nightmares, but the O-line stunk out loud against both USC and Oregon....so I'm not so sure I agree as much with the lofty praise you give them.

By now....it should be clear to everyone that USC is an under rated football team and Barkley is obviously a key part of that.

They are ineligible to be ranked by the BCS and have flown under the radar. The win at Oregon was very impressive....and Barkley deserves alot of credit.

[a06cc]

I'd have to take Luck, but he has a few things that need alot of work. He throws the ball soft at times on the back shoulder throw and his 3 step drop needs to be quicker for the NFL. His soft throws would be picked off in the NFL. His mobility is what makes me make the choice. His ability to throw on the run is something you must have now a days at the next level. Matt Barkley has just as much talent at the QB spot as Luck, but he isn't as mobile. He might work in our system because Manning isn't mobile.

[Bleedin Blue]

I know the consensus is Luck, but Matt Barkley looks like he will be great also so either way I think the Colts could get a QB of the future.

[JoKeR]

people are getting way to caught up in what kinda of offense each qb is playing while in college. it's not lilke luck is running the wishbone. stanford prolly plays that way cause they lack athleticism at the wr position, but have an excellent run blocking offensive line.

Exactly. The offense isn't designed around Luck and if they had more/better receivers it would be more of a passing offense. Gotta remember Stanford isn't going to get top tier talent all over the team.

[Xfiles]

Its so wierd....I keep seeing so many Correlations between Luck vs. Barkley and Manning vs. Leaf that I am starting to believe the Football gods are checking to see if we are paying attention.

Manning vs. Leaf

1. Leaf wins big games, Manning doesnt

2. Leaf has a big time NFL arm, Manning doesnt

3. Leaf has a higher potential in a Pro-style offense, Manning doesnt

Luck vs. Barkely

1. Barkley beat Oregon, Luck didnt

2. Barkley throws a faster, tighter spiral, Luck doesnt

3. Barkely plays in a more prostyle offense, Luck plays on a team that runs the ball

If Manning vs. Leaf has taught us ANYTHING it should be that a bigger arm, and a higher possible ceiling shouldnt be the determining factors for choosing a quarterback. heck, I hardly see anyone bringing up that Barkley has Wide recievers who can fly all over the field, and Luck lost his speed guy, so all he has to throw to are solid TE's and possesion WR's. This is getting wierd.

[manningstheman]

Its so wierd....I keep seeing so many Correlations between Luck vs. Barkley and Manning vs. Leaf that I am starting to believe the Football gods are checking to see if we are paying attention.

Manning vs. Leaf

1. Leaf wins big games, Manning doesnt

2. Leaf has a big time NFL arm, Manning doesnt

3. Leaf has a higher potential in a Pro-style offense, Manning doesnt

Luck vs. Barkely

1. Barkley beat Oregon, Luck didnt

2. Barkley throws a faster, tighter spiral, Luck doesnt

3. Barkely plays in a more prostyle offense, Luck plays on a team that runs the ball

If Manning vs. Leaf has taught us ANYTHING it should be that a bigger arm, and a higher possible ceiling shouldnt be the determining factors for choosing a quarterback. heck, I hardly see anyone bringing up that Barkley has Wide recievers who can fly all over the field, and Luck lost his speed guy, so all he has to throw to are solid TE's and possesion WR's. This is getting wierd.

No ones has ever said that Peyton didnt have a big arm. That was one of the +'s for Manning. Also, Luck has never been said to not throw a nice ball. Also, we are talking about different Conferences. The SEC is and has always been better then the Pac 10. There was a few years were USC payed players to win championships, but besides that the SEC is a much harder conferance. That is why u would pick Peyton over Leaf. The problem is both great QBs are in the Pac 10.

[pacolts56]

No ones has ever said that Peyton didnt have a big arm. That was one of the +'s for Manning. Also, Luck has never been said to not throw a nice ball. Also, we are talking about different Conferences. The SEC is and has always been better then the Pac 10. There was a few years were USC payed players to win championships, but besides that the SEC is a much harder conferance. That is why u would pick Peyton over Leaf. The problem is both great QBs are in the Pac 10.

rotfl.....Jamarcus Russell / Heath Shuler / Tim Couch

You make it sound like the SEC is "bust proof" at QB.... and the SEC isn't exactly a bastion of virtue when it comes to questionable ethics (see Cam Newton) and especially academics.... where they are an absolute embarrassment to higher education among their so-called student athletes.

Anyway.... Ryan Leaf clearly proved to be a poorly scouted head-case and had the work ethic of a sluggard.... much like your SEC's Jamarcus Russell. Which is why the two of them represent the biggest busts in NFL history.

John Elway and Peyton Manning.....two of the greatest QBs of all time from each of the Pac-10/12 and SEC proved the opposite.

Conclusion......it's not the conference my friend, its the player.

[manningstheman]

rotfl.....Jamarcus Russell / Heath Shuler / Tim Couch

You make it sound like the SEC is "bust proof" at QB.... and the SEC isn't exactly a bastion of virtue when it comes to questionable ethics (see Cam Newton) and especially academics.... where they are an absolute embarrassment to higher education among their so-called student athletes.

Anyway.... Ryan Leaf clearly proved to be a poorly scouted head-case and had the work ethic of a sluggard.... much like your SEC's Jamarcus Russell. Which is why the two of them represent the biggest busts in NFL history.

John Elway and Peyton Manning.....two of the greatest QBs of all time from each of the Pac-10/12 and SEC proved the opposite.

Conclusion......it's not the conference my friend, its the player.

You are right it is the Player, of course. But, to scout a Player you have to look at the talent level of his opponents as well. I still have no idea why Couch was taken so high. His Kentucky teams never really competed to well against the other SEC teams. Also, when Russell was selected there just plain wasnt any QBs in the draft. I mean the other big name that draft was Brady Quinn. He seems to be a life long clipboard toater. So, no matter what any of us think, or the experts, noone knows how any of these kids are going to play in the league.

[pacolts56]

You are right it is the Player, of course. But, to scout a Player you have to look at the talent level of his opponents as well. I still have no idea why Couch was taken so high. His Kentucky teams never really competed to well against the other SEC teams. Also, when Russell was selected there just plain wasnt any QBs in the draft. I mean the other big name that draft was Brady Quinn. He seems to be a life long clipboard toater. So, no matter what any of us think, or the experts, noone knows how any of these kids are going to play in the league.

Yes.... competition is definitely a factor.

It'll be interesting, now that most of these QBs who are draft eligible are nearing the end of their careers, to see where they wind up in the draft based on their careers and the combine process.

With anywhere from 5 - 7 of them projected in the first 3 rounds we get a large sample this year.

[Jason_]

Yes.... competition is definitely a factor.

It'll be interesting, now that most of these QBs who are draft eligible are nearing the end of their careers, to see where they wind up in the draft based on their careers and the combine process.

With anywhere from 5 - 7 of them projected in the first 3 rounds we get a large sample this year.

Heck I think there'll be 5-7 taken in the first round alone. What I can't wait to see is which teams fall in love with which prospects and what deals are made on draft day. Will teams focus on one prospect and try to make moves to get that prospect or will they be content to take the player that falls to them. It will also be interesting to see the final draft order and where the QB needy teams wind up in the draft order.

If teams like St. Louis and Minnesota wind up finishing in the top 5 then they could be in a very good position. The question is would they simply take the BPA that fills a need or would they try to trade down a few places to a team they know is going to be looking for a QB, knowing a quality OT or WR would still be there for them to grab if they do drop down a few spots. If Miami finishes behind Washington, would they try to move up for the QB of their choice or wait and take the best available at their spot. So many questions. I'm really looking forward to this draft to see how it plays out...not just for the Colts but overall.

[jwilli69]

No ones has ever said that Peyton didnt have a big arm. That was one of the +'s for Manning. Also, Luck has never been said to not throw a nice ball. Also, we are talking about different Conferences. The SEC is and has always been better then the Pac 10. There was a few years were USC payed players to win championships, but besides that the SEC is a much harder conferance. That is why u would pick Peyton over Leaf. The problem is both great QBs are in the Pac 10.

Yes, that was the scouting report in the draft. peyton Manning could make all the throws and had the best pedigree and had the best smarts to play the game but lacked the elite arm strength of a Ryan leaf. Manning was the most ready to play this game and Ryan Leaf had the upside to eclipse him with a year or two of coaching. It was not the plus for him, it really was his only negative aside from the not winning the big game.

What I would want to know from the scouting of these 2 guys is who has the best football smarts (ie: able to breakdown defenses, watches film and understands it, can throw a deep ball with accuracy and has the mental stamina to be broken down and come back from it). i am assuming they both can make the 3,5, 7 drop from under center? Who plays better when pressure is at him? I again will assume that both will excell while having Tom Brady oline protection time but what can either do when given the Colts oline prodection?

I still think if Manning is back under center for the next season, you trade that #1 pick and obtain more pieces for this team in both this season and in next. Would a #1 this year and next plus a #3 enough for a drop down 1 or 2 spots? Would another team give up that much for a given player? I can't wait for the combine and draft to get here already since this year is over pretty much.

[smittywerb]

Well, in all fairness, look at the 49ers who are running Harbaugh offensive. Alex Smith is looking like Joe Montana. So it does raise the question, is Luck really this elite talent or is he in an offense and system that elevates his play?

Alex Smith is a game manager in Harbaugh's offense nothing more.

[presto123]

I'm starting to wonder now? From what I've seen the last few weeks I think I would give the edge to Barkley and I was totally sold on Luck before. Could Luck be another Matt Leinert?

[manningstheman]

I'm starting to wonder now? From what I've seen the last few weeks I think I would give the edge to Barkley and I was totally sold on Luck before. Could Luck be another Matt Leinert?

I dont know, could Barkley be the another Leaf. I doubt he will be that bad, but still. I guess that is why I write in blogs, and the pros pick the players. lol. Its easier in here to think your right.