Play action: The missing ingredient

[Jeffrey Jeff]

COLTS REALLY STUNK IT UP AGAINST SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 that PRE SESON GAME JUST REALLY PUT THE COLTS INTO THEIR PLACE ND PERSPECTIVE,,,,,,,,,,,,,Shows how far away we really are from being an elite top five team,,,,,,,,,,,,Saints kicked our Azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz in every phase/game,,,,,,,,,,,,How can we compete w/ the elite teams we hardly can we do not have the D or OLINE or the Running game ,,,,,,,,,Soooooooo We'll get to the play-offs but will stutter when facing a team like NE...............Or KC again we are not going to be able to miraculously pull a come back like that again against KC or anyone.......We didn't do enough in FA or the draft Or nor do we have the personal players to be that elite top team Unfortunitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Superman]

A couple of thoughts:

 

Nice reply.

 

1) Obviously, the better your run game is, the more effective your play action will be. But despite our poor run game, the passing offense is still more effective when using play action. (And that's true pretty much around the league. The only QBs last season that weren't plus in a/YPA were Matt Schaub, Geno Smith, and Matt Ryan. There were a few that weren't plus in passer rating, but a/YPA is more telling.) I'm advocating it because I think our offense does better off of play action, not because I think our offense will automatically be as good as those other teams.

 

2) I don't really agree with those concerns, but I understand them. And obviously, I understand that preseason doesn't necessarily correlate to regular season. But the numbers were close last year, and the dropoff this season is pretty drastic. I fully expect more play action, but I am a little concerned that the percentage has gone down. Harnish is at 6.5%; I don't think the team is trying to protect him from injury (and though it's a small sample size, his numbers are much better on play action). Hasselbeck is at 11.8%, and Luck is at 9.1%. I'm hoping the regular season percentage is closer to 30%. That's a wide gap.

 

This could absolutely be about preseason gameplanning. Maybe things will be very different come September. I hope so. But my whole hope is that the team goes in the opposite direction and really embraces a more efficient approach. I also hope that the run game is more effective, and if it is, and that coincides with an increase in play action, that will be great. But we'll never know the real reason for the difference, if there is one.

[coltsdan]

Where is a Shanahan when you need one?  Is there a Shanahan in the house?

[OffensivelyPC]

Nice reply.

 

1) Obviously, the better your run game is, the more effective your play action will be. But despite our poor run game, the passing offense is still more effective when using play action. (And that's true pretty much around the league. The only QBs last season that weren't plus in a/YPA were Matt Schaub, Geno Smith, and Matt Ryan. There were a few that weren't plus in passer rating, but a/YPA is more telling.) I'm advocating it because I think our offense does better off of play action, not because I think our offense will automatically be as good as those other teams.

 

2) I don't really agree with those concerns, but I understand them. And obviously, I understand that preseason doesn't necessarily correlate to regular season. But the numbers were close last year, and the dropoff this season is pretty drastic. I fully expect more play action, but I am a little concerned that the percentage has gone down. Harnish is at 6.5%; I don't think the team is trying to protect him from injury (and though it's a small sample size, his numbers are much better on play action). Hasselbeck is at 11.8%, and Luck is at 9.1%. I'm hoping the regular season percentage is closer to 30%. That's a wide gap.

 

This could absolutely be about preseason gameplanning. Maybe things will be very different come September. I hope so. But my whole hope is that the team goes in the opposite direction and really embraces a more efficient approach. I also hope that the run game is more effective, and if it is, and that coincides with an increase in play action, that will be great. But we'll never know the real reason for the difference, if there is one.

I had meant to ask you about preseason numbers last year, because that helps in establishing precedent.  But like you said, all is forgiven really if it's different in September.  If we do game plan to run play action that few of times, we're telegraphing our punches if you ask me.  Part of the reason you call plays that haven't been working in a game is to not tip your hand and give the opponent any indication that your tendencies are changing.  Well, you don't really cause opponents much confusion when your presnap read is run or pass 90% of the time.  As a linebacker or DB, it makes it a lot easier to gamble on your presnap read because in theory, you'll only be wrong 10% of the time, and it may not even cause any damage if you have help in coverage.

[jvan1973]

The missing ingredient is Richie Incognito!

That must be a terrible recipe then

[jvan1973]

COLTS REALLY STUNK IT UP AGAINST SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that PRE SESON GAME JUST REALLY PUT THE COLTS INTO THEIR PLACE ND PERSPECTIVE,,,,,,,,,,,,,Shows how far away we really are from being an elite top five team,,,,,,,,,,,,Saints kicked our Azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz in every phase/game,,,,,,,,,,,,How can we compete w/ the elite teams we hardly can we do not have the D or OLINE or the Running game ,,,,,,,,,Soooooooo We'll get to the play-offs but will stutter when facing a team like NE...............Or KC again we are not going to be able to miraculously pull a come back like that again against KC or anyone.......We didn't do enough in FA or the draft Or nor do we have the personal players to be that elite top team Unfortunitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jskinnz.. paging Jskinnz

[Narcosys]

Hey supes...when you applying for coaching?  At least pop warner.

[Superman]

I had meant to ask you about preseason numbers last year, because that helps in establishing precedent.  But like you said, all is forgiven really if it's different in September.  If we do game plan to run play action that few of times, we're telegraphing our punches if you ask me.  Part of the reason you call plays that haven't been working in a game is to not tip your hand and give the opponent any indication that your tendencies are changing.  Well, you don't really cause opponents much confusion when your presnap read is run or pass 90% of the time.  As a linebacker or DB, it makes it a lot easier to gamble on your presnap read because in theory, you'll only be wrong 10% of the time, and it may not even cause any damage if you have help in coverage.

 

Yeah it was nearly identical last year. Luck was at 19.6% in the preseason, 19.5% in the regular season.

 

And I agree with you about establishing trends. Have to do that before you can really use trend busters, like fakes or misdirection. For instance, that old FB fake HB pitch doesn't work as well if you never hand the ball to your FB.

 

I guess what they're mostly trying to do is establish some rhythm in the passing game, and that's very important for our offense. We have 74 called rushing plays, and 124 called passing plays. That's a 63:37 ratio in favor of passing plays. That will probably be more balanced, maybe 57-60% passes, at most, ideally. So whatever trends I'm noticing in preseason likely won't hold over to the regular season.

[Superman]

Hey supes...when you applying for coaching?  At least pop warner.

 

I'd love to, but it's not in the cards.

[Superman]

Jskinnz.. paging Jskinnz

 

Seriously...

 

There's a lot of off topic mouth foaming going on lately.

[open window]

COLTS REALLY STUNK IT UP AGAINST SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that PRE SESON GAME JUST REALLY PUT THE COLTS INTO THEIR PLACE ND PERSPECTIVE,,,,,,,,,,,,,Shows how far away we really are from being an elite top five team,,,,,,,,,,,,Saints kicked our Azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz in every phase/game,,,,,,,,,,,,How can we compete w/ the elite teams we hardly can we do not have the D or OLINE or the Running game ,,,,,,,,,Soooooooo We'll get to the play-offs but will stutter when facing a team like NE...............Or KC again we are not going to be able to miraculously pull a come back like that again against KC or anyone.......We didn't do enough in FA or the draft Or nor do we have the personal players to be that elite top team Unfortunitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

calm down, you are hysterical.

[Coffeedrinker]

COLTS REALLY STUNK IT UP AGAINST SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 that PRE SESON GAME JUST REALLY PUT THE COLTS INTO THEIR PLACE ND PERSPECTIVE,,,,,,,,,,,,,Shows how far away we really are from being an elite top five team,,,,,,,,,,,,Saints kicked our Azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz in every phase/game,,,,,,,,,,,,How can we compete w/ the elite teams we hardly can we do not have the D or OLINE or the Running game ,,,,,,,,,Soooooooo We'll get to the play-offs but will stutter when facing a team like NE...............Or KC again we are not going to be able to miraculously pull a come back like that again against KC or anyone.......We didn't do enough in FA or the draft Or nor do we have the personal players to be that elite top team Unfortunitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know about everyone else but I personally think it adds validity to a view point when a person uses ,,,,,,,,,,,,, and .............. and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all in the same sentence.  Then it's punctuated (pun intended) with randomly placed upper case letters and words.

 

My favorite and the single item that tells me Jeffrey Jeff knows what he's talking about is the use of the "Or nor", at the same time he is saying the Colts problems could be one of the following items he lists and the Colts problems are all of the items he lists. That is a level of genius rarely seen on this or any forum. In the English language that ranks right up there with referring to yourself in the 4th person.

[Gavin]

I don't know about everyone else but I personally think it adds validity to a view point when a person uses ,,,,,,,,,,,,, and .............. and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all in the same sentence.  Then it's punctuated (pun intended) with randomly placed upper case letters and words.

 

My favorite and the single item that tells me Jeffrey Jeff knows what he's talking about is the use of the "Or nor", at the same time he is saying the Colts problems could be one of the following items he lists and the Colts problems are all of the items he lists. That is a level of genius rarely seen on this or any forum. In the English language that ranks right up there with referring to yourself in the 4th person.

"that ranks right up there with referring to yourself in the 4th person."

 

 

 

I did not know that was possible

[jskinnz]

COLTS REALLY STUNK IT UP AGAINST SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 that PRE SESON GAME JUST REALLY PUT THE COLTS INTO THEIR PLACE ND PERSPECTIVE,,,,,,,,,,,,,Shows how far away we really are from being an elite top five team,,,,,,,,,,,,Saints kicked our Azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz in every phase/game,,,,,,,,,,,,How can we compete w/ the elite teams we hardly can we do not have the D or OLINE or the Running game ,,,,,,,,,Soooooooo We'll get to the play-offs but will stutter when facing a team like NE...............Or KC again we are not going to be able to miraculously pull a come back like that again against KC or anyone.......We didn't do enough in FA or the draft Or nor do we have the personal players to be that elite top team Unfortunitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dear God...

[Superman]

"that ranks right up there with referring to yourself in the 4th person."

 

 

 

I did not know that was possible

 

Yeah, I need an example.

[jskinnz]

I don't know about everyone else but I personally think it adds validity to a view point when a person uses ,,,,,,,,,,,,, and .............. and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all in the same sentence.  Then it's punctuated (pun intended) with randomly placed upper case letters and words.

 

My favorite and the single item that tells me Jeffrey Jeff knows what he's talking about is the use of the "Or nor", at the same time he is saying the Colts problems could be one of the following items he lists and the Colts problems are all of the items he lists. That is a level of genius rarely seen on this or any forum. In the English language that ranks right up there with referring to yourself in the 4th person.

 

Just simply thank you.

[Superman]

Dear God...

 

[Coffeedrinker]

"that ranks right up there with referring to yourself in the 4th person."

 

 

 

I did not know that was possible

 

 

Yeah, I need an example.

Well, the "or Nor" not really possible either.

 

But referring to yourself in the 4th person is just referring to yourself in the 3rd person and 1st person in the same sentence.

 

Coffeedrinker does not like it when you question his command of the English language.

 

It especially works in this situation because coffeedrinker is both me and not me.

[SteelCityColt]

Well, the "or Nor" not really possible either.

 

But referring to yourself in the 4th person is just referring to yourself in the 3rd person and 1st person in the same sentence.

 

Coffeedrinker does not like it when you question his command of the English language.

So basically MPD minimum?

[Superman]

Well, the "or Nor" not really possible either.

 

But referring to yourself in the 4th person is just referring to yourself in the 3rd person and 1st person in the same sentence.

 

Coffeedrinker does not like it when you question his command of the English language.

 

It especially works in this situation because coffeedrinker is both me and not me.

 

Ah.

 

I think the "Or nor" is far, far worse than that.

[Coffeedrinker]

So basically MPD minimum?

MPD?  Multiple Personality Disorder?

[Coffeedrinker]

Ah.

 

I think the "Or nor" is far, far worse than that.

Far worse or far more brilliant?

[Superman]

Far worse or far more brilliant?

 

Yes.

[SteelCityColt]

MPD?  Multiple Personality Disorder?

 

Yeah, sorry I didn't really want to to take this into a serious direction but I guess you'd pretty much have to suffer from it to refer to yourself in such a way?

[jvan1973]

Well, the "or Nor" not really possible either.

But referring to yourself in the 4th person is just referring to yourself in the 3rd person and 1st person in the same sentence.

Coffeedrinker does not like it when you question his command of the English language.

It especially works in this situation because coffeedrinker is both me and not me.

There is another poster on this board that does that very thing on the regular.

[jvan1973]

Dear God...

Thanks for that

[corgi]

COLTS REALLY STUNK IT UP AGAINST SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 that PRE SESON GAME JUST REALLY PUT THE COLTS INTO THEIR PLACE ND PERSPECTIVE,,,,,,,,,,,,,Shows how far away we really are from being an elite top five team,,,,,,,,,,,,Saints kicked our Azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz in every phase/game,,,,,,,,,,,,How can we compete w/ the elite teams we hardly can we do not have the D or OLINE or the Running game ,,,,,,,,,Soooooooo We'll get to the play-offs but will stutter when facing a team like NE...............Or KC again we are not going to be able to miraculously pull a come back like that again against KC or anyone.......We didn't do enough in FA or the draft Or nor do we have the personal players to be that elite top team Unfortunitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I need a decoder ring, a translator, and a third grade english teacher.

[masterlock]

The only way it can work with the Colts is to use the pass to setup the run, and that's assuming more of the same mediocre-to-poor run blocking. Lining up with a full-back is a wasted play in the making, 'cause defenses just load up the box and stuff it for a loss 9 times out of 10.

[SteelCityColt]

I need a decoder ring, a translator, and a third grade english teacher.

And bring me the machine that goes ping..

[Superman]

The only way it can work with the Colts is to use the pass to setup the run, and that's assuming more of the same mediocre-to-poor run blocking. Lining up with a full-back is a wasted play in the making, 'cause defenses just load up the box and stuff it for a loss 9 times out of 10.

 

Put a FB on the field, and then go play action. 

[Bird dog]

Put a FB on the field, and then go play action.

Why not fix the real problem ?

[Superman]

Why not fix the real problem ?

How do you mean?

[SteelCityColt]

Why not fix the real problem ?

I'm guessing you mean the O line but as Supes pointed out, bad line or not P/A has been very effective so why not use it more. Might even ease some pressure buying a split second of hesitation.

[Bird dog]

Yes play action can work, but it's just a band-aid for r questionable offensive line! Why not try and fix it now? After all it's still pre season !

[SteelCityColt]

Yes play action can work, but it's just a band-aid for r questionable offensive line! Why not try and fix it now? After all it's still pre season !

Because it's not all that easy to "fix" the Oline. The FO has been trying for 3 seasons! Compared changing the balance of the playbook to run more P/A is a lot easier.

[JoKeR]

IMO, scheme your protection. Move the pocket. Run a bootleg and let Luck throw on the run. 

 

My whole point is that I think play action makes these things easier to fix. It slows the pass rush. It creates hesitation by the defense overall. It gets Luck on the move, where he's very good. In many ways, play action stresses a defense.

Yeah bootleg PA works decently because of a Luck, I was thinking about of the more standard way of doing PA and how some DE and OLB go after the QB and hardly defend against the run. With a turn stile OL, PA can be a offenses worst enemy. Hopefully the Colts will be better than that.

[Superman]

Yes play action can work, but it's just a band-aid for r questionable offensive line! Why not try and fix it now? After all it's still pre season !

 

I'm not sure why you think play action is meant to be a band-aid for a questionable offensive line. It's not...

[Superman]

Yeah bootleg PA works decently because of a Luck, I was thinking about of the more standard way of doing PA and how some DE and OLB go after the QB and hardly defend against the run. With a turn stile OL, PA can be a offenses worst enemy. Hopefully the Colts will be better than that.

 

Some long developing plays with elaborate play action can leave your QB susceptible to blind side hits. But I don't think most play action is meant to be that drastic.

 

And if you get the defense ignoring your play action, that gives you license for delayed handoffs, which I think our offense does well.

[Jeffrey Jeff]

calm down, you are hysterical.

When Colts have way less concerns then I'll calm down

[Jeffrey Jeff]

I don't know about everyone else but I personally think it adds validity to a view point when a person uses ,,,,,,,,,,,,, and .............. and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all in the same sentence.  Then it's punctuated (pun intended) with randomly placed upper case letters and words.

 

My favorite and the single item that tells me Jeffrey Jeff knows what he's talking about is the use of the "Or nor", at the same time he is saying the Colts problems could be one of the following items he lists and the Colts problems are all of the items he lists. That is a level of genius rarely seen on this or any forum. In the English language that ranks right up there with referring to yourself in the 4th person.

If u want an Emglish perfect paper join A FREE LANCE WRITTING CLASS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,And the concerns I have are blatently valid Lets all stop hiding our heads in the sand like an ostrage and look at reality w/ the Colts and their many problems