Emmanuel Sanders is so much better than Eric Decker

[Shane Bond]

Behind this Pats Oline and not one receiver that can stretch the field? yes. If Brady and Peyton flip flopped teams their performance would be the same.

No it wont be.

 

Peyton will make it work with Amendola, Gronkowski, Lafell, Robson and Edelman.

[sweetsurrender]

Which part of my line implied that?.

 

Decker is a not as good as a receiver as Sanders is. 

Are you serious? Decker is just as good. But again they are completely different players. Sanders gets more yards, Decker gets more TDs. One is speedy and small, the other is big and physical. Seems silly to even compare them. Julius Thomas is filling in more of Decker's role and doing a fine job. He has been their best receiver this season.

[amfootball]

No it wont be.

 

Peyton will make it work with Amendola, Gronkowski, Lafell, Robson and Edelman.

Um, Brady is making work with a 3-2 record. One win less than Denver who has the better overall team, by a lot, compared to the Pats.

[Shane Bond]

Are you serious? Decker is just as good. But again they are completely different players. Sanders gets more yards, Decker gets more TDs. One is speedy and small, the other is big and physical. Seems silly to even compare them. Julius Thomas is filling in more of Decker's role and doing a fine job. He has been their best receiver this season.

And Sanders makes more clutch plays and Decker doesn't.

And Decker drops a lot and Sanders doesn't.

[Shane Bond]

Um, Brady is making work with a 3-2 record. One win less than Denver who has the better overall team, by a lot, compared to the Pats.

Now we are talking "TEAM".

[amfootball]

Now we are talking "TEAM".

We never weren't.

[sweetsurrender]

And Sanders makes more clutch plays and Decker doesn't.

And Decker drops a lot and Sanders doesn't.

Scoring TDs is more clutch/critical to a team than not scoring TDs. That is pretty elementary.

[Shane Bond]

Scoring TDs is more clutch/critical to a team than not scoring TDs. That is pretty elementary.

Elementary is knowing where the red zone is. Its the last 20 yards.

 

The starting point is your own 20 yards line, we have to matriculate down 60 yards before we get to red zone. To do that, you need skills players who can catch the ball to matriculate 60 yards. Once we do that, we get to red zone.

 

You dont hop in a helicopter to red zone.

[sweetsurrender]

Elementary is knowing where the red zone is. Its the last 20 yards.

 

The starting point is your own 20 yards line, we have to matriculate down 60 yards before we get to red zone. To do that, you need skills players who can catch the ball to matriculate 60 yards. Once we do that, we get to red zone.

lol. You act like Decker never caught passes between the 20s. He did. A lot of them. But he also found the end zone too which Sanders has yet to do. 

[jvan1973]

Elementary is knowing where the red zone is. Its the last 20 yards.

The starting point is your own 20 yards line, we have to matriculate down 60 yards before we get to red zone. To do that, you need skills players who can catch the ball to matriculate 60 yards. Once we do that, we get to red zone.

You dont hop in a helicopter to red zone.

Hank Straham, is that you?

[Shane Bond]

lol. You act like Decker never caught passes between the 20s. He did. A lot of them. But he also found the end zone too which Sanders has yet to do. 

Act?. Read what i type.

 

Decker drops a lot of balls. He always look for flags when he cant go and make a catch. He has a nickname "butterfinger". There is a reason, he was let go by Elway.

 

I have mentioned several times, Peyton has other players to take care of red zone. His TDs ratio has not dropped.

[Shane Bond]

Hank Straham, is that you?

How did you guess?.

[sweetsurrender]

Act?. Read what i type.

 

Decker drops a lot of balls. He always look for flags when he cant go and make a catch. He has a nickname "butterfinger". There is a reason, he was let go by Elway.

 

I have mentioned several times, Peyton has other players to take care of red zone. His TDs ratio has not dropped.

Elway didn't sign Decker because of what the market was going to demand he get paid (top dollar) because of his production with Denver.

 

Having some drops does not make Sanders better than Decker. Unless you also believe Sanders is better than Calvin Johnson too who drops his fair share of balls.

 

This whole debate is silly. I am done.

[Shane Bond]

Elway didn't sign Decker because of what the market was going to demand he get paid (top dollar) because of his production with Denver.

 

Having some drops does not make Sanders better than Decker. Unless you also believe Sanders is better than Calvin Johnson too who drops his fair share of balls.

 

This whole debate is silly. I am done.

You should watch the videos of Sanders's play this 4 games and the type of plays he is making and ask yourself if Decker would make the same.

 

Calling it silly without any constructive base doesnt make sense.

[jvan1973]

How did you guess?.

The use of the word matriculate in relation to football... lol

[dgambill]

These guys are two COMPLETELY different style receivers. Both are very good. Both are much better with Peyton throwing them the ball. Whats amazing is how Peyton integrates new players into his offense. He can turn talented players into stars basically....and replace the production by moving the ball around and taking what players do well and maximize their potential.

 

Not to start anything..because Peyton does have top talent around him but it isn't like NE hasn't tried putting players around Tom. It could be the offense or the connections but they did add two rookies last year that haven't worked out. They did add a productive Amendola that hasn't worked out. They did add Ochocinco who while he was on the decline he clearly was talented still even when he arrived there.....they added Brandon Lloyd who we've seen make multiple plays in SF this year and was very talented. Now...none of those guys are DT or Sanders or Decker but Peyton has done a good job elavating these guys games. When Marvin left he elavated Pierre Garcon and when we lost Stokely he elivated Collie and we had Dilger and Pollard he elevated Clark when he came in and then Tamme. Not saying those guys didn't have inherit talent but nobody would say Garcon, Collie, Clark would be pro bowl caliber players until after Peyton worked with them. I know Tom made Givens, Branch, Welker, and Brown similarly so I know he has it in him..just wondering why lately he hasn't turned someone into that household name like he has in the past. Personally I think its the two systems being used...so going back to this topic I think its irrelevant the topic....either player would be producing equally as well in Peytons system...and if you get open..he will get you the ball.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I think it is pretty obvious that the Cardinals have tremendous respect for Sanders role in the the Bronco offense since they put their best corner, Patrick Peterson, on him.  Peterson usually covers the opponent's #1 threat to try and take it out of the game.

[Shane Bond]

These guys are two COMPLETELY different style receivers. Both are very good. Both are much better with Peyton throwing them the ball. Whats amazing is how Peyton integrates new players into his offense. He can turn talented players into stars basically....and replace the production by moving the ball around and taking what players do well and maximize their potential.

Not to start anything..because Peyton does have top talent around him but it isn't like NE hasn't tried putting players around Tom. It could be the offense or the connections but they did add two rookies last year that haven't worked out. They did add a productive Amendola that hasn't worked out. They did add Ochocinco who while he was on the decline he clearly was talented still even when he arrived there.....they added Brandon Lloyd who we've seen make multiple plays in SF this year and was very talented. Now...none of those guys are DT or Sanders or Decker but Peyton has done a good job elavating these guys games. When Marvin left he elavated Pierre Garcon and when we lost Stokely he elivated Collie and we had Dilger and Pollard he elevated Clark when he came in and then Tamme. Not saying those guys didn't have inherit talent but nobody would say Garcon, Collie, Clark would be pro bowl caliber players until after Peyton worked with them. I know Tom made Givens, Branch, Welker, and Brown similarly so I know he has it in him..just wondering why lately he hasn't turned someone into that household name like he has in the past. Personally I think its the two systems being used...so going back to this topic I think its irrelevant the topic....either player would be producing equally as well in Peytons system...and if you get open..he will get you the ball.

.

Been saying it for a while.

[amfootball]

These guys are two COMPLETELY different style receivers. Both are very good. Both are much better with Peyton throwing them the ball. Whats amazing is how Peyton integrates new players into his offense. He can turn talented players into stars basically....and replace the production by moving the ball around and taking what players do well and maximize their potential.

 

Not to start anything..because Peyton does have top talent around him but it isn't like NE hasn't tried putting players around Tom. It could be the offense or the connections but they did add two rookies last year that haven't worked out. They did add a productive Amendola that hasn't worked out. They did add Ochocinco who while he was on the decline he clearly was talented still even when he arrived there.....they added Brandon Lloyd who we've seen make multiple plays in SF this year and was very talented. Now...none of those guys are DT or Sanders or Decker but Peyton has done a good job elavating these guys games. When Marvin left he elavated Pierre Garcon and when we lost Stokely he elivated Collie and we had Dilger and Pollard he elevated Clark when he came in and then Tamme. Not saying those guys didn't have inherit talent but nobody would say Garcon, Collie, Clark would be pro bowl caliber players until after Peyton worked with them. I know Tom made Givens, Branch, Welker, and Brown similarly so I know he has it in him..just wondering why lately he hasn't turned someone into that household name like he has in the past. Personally I think its the two systems being used...so going back to this topic I think its irrelevant the topic....either player would be producing equally as well in Peytons system...and if you get open..he will get you the ball.

I think the biggest difference is that Tom Moore's Indy offense is one of the simplest offenses ever constructed and is easy for players to pick up, whereas the NE offense under Bill is one of the most complex as it is based off reading coverage and adjusting routes accordingly and being on the same page with the QB. It is kind of a catch 22 as while I have wished over the years that Bill would make it more simpler to take advantage of the raw physical talent of the receivers that have come through NE, it is the complexity that also make it so effective and has led to so many rings and winning seasons. As we all know, the Indy offense is easy to defend if the team has the right personnel. We have seen it over and over. Whether it was the '03 and '04 Pats or the Chargers or the Steelers or more recently the Seahawks. So I guess you accept the good with the bad but I also think some of it is Bill just not drafting quality talent at the WR position either. The last two WRs the Pats developed were Branch and Givens back in 2002. Yet they have had several TEs i.e. Graham, Watson, Hernandez, Gronk. So some of it is on Bill as well.

[Dr. Guildo]

I'm not sure what is up but every time I see a Jets game Decker seems to be invisible or injured. The Broncos games I have seen Sanders step up and make some pretty awesome plays so I have to give Sanders the nod as the better player.

[dgambill]

I think the biggest difference is that Tom Moore's Indy offense is one of the simplest offenses ever constructed and is easy for players to pick up, whereas the NE offense under Bill is one of the most complex as it is based off reading coverage and adjusting routes accordingly and being on the same page with the QB. It is kind of a catch 22 as while I have wished over the years that Bill would make it more simpler to take advantage of the raw physical talent of the receivers that have come through NE, it is the complexity that also make it so effective and has led to so many rings and winning seasons. As we all know, the Indy offense is easy to defend if the team has the right personnel. We have seen it over and over. Whether it was the '03 and '04 Pats or the Chargers or the Steelers or more recently the Seahawks. So I guess you accept the good with the bad but I also think some of it is Bill just not drafting quality talent at the WR position either. The last two WRs the Pats developed were Branch and Givens back in 2002. Yet they have had several TEs i.e. Graham, Watson, Hernandez, Gronk. So some of it is on Bill as well.

I agree NE has a very intense system....but while the basic system Peyton runs they also do a lot of route changes when defenses are in varying schemes. It seems simple but because it is...it is easy for receivers to adjust routes and Peyton to adjust plays that allow for something more complex than the eye sees. The issue would be the same with NE. If you get physical with receivers at LOS and don't let them get free releases and disrupt the timing...force Peyton or Tom to hold the ball and get a pass rush...well there you go...both are equally flawed it would seem. It isn't the system...its break down in execution...from receivers getting off coverage and OL giving adequate protection. I wasn't trying to stir controversy because clearly Tom doesn't have the same caliber receivers through his career but was more noting that players coming in don't always translate or pick up the system with Tom for whatever reason. Even Randy mostly just ran deep 9 routes and post corners etc so just wondering if that added to the issue Tom is seeing.

[chad72]

I agree NE has a very intense system....but while the basic system Peyton runs they also do a lot of route changes when defenses are in varying schemes. It seems simple but because it is...it is easy for receivers to adjust routes and Peyton to adjust plays that allow for something more complex than the eye sees. The issue would be the same with NE. If you get physical with receivers at LOS and don't let them get free releases and disrupt the timing...force Peyton or Tom to hold the ball and get a pass rush...well there you go...both are equally flawed it would seem. It isn't the system...its break down in execution...from receivers getting off coverage and OL giving adequate protection. I wasn't trying to stir controversy because clearly Tom doesn't have the same caliber receivers through his career but was more noting that players coming in don't always translate or pick up the system with Tom for whatever reason. Even Randy mostly just ran deep 9 routes and post corners etc so just wondering if that added to the issue Tom is seeing.

 

You have to factor in the fact that the touch on those slightly deeper balls is declining for Brady as well. Plus, Peyton makes it look simple. The Ds are by no means simple, so why is it that no matter what the D does, no matter what different looks the D gives, he manages to get his offense on the same page for the right play most of the time.

 

Fans (we know who they are) just have a hard time giving him credit for the fact that he has gotten his OL and WRs to be on the same page much like he did while he was at Indy with an incredible amount of hard work. It is just easy speak to say "it has to be a simple system wherever Peyton is and a complex one wherever Brady is". The truth is definitely somewhere in the middle.

[amfootball]

You have to factor in the fact that the touch on those slightly deeper balls is declining for Brady as well. Plus, Peyton makes it look simple. The Ds are by no means simple, so why is it that no matter what the D does, no matter what different looks the D gives, he manages to get his offense on the same page for the right play most of the time.

 

Fans (we know who they are) just have a hard time giving him credit for the fact that he has gotten his OL and WRs to be on the same page much like he did while he was at Indy with an incredible amount of hard work. It is just easy speak to say "it has to be a simple system wherever Peyton is and a complex one wherever Brady is". The truth is definitely somewhere in the middle.

Manning's throws are worse than Brady's these days. Lots of ducks yesterday. And he is able to get many of those players lined up and plays converted because his skill guys are volumes better than Brady, always have been with the exception of 2007 when Brady had Moss and Welker and broke all the passing/points records.

[chad72]

Manning's throws are worse than Brady's these days. Lots of ducks yesterday. And he is able to get many of those players lined up and plays converted because his skill guys are volumes better than Brady, always have been with the exception of 2007 when Brady had Moss and Welker and broke all the passing/points records.

 

He has always thrown ducks, ducks that have gone for TDs and completions throughout his life. I do however feel that he still does not have 100% control on his triceps muscle that what he thinks he delivers and what he delivers have a subtle difference but that is just my observation.

 

He is able to get those plays converted not just because of ability but because he has gone that over with them several times in practice, a fact that is often ignored. Talent is one thing, execution is another and execution is more often perfected by practice. I do think the Patriots' offensive coaches are better on the O-line front (at least till Scarnecchia retired) but not on the WR front, I feel. There have been too many times that Brady and his wide outs have not been on the same page and some of it does fall on Brady and some on the coaches as well. The biggest thing Brady has always had going is his arm that keeps his passes from getting intercepted, Peyton does not have that luxury, IMO.

[Shane Bond]

Manning's throws are worse than Brady's these days. Lots of ducks yesterday. And he is able to get many of those players lined up and plays converted because his skill guys are volumes better than Brady, always have been with the exception of 2007 when Brady had Moss and Welker and broke all the passing/points records.

You continue to have your homerism and after a point it turns into a comedy show. When Brady sucks, its the team. When Manning is great, its the team.

 

Dismissing what Manning is able to do at his age after 4 neck surgeries is downright insulting to him.

 

NE offense is not good at teaching and moulding players. There are so many good WRs who came and left. There is currently one ( Amendola ). Dont tell me he is bad. He is a great WR who shined under Sam Bradford. Give Amendola to Manning, he will make it work.

[amfootball]

You continue to have your homerism and after a point it turns into a comedy show. When Brady sucks, its the team. When Manning is great, its the team.

 

Dismissing what Manning is able to do at his age after 4 neck surgeries is downright insulting to him.

 

NE offense is not good at teaching and moulding players. There are so many good WRs who came and left. There is currently one ( Amendola ). Dont tell me he is bad. He is a great WR who shined under Sam Bradford. Give Amendola to Manning, he will make it work.

Um, I have said there is slight decline in Brady's game and there is in Manning as well. Yet both are still effective.

 

I don't feel like rehashing the whole receivers thing all over again but suffice to say this season has been more about the horrid Oline ranked dead last than the skill guys. Brady spread the ball well on Monday and had Tim Wright looking more like Hernandez as the line finally looked decent. If that holds, all the receivers will get theirs, no doubt just like last season. But I have my doubts with the line but am hopeful Bill can keep it stuck together somehow.

[sweetsurrender]

You continue to have your homerism and after a point it turns into a comedy show. When Brady sucks, its the team. When Manning is great, its the team.

 

Dismissing what Manning is able to do at his age after 4 neck surgeries is downright insulting to him.

 

NE offense is not good at teaching and moulding players. There are so many good WRs who came and left. There is currently one ( Amendola ). Dont tell me he is bad. He is a great WR who shined under Sam Bradford. Give Amendola to Manning, he will make it work.

Any NFL QB, including Manning would struggle on this Pats offense. Any football fan can see that except you apparently.

[Shane Bond]

Any NFL QB, including Manning would struggle on this Pats offense. Any football fan can see that except you apparently.

So Brady struggled against Cincy?. Pats scored 43 points. I dont think they changed their entire roster?. It's the same team from the first 4 games.

Try to come up with substance.

[sweetsurrender]

So Brady struggled against Cincy?. Pats scored 43 points. I dont think they changed their entire roster?. It's the same team from the first 4 games.

Try to come up with substance.

Do you even watch football? Did you not see the Pats Oline not look like a turnstile for  the first time all season. All Brady needs is a little time and 43 points. 

[Shane Bond]

Do you even watch football? Did you not see the Pats Oline not look like a turnstile for the first time all season. All Brady needs is a little time and 43 points.

Better than you do. And I also don't make cheap personal statements like you do. This is becoming a routine for you when your head has nothing to counter.

Brady was below par on several occasions during this season. There are several occasions he had a lot of time and he missed. Prior to Cincy game, he was 1-20 for over 20+ yards.

Focus on making constructive statements rather making childish comments.

[sweetsurrender]

Better than you do. And I also don't make cheap personal statements like you do. This is becoming a routine for you when your head has nothing to counter.

Brady was below par on several occasions during this season. There are several occasions he had a lot of time and he missed. Prior to Cincy game, he was 1-20 for over 20+ yards.

Focus on making constructive statements rather making childish comments.

You really are that guy, aren't you? 

[Shane Bond]

You really are that guy, aren't you? 

What guy?.

 

Take a break from posting. You appear to lose it.

[thedude]

Yep. More versatile. Faster. Runs better routes. SO.MUCH.BETTER

You're right. Decker is now showing that he is actually a second or third option as a receiver. Just a complimentary piece. Nothing special.

Sanders is a much more credible threat.

[amfootball]

You're right. Decker is now showing that he is actually a second or third option as a receiver. Just a complimentary piece. Nothing special.

Sanders is a much more credible threat.

Decker has been injured and not playing in NY who may have the worst duo of QBs in the league to boot.

[thedude]

Sanders is a big upgrade over Decker.

[sweetsurrender]

You're right. Decker is now showing that he is actually a second or third option as a receiver. Just a complimentary piece. Nothing special.

Sanders is a much more credible threat.

Same as Sanders was in Pitt. How about that.

[thedude]

Same as Sanders was in Pitt. How about that.

Obviously the Broncos don't agree with you. Results mean something.

[dgambill]

Sanders may have filled Deckers role on the depth chart but he is a completely different wideout...and right now seems to be used completely differently. Both were valuable to the team and there is no doubt that Sanders is playing at an extremely high level (even better than perhaps Decker was last year) but the main thing is this....find Manning a capable skilled receiver...one that is willing to work extra with him..and he will make the most of him. That is NOT debatable. He has had some great receivers but I think its impossible to not think that the hours and hours of extra work he puts into the offseason and otas and side throws that he has done through the years with all of them hasn't some how benefited those guys. I'm not here to say Peyton is the best or anything like that...his career speaks volumes for being a great qb. But there is no doubt in my mind and I'm sure a lot of those guys he has played with that he taught them a lot...got their careers off on the right track and helped them. The Pierre Garcons, Austin Collies, Eric Deckers, Julius Thomas, Dallas Clarks (I mean in like 2009 Clark was perhaps one of the best receivers in the league...not just TEs) Guys like Sanders and Brandon Stokely see dramatic increases in their stats when they come over to play with him. Thats not a mistake or just having great wrs....thats having/learning a great report with your recievers and making the most of their skills. Peyton has done that...not just with Marvin, Damarius, and Reggie but everyone that stepped on the field....even Blair White had some good games when guys went down with injuries...I mean come on...thats a practice squad guy if you ever have seen one. So the fact that Sanders looks so good comes as no surprise..and I think Decker would continue to look good too if he was here. I don't think one is necessarily better...just one is now playing with Peyton and the other with Geno...so it looks more clear than it is.

 

I will say Sanders gives them a little different element with his speed/elusiveness than Decker and they have used J Thomas more in the redzone to make up for Deckers size he had there last year...all in all it seems to have been a good decision. Less money and not much of a fall off in production if any.

[thedude]

Sanders may have filled Deckers role on the depth chart but he is a completely different wideout

Yes he is.  A much faster and more dangerous threat than Decker.  The Broncos have a better corps od WR's this year than they did last season.  It's not even arguable.

[Shane Bond]

Yes he is.  A much faster and more dangerous threat than Decker.  The Broncos have a better corps od WR's this year than they did last season.  It's not even arguable.

If Decker played instead of Sanders at the Seattle game, final score would have been 20-3.