Is anyone paying close attention to our offensive personnel packages lately?

[BlueShoe]

Just some observations and thoughts for discussion:

 

I believe our offense is so talented that it can play very well in 11 personnel and 12 personnel. Our talent fits both packages perfectly. We do not have a talented enough offensive line to play consistently well in 21 and 22 personnel.

 

Last year we tried to become a 21 and 22 personnel team, and although we had moments of success, we really did not have the correct talent to pull it off, especially over the long haul. Due to injuries and poor offensive line play, we didn't have enough talent for 11 or 12 personnel either, but later in the year we figured out that we played better from 11 and 12 personnel than we did in 21 and 22. We also saw Andrew's talents start to really flourish in 11 and 12 personnel.

 

In the 49ers game last year, we were killing them with 21 and 22 personnel, but there were not enough successful moments. There is no doubt in my mind that injuries last year have changed the way we view our offense in 2014. We should give Pep some credit for noticing this too, because our offense went very stale for about a month after Reggie went down. I took longer for Pep to make some changes than most of us wanted it too though.

 

Donald Brown and Ahmad Bradshaw are 21 and 22 personnel backs, which is why they both excelled. While it may seem like Richardson is a 21 personnel back (because of his known physical toughness), he actually fits much better in an 11 and 12 personnel attack. All of this is because of how defenses have to play each package. Trent gets much better one-on-one matchups out of 11 and 12 personnel packages.

 

I believe that Pep Hamilton has decided to put the 21 and 22 personnel packages mostly on the shelf for just a bit. We will still use them, but I do not believe we will see them nearly as much in the 2014 regular season. I see it this way because it is my interpretation of some verbiage that Pep and the players have used this off-season, along with what I have seen in the preseason so far.

 

I believe we will use a high percentage mixture of 11 personnel and 12 personnel in 2014, because it is the best use of our talent. That said; Chuck and Pep will probably never give up on their desire of establishing an effective 21 and 22 personnel running game. It is their belief that strong 21 and 22 personnel is what it takes to advance deep into the payoffs.

 

So long story short, look for us to line up with a lot of 3 receiver, 1 tight end, and 1 back sets along with a good mixture of 2 receivers, 2 tight ends, and 1 back sets. We will actually combine these packages when we line Coby up out wide. This is what I expect us to do for most of the regular season. We will mix in some power running during the regular season; however, I believe we will switch into a very high percentage of 21 and 22 personnel package as soon as the playoffs begin.

 

So for all of the people who hated Arians offense (while we likely won't see as many 4 wide receiver sets) welcome to version 2.1, because it appears that Pep is opening things up.

[Gavin]

Good info and well said, I agree, Also I'd like to add if I could that the times we do go into 21 personnel we should be using that to get Havili the ball as well instead of using him as a battering ram every time he is in, 21 targets in 13 games played last year is just ridiculous. http://www.footballboost.com/OffensiveFormations.html

 

 

To further add onto the description of the personnel packages described by BlueShoe the above link gives you illustrations of most offensive personnel packages

[BlueShoe]

Good info and well said, I agree, Also I'd like to add if I could that the times we do go into 21 personnel we should be using that to get Havili the ball as well instead of using him as a battering ram every time he is in, 21 targets in 13 games played last year is just ridiculous.

 

When we did get creative by targeting Havili, we had success. The big play that comes to mind is the touchdown against Denver. We also used some good misdirection in that game to get DHB an easy touchdown.

[Gavin]

When we did get creative by targeting Havili, we had success. The big play that comes to mind is the touchdown against Denver. We also used some good misdirection in that game to get DHB an easy touchdown.

Its like either Pep blatantly ignores certain things offensively and sticks to rigid play calls or does not know the strengths and weaknesses of his personnel at times, I don't believe either is the case....well I believe he knows his personnel anyway , He is a coach in the nfl of course but to not use Luck on roll outs hardly ever (for example) is mind boggling to me

[BleedBlu8792]

Its like either Pep blatantly ignores certain things offensively and sticks to rigid play calls or does not know the strengths and weaknesses of his personnel at times, I don't believe either is the case, He is a coach in the nfl of course but to not use Luck on roll outs hardly ever (for example) is mind boggling to me

 

I know the guy was a complete numbnuts at times, but I would like to have seen what Gary Kubiak could have done with Luck AND our running game. Kubiak would have had wood with Luck as his QB with his offensive schemes.

[BlueShoe]

Its like either Pep blatantly ignores certain things offensively and sticks to rigid play calls or does not know the strengths and weaknesses of his personnel at times, I don't believe either is the case....well I believe he knows his personnel anyway , He is a coach in the nfl of course but to not use Luck on roll outs hardly ever (for example) is mind boggling to me

 

I believe all of that is about to drastically change.

 

This off-season, Pep was using words like "no coast offense" and then Allen said he and Coby would be on the field a lot together. I believe we are finally going to start using Coby in a way he can excel. Arians used Coby out wide a few times (it was working), and I expect to see us do that with him again this year. I also believe we will use some 4 wide sets, only with the wrinkle of Richardson lined up wide. We actually did this once against the Giants. It shocked me for a minute and really got me thinking about some things.

 

We want to go hurry up, and with the players we have we can effectively change into 3 different personnel packages without substituting. We can go 11 personnel, hurry up to 12 personnel, and then hurry up into 4 or 5 wide. If I am correct then it will be fun to watch.

 

This has the potential to be a very explosive offense that will give defenses fits trying to find the right pieces to stop it.

[Gavin]

I know the guy was a complete numbnuts at times, but I would like to have seen what Gary Kubiak could have done with Luck AND our running game. Kubiak would have had wood with Luck as his QB with his offensive schemes.

He is 1 of the coaches I was wanting when available, But I think everything is correctible, Its a matter of from the inside (O Line schemes) out (receiver route concepts) with better playcalling along with it

[crazycolt1]

I know the guy was a complete numbnuts at times, but I would like to have seen what Gary Kubiak could have done with Luck AND our running game. Kubiak would have had wood with Luck as his QB with his offensive schemes.

Well even Kubiak lost his job over his offense not producing. His lack of offensive linemen stopped his QB and his run game. So Pep is a numbnut because he don't have a great offensive line to hold the plays he would like to call?

[BleedBlu8792]

Well even Kubiak lost his job over his offense not producing. His lack of offensive linemen stopped his QB and his run game. So Pep is a numbnut because he don't have a great offensive line to hold the plays he would like to call?

 

I didn't know I had someone else speaking for me and trying to put words in my mouth - or yet - post. My post had ZERO to do with Pep. Quit being a nancy and looking for everything negative in someone's post to bicker about. You know what they say about people who "assume", which is what you were trying to do with my post, to which you were incorrect. Pep is fine where he is at. Me stating that I would like to see what Luck would have looked like in Kubiak's scheme is nothing more than that. Again, my post had nothing to do with Pep or bashing Pep... Good Lord...

[chad72]

There are situations where 21 and 22 personnel packages will come in handy, goal line, short yardage and to close out games with a lead, IMO. I'd still go with the Arians school of thought that if the other team has not shown an ability to stop your pass and you have the lead, there are passes (some safer than the others) that you can use to close out the game.

 

However, the majority should be 11 and 12 personnel packages. 2 WRs/2TEs/1 RB or 3 WRs/1 TE/1 RB should be the norm most of the time, IMO. I firmly believe it will help TRich out.

[Jason_]

Well even Kubiak lost his job over his offense not producing. His lack of offensive linemen stopped his QB and his run game. So Pep is a numbnut because he don't have a great offensive line to hold the plays he would like to call?

 

No, according to the post you quoted, Kubiak would be the numbnuts.

[Mameluc]

I think we are ditching the FB formations, but i dont think we are going to go 3 WR 1 TE. I think the team believes that Having fleener and Allen on the field is the way to go, so i dont think we are gonna see tons of 3 WR since that would mean benching one(Fleener). I do think we will pass it much more and we will see 3 Wr sets but speciallyu after that Allen interview where he said that the offense was so diff last year and that he and fleener are never leaving the field on this offense

[BlueShoe]

I think we are ditching the FB formations, but i dont think we are going to go 3 WR 1 TE. I think the team believes that Having fleener and Allen on the field is the way to go, so i dont think we are gonna see tons of 3 WR since that would mean benching one(Fleener). I do think we will pass it much more and we will see 3 Wr sets but speciallyu after that Allen interview where he said that the offense was so diff last year and that he and fleener are never leaving the field on this offense

 

That is because we will line Fleener up as a WR in some 11 personnel packages.

 

Fleener is the key that gives us personnel flexibility all while having the same players on the field. We can play 11 and 12 personnel with Fleener, Allen, Wayne, TY, and Richardson. We also have the ability to go 4 and 5 wide with the same players.

 

Which means we can basically catch a defense in a particular set and run hurry up with favorable matchups. I pointed this out earlier, but maybe you did not read it.

[The Fish]

That's going to be a strength of the squad, being able to go heavy and go wide at any point. 

I'm really looking forward to seeing an empty back field from time to time. Reggie, TY, Hicks, FLEENOR and Allen. Who are you covering first?

[Superman]

That is because we will line Fleener up as a WR in some 11 personnel packages.

 

Fleener is the key that gives us personnel flexibility all while having the same players on the field. We can play 11 and 12 personnel with Fleener, Allen, Wayne, TY, and Richardson. We also have the ability to go 4 and 5 wide with the same players.

 

Which means we can basically catch a defense in a particular set and run hurry up with favorable matchups. I pointed this out earlier, but maybe you did not read it.

 

That's still 12 personnel, though. Just a different formation. And in the Giants game, aside from some situational substitutions, we were mostly in 12 personnel. Even empty backfield, we kept the 12 package out there. I don't know if that's because Wayne and Hilton were out, so it was just a good opportunity to roll with that package for most of the time, or if that says something about the way we're going to play this season. But I like it. I think it's our best package, 

 

The Saints game should give us more insight, as they'll actually install a gameplan and hopefully get 30-40 plays out of the first unit. I expect it to mostly be 12 and 11 personnel, just as it has been, with some situational 21 and 22 packages. 

[Mameluc]

That is because we will line Fleener up as a WR in some 11 personnel packages.

 

Fleener is the key that gives us personnel flexibility all while having the same players on the field. We can play 11 and 12 personnel with Fleener, Allen, Wayne, TY, and Richardson. We also have the ability to go 4 and 5 wide with the same players.

 

Which means we can basically catch a defense in a particular set and run hurry up with favorable matchups. I pointed this out earlier, but maybe you did not read it.

i probably missed it when people started talking about the 3 WR 1 Te 1 rb formations

[SilentHill]

I'm on cloud nine when it comes to the offense, Pep will get it straight this year, they didn't go out and sign Nicks just so they could run 2 WR sets.

[crazycolt1]

I didn't know I had someone else speaking for me and trying to put words in my mouth - or yet - post. My post had ZERO to do with Pep. Quit being a nancy and looking for everything negative in someone's post to bicker about. You know what they say about people who "assume", which is what you were trying to do with my post, to which you were incorrect. Pep is fine where he is at. Me stating that I would like to see what Luck would have looked like in Kubiak's scheme is nothing more than that. Again, my post had nothing to do with Pep or bashing Pep...

In case you missed the content of the thread it is about the Colts and their offensive personnel packages. You are the one who brought up Pep being what you called numbnuts. Exactly what are we suppose to assume? You assumed that Pep was a numbnut because of what?

[crazycolt1]

No, according to the post you quoted, Kubiak would be the numbnuts.

I never called Kubiak anything. My comment was he lost his job because of his lack of offensive linemen not getting his running game going and the fact that the QB was not getting time to do his job. The numbnut comment was made by someone else.

[Jason_]

I never called Kubiak anything. My comment was he lost his job because of his lack of offensive linemen not getting his running game going and the fact that the QB was not getting time to do his job. The numbnut comment was made by someone else.

I realize that. That's why I said the post you quoted. I was correcting you....you thought that person was calling pep a numb nuts but he wasnt, he was referring to kubiak.

[crazycolt1]

I realize that. That's why I said the post you quoted. I was correcting you....you thought that person was calling pep a numb nuts but he wasnt, he was referring to kubiak.

His response was to a comment made about Pep. If you go back and read the original comment he was not specific in who he was referring to. If he was talking about Kubiak then I stand corrected. The numbnut and Kubiak was in two different parts of the comment. After reading it again it still looks like a response to Gavin about Pep. Maybe if the sentence were worded different I would have picked up on that. Sorry bout the misread.

[ColtsLegacy]

I really don't want to see Fleener forcing Nicks to ride the bench too often because I think Nicks is a significantly better target in the passing game.

[ColtsLegacy]

His response was to a comment made about Pep. If you go back and read the original comment he was not specific in who he was referring to. If he was talking about Kubiak then I stand corrected. The numbnut and Kubiak was in two different parts of the comment. After reading it again it still looks like a response to Gavin about Pep. Maybe if the sentence were worded different I would have picked up on that. Sorry bout the misread.

He was clearly talking about Kubiak and he worded it just fine.

[BleedBlu8792]

In case you missed the content of the thread it is about the Colts and their offensive personnel packages. You are the one who brought up Pep being what you called numbnuts. Exactly what are we suppose to assume? You assumed that Pep was a numbnut because of what?

I didn't call Pep ANYTHING, YOU reworded my post to fit what you "assumed" I was saying. Reread my original post, Pep wasn't brought up once. The context that I called KUBIAK a numbnut in, you were also incorrect with. I made my point very clearly in my last post as to what I was referring to with Kubiak and Luck. You obviously missed it with the perception of thinking I was "Pep bashing".

[crazycolt1]

I didn't call Pep ANYTHING, YOU reworded my post to fit what you "assumed" I was saying. Reread my original post, Pep wasn't brought up once. The context that I called KUBIAK a numbnut in, you were also incorrect with. I made my point very clearly in my last post as to what I was referring to with Kubiak and Luck. You obviously missed it with the perception of thinking I was "Pep bashing".

Gavens comment was about Pep. Your first words were I know the guy was a complete numnuts at times and then you went on to Kubiak. If I misread your comment I stand corrected. The structure of the sentence was out of order so my bad,.

[BlueShoe]

That's still 12 personnel, though. Just a different formation. And in the Giants game, aside from some situational substitutions, we were mostly in 12 personnel. Even empty backfield, we kept the 12 package out there. I don't know if that's because Wayne and Hilton were out, so it was just a good opportunity to roll with that package for most of the time, or if that says something about the way we're going to play this season. But I like it. I think it's our best package, 

 

The Saints game should give us more insight, as they'll actually install a gameplan and hopefully get 30-40 plays out of the first unit. I expect it to mostly be 12 and 11 personnel, just as it has been, with some situational 21 and 22 packages. 

 

Technically yes, but that is only because Fleener is listed as a TE. That said, Fleener is a Hybrid TE. When we line him up wide, defenses will be forced to play big nickel and this should give Trent some running room in open space. 

 

In 2004 when Peyton threw 49 touchdowns, we listed Stokely as a TE, and even introduced him as a TE so technically we were running 12 personnel, but we were really playing 11 personnel. 

 

Fleener gives us the flexibility to run different personnel packages without substituting. 

[BleedBlu8792]

Gavens comment was about Pep. Your first words were I know the guy was a complete numnuts at times and then you went on to Kubiak. If I misread your comment I stand corrected. The structure of the sentence was out of order so my bad,.

 

All good...

[Gavin]

Technically yes, but that is only because Fleener is listed as a TE. That said, Fleener is a Hybrid TE. When we line him up wide, defenses will be forced to play big nickel and this should give Trent some running room in open space. 

 

In 2004 when Peyton threw 49 touchdowns, we listed Stokely as a TE, and even introduced him as a TE so technically we were running 12 personnel, but we were really playing 11 personnel. 

 

Fleener gives us the flexibility to run different personnel packages without substituting. 

I still think Dwayne Allen gives the team much more versatility then Fleener, Allen can do all of what you listed and block

[BlueShoe]

I still think Dwayne Allen gives the team much more versatility then Fleener, Allen can do all of what you listed and block

 

They both have hybrid skill-sets. Fleener is a TE/WR while Allen is a TE/FB.

 

This gives us the ability to keep them both on the field at all times, if we want to.

 

What makes Fleener dangerous is lining him up outside. Defenses will have a very hard time finding a player who can out jump him or stop him on fade routes.

[CroatianColtsFan21]

Technically yes, but that is only because Fleener is listed as a TE. That said, Fleener is a Hybrid TE. When we line him up wide, defenses will be forced to play big nickel and this should give Trent some running room in open space.

In 2004 when Peyton threw 49 touchdowns, we listed Stokely as a TE, and even introduced him as a TE so technically we were running 12 personnel, but we were really playing 11 personnel.

Fleener gives us the flexibility to run different personnel packages without substituting.

Fleenor is not a hybrid te, he's barely a te, he should be listed just as a "receiver"

Allen on the other hand is a beast, just won't get too many targets this season if wayne, hilton and nicks stay healthy..

[throwing BBZ]

I still think Dwayne Allen gives the team much more versatility then Fleener, Allen can do all of what you listed and block

 

 Allen had one great block and several he got manhandled on last game.  YOU over rate him at this time.

 Luck will probably get him killed again anyway with those high, late, in traffic throws of his.

[throwing BBZ]

Just some observations and thoughts for discussion:

 

I believe our offense is so talented that it can play very well in 11 personnel and 12 personnel. Our talent fits both packages perfectly. We do not have a talented enough offensive line to play consistently well in 21 and 22 personnel.

 

Last year we tried to become a 21 and 22 personnel team, and although we had moments of success, we really did not have the correct talent to pull it off, especially over the long haul. Due to injuries and poor offensive line play, we didn't have enough talent for 11 or 12 personnel either, but later in the year we figured out that we played better from 11 and 12 personnel than we did in 21 and 22. We also saw Andrew's talents start to really flourish in 11 and 12 personnel.

 

In the 49ers game last year, we were killing them with 21 and 22 personnel, but there were not enough successful moments. There is no doubt in my mind that injuries last year have changed the way we view our offense in 2014. We should give Pep some credit for noticing this too, because our offense went very stale for about a month after Reggie went down. I took longer for Pep to make some changes than most of us wanted it too though.

 

Donald Brown and Ahmad Bradshaw are 21 and 22 personnel backs, which is why they both excelled. While it may seem like Richardson is a 21 personnel back (because of his known physical toughness), he actually fits much better in an 11 and 12 personnel attack. All of this is because of how defenses have to play each package. Trent gets much better one-on-one matchups out of 11 and 12 personnel packages.

 

I believe that Pep Hamilton has decided to put the 21 and 22 personnel packages mostly on the shelf for just a bit. We will still use them, but I do not believe we will see them nearly as much in the 2014 regular season. I see it this way because it is my interpretation of some verbiage that Pep and the players have used this off-season, along with what I have seen in the preseason so far.

 

I believe we will use a high percentage mixture of 11 personnel and 12 personnel in 2014, because it is the best use of our talent. That said; Chuck and Pep will probably never give up on their desire of establishing an effective 21 and 22 personnel running game. It is their belief that strong 21 and 22 personnel is what it takes to advance deep into the payoffs.

 

So long story short, look for us to line up with a lot of 3 receiver, 1 tight end, and 1 back sets along with a good mixture of 2 receivers, 2 tight ends, and 1 back sets. We will actually combine these packages when we line Coby up out wide. This is what I expect us to do for most of the regular season. We will mix in some power running during the regular season; however, I believe we will switch into a very high percentage of 21 and 22 personnel package as soon as the playoffs begin.

 

So for all of the people who hated Arians offense (while we likely won't see as many 4 wide receiver sets) welcome to version 2.1, because it appears that Pep is opening things up.

 

 Nothing Arians about it as Pep will over the next couple seasons be developing Andrews short game passing skills.

[ColtsLegacy]

Allen had one great block and several he got manhandled on last game. YOU over rate him at this time.

Luck will probably get him killed again anyway with those high, late, in traffic throws of his.

Unless his injury (that he's supposedly fully healed from) has somehow had a negative effect on his blocking, Dwayne Allen is one of the better blocking TEs in football.

The second part of your comment is just dumb.

[Superman]

Technically yes, but that is only because Fleener is listed as a TE. That said, Fleener is a Hybrid TE. When we line him up wide, defenses will be forced to play big nickel and this should give Trent some running room in open space. 

 

In 2004 when Peyton threw 49 touchdowns, we listed Stokely as a TE, and even introduced him as a TE so technically we were running 12 personnel, but we were really playing 11 personnel. 

 

Fleener gives us the flexibility to run different personnel packages without substituting. 

 

Fleener is a TE. After the Jimmy Graham thing this offseason, that's pretty well established. Even hybrid TEs are still TEs. Just like Dallas Clark was, even though we used him as a flex/slot receiver.

 

Not sure what you mean about Stokley. He was never labeled or introduced as a TE. He was just a slot receiver.

[bballstud2]

I just rewatched all the plays that the first team offense ran, and it broke down like this: when we used 7-8 blockers, including a fullback, Richardson had 6 carries for 10 yards. One of those carries went for 5 yards, and we ran it to the weak side(only 3 blockers on the side he ran to). When we used less than seven blockers, he had 3 carries for 14 yards. When we try to play smashmouth football and run it down their throats, it just doesn't work. Not saying our line is terrible, they're just not good enough to be able to play smashmouth the way Pep wants. When we give TRich the ball in space out of the shotgun or pistol or the I-formation with no FB and 3+ WRs/TEs outside, he's successful. I know Pep realizes this(he has to bc its so obvious), but it's just stuck in his head that we HAVE to be a power running team, and we just can't do it. Not yet anyways. I hope we get away from the 21 and 22 personnel this year. I really think TRich has some potential (I know this is not a popular opinion lol) but I think if we run out of 11 and 12 personnel he will have success. Again, I know almost no one agrees with on that, just my opinion.

[bballstud2]

And on Fleener, he should never be lined up as a TE when we run. If he's in the slot or outside that's fine, but he's such a bad run blocker lol.

[BlueShoe]

Fleener is a TE. After the Jimmy Graham thing this offseason, that's pretty well established. Even hybrid TEs are still TEs. Just like Dallas Clark was, even though we used him as a flex/slot receiver.

 

Not sure what you mean about Stokley. He was never labeled or introduced as a TE. He was just a slot receiver.

 

Stokley was introduced in 2004 as a TE. That is a fact. I heard it several times in pregame introductions.

 

As far as the TE label, our conversation is just another example of why there is such a hot debate about it. I look for the NFL and NFLPA to agree to a new pay scale for hybrid tight ends too.

 

I believe that when we line up with Reggie, TY, with Fleener out wide, Allen on the line, and Richardson alone in the backfield; that we are playing 11 personnel or 11/12 hybrid personnel. Technically it is 12 personnel because of the position labels; however, in this scenario Fleener is lined up as a WR and used as a WR. By simply switching Fleener and Nicks (Both standing in the same place on the field) then we are now in 11 personnel. 

[BlueShoe]

I just rewatched all the plays that the first team offense ran, and it broke down like this: when we used 7-8 blockers, including a fullback, Richardson had 6 carries for 10 yards. One of those carries went for 5 yards, and we ran it to the weak side(only 3 blockers on the side he ran to). When we used less than seven blockers, he had 3 carries for 14 yards. When we try to play smashmouth football and run it down their throats, it just doesn't work. Not saying our line is terrible, they're just not good enough to be able to play smashmouth the way Pep wants. When we give TRich the ball in space out of the shotgun or pistol or the I-formation with no FB and 3+ WRs/TEs outside, he's successful. I know Pep realizes this(he has to bc its so obvious), but it's just stuck in his head that we HAVE to be a power running team, and we just can't do it. Not yet anyways. I hope we get away from the 21 and 22 personnel this year. I really think TRich has some potential (I know this is not a popular opinion lol) but I think if we run out of 11 and 12 personnel he will have success. Again, I know almost no one agrees with on that, just my opinion.

 

Pretty amazing isn't it? 

 

I believe Pep has realized this (I think he caught on late last year) and we will run a very high percentage of 11 and 12 personnel in the 2014 regular season.

[Superman]

Stokley was introduced in 2004 as a TE. That is a fact. I heard it several times in pregame introductions.

 

As far as the TE label, our conversation is just another example of why there is such a hot debate about it. I look for the NFL and NFLPA to agree to a new pay scale for hybrid tight ends too.

 

I believe that when we line up with Reggie, TY, with Fleener out wide, Allen on the line, and Richardson alone in the backfield; that we are playing 11 personnel or 11/12 hybrid personnel. Technically it is 12 personnel because of the position labels; however, in this scenario Fleener is lined up as a WR and used as a WR. By simply switching Fleener and Nicks (Both standing in the same place on the field) then we are now in 11 personnel. 

 

I'm not gonna tell you that you never heard Stokley introduced as a TE, but if you did, it was obviously a mistake. He's never been a hybrid TE/WR. It wasn't a way to trick the defense, it wasn't a special designation.

 

The league might introduce a hybrid designation for players like Jimmy Graham, but they haven't yet. He's still a TE. So is Fleener (and Fleener hasn't proven to be especially valuable as a flex/hybrid player, so far). You're right that the differences between 11/12 personnel are mostly semantics when you have a flex player like that, but the personnel groupings are what they are. If the playcaller asks for 11 personnel, he wants three WRs, one TE and one RB, not two WRs, a TE, a flex TE and a RB. That's the whole point of personnel designations, so that the coaches can get the proper personnel on the field.

 

And in our case, anytime we go with 12 personnel, one of those TEs is going to be Fleener. Maybe they'll figure out a special designation for 12 personnel with a flex TE, but it seems unnecessary in this case. I think 11 and 12 will be our most used packages, or should be, assuming both TEs are healthy. Like you say, 12 allows for great flexibility and minimizes the need for substitutions. And 11 probably puts our best group of playmakers on the field. Anything with a FB should be a situational package only, which pretty much rules it out between the 20s, unless it's 3rd/4th < 2.

[BlueShoe]

I'm not gonna tell you that you never heard Stokley introduced as a TE, but if you did, it was obviously a mistake. 

 

A mistake made several times in 2004?

 

Nope. I never understood why they did it. The only thing that makes sense is that we had played 12 personnel for most of Peyton's career to that point.