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How Can A Peyton Manning Make Such A Difference?


Zebra3

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This season has been educational in football terms for a number of reasons. but the biggest one is the impact on the game of the QB position. It's incredible how much of an impact it has - on both sides of the football. Before I begin, let me say I will be making broad generalizations because it's nearly impossible to quantify much of this topic because your talking about comparing QB play and there are so many factors and intangibles at work. So with that out of the way....

If you look at a standard game, there is time for 6-8 drives for each team, depending on the pace of play. There are perhaps 60-70 offensive snaps in a game. So, how can a Peyton Manning take a team to 10-6 or better and any other QB has trouble managing 1-15?

Let's look at the offense for a moment. If you assume that QB XYZ is 10% better at reading the line and making an audible than QB ABC, 10% better at going through his progression, 10% more accurate, 10% better at looking off the defense, those things start to mount up. one or two audibles that work that otherwise would not, one or two passes that are caught instead of missed or intercepted, one or two runs that work because of misdirection that otherwise would have been stuffed, one or two incomplete instead of sacks, and so on. These things mount up if XYZ is just a little better than ABC. But what if XYZ is Peyton Manning good? it could be even more of a difference. Suddenly there could be a positive outcome on 6+ more plays than otherwise might be the case - simply because of the better QB. That could be the difference between a drive failing and a drive ending with an FG, or the difference between a TD and an FG. It could be 10+ points a game - or more. It's easy to see how that kind of difference in QB can impact the offense.

But what about Defense? Well, if that QB is out there making 10% better calls and decisions, there are fewer turnovers which keeps the number of defensive series to a minimum. Better Offense means better field position, even when a drive ends in a punt giving the D more plays to stop an offense, and more plays to gain a turnover. The Tampa 2 defense is particularly prone to suffering from a short field. Given decent field position each time that defense has a decent chance of stopping the opposition or generating a turnover, or forcing a field goal. So just the field position the D inherits can help or hinder them. Having that QB that's just a bit better helps a bit more because if a turnover is won, the resulting drive may be longer and result in a positive score. Having better QB play can result in more time between series (although PM is so explosive, that it could be seconds...). If the O is better and gains the lead, the opposition are forced to throw more, which also feeds into the Tampa 2 defense. So again, better QB play, better O, better D.

So, what if the contrast between your QBs is higher than 10%? Let's look at a healthy Peyton Manning vs 50% of the *starting* QBs in the league. Is PM 10+% better in most respects than 50% of the starters at QB? I think so. Is he 10% better than any of the backups? You better believe it. Is he 20% better than most backups? Probably so. Obviously it's hard to quantify exactly, but who can honestly say that PM isn't in a different class to the backup QB population of the NFL?

So, if you have a team with PM or his equivalent as QB, and your backup is simply an average backup, what do you expect to happen if PM goes out with an injury?

Last season, over the season as a whole, the Colts won by an average of 3 points - a field goal. If the Colts are on average 10 points (for instance) a game worse without Peyton Manning, and we won by an average of 3 points per game last season, what does that tell you about this season?

Let's not rest there though, let's think about that for a minute. 3 points a game. 1 play, a field goal, for them, or us. One pass, one completion, one audible, one sack avoided, that's all we're really talking about as the difference between winning and losing. So unless our backup is within a whisker of Peyton Manning's standard, is it really that logical to expect we would win like we do with Peyton? Also, as the season progresses, team morale becomes a factor that changes performance. After losing as many games as we have, can we honestly say that everyone on the field is performing as effectively as they were in week 2 or 3? The guys could literally be giving 100%, but the effects of low morale will still affect their performance.

Even if the coaching, play calling game planning and everything else remained the same, removing a Peyton Manning and replacing him with anything other than Peyton Manning 2.0 could easily result in the kind of season we are experiencing.

Wow, Peyton Manning can make that kind of difference huh?

So, what if PM doesn't come back, are we doomed? Probably not, but we will *have* to change the way we play. Our defensive scheme will have to work without assuming a lead, the offense will have to change to something more conventional that does not depend on the on field flexibility of the QB, that means a stronger line, pass protection and better running game.

Peyton Manning is not easily replaced, he is like a finely tuned Indy car engine, just as you can't replace such an engine with the engine from a World Rally Championship car and expect the same performance, you can't replace Peyton with another QB and expect the same performance.

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usually a qb only revolves around the offense, but peyton is revolved around the whole team. special teams gets the ball to the 20 peyton goes 80 yards and scores. defense struggling. peyton will keep the game close and let the defense come back. peyton has a lead, defense goes butt wild on the qb. all this revolves around peyton. he has control over the whole team so no one really can bank on the idea that peyton will save them leaving them clueless on how to there job because good enough was enough to win games with peyton.

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It is as huge help for opponets when they don't have to spend all week game planning for our offense. With our best coach

Manning not playing, they work on putting there own game plan in. As for how Peyton it looks loke all he did was help hide there poor play. It is not like we ever won games 20-3 or 17-10. I t was generally hoping we could get the ball last and not leave time for the other teams qb. I am 45 years old and have watched football since I was little and I have never seen one player impact a team so greatly. Manning is the MAN

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I think when you are dealing with the elite of the elite at QB, the whole team is based off how they play and dictate a game. Remove a Rogers or Brees and such and the overall game plan changes and how your overall team plays.

Hmmmmmmmmmm? I thought he was selfish, greety and overrated and old.Way to flip flop AGAIN, Way to stay true to what you believe in. LOL. Remember Manning is to blame for alot of the Colts problems and i'll go get the post if you would like.
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Nice breakdown but anyone who's watched football over the last few years should realize that if a pass 1st team doesn't even have a capable qb, that team will struggle greatly. Even a run first team would need a capable qb. At the beginning of the season I thought Collins would be capable but I was wrong :(

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Hmmmmmmmmmm? I thought he was selfish, greety and overrated and old.Way to flip flop AGAIN, Way to stay true to what you believe in. LOL. Remember Manning is to blame for alot of the Colts problems and i'll go get the post if you would like.

I answer why the Colts are so dependent on Manning. Manning is selfish to a degree and greedy. I think his skills have begun to decline and his injury is only going to make that worse, but if you look back over his career you see my answer. No flip, you just can't handle anyone speaking poorly on your favorite player. I respect what Peyton did and how he helped this franchise, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have flaws.

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Nice breakdown but anyone who's watched football over the last few years should realize that if a pass 1st team doesn't even have a capable qb, that team will struggle greatly. Even a run first team would need a capable qb. At the beginning of the season I thought Collins would be capable but I was wrong :(

I think Collins may have been the answer if there was not lock out and that he could have come in around June/July and been given a month or so to work with the number 1 team and prep...but that didn't happen and we saw the result.

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Nice breakdown but anyone who's watched football over the last few years should realize that if a pass 1st team doesn't even have a capable qb, that team will struggle greatly. Even a run first team would need a capable qb. At the beginning of the season I thought Collins would be capable but I was wrong :(

Indeed, I think that we all really should have seen this season coming, and perhaps we did and didn't want to see it (I know I didn't). I am just surprised by how much impact PM's absence has on both sides of the ball. On the O I can see it, it's obvious, but the D? That was when I started thinking about the impact he truly has. I relate it in my mind to the Patriots without Brady. That team had a much stronger system than the Colts, so the absence of Brady had an impact, but it didn't have the kind of impact on the defense as Peyton's absence has at the Colts.

In a sense this says that the Colts are unbalanced, the pass first nature of the team is not the only part of that, the defense being built around gaining a lead and forcing the pass is part of it too.

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I think Collins may have been the answer if there was not lock out and that he could have come in around June/July and been given a month or so to work with the number 1 team and prep...but that didn't happen and we saw the result.

No, at his best, Collins was not in the same league as Peyton Manning, in his declining years after sitting on the couch all summer? Not a chance in the world. You say Peyton is in his declining years, well Peyton has years on Collins and is starting from a peak that Collins could never scale.

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I answer why the Colts are so dependent on Manning. Manning is selfish to a degree and greedy. I think his skills have begun to decline and his injury is only going to make that worse, but if you look back over his career you see my answer. No flip, you just can't handle anyone speaking poorly on your favorite player. I respect what Peyton did and how he helped this franchise, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have flaws.

My favorite player is my son. I will not be pulled in to your ignorant thoughts again, good day!
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Indeed, I think that we all really should have seen this season coming, and perhaps we did and didn't want to see it (I know I didn't). I am just surprised by how much impact PM's absence has on both sides of the ball. On the O I can see it, it's obvious, but the D? That was when I started thinking about the impact he truly has. I relate it in my mind to the Patriots without Brady. That team had a much stronger system than the Colts, so the absence of Brady had an impact, but it didn't have the kind of impact on the defense as Peyton's absence has at the Colts.

In a sense this says that the Colts are unbalanced, the pass first nature of the team is not the only part of that, the defense being built around gaining a lead and forcing the pass is part of it too.

to me it all comes down to if it ain't broke, don't fix it and it wasn't broke. We were winning, we were getting to the playoffs and even got to 2 SB, something very few other teams can say over the past 10 years. In the end what the Colts were doing was working.

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to me it all comes down to if it ain't broke, don't fix it and it wasn't broke. We were winning, we were getting to the playoffs and even got to 2 SB, something very few other teams can say over the past 10 years. In the end what the Colts were doing was working.

Yes it was broke. 1 title in 13 years is broken. It's underachieving. We were winning because in the regular season Manning has been able to cover up issues more times than not, When you get to the playoffs, you are facing the better teams, better defenses and its harder to cover up weaknesses.

In hindsight we should have blown the offense up when Mora was fired, brought in a OC that used the WCO, an offense that makes average at best qb's play good,( see Alex Smith, Mike Vick), good qb's play great( see Favre, Montana ), great qb's play phenomenal (see Aaron Rodgers, Steve Young).

Doing this would have made it easier on Painter to run an offense that is QB friendly as opposed to running an offense that isn't suited to his talents.

So we need to clean house, and start over on O & D, and that remains the same whether Peyton Manning is healthy, we trade the #1 pick for a boat load of picks or draft Andrew Luck.

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Indeed, I think that we all really should have seen this season coming, and perhaps we did and didn't want to see it (I know I didn't). I am just surprised by how much impact PM's absence has on both sides of the ball. On the O I can see it, it's obvious, but the D? That was when I started thinking about the impact he truly has. I relate it in my mind to the Patriots without Brady. That team had a much stronger system than the Colts, so the absence of Brady had an impact, but it didn't have the kind of impact on the defense as Peyton's absence has at the Colts.

In a sense this says that the Colts are unbalanced, the pass first nature of the team is not the only part of that, the defense being built around gaining a lead and forcing the pass is part of it too.

Thing is you can't compare seasons. For instance 11-5 without Brady 2009. Would NE be 11-5 THIS season without Brady?

Same with the colts. Would the team go 12-4 with Manning? Better than 0-10 I'm sure but where? I never thought the colts would contend this year way before PM was injured... for other reasons.

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Thing is you can't compare seasons. For instance 11-5 without Brady 2009. Would NE be 11-5 THIS season without Brady?

Same with the colts. Would the team go 12-4 with Manning? Better than 0-10 I'm sure but where? I never thought the colts would contend this year way before PM was injured... for other reasons.

I agree, it's extremely difficult to compare like with like, season to season - but it's kind of all we have for comparisons... To be honest I thought that the Colts would struggle to get 10+ wins with Manning this season as well. I feel that the wheels have been coming off the cart for a long time now, and with the cart-horse in the stable , the cart is going nowhere with 3 wheels and a pony trying to pull it.

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I agree, it's extremely difficult to compare like with like, season to season - but it's kind of all we have for comparisons... To be honest I thought that the Colts would struggle to get 10+ wins with Manning this season as well. I feel that the wheels have been coming off the cart for a long time now, and with the cart-horse in the stable , the cart is going nowhere with 3 wheels and a pony trying to pull it.

I predicted 8-8 for the Colts WITH Manning. Too many issues, bad coaching, young/bad O-line, and mediocre defense. 10-6 last year, another step back this year, although next year would have been pretty good with an O-line with two guys with a year plus of experience.

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I answer why the Colts are so dependent on Manning. Manning is selfish to a degree and greedy. I think his skills have begun to decline and his injury is only going to make that worse, but if you look back over his career you see my answer. No flip, you just can't handle anyone speaking poorly on your favorite player. I respect what Peyton did and how he helped this franchise, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have flaws.

How again is Manning selfish and greedy?

The thing is Polian built this team around Manning to play to his skills.

Manning has amazing pock awareness and would get the ball out quickly or throw it away. He also is a film rat which allowed him to diagnosis defenses and get us into the right play at the right time. This allowed Polian to go cheap along the offensive line and lean on Manning and Mudd.

Our offenses ability to score quickly and point up points allowed Polian to draft defensive players that were more focused on the pass. Our offenses ability to get leads helped Frathis attack the QB and ignore the run. Having smaller and quicker LBs helped in coverage against the TE and in zones. With an insane pass rush you are able to get by lackluster corners.

Polian built the team off of Manning's strengths and now that Manning is gone we see how ineffective this team is.

The Pats are playing with fire now as well with how poorly they have done in retooling that offense because they are becoming as dependent on Brady as we are with Manning. No way that Pats team sniffs the playoffs with that horrible defense if Brady is not there.

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No, at his best, Collins was not in the same league as Peyton Manning, in his declining years after sitting on the couch all summer? Not a chance in the world. You say Peyton is in his declining years, well Peyton has years on Collins and is starting from a peak that Collins could never scale.

I saw a 3 win season coming without Manning but I never in my wildest nightmares thought this team was bad enough to go 0-10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. Boy how I was wrong. If you look at the 3 parts of the team - Offense, Defense and Special Teams - 2 out of the 3 have pretty much always been bad with Manning playing. You need to win 2 out of the 3 to win games and we have been able to win on offense, and with our offense, the defense was able to slow down other teams so we could come away with a win. Special Teams was an after thought with the exception of field goals. Manning was the keystone holding this building up and without him it has collapsed.

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Yes it was broke. 1 title in 13 years is broken. It's underachieving. We were winning because in the regular season Manning has been able to cover up issues more times than not, When you get to the playoffs, you are facing the better teams, better defenses and its harder to cover up weaknesses.

In hindsight we should have blown the offense up when Mora was fired, brought in a OC that used the WCO, an offense that makes average at best qb's play good,( see Alex Smith, Mike Vick), good qb's play great( see Favre, Montana ), great qb's play phenomenal (see Aaron Rodgers, Steve Young).

Doing this would have made it easier on Painter to run an offense that is QB friendly as opposed to running an offense that isn't suited to his talents.

So we need to clean house, and start over on O & D, and that remains the same whether Peyton Manning is healthy, we trade the #1 pick for a boat load of picks or draft Andrew Luck.

I guess it all comes down to how you view success, to look back over the past decade as not successful or not successful enough to me is laughable, but we all have our own view of what success is. Sure would have more then 2 SB appearances been nice, sure but given that only what like 2 teams, maybe 3 went to more SB's over the same time as the colts, then I have to ask if your standards might be a bit to high?

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Yes it was broke. 1 title in 13 years is broken. It's underachieving. We were winning because in the regular season Manning has been able to cover up issues more times than not, When you get to the playoffs, you are facing the better teams, better defenses and its harder to cover up weaknesses.

In hindsight we should have blown the offense up when Mora was fired, brought in a OC that used the WCO, an offense that makes average at best qb's play good,( see Alex Smith, Mike Vick), good qb's play great( see Favre, Montana ), great qb's play phenomenal (see Aaron Rodgers, Steve Young).

Doing this would have made it easier on Painter to run an offense that is QB friendly as opposed to running an offense that isn't suited to his talents.

So we need to clean house, and start over on O & D, and that remains the same whether Peyton Manning is healthy, we trade the #1 pick for a boat load of picks or draft Andrew Luck.

I wouldn't say it was completely broken but it was definately leaking oil and transmission fluid. Colts generally had an easy road to the playoffs playing in the AFC South but the wheels fell off once they got to the playoffs. If it were not for us playing the Bears and Sexy Rexy in 2006 SB we may not have that one ring. Also, if the Jets hadn't beaten the Chargers for us we probably wouldn't have made it to our last SB.

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I've actually been thinking about this lately. I think it ultimately comes down to the fact that Peyton Manning was the center of the system that the Colts had in place. On the offensive side, it's obvious that Manning was by far the most important person, but I think the presence of Manning changed the way the defense played as well. With Peyton leading the offense, any opponent had to assume that the Colts could essentially score points at will as they needed to, and thus they were under pressure to score, and to score a lot. This led to a lot more pass plays, which were stopped by an effective pass rush with the very fast but not very big D-line of the Colts and the fairly competent secondary, especially when Sanders was healthy. The reason the Colts lost so often in the playoffs was the fact that the teams they played against, especially the Pats and Steelers (which accounted for almost every playoff loss) didn't run their offense to score points. They ran their offense to keep Peyton off the field, which meant that as long as they could put up a few points against the below average defense (which both teams were more than capable of), they had a very good shot at winning by only giving Manning a couple drives to work with.

I think the QB position is very similar to the PG position in basketball. Look at how the UNC Tar Heels did last year when they had a sub-par PG versus how they did when Kendall Marshall stepped in. Their system demands a very skilled PG able to direct the offense, and when that isn't present, everything else begins to collapse. Other systems don't depend on the PG as heavily and can get by regardless of who is in that position. Ultimately, the Colts kind of set themselves up for this by creating a system that revolves around the QB, but it really has been pretty successful, regardless of those who say differently. Other than those of you who expect the Colts to win the Super Bowl every year, the Colts have been widely regarded as one of the most successful teams of the past decade, and always a Super Bowl contender, more than can be said of probably 80% of the other teams in the NFL. However, now with Manning injured and most likely starting a slow decline in his career, the system needs to be fixed. I don't think it was broken, but it certainly is now, and this season is more than enough evidence for that.

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I guess it all comes down to how you view success, to look back over the past decade as not successful or not successful enough to me is laughable, but we all have our own view of what success is. Sure would have more then 2 SB appearances been nice, sure but given that only what like 2 teams, maybe 3 went to more SB's over the same time as the colts, then I have to ask if your standards might be a bit to high?

115 wins in a decade, 7 or 8? division titles, that is all and fine. Yeah it was successful, but I find it even more underachieving than I do successful. I think a lot of that stems from the passivity of the last two head coaches. Maybe I do have high standards, maybe I expect too much. I also think that some of that success contributed to not improving the way that we should. 18 covered up so much for so many years. We have had years where I have felt they were successful. 2008.. Making the playoffs after a slow start was one. Last year with all the injuries and the players leading the team to the post season was great and I could have been okay with losing to the Jets if it wouldn't have been for the moronic time out that pretty much sealed the game for them. I bet if you ask the players, they've had one successful year overall, and they might feel that a couple of others have been fairly decent, but this team underachieved far more than they over achieved.

I wouldn't say it was completely broken but it was definately leaking oil and transmission fluid. Colts generally had an easy road to the playoffs playing in the AFC South but the wheels fell off once they got to the playoffs. If it were not for us playing the Bears and Sexy Rexy in 2006 SB we may not have that one ring. Also, if the Jets hadn't beaten the Chargers for us we probably wouldn't have made it to our last SB.

Good points and each are examples of a broken system. If we had a solid system in place we wouldn't be 0-10 at this point.

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115 wins in a decade, 7 or 8? division titles, that is all and fine. Yeah it was successful, but I find it even more underachieving than I do successful. I think a lot of that stems from the passivity of the last two head coaches. Maybe I do have high standards, maybe I expect too much. I also think that some of that success contributed to not improving the way that we should. 18 covered up so much for so many years. We have had years where I have felt they were successful. 2008.. Making the playoffs after a slow start was one. Last year with all the injuries and the players leading the team to the post season was great and I could have been okay with losing to the Jets if it wouldn't have been for the moronic time out that pretty much sealed the game for them. I bet if you ask the players, they've had one successful year overall, and they might feel that a couple of others have been fairly decent, but this team underachieved far more than they over achieved.

Good points and each are examples of a broken system. If we had a solid system in place we wouldn't be 0-10 at this point.

My feeling is that if your goal is just to make the playoffs, you are probably not a very good team to start with. The colts regular season record speaks for itself, but some would say all the first round losses have kept this team from being one of the greatest of modern time. You have to more than one ring with all this talent. The atlanta braves have had probably the greatest runs ever but you never hear them mentioned with greatness.
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Success is a unquie thing and view differently by everyone. Detroit fans would look at the colts franchise over the past decade as incredibly successful while Steeler fan and Pat fan wouldn't. I don't put as much stock into the playoffs and superbowl as others because there is to much luck involved in it. For me to continue to having winning season after winning season of 16 games per season shows alot of a franchise. I guess if the playoffs were more then 1 game and involved only the really great teams, then I might value it higher, but as we saw last year, and in other years, the best overall team doesn't always win the Superbowl.

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Success is a unquie thing and view differently by everyone. Detroit fans would look at the colts franchise over the past decade as incredibly successful while Steeler fan and Pat fan wouldn't. I don't put as much stock into the playoffs and superbowl as others because there is to much luck involved in it. For me to continue to having winning season after winning season of 16 games per season shows alot of a franchise. I guess if the playoffs were more then 1 game and involved only the really great teams, then I might value it higher, but as we saw last year, and in other years, the best overall team doesn't always win the Superbowl.

I'm ashamed of myself for spending several minutes trying to decipher this mess.

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My feeling is that if your goal is just to make the playoffs, you are probably not a very good team to start with. The colts regular season record speaks for itself, but some would say all the first round losses have kept this team from being one of the greatest of modern time. You have to more than one ring with all this talent. The atlanta braves have had probably the greatest runs ever but you never hear them mentioned with greatness.

Exactly

Division titles and 10 win seasons around here are 2nd nature.

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I think his skills have begun to decline and his injury is only going to make that worse

2 things wrong with that statement, first off his injury happened 3 or so years ago and he has been playing with it since. The surgery was to fix it. So with a full recovery in all likelihood it will make him better. And knowing Peyton he wont stop working till hes back on the field. 2nd thing. You think his skills have declined? really? I thought he has gotten better with age, maybe lost a bit of arm strength due to the injury, but we are witnessing this season the team he has been playing with for the last 4 or so years. over that period of time the Colts have gotten worse and worse, yet manning still has them in playoffs and his numbers didn't falter one bit. He has played on some AWFUL teams recently, but has gotten increasingly better for it. if they could build a great team, even a good team with Manning that spells one thing and one thing only Superbowl. Manning isn't finished his career yet, I just hope when he does come back, its in the colts uniform.

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I predicted 8-8 for the Colts WITH Manning. Too many issues, bad coaching, young/bad O-line, and mediocre defense. 10-6 last year, another step back this year, although next year would have been pretty good with an O-line with two guys with a year plus of experience.

Our O line is better this year and the defense hasn't changed outside of Clint Session leaving. We were 10-6 last year because of injuries not because we sucked. Dear god.

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2 things wrong with that statement, first off his injury happened 3 or so years ago and he has been playing with it since. The surgery was to fix it. So with a full recovery in all likelihood it will make him better. And knowing Peyton he wont stop working till hes back on the field. 2nd thing. You think his skills have declined? really? I thought he has gotten better with age, maybe lost a bit of arm strength due to the injury, but we are witnessing this season the team he has been playing with for the last 4 or so years. over that period of time the Colts have gotten worse and worse, yet manning still has them in playoffs and his numbers didn't falter one bit. He has played on some AWFUL teams recently, but has gotten increasingly better for it. if they could build a great team, even a good team with Manning that spells one thing and one thing only Superbowl. Manning isn't finished his career yet, I just hope when he does come back, its in the colts uniform.

Are you crazy?

He's only won A Super Bowl, a Super Bowl MVP, 2 NFL MVP, numerous awards since getting his neck banged up vs. Washington. How dare you.

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I agree, it's extremely difficult to compare like with like, season to season - but it's kind of all we have for comparisons... To be honest I thought that the Colts would struggle to get 10+ wins with Manning this season as well. I feel that the wheels have been coming off the cart for a long time now, and with the cart-horse in the stable , the cart is going nowhere with 3 wheels and a pony trying to pull it.

yeah, not to mention the other carts in the league have sharpened their wheels:)

I do disagree in that season to season is all you have to compare (which is true itself) rather I would say just don't compare cus' ya can't. :)

Actually I see 99% of arguments on these forums from faulty comparisons.

Football is amazing. It's literally game to game... not to mention a lot of bounces and luck of the ball.

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Our O line is better this year and the defense hasn't changed outside of Clint Session leaving. We were 10-6 last year because of injuries not because we sucked. Dear god.

We were 10-6 last season because the defense couldn't get off the field and special teams kept giving the opposing team a short field to work with. The defense and special teams have been declining over the past few years. Combine this with poor coaching and injuries and we have a perfect storm. We were fortunuate to get that 10-6 record and win the division because both Jacksonville and Houston faltered toward the end of the season.

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I answer why the Colts are so dependent on Manning. Manning is selfish to a degree and greedy. I think his skills have begun to decline and his injury is only going to make that worse, but if you look back over his career you see my answer. No flip, you just can't handle anyone speaking poorly on your favorite player. I respect what Peyton did and how he helped this franchise, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have flaws.

So Peyton is greedy, you say? Name me one player -- just one -- in the history of the NFL who will not negotiate through his agent to get every dime he can get paid. Name just one player of any sport who doesn't do the same. That is not greed. That is just business. If it is greed, it is greed on both sides. The owners will try to pay as little as they can to get talent; and the talent demands all they can get. This is the USA and this is our economic system. It is called capitalism.

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So Peyton is greedy, you say? Name me one player -- just one -- in the history of the NFL who will not negotiate through his agent to get every dime he can get paid. Name just one player of any sport who doesn't do the same. That is not greed. That is just business. If it is greed, it is greed on both sides. The owners will try to pay as little as they can to get talent; and the talent demands all they can get. This is the USA and this is our economic system. It is called capitalism.

You are correct and I have nothing against Peyton getting all he can get, but in the same time you then have to understand that with a salary cap system, you are thus limiting your franchise from possibly adding other key players who can help your team. If you are eating up say 15% of the teams salary cap where as if you say took less and only eat up 10% that other 5% by you and others who take a little less can make a big difference.

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You are correct and I have nothing against Peyton getting all he can get, but in the same time you then have to understand that with a salary cap system, you are thus limiting your franchise from possibly adding other key players who can help your team. If you are eating up say 15% of the teams salary cap where as if you say took less and only eat up 10% that other 5% by you and others who take a little less can make a big difference.

Your logic is flawed as usual. If that's the case then every NFL player is greedy because they are all trying to get as much as they can in their short careers. The market dictates and the player's skills dictate what he should make. Even if the players were to take less money to free up cap space for other players, the franchises will not spend that extra money on other players. They will pocket that money.

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No, at his best, Collins was not in the same league as Peyton Manning, in his declining years after sitting on the couch all summer? Not a chance in the world. You say Peyton is in his declining years, well Peyton has years on Collins and is starting from a peak that Collins could never scale.

Collins could have grasped a conventional offense..

But our offense was almost down to unspoken communication with plays called at the line...

Manning wanst caling audibles ta the line. he was calling plays at he line and then changing the according to the fronts he saw..

The vets all knew the shorthand he used..and we operated at a fast pace

Without him...we run right into defensive sets and we play at a slow pace

If would have taken Collins a couple of years for him to learn to do that because none of the teams he played for do that..

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Your logic is flawed as usual. If that's the case then every NFL player is greedy because they are all trying to get as much as they can in their short careers. The market dictates and the player's skills dictate what he should make. Even if the players were to take less money to free up cap space for other players, the franchises will not spend that extra money on other players. They will pocket that money.

Not to add to his argument but owners are required to spend almost all of their cap money.

But to your point Manning has restructured his contract in order to keep other Colts on the team.

I do not see how Manning is excessively greedy

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This season has been educational in football terms for a number of reasons. but the biggest one is the impact on the game of the QB position. It's incredible how much of an impact it has - on both sides of the football.

It has no impact at all. There are many teams that are winning games with bad QB's. Jets, SF, Buffalo, KC, even Tebow wins games (he is atrocious).

Football will always be a team game, and a good team can win with a bad to average QB.

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