Peyton Manning Voted No.1 By The Players

[Shane Bond]

Um, weren't you saying how he and Brady had no chemistry? They had plenty of chemistry to the point that the Pats wanted him back.

Well he didnt want to play with Pats, his first year there wasnt what he expected. They didnt.

 

And thank you was for the proof shown for how many teams wanted him in 2013.

[amfootball]

Well he didnt want to play with Pats, his first year there wasnt what he expected. They didnt.

 

And thank you was for the proof shown for how many teams wanted him in 2013.

I am not sure I follow. He had a very good year with 74 catches and 900+ yards in 2012. They had signed him to a three year deal and then cut him to save money. They then reached out in 2013 to bring him back but he declined. He declined other teams requests as well. He basically said he was done with football and then it came out that he was a bit of a head case. He and Brady had very good chemistry which refutes your point that Brady did not mesh well with some of the FA/vet receivers. That was not true with Lloyd and many others.

[chad72]

Did anyone see this "my Dad is better than yours" Peyton-Brady argument coming from a mile ahead when this thread was started?

 

I would have never known it would end up like this.   /sarcasm

[Shane Bond]

I am not sure I follow. He had a very good year with 74 catches and 900+ yards in 2012. They had signed him to a three year deal and then cut him to save money. They then reached out in 2013 to bring him back but he declined. He declined other teams requests as well. He basically said he was done with football and then it came out that he was a bit of a head case. He and Brady had very good chemistry which refutes your point that Brady did not mesh well with some of the FA/vet receivers. That was not true with Lloyd and many others.

Which is way lesser than his close to 1500 yards season with Kyle Orton who is a backup QB for cowboys now. I mean the guy quit football after a year with Pats.

What's with Chad Johnson?. He had 7 over 1000 yards seasons with Carlson Palmer. 276 yards with Pats.

Point is weapons were given, not utilized or know how to mould them.

[Guest nflfan014]

Jeez, some of you defend Peyton like he's your first born.  It's kind of weird.  You realize you have a great QB and up and coming team of your own, right? 

 

Face it, there are 3 other QBs in Peyton's league.  No one will ever agree on who's the best, but Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Manning (no particular order) are in that elite tier.  To try to denigrate Brady and overexaggerate Peyton is doing a disservice to both QBs and it's kind of weird that a fan would go to that length to defend his/her favorite player that isn't on their team anymore.

 

Guess what, Peyton and Brady both take number 2s.  Both of their number 2s stink.  Both are once in a lifetime QBs.

 

Most of all, relax, it's just football.  Do you think Peyton sits around caring about his doubters?  He's the one that's a millionaire and one of the best players ever to play; he'd be the first person to tell you he doesn't need you and the media to defend his every move and downplay other great QBs.

 

Really, if it wasn't for Colts fans, Bronco fans, Colt/Bronco hybrid fans, and the media, more people would like him.

[Guest nflfan014]

The other funny thing is, Peyton and Brady are really close friends off the field and were in regular contact when they each had their respective injuries.  Of course they want to beat each other and one-up the other when they play on the field, but there's no hatred there.

[NewColtsFan]

Let me try to explain why this list and the voting process is terrible. I'm going to use Joe Thomas as an example (highest rated O-lineman). 

 

Let's just round that number from the PFT link to 25% for math use. 25% of the player in the NFL voted on this list. 

 

Since we don't actually know the exact number from each team, let's just say an even 25% voted from each team. Now only 13 teams played the Browns this year. And by extension Joe Thomas. So only 13.25 players (53(roster size)*.25) from 13 teams (172 players) actually played the Browns this season.13.25 player per team. That number drops considerably when you consider that half of that 13.25 are players on offense and never get to see Joe Thomas in action, nor break down his game tape. So now you have 6.63 players from 13 teams who actually face Joe Thomas on the field. 86 of 424 players who we assumed voted (20%). Now we also have to consider that some of these players don't even match up with Joe Thomas on any given play. Notably the secondary. Do we really think that Earl Thomas can be an authority on how good of a LT Joe Thomas is if he probably never goes up against him in the game, nor breaks down his game tape? That's 5/11ths (45%) (safeties and corners) of the defense that probably never interact with Joe Thomas at any point in the game. So there are only roughly 3.64 player on 13 teams who actually break down Joe Thomas' tape and/or face him in a game. (note: math is probably way off somewhere as I did this hastily, but you get my overall point)

 

47 of 424 players. 11.1% of the players who voted. 2.7% of player in the league (based on 53 man rosters*32 teams).

 

This doesn't even really account for the fact that players can only list their Top 20s and that some of these guys have admitted to it being a joke and just write some of their teammates names at the top of it. 

 

Good post.    And I agree with the basic thrust.   That's roughly my problem with it too.

 

Too few players voting,  and those that do only vote for a top-20.    I think voting for a top-50 would have been much better.   But I suspect the NFLN were afraid that doing a list of 50 would scare off more players from voting.      But I don't find a top-20 to be very representative.      I suspect the total votes for the players who are ranked 51-100 is very view.

 

All that said.........

 

I still think a vote of the players,  even roughly 25 percent,  carries more weight than the vote of fans.

 

That's why even though I may not love it,  I don't hate it.   

[MTC]

The players don't vote, NFL Network does.

[jvan1973]

The players don't vote, NFL Network does.

you might want to read the entire thread

[amfootball]

Which is way lesser than his close to 1500 yards season with Kyle Orton who is a backup QB for cowboys now. I mean the guy quit football after a year with Pats.

What's with Chad Johnson?. He had 7 over 1000 yards seasons with Carlson Palmer. 276 yards with Pats.

Point is weapons were given, not utilized or know how to mould them.

What? Lloyd was the number one receiver with Denver back then. In 2012 the Pats had Gronk, AH and Welker. Not enough footballs to go around. As it was, he had his second or third best total of his career which shows how well he and Brady worked together.

 

You would have to ask him why he quit football. He had many teams wanting him to play for them but it came out that he was a head case. Maybe at 31 he had enough. Players quit for all sorts of reasons.

 

Are you really bringing up Chad Johnson? The guy admitted he could not pick up the play book. It happens. The Pats run one of the most complex systems and Chad could not even line up right which prevented him from even being on the field most of the time.

 

And for all this talk about vet FAs not working with the Pats, what about all the receivers that Brady has helped make into stars - Brown, Welker, Branch, Givens, AH, Gronk .... and most recently Edleman ... ?

[Shane Bond]

What? Lloyd was the number one receiver with Denver back then. In 2012 the Pats had Gronk, AH and Welker. Not enough footballs to go around. As it was, he had his second or third best total of his career which shows how well he and Brady worked together.

You would have to ask him why he quit football. He had many teams wanting him to play for them but it came out that he was a head case. Maybe at 31 he had enough. Players quit for all sorts of reasons.

Are you really bringing up Chad Johnson? The guy admitted he could not pick up the play book. It happens. The Pats run one of the most complex systems and Chad could not even line up right which prevented him from even being on the field most of the time.

And for all this talk about vet FAs not working with the Pats, what about all the receivers that Brady has helped make into stars - Brown, Welker, Branch, Givens, AH, Gronk .... and most recently Edleman ... ?

Discussion is about lack of weapons. Point is he was given, couldn't make it work. If you have a complex play book, QB can teach to make it easier but not every QB is a certain name.

[amfootball]

Discussion is about lack of weapons. Point is he was given, couldn't make it work. If you have a complex play book, QB can teach to make it easier but not every QB is a certain name.

The year he had Johnson, he took the Pats to the Super Bowl with a deplorable defense. How is that not making work? That is the whole point, no matter who has Brady had surrounding him, he has always delivered the wins.

[Shane Bond]

The year he had Johnson, he took the Pats to the Super Bowl with a deplorable defense. How is that not making work? That is the whole point, no matter who has Brady had surrounding him, he has always delivered the wins.

Ok, shall we quit on this lack of weapon thing then?.

[amfootball]

Ok, shall we quit on this lack of weapon thing then?.

He has had lack of weapons when compared to Manning for sure but then again no QB in this era has ever had the weapons that Manning has had and that is not a knock on Manning as he has done a ton with that talent and has helped make that talent as well. The only comparable year though for Brady in terms of talent was 2007 and that year he lit the record books on fire and almost went perfect.

[ViriLudant]

Brandon Lloyd - WR - 49ers

Profootballtalk reports free agent Brandon Lloyd has rejected inquiries from at least six teams about playing in 2013.

The Patriots, 49ers, and Jets are three of the six reported teams that have reached out to Lloyd. The 32-year-old apparently has no interest in playing, saying that he's neither physically or mentally ready to continue his career.

 

 

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Tom Brady has been "calling and texting" free agents Brandon Lloyd and Deion Branch "gauging their availability."

We're assuming Brady is doing so on behalf of Patriots management. Per Rapsheet, Branch has told Brady he's "ready whenever," but that Lloyd wants to finish shooting his zombie movie before a potential return. In case you hadn't heard, Lloyd is starring in a direct-to-DVD affair with Daniel Baldwin called "After Effect." Lloyd likely has more left in the tank than Branch, but was a fading player last season and a locker-room lawyer. The fact that he's back on the Patriots' radar speaks to their lack of faith in their rookie wideouts.

Related: Patriots

I'm friends with a good friend of Mike Reiss, the reporter who's probably best connected to the Patriots. Mike has told my friend that the Patriots do not want Lloyd back at all. He was very unpopular in that locker room.

[ViriLudant]

Not true. They outreached to him and other teams as well but he declined.

Yeah, according to sources that aren't close to the Patriots. Reiss disagrees with you.

[amfootball]

Yeah, according to sources that aren't close to the Patriots. Reiss disagrees with you.

Do you have a link? It was widely reported that the Pats outreached to Lloyd given the woes at WR last year...

 

Why does it bother you so much? Lloyd was a solid receiver for them in 2012. His YAC was horrible but he gave us very good production.

[ViriLudant]

Do you have a link? It was widely reported that the Pats outreached to Lloyd given the woes at WR last year...

 

Why does it bother you so much? Lloyd was a solid receiver for them in 2012. His YAC was horrible but he gave us very good production.

First of all, because it's false. The Patriots management did not want Lloyd back last year. Perhaps they did when Thompkins and Dobson were injured , out of desperation. Or do you believe every report out there?

Lloyd was certainly solid, although I know that the Patriots' FO hated how he never tried for YAC. But it's true they they didn't want him back.

[Dustin]

I'm friends with a good friend of Mike Reiss, the reporter who's probably best connected to the Patriots. Mike has told my friend that the Patriots do not want Lloyd back at all. He was very unpopular in that locker room.

Seems legit.

[ViriLudant]

Seems legit.

It is, actually. Am would know all about this if she posted on PP.

And: (not sure if this pasting will work)

Deep Threat ‏@DeeepThreat 1h

@SteveB7SFG @animedpet Lloyd in 2012: 74-131 for 56.5%, 911 yards, 4 TD, 1 INT, 7.0 YPA, 85.1 target rating (Brady 99.2 overall)

View conversation

Steve Balestrieri ‏@SteveB7SFG 1h

@animedpet And that was WITH Gronkowski, Welker and Hernandez

View conversation

Steve Balestrieri ‏@SteveB7SFG 1h

@animedpet Lloyd was force fed the ball as well. Brady's compl % was only 57 % targeting Lloyd. On deep ball to Lloyd, Brady was 8 of 36

[ViriLudant]

In fact, it was confirmed by Bedard that the Patriots didn't contact Lloyd.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000243805/article/brandon-lloyd-never-received-call-from-patriots

And yes, Bedard would know. Funny how PFT is now believable here.

[Shane Bond]

He has had lack of weapons when compared to Manning for sure but then again no QB in this era has ever had the weapons that Manning has had and that is not a knock on Manning as he has done a ton with that talent and has helped make that talent as well. The only comparable year though for Brady in terms of talent was 2007 and that year he lit the record books on fire and almost went perfect.

Yeah you will be going in circles and will never admit Manning plays a huge part in moulding the talent. I bet if Manning had Chad Johnson, he would have taught him the way he wanted.

[Dustin]

In fact, it was confirmed by Bedard that the Patriots didn't contact Lloyd.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000243805/article/brandon-lloyd-never-received-call-from-patriots

And yes, Bedard would know. Funny how PFT is now believable here.

I'm good friends with Tom Brady. He told me the Patriots tried to sign him.

[ViriLudant]

I'm good friends with Tom Brady. He told me the Patriots tried to sign him.

*yawn*. That's nice. Too bad Bedard and Reiss proved you wrong.

[jvan1973]

*yawn*. That's nice. Too bad Bedard and Reiss proved you wrong.

you need to look up proof in a dictionary

[Dustin]

*yawn*. That's nice. Too bad Bedard and Reiss proved you wrong.

I have 2 sources vs your 1.

[Fx Stryker]

You know what I think? All 2007 proves it Tom Brady can't make a #1 receiver look good in a vertical offense, unless he is Randy Moss, the physical freak who can catch anything in sight.

The people Brady has made look good are RBs coming out of the backfields, Wes Welker, the underneath dunk and dunk receiving master, and the oversized Gronk and Hernandez.

Patriots have brought in WRs who succeeded in vertical offenses, but somehow failed at the Pats. I bet if Reggie signed in New England in 2012 he would have "failed," and it would have been blamed.on his age. When in fact we have seen Reggie isn't too old.

I'm not trying to downgrade Brady because all QBs have physical limitations. He was smart enough to succeed with what he has instead of forcing something. Just like Peyton has evolved his game after the nerve injury. Great QBs are smart enough to work with what they can do.

[amfootball]

First of all, because it's false. The Patriots management did not want Lloyd back last year. Perhaps they did when Thompkins and Dobson were injured , out of desperation. Or do you believe every report out there?

Lloyd was certainly solid, although I know that the Patriots' FO hated how he never tried for YAC. But it's true they they didn't want him back.

That is exactly why they wanted him back. They cut him to save money and then asked him to come back after the injuries and such and this is something they have done repeatedly with players over the years that have been productive but that they didn't want to pay. Lloyd was a solid receiver, why on earth would they not want him back? How many times did they ask Branch to come back when he was not nearly as productive? Whatever Lloyd's issues were, he preformed on the field just fine.

[amfootball]

You know what I think? All 2007 proves it Tom Brady can't make a #1 receiver look good in a vertical offense, unless he is Randy Moss, the physical freak who can catch anything in sight.

The people Brady has made look good are RBs coming out of the backfields, Wes Welker, the underneath dunk and dunk receiving master, and the oversized Gronk and Hernandez.

Patriots have brought in WRs who succeeded in vertical offenses, but somehow failed at the Pats. I bet if Reggie signed in New England in 2012 he would have "failed," and it would have been blamed.on his age. When in fact we have seen Reggie isn't too old.

I'm not trying to downgrade Brady because all QBs have physical limitations. He was smart enough to succeed with what he has instead of forcing something. Just like Peyton has evolved his game after the nerve injury. Great QBs are smart enough to work with what they can do.

Such rubbish. What about Deion Branch, you know that Super Bowl MVP who looked like trash after he left Brady only to come back and revive his career.

[amfootball]

Yeah you will be going in circles and will never admit Manning plays a huge part in moulding the talent. I bet if Manning had Chad Johnson, he would have taught him the way he wanted.

????  I just said Manning played a big part in molding the talent.

[Dustin]

You know what I think? All 2007 proves it Tom Brady can't make a #1 receiver look good in a vertical offense, unless he is Randy Moss, the physical freak who can catch anything in sight.

The people Brady has made look good are RBs coming out of the backfields, Wes Welker, the underneath dunk and dunk receiving master, and the oversized Gronk and Hernandez.

Patriots have brought in WRs who succeeded in vertical offenses, but somehow failed at the Pats. I bet if Reggie signed in New England in 2012 he would have "failed," and it would have been blamed.on his age. When in fact we have seen Reggie isn't too old.

I'm not trying to downgrade Brady because all QBs have physical limitations. He was smart enough to succeed with what he has instead of forcing something. Just like Peyton has evolved his game after the nerve injury. Great QBs are smart enough to work with what they can do.

I don't think it's any secret Brady has bad deep accuracy.

[amfootball]

I don't think it's any secret Brady has bad deep accuracy.

Imagine if he did? Instead of 3 rings probably 6  and instead of the best winning percentage in the game, he would be a perfect .1000. ;)

[Dustin]

Imagine if he did? Instead of 3 rings probably 6 and instead of the best winning percentage in the game, he would be a perfect .1000. ;)

Probably would have won a super bowl within the last decade.

[amfootball]

Probably would have won a super bowl within the last decade.

For sure.

[ViriLudant]

That is exactly why they wanted him back. They cut him to save money and then asked him to come back after the injuries and such and this is something they have done repeatedly with players over the years that have been productive but that they didn't want to pay. Lloyd was a solid receiver, why on earth would they not want him back? How many times did they ask Branch to come back when he was not nearly as productive? Whatever Lloyd's issues were, he preformed on the field just fine.

No, they never asked him back.

Per Bedard.

Per Reiss.

[sweetsurrender]

You know what I think? All 2007 proves it Tom Brady can't make a #1 receiver look good in a vertical offense, unless he is Randy Moss, the physical freak who can catch anything in sight.

The people Brady has made look good are RBs coming out of the backfields, Wes Welker, the underneath dunk and dunk receiving master, and the oversized Gronk and Hernandez.

Patriots have brought in WRs who succeeded in vertical offenses, but somehow failed at the Pats. I bet if Reggie signed in New England in 2012 he would have "failed," and it would have been blamed.on his age. When in fact we have seen Reggie isn't too old.

I'm not trying to downgrade Brady because all QBs have physical limitations. He was smart enough to succeed with what he has instead of forcing something. Just like Peyton has evolved his game after the nerve injury. Great QBs are smart enough to work with what they can do.

Yeah, Brady has probably been the best short to mid-range QB ever. The Pats offense has never really been designed for the deep ball except for the year with Moss. Smart coaches always play to the QBs strengths and for the Pats that has yielded great success.

[Fx Stryker]

Such rubbish. What about Deion Branch, you know that Super Bowl MVP who looked like trash after he left Brady only to come back and revive his career.

You mean the Deion Branch who played to career averages in Seattle, but didn't have the compiled number because of injury?

Or the Deion who was on pace for a career year with Matt Hasselback if not for a foot injury?

But forget that; Brady revived his career by giving him his worst two seasons. Let me guess though it was because he got "old."

[Superman]

Jeez, some of you defend Peyton like he's your first born.  It's kind of weird.  You realize you have a great QB and up and coming team of your own, right? 

 

Face it, there are 3 other QBs in Peyton's league.  No one will ever agree on who's the best, but Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Manning (no particular order) are in that elite tier.  To try to denigrate Brady and overexaggerate Peyton is doing a disservice to both QBs and it's kind of weird that a fan would go to that length to defend his/her favorite player that isn't on their team anymore.

 

Guess what, Peyton and Brady both take number 2s.  Both of their number 2s stink.  Both are once in a lifetime QBs.

 

Most of all, relax, it's just football.  Do you think Peyton sits around caring about his doubters?  He's the one that's a millionaire and one of the best players ever to play; he'd be the first person to tell you he doesn't need you and the media to defend his every move and downplay other great QBs.

 

Really, if it wasn't for Colts fans, Bronco fans, Colt/Bronco hybrid fans, and the media, more people would like him.

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

[amfootball]

You mean the Deion Branch who played to career averages in Seattle, but didn't have the compiled number because of injury?

Or the Deion who was on pace for a career year with Matt Hasselback if not for a foot injury?

But forget that; Brady revived his career by giving him his worst two seasons. Let me guess though it was because he got "old."

Sure it was injuries. That is why when he came back to NE, he said he should have never left and that Brady was the best QB he has ever played with. And yeah revived his career by taking him to another Super Bowl. 

[amfootball]

No, they never asked him back.

Per Bedard.

Per Reiss.

Your basis is a friend of a friend then? No links. Just like Tomase who said a friend of a friend told him the Pats taped the Rams SB walk though forcing the Herald to write a public apology on its bag page to avoid Kraft suing them for defamation.