Peyton Manning Voted No.1 By The Players

[amfootball]

The no huddle has been around forever. It was Jim Kelly and the K-gun that brought the QB to the line to call the play. Hardly an invention of Manning or Moore. In fact the Indy O is an unbelievably simple offense but again not one that you see any team or QB running. Credit Manning for his ability to run that offense so well but again no one is copying it. For sure Manning has left an imprint but he has not changed the game like a Unitas. He has been a great QB and done great things but nothing that has altered the way the game is played. 

Meh, just the way Manning plays has altered the game. His Indy offense may being copied exactly but so much of what he does from the pocket and before the ball is snapped has been copied. I remember Brady saying that he has tried to copy Manning's complete control of the offense and his command. Not easy to do which is probably why you don't see any QBs doing it. Brady is probably the closest and Rodgers.

[Dustin]

The extreme hurry up that the Pats ran two years ago was from Chip Kelly. Belichick met with Kelly in the off-season and implemented it. And it was Bill and Brady that introduced the spread offense to the NFL in the mid '00s.

 

Uhh no it wasn't. Ever heard of Don Coryell?

[Fx Stryker]

The extreme hurry up that the Pats ran two years ago was from Chip Kelly. Belichick met with Kelly in the off-season and implemented it. And it was Bill and Brady that introduced the spread offense to the NFL in the mid '00s.

 

The spread offense was brought in from the college game by Don Coryell. Which we now know as the "Air Coryell," and was ran in the 80s. Air Coryell was the offense Tom Moore and Manning based theirs off of. Which then the Patriots started utilizing.

 

The no huddle has been around forever. It was Jim Kelly and the K-gun that brought the QB to the line to call the play. Hardly an invention of Manning or Moore. 

 

I never said that, and specifically stated they didn't. Johnny U was running no huddle back while calling his own plays in the 50s. In the 60's he didn't care to listen to his coach because Johnny was older and knew how to run an offense better. That coach turned out to be Shula.

[Jules]

Peyton would be a great politician. All smoke and mirrors.

 

I could easily see this happening someday too when he is done playing. Been saying it for years to family. He would likely win too I feel with his fan following.

[JerodMayo51]

I disagree!  The Top 100 list is horribly flawed because of the way it is conducted.  "List the top 20 players regardless of position" is very subjective (and a bit of a popularity contest or at least a memorability contest) and leads to anomalies like Jimmy Graham not making the list last year and Matt Forte being in the 90s this year.  The fan poll is conducted in a much more fair way with a series of head to head comparisons of players in the top couple hundred.  If the player list was built using the same mechanism it would be much more reliable and would more accurately reflect the players opinions.

 

Manning certainly deserves the #1 but there were lots of picks that I thought were questionable. 

 

Fan voting is even more horribly flawed because they have a bias and always vote first for the players on their team, and second vote for the players they know.

 

A vast majority of fans also don't have a deep understanding of the game of football.  The other players in the league understand the intricacies of the sport and schematics, so they can understand and appreciate players that excel at their position because they're subject experts and also play against these guys and know what types of problems they cause for defenses.

 

The fact that you think fans are more intelligent and understand the intricacies of this sport more than the players actually playing it is very surprising.

 

Fans vote with their heart, players vote with their brains.

[JerodMayo51]

Well we need someone to defend Manning.

Never seen a positive word about Manning from you.

Saying Manning's OL was good compared to Brady is insanity.

 

Dont know what games you were watching last year, but the Patriots offensive line was not one of their strong suits last year and Brady was sacked more times last year than any other year prior in his entire career.

 

They had a few injuries along the line, including Sebastian Vollmer who is an All-Pro RT.  Not sure where you're trying to go with this statement, but to suggest that Brady had some stellar oline and Manning had a wet paper bag is just completely off base.

 

Add to the fact that Manning was playing with all-pro and hall of fame talent players at the skill positions who are veterans of the game and understand the intricacies, route running techniques and how to beat zone coverage.. and you have a situation where he could get rid of the ball faster because his receivers were where they needed to be and he could trust that they would be there.

 

Brady was playing with 3 rookies and was missing both of his star tight ends from the previous year, as well as the best slot corner in the entire NFL that left for guess who....  The Broncos with Manning.

[JerodMayo51]

 

He pretty much had no name. We know who DT is because of the single catch he made against Pittsburgh. His number were increasing linearly, but they increased exponentially with Manning. Without Manning DT isn't viewed as a top receiver.

 

Of course his numbers went up exponentially with Manning, he had Tim Tebow before that!  The same Tim Tebow that went 2-8 completions/attempts in a game and still won because of his defense.

 

Tim Tebow couldn't even get a backup job in the NFL btw... he was THAT bad.. not a single team in the NFL even wanted him on their roster as a backup.   Of course DTs numbers would go up lol..  Look at Moss' numbers in 2006 compared to 2007 and talk about numbers going up.  Look at Welker's numbers in Miami in 2006 compared to 2007 and talk about numbers going up.

 

If you put amazingly talented players around amazingly talented QBs, their numbers will go up.. That isn't a big secret or something, especially when you go from Tim I-cant-even-make-it-as-a-third-string-qb Tebow to a hall of famer in Manning.

 

 

I don't think it's the fact that you praised Brady. I didn't read the whole, but what I got is that you were saying Brady accomplished more by making it to the AFCCG than Manning did by making the Super Bowl. If that's not what you said then I retract what I said.

 

I think it was a great accomplishment to make it to the Super Bowl.. but its funny, when the season started i made posts saying that the Broncos could potentially go undefeated because of how stacked the team was.  That exact same team made the playoffs the year before with Tim Tebow, and that was without Wes Welker who is a hall of fame talent.

 

Manning picked the Broncos for a reason... because they were the most complete team ready to win a Championship and they had a tremendously talented offense.. then he goes there and has a great year and everyone is like OMG look how amazing Manning is!  Never a single mention of all the talented players around him that made it possible.. and thats been his MO for most of his career with the exception of a couple years, and even then he still had Reggie Wayne who is a hall of famer.

 

 

I think Brady's a great QB. He has accomplished great things, but I still think Manning is the better QB of the two. The way QBs play today is because of Manning. Brady's greatest accomplishment is winning Super Bowls. There is 48 different teams to win the Super Bowl, Manning has a team included. There are very few individuals to touch the game of football like Manning has.

 

I agree that Manning and Brady have set the bar for how to play QB in the NFL today and they have both accomplished a lot.. but this isn't 2004 anymore, you can't just say that Brady's greatest accomplishment is winning super bowls.. Those are of course huge accomplishments and defining points in his career, but he has put up tremendous numbers as well and has the highest winning percentage of any QB in the league, and more playoff wins than Joe Montana..  He was responsible for 2 of the top 4 scoring offenses of all time in league history.. He has won 2 NFL MVPs and was the only one to ever win it unanimously...  He has oodles of 4th quarter and comeback wins.. and he did it with a revolving door at the offensive coordinator and skill positions.. 

 

It didnt matter who they threw in there, he would work with them and turn them into a winner and get production out of them.  He didnt have the luxury of having hall of fame talent around him most of his career, or the same offensive coordinator for the majority of his career.  When he was actually given weapons on offense, he broke NFL records and nearly went undefeated if not for a miracle catch off a no name players helmet.   He has overcome adversity and played to a consistently high level for his entire career... That is what his greatest accomplishment is, and appearing in 5 SBs and winning 3 of them are just feathers in the cap.

 

Manning is one of the greatest to ever play as well.. He has consistently put up stellar numbers in high powered offenses and will always be recognized for that, but dont pretend like he never had help along the way from his extremely talented cast of players around him.  Its a team game, but the frustrating part is that back in the early and mid 2000's, all everyone here said was "Manning IS the team, he carries them, they go where he goes, hes the GOAT!" and then when they would lose big games in playoffs or SBs, it was "well he just didnt have a good team around him"..   Everyone knows this is a team sport, but it was always conveniently never mentioned when they were winning, but emphasized when they were losing.

 

Both are deserving of the recognition and accolades that are rained down upon them and both will be remembered forever in the NFL history books as some of the greatest to ever strap on a helmet..  As far as who you think is better, that debate will never end, thats like saying Mint Chocolate Chip is better then Cookie Dough ice cream... someone will feel very strongly with conviction one way or the other, and neither are wrong.

[BloodyChamp]

Comparing Peyton to Brett Favre is a cardinal sin. Unlike Favre, Peyton never had a flip-flop deal with retirement and didn't go out of his way for media attention like Favre. Not only that, but Peyton wouldn't be as awkward and rude (for lack of a better term) with Luck as Favre was with Rodgers. I know many Colts fans (including myself) that would have been very happy to see Peyton win the Super Bowl.

You're way off, yet not that far off...or something.

Comparing Colts fans to Packers fans is the cardinal sin. Colts fans realize they can't control the guy the traded 2 years after the trade. Packer fans blaming Favre for coming out of retirement the 29th time are the same people who are going to blame their wives for cheating on them 29 times. After the first time, if you buy the lie, it's your own dang fault. Peyton Manning himself even said in 2007 that he knew Favre wasn't retiring after getting so close that year.

[JerodMayo51]

 

 

 

But no other player eat, sleeps, and breathes football like Peyton does.

 

This is purely your opinion and cannot be measured.. there are tons of players in this league, including Russel Wilson, who live and breath football because they're obsessed with it and are obsessed with trying to be the best at it.  Manning, Wilson, Brady and a slew of others all have that work ethic and passion for the game.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to take away from Brady, but the way he plays is because of Manning. That extremely fast passed offense they had was a model based off of what Peyton was doing. Belichick even said the one time they have Gronk and Hernandez because they seen what weapons a tight end can be from the Colts offense.

 

You are trying to take credit from Brady and also give wayyyy too much credit to Manning in the process.

 

If you want to really give someone credit for executing and evolving the fast paced, no huddle offense then you can thank Jim Kelly and the Buffalo Bills.... It was referred to as the K-Gun offense, so no.. Manning did NOT invent that offense, he learned it from people who came before him.

 

Also, this idea that he calls all his own players is totally false too btw.. there is an article someone posted a week or so ago and it was an interview of him and the offensive coordinator of the Broncos.. He gets his plays called into his helmet like everyone else.. and sure, he has some freedom to make adjustments at the line, as do most of the veteran QBs in the game today, so that isn't some unique thing that only Manning does and people like to give him way too much credit for that too..  Just look at this "Omaha" thing that was totally blown up by the media before the Super Bowl... That audible has been around forever and he just chooses to use it.

 

 

 

But like you said his staple is an offense that no other QB can do. No one can, Peyton is the only one that does it like he does, and is as successful as he is. And it's not because they aren't trying because they are.

 

 

No teams WANT to run the style of offense that the Colts did with Manning because if you base everything off of 1 guy and he goes down with an injury, you see what happens.  That is not an intelligent way to build a team and you wont see anyone trying to emulate it..  He also doesnt run that style of offense anymore in Denver btw, so its not like he is some wizard or magician, he just had consistency around him in Indy that allowed him to do that.

 

 

The only reason he was able to run that style of offense was because he had the same great offensive coordinator in Tom Moore for the majority of his career, along with a guy you may have heard of named Marvin Harrison who is one of the greatest WRs ever to play the game and a guy named Reggie Wayne who is a hall of famer.  Throw in Marshal Faulk, Edjerin James and a slew of other very talented, veteran guys and you can start running those types of schemes.

[oldunclemark]

Meh, just the way Manning plays has altered the game. His Indy offense may being copied exactly but so much of what he does from the pocket and before the ball is snapped has been copied. I remember Brady saying that he has tried to copy Manning's complete control of the offense and his command. Not easy to do which is probably why you don't see any QBs doing it. Brady is probably the closest and Rodgers.

That's a good point..

First of all..you have to have total confidence of the coaches and total knowledge of your players and the playbook..with all its options..

Tom Brady doenst seem to have the same receivers every year...//What numbers would he have jacked up with Reggie Wayne for 6 years?

Peyton seems to maintain his good hands people which is why Denver could repeat the numbers (if not the won-loss record) of 2013 if Wes and the Thomas brothers stay healthy

[Dustin]

This is purely your opinion and cannot be measured.. there are tons of players in this league, including Russel Wilson, who live and breath football because they're obsessed with it and are obsessed with trying to be the best at it. Manning, Wilson, Brady and a slew of others all have that work ethic and passion for the game.

You are trying to take credit from Brady and also give wayyyy too much credit to Manning in the process.

If you want to really give someone credit for executing and evolving the fast paced, no huddle offense then you can thank Jim Kelly and the Buffalo Bills.... It was referred to as the K-Gun offense, so no.. Manning did NOT invent that offense, he learned it from people who came before him.

Also, this idea that he calls all his own players is totally false too btw.. there is an article someone posted a week or so ago and it was an interview of him and the offensive coordinator of the Broncos.. He gets his plays called into his helmet like everyone else.. and sure, he has some freedom to make adjustments at the line, as do most of the veteran QBs in the game today, so that isn't some unique thing that only Manning does and people like to give him way too much credit for that too.. Just look at this "Omaha" thing that was totally blown up by the media before the Super Bowl... That audible has been around forever and he just chooses to use it.

No teams WANT to run the style of offense that the Colts did with Manning because if you base everything off of 1 guy and he goes down with an injury, you see what happens. That is not an intelligent way to build a team and you wont see anyone trying to emulate it.. He also doesnt run that style of offense anymore in Denver btw, so its not like he is some wizard or magician, he just had consistency around him in Indy that allowed him to do that.

The only reason he was able to run that style of offense was because he had the same great offensive coordinator in Tom Moore for the majority of his career, along with a guy you may have heard of named Marvin Harrison who is one of the greatest WRs ever to play the game and a guy named Reggie Wayne who is a hall of famer. Throw in Marshal Faulk, Edjerin James and a slew of other very talented, veteran guys and you can start running those types of schemes.

1988 Bengals ran the no-huddle before Kelly and the Bils.

[Dustin]

Fan voting is even more horribly flawed because they have a bias and always vote first for the players on their team, and second vote for the players they know.

A vast majority of fans also don't have a deep understanding of the game of football. The other players in the league understand the intricacies of the sport and schematics, so they can understand and appreciate players that excel at their position because they're subject experts and also play against these guys and know what types of problems they cause for defenses.

The fact that you think fans are more intelligent and understand the intricacies of this sport more than the players actually playing it is very surprising.

Fans vote with their heart, players vote with their brains.

no they don't. Players have their biases too.

List is garbage.

[JerodMayo51]

1988 Bengals ran the no-huddle before Kelly and the Bils.

 

Yea thats true, but i was more pointing to the fact that the Bills evolved it by executing it to such a high level and going to 4 straight SBs with it that the rest of the league started taking notice.

[NewColtsFan]

no they don't. Players have their biases too.

List is garbage.

 

I'll take a players vote over a fans vote, any day.

 

And I say that while agreeing that players have their biases too.   But there's are more grounded in reality than that of the fans.

 

As for the list,  it may not be great....   but I think it's far from garbage.

[Shane Bond]

You are very, very misinformed.

Lloyd had issues; apparently he was a problem in the locker room , and wasn't liked at all.

Never mind the fact that he was a possession WR who hit the deck before any contact.

Btw, there's a reason why no one picked him up in 2013.

Brady didn't have chemistry with WRs? What kind of foolishness is that?

Moss?

Welker?

Brown?

Branch?

Gronk?

Hernandez?

Perhaps you need to bow out.

I gave you facts and you start calling personal shots. Read the posts fully and watch your language.

[Shane Bond]

Dont know what games you were watching last year, but the Patriots offensive line was not one of their strong suits last year and Brady was sacked more times last year than any other year prior in his entire career.

They had a few injuries along the line, including Sebastian Vollmer who is an All-Pro RT. Not sure where you're trying to go with this statement, but to suggest that Brady had some stellar oline and Manning had a wet paper bag is just completely off base.

Add to the fact that Manning was playing with all-pro and hall of fame talent players at the skill positions who are veterans of the game and understand the intricacies, route running techniques and how to beat zone coverage.. and you have a situation where he could get rid of the ball faster because his receivers were where they needed to be and he could trust that they would be there.

Brady was playing with 3 rookies and was missing both of his star tight ends from the previous year, as well as the best slot corner in the entire NFL that left for guess who.... The Broncos with Manning.

Don't know what posts you read, we are talking particularly Colts OL.

[Dustin]

I'll take a players vote over a fans vote, any day.

And I say that while agreeing that players have their biases too. But there's are more grounded in reality than that of the fans.

As for the list, it may not be great.... but I think it's far from garbage.

I think garbage describes it pretty well actually. The process and results bear that out.

JJ Watt the 12th best player....lol

[NewColtsFan]

I think garbage describes it pretty well actually. The process and results bear that out.

JJ Watt the 12th best player....lol

 

On a list of 100 players,  I don't see why or how JJ Watt being "insulted" all the way down to 12th makes a list garbage.

 

I was more surprised that Luck fell from 23rd to 30th than Watt being 12th.

 

Either way,  it's the players,  so I think it has some value.    Maybe not a lot,  but at least some....    at least for me.

 

I appreciate that it doesn't for you.

 

On an unrelated topic....   where you been?    Seems like you disappeared for a week or so....    summer vacation?

[amfootball]

Uhh no it wasn't. Ever heard of Don Coryell?

Sure but the Pats introduced the modern version was my point. And almost took it to a perfect season.

[amfootball]

Yea thats true, but i was more pointing to the fact that the Bills evolved it by executing it to such a high level and going to 4 straight SBs with it that the rest of the league started taking notice.

Yep and that is what the Pats did to the spread offense in the mid '00's. Began executing to such a high level that the rest of the league took notice.

[ViriLudant]

I gave you facts and you start calling personal shots. Read the posts fully and watch your language.

Take time to actually look at facts about Brady's teams, then get back to me.

Trying to use Lloyd and Stallworth and others at the ends of their careers as evidence that Brady had quality WRs? Laughable.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Fan voting is even more horribly flawed because they have a bias and always vote first for the players on their team, and second vote for the players they know.

 

A vast majority of fans also don't have a deep understanding of the game of football.  The other players in the league understand the intricacies of the sport and schematics, so they can understand and appreciate players that excel at their position because they're subject experts and also play against these guys and know what types of problems they cause for defenses.

 

The fact that you think fans are more intelligent and understand the intricacies of this sport more than the players actually playing it is very surprising.

 

Fans vote with their heart, players vote with their brains.

 

I'm sorry for being unclear but I in no way meant to imply that the fan list is is better at all.  I only meant that the voting mechanism used by the fans (who is better, player one or player two) is better than that used by the players (list the 20 best players regardless of position).

 

The fan list is simply horrible (Russell Wilson was #6 and Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers were #13 & 14!) (Joe Thomas was #87) but it would have been even worse had they used the same voting system.the players used.  They did show Forte some more respect putting him at #25 which is much more realistic than putting him in the 90s.

[Dustin]

Sure but the Pats introduced the modern version was my point. 

 

No they didn't. Next you're going to give them credit for inventing the 2 tight-end set. 

[Dustin]

On an unrelated topic....   where you been?    Seems like you disappeared for a week or so....    summer vacation?

 

Been lurking. Not really too many interesting topics to comment on at this time of the year. 

[Shane Bond]

Take time to actually look at facts about Brady's teams, then get back to me.

Trying to use Lloyd and Stallworth and others at the ends of their careers as evidence that Brady had quality WRs? Laughable.

Brandon Lloyd was 31 when he came to Pats. Was at his peak and he was brought in by Josh McDaniels. Thats just one example.

 

Your ignorance and lack of acceptance is laughable.

[Dustin]

Let me try to explain why this list and the voting process is terrible. I'm going to use Joe Thomas as an example (highest rated O-lineman). 

 

Let's just round that number from the PFT link to 25% for math use. 25% of the player in the NFL voted on this list. 

 

Since we don't actually know the exact number from each team, let's just say an even 25% voted from each team. Now only 13 teams played the Browns this year. And by extension Joe Thomas. So only 13.25 players (53(roster size)*.25) from 13 teams (172 players) actually played the Browns this season.13.25 player per team. That number drops considerably when you consider that half of that 13.25 are players on offense and never get to see Joe Thomas in action, nor break down his game tape. So now you have 6.63 players from 13 teams who actually face Joe Thomas on the field. 86 of 424 players who we assumed voted (20%). Now we also have to consider that some of these players don't even match up with Joe Thomas on any given play. Notably the secondary. Do we really think that Earl Thomas can be an authority on how good of a LT Joe Thomas is if he probably never goes up against him in the game, nor breaks down his game tape? That's 5/11ths (45%) (safeties and corners) of the defense that probably never interact with Joe Thomas at any point in the game. So there are only roughly 3.64 player on 13 teams who actually break down Joe Thomas' tape and/or face him in a game. (note: math is probably way off somewhere as I did this hastily, but you get my overall point)

 

47 of 424 players. 11.1% of the players who voted. 2.7% of player in the league (based on 53 man rosters*32 teams).

 

This doesn't even really account for the fact that players can only list their Top 20s and that some of these guys have admitted to it being a joke and just write some of their teammates names at the top of it. 

[amfootball]

Brandon Lloyd was 31 when he came to Pats. Was at his peak and he was brought in by Josh McDaniels. Thats just one example.

 

Your ignorance and lack of acceptance is laughable.

Llyod had 70+ catches/just shy of 1,000 yards. He had great chemistry with Brady. The Pats wanted him back the following season but he decided he didn't want to play anymore. It was well known that we was a head case.

[amfootball]

No they didn't. Next you're going to give them credit for inventing the 2 tight-end set. 

I didn't say they invented it. I said they modernized it which they did.

[Dustin]

I didn't say they invented it. I said they modernized it which they did.

 

Ok, I'll bite. How did they "modernize" the spread offense? 

[Superman]

Let me try to explain why this list and the voting process is terrible. I'm going to use Joe Thomas as an example (highest rated O-lineman). 

 

Let's just round that number from the PFT link to 25% for math use. 25% of the player in the NFL voted on this list. 

 

Since we don't actually know the exact number from each team, let's just say an even 25% voted from each team. Now only 13 teams played the Browns this year. And by extension Joe Thomas. So only 13.25 players (53(roster size)*.25) from 13 teams (172 players) actually played the Browns this season.13.25 player per team. That number drops considerably when you consider that half of that 13.25 are players on offense and never get to see Joe Thomas in action, nor break down his game tape. So now you have 6.63 players from 13 teams who actually face Joe Thomas on the field. 86 of 424 players who we assumed voted (20%). Now we also have to consider that some of these players don't even match up with Joe Thomas on any given play. Notably the secondary. Do we really think that Earl Thomas can be an authority on how good of a LT Joe Thomas is if he probably never goes up against him in the game, nor breaks down his game tape? That's 5/11ths (45%) (safeties and corners) of the defense that probably never interact with Joe Thomas at any point in the game. So there are only roughly 3.64 player on 13 teams who actually break down Joe Thomas' tape and/or face him in a game. (note: math is probably way off somewhere as I did this hastily, but you get my overall point)

 

47 of 424 players. 11.1% of the players who voted. 2.7% of player in the league (based on 53 man rosters*32 teams).

 

This doesn't even really account for the fact that players can only list their Top 20s and that some of these guys have admitted to it being a joke and just write some of their teammates names at the top of it. 

 

I'm not arguing in favor of the voting process, but you're critique suggests that only players who actually match up against each other are qualified to vote on rankings. I disagree with that.

[Dustin]

I'm not arguing in favor of the voting process, but you're critique suggests that only players who actually match up against each other are qualified to vote on rankings. I disagree with that.

 

Of course not. But a WR can have a certain LT ranked #6 where as a DE who actually played him can have him ranked #60. (Or #20 in this case since their ballots only have 20 spots)

[Superman]

Of course not. But a WR can have a certain LT ranked #6 where as a DE who actually played him can have him ranked #40. 

 

In this case, the DE can't have the LT ranked #40 because they only rank 1-20. Also, that DE hardly faced 40 other players himself, and it's doubtful that he would have ranked all 40 of them ahead of the LT that another player in the league felt was the 6th best player in the league, overall. But point taken.

 

Something else you mentioned, that some of the players just voted for their teammates. I don't know about that. The rankings seem to follow some logic, even though there are many head scratchers. But if everyone just voted for their teammates, it would yield an absolute disaster of a list. So I think some of them actually do take the voting somewhat seriously.

[Dustin]

Also, that DE hardly faced 40 other players himself, and it's doubtful that he would have ranked all 40 of them ahead of the LT that another player in the league felt was the 6th best player in the league, overall. But point taken.

 

Something else you mentioned, that some of the players just voted for their teammates. I don't know about that. The rankings seem to follow some logic, even though there are many head scratchers. But if everyone just voted for their teammates, it would yield an absolute disaster of a list. So I think some of them actually do take the voting somewhat seriously.

 

The only way that the voting would make sense to me is if they had certain positions vote on other positions they faced. (e.i. have corners vote for WRs, TE, ect.... and have WRs vote for CBs, Safties, ect....) and sort of average it out. Even then, it probably wouldn't be that good, but it'd probably be better than what they have now. 

[Superman]

The only way that the voting would make sense to me is if they had certain positions vote on other positions they faced. (e.i. have corners vote for WRs, TE, ect.... and have WRs vote for CBs, Safties, ect....) and sort of average it out. Even then, it probably wouldn't be that good, but it'd probably be better than what they have now. 

 

To me, it's no different than any other list. Just because it's "by the players" doesn't make it any more official. 

 

But a lot of players play fantasy football. A lot of them are aware of how their peers are viewed. A corner doesn't face other corners, but he watches film of receivers and how other corners play against them. And so on... So players obviously have a level of knowledge about other players in the league. That doesn't make their voting or opinions more valid. Just saying, their opinions don't necessarily have to be limited only to players they actually face throughout the year.

[ViriLudant]

Brandon Lloyd was 31 when he came to Pats. Was at his peak and he was brought in by Josh McDaniels. Thats just one example.

 

Your ignorance and lack of acceptance is laughable.

Oh dear god, you have zero idea what you're talking about.

Lloyd was an average WR and a locker room cancer.

Please explain why no one picked him up throughout ALL of 2013. Or was he, at 32, out of his prime?

[ViriLudant]

Llyod had 70+ catches/just shy of 1,000 yards. He had great chemistry with Brady. The Pats wanted him back the following season but he decided he didn't want to play anymore. It was well known that we was a head case.

Uh, no, this isn't true at all. The Patriots had zero interest in bringing him back.

[Dustin]

Uh, no, this isn't true at all. The Patriots had zero interest in bringing him back.

 

Brandon Lloyd - WR - 49ers

Profootballtalk reports free agent Brandon Lloyd has rejected inquiries from at least six teams about playing in 2013.

The Patriots, 49ers, and Jets are three of the six reported teams that have reached out to Lloyd. The 32-year-old apparently has no interest in playing, saying that he's neither physically or mentally ready to continue his career.

 

 

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Tom Brady has been "calling and texting" free agents Brandon Lloyd and Deion Branch "gauging their availability."

We're assuming Brady is doing so on behalf of Patriots management. Per Rapsheet, Branch has told Brady he's "ready whenever," but that Lloyd wants to finish shooting his zombie movie before a potential return. In case you hadn't heard, Lloyd is starring in a direct-to-DVD affair with Daniel Baldwin called "After Effect." Lloyd likely has more left in the tank than Branch, but was a fading player last season and a locker-room lawyer. The fact that he's back on the Patriots' radar speaks to their lack of faith in their rookie wideouts.

Related: Patriots

 

 

 

[Shane Bond]

 

Brandon Lloyd - WR - 49ers

Profootballtalk reports free agent Brandon Lloyd has rejected inquiries from at least six teams about playing in 2013.

The Patriots, 49ers, and Jets are three of the six reported teams that have reached out to Lloyd. The 32-year-old apparently has no interest in playing, saying that he's neither physically or mentally ready to continue his career.

 

 

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Tom Brady has been "calling and texting" free agents Brandon Lloyd and Deion Branch "gauging their availability."

We're assuming Brady is doing so on behalf of Patriots management. Per Rapsheet, Branch has told Brady he's "ready whenever," but that Lloyd wants to finish shooting his zombie movie before a potential return. In case you hadn't heard, Lloyd is starring in a direct-to-DVD affair with Daniel Baldwin called "After Effect." Lloyd likely has more left in the tank than Branch, but was a fading player last season and a locker-room lawyer. The fact that he's back on the Patriots' radar speaks to their lack of faith in their rookie wideouts.

Related: Patriots

 

 

 

 

Thank you.

[amfootball]

Uh, no, this isn't true at all. The Patriots had zero interest in bringing him back.

Not true. They outreached to him and other teams as well but he declined.

[amfootball]

Thank you.

Um, weren't you saying how he and Brady had no chemistry? They had plenty of chemistry to the point that the Pats wanted him back.