Peyton Manning Voted No.1 By The Players

[Shane Bond]

 

 

My summation - I don't think Manning is as great as we think he is when he plays good teams and because of that he should not be so heavily criticized when he loses in the post-season.

Based on this logic, are you suggesting Brady is not great after 2004?.

[Shane Bond]

Brady had far less pieces on offense to work with then Manning did. That is why him making it to the AFC Championship Game is impressive. This whole Manning can't win the big one thing isn't something I made up. It's been argued to death and where there is smoke there is fire. The big one is indeed subjective, and it goes back to his college days, but in my mind it is the Super Bowl. Yea, he won one, but his recent track record isn't very impressive, especially regarding a QB of his stature. His fans and the media are at fault with this: When you build a guy up to godlike status and praise him for MVPs and smashing records you can expect him to get a heckuva lot of blame too when 48-8 happens. He is a nice guy and a stupendous player but there are always excuses for when he doesn't play well or doesn't live up to the expectations. And that just adds fuel to the fire.

I used my example to show my feelings about losing in the postseason; I wasn't applying it to Brady or saying that because he lost sooner makes his situation better. Both guys deserve a lot of credit but no one should be shamed into not attributing blame as well.

Is it really an accident Manning has great weapons always?. Did it ever occur he is the creator of his weapons?.

 

This weapon thing is getting old. Brady was given weapons too. Chad Johnson, Brandon Floyd, Dante Stallworth, Ben Watson etc. They are not bad receivers. And why did Brady shine with Moss and Welker?. Because they are really great WRs. They make and look QBs life easy. Look at Randy Moss 23 TDs in 2007 and how he grabbed some of those passes.

 

Who were Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Eric Decker, Caldwell, Blair White?. And how many hrs Manning spend time with them during off season?.

 

There are only 2 WRs who are world class - Marvin and Reggie.

 

If One and Done is all Manning's fault, all the weapons he had over the years are his creation.

[Qwiz]

Is it really an accident Manning has great weapons always?. Did it ever occur he is the creator of his weapons?.

 

This weapon thing is getting old. Brady was given weapons too. Chad Johnson, Brandon Floyd, Dante Stallworth, Ben Watson etc. They are not bad receivers. And why did Brady shine with Moss and Welker?. Because they are really great WRs. They make and look QBs life easy. Look at Randy Moss 23 TDs in 2007 and how he grabbed some of those passes.

 

Who were Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Eric Decker, Caldwell, Blair White?. And how many hrs Manning spend time with them during off season?.

 

There are only 2 WRs who are world class - Marvin and Reggie.

 

If One and Done is all Manning's fault, all the weapons he had over the years are his creation.

Sure. Sometimes the creations are made, while at other times...such as this Denver situation...good receivers are inherited. Brady had, who, Dobson, Boyce, a not 100% Gronkowski for a few games? Guys he clearly needed more chemistry with but still managed to get the best out of them. Manning, meanwhile, had Demaryius Thomas (a first-round talent) Eric Decker (who made Tebow look good) and Julius Thomas, not to mention Brady's old reliable weapon Wes Welker. Garcon is a good receiver and continues to prove that in Washington. Manning played with Marvin Harrison and Wayne throughout his entire career as a Colt so there was always that blanket though, yes, he did make some receivers look better than they really were. I wouldn't exactly call Collie, Blair White weapons (look at where they are now) and Clark was a first-round talent so there's that too. When I mentioned weapons I was more talking about this year anyway. And no one is saying that the one and dones were all Manning's fault.

[amfootball]

...except for the Baltimore game that Denver lost 38-35..

I think the effort to find a trend a thread that follow s through losses....is a theory in search of support..

You hit on it...When Manning is rushed and nobody is open he loses. All QBs do.

It bothers me that QBs who don't make the playoffs every year are analyzed differently than Peyton Manning.

I still hear how Eli Manning is so good in the post-season. Well, it helps your post-season record when you don't make the post season every year.

Joe Flacco's post-season record is good. It helps that Baltimore missed the playoffs last season.

See what I mean?

What is Peyton...11-12..How many QBs have 11 playoff wins?

Ravens game is a great example. Multiple turnovers and no scores in the second half or OT. He was held to 21 offensive points which is one point over his average in his one and done losses.

 

Your point about the post-season is fair in one regard but who is comparing Manning to Flacco and Eli? We all know Peyton is the better QB and again the expectation is different as it should be. Eli and Flacco have not won the league MVPs or put up the numbers Peyton does every year so the expectation is not there which makes their post-reason records stand out more. As I said earlier, Manning has much higher expectations that I believe are based in a falsehood that he is this great QB when he plays quality teams which you always play in the post-season. His stats and records show he is not a great QB when he plays teams above .500.

[amfootball]

So you're telling me that Manning's offenses don't do as well against better defenses? How is that news? How is it exclusive to Manning?

 

I just think it's like you said earlier. In some respects, the standards that other QBs are held to are raised for Manning. 

I think his Indy offense limits him to play well against better defenses. Because of a lack of plan B, he struggles and at times struggles mightily like we saw in last year's super bowl.

[amfootball]

I mean isnt that normal?. How will the difference be equal?.

The difference is large so that plays into the perception that he should put up the same type of numbers vs the Pats or Seattle as he does vs the Raiders and Redskins. When he doesn't or has a performance like he did vs Seattle than he is unfairly criticized. He is not a great QB vs above .500 teams. That is not to say he has not had good or even great games at times or has never won but he is sub .500 vs above .500 teams in both the regular season and post-season over his career and his stats go from eye popping to average/very good.

[ViriLudant]

I like to call that "The Bob Sanders Effect". But in general, Peyton has been plagued with average coaching and defenses. Also, don't let the stats fool you into thinking the Colts had a good defense. There was one year where we only gave up 6 (or so) pass TDs, but that was because teams had such an easy time running the ball on us, they didn't need to pass it. The stats would indicate that our pass defense was one of the best in the league that year, but that's not the case

If I recall, the Colts had the best scoring defense in '03 or '04.

That's the only stat that matters.

[ViriLudant]

Lol....no sane person actually believes the Colts defense was ever dominant. It was a defense that thrived against poor quarterbacks when given a lead.

Sorry, this isn't proven at all when the Colts had the #1 scoring defense in '03 or '04.

[ViriLudant]

New apologetic viewpoint? Ummm what?

The old GM got fired because all he did was rely on Peyton Manning to take us to the promise land by himself. When he got hurt, the truth was abundantly clear.

Colts Defense rankings since '02

2002: 25th

2003: 22nd

2004: 4th

2005: 22nd

2006: 12th

2007: 30th

2008: 22nd

2009: 15th

2010: 13th

2011: 8th

Pretty sure that these rankings are by yards , which is perhaps the worst way to rank a defense.

Check by points , the best measurable stat.

[lollygagger8]

Pretty sure that these rankings are by yards , which is perhaps the worst way to rank a defense.

Check by points , the best measurable stat.

 

You check. I did it by points. 

[amfootball]

You check. I did it by points. 

Here it is by points:

 

2013 - 9

2012 - 21

2011 - 28

2010 - 23

2009 - 8

2008 - 7

2007 - 1

2006 - 23

2005 - 2

2004 - 19

2003 - 20

2002 - 7

[chad72]

Here it is by points:

 

2013 - 9

2012 - 21

2011 - 28

2010 - 23

2009 - 8

2008 - 7

2007 - 1

2006 - 23

2005 - 2

2004 - 19

2003 - 20

2002 - 7

 

To be honest, I have stopped putting too much stock in regular season rankings given how successful wild card teams have been since 2005. Colts rank 32nd in regular season in run D and are #1 in the postseason in 2006. Giants rank last in rushing in regular season in 2011 but are one of the tops in TOP with their running game and go on to win it all. I am sure we can all find more examples lately. Each time, when the right buttons are pushed, teams seem to just pull a rope-a-dope in an area or two come playoff time.

 

One thing I did notice for the Colts in the Manning era is that we struggled against balanced offensive teams while we did well vs one dimensional offensive teams like the Ravens and Jets in the playoffs. That is why when the Steelers came out passing instead of their trademark power running under Bill Cowher, the D was shell shocked and went down 0-14 right off the bat. It would not be a reach to suggest that based on our results. Chargers and Patriots both gave us fits because they were more balanced offensive teams that could make our D bend and break. Steelers figured that out and Cowher, after all those years of pounding the ball, was willing to change it up for that critical playoff game by coming out of the gates passing the ball, putting our D on its heels, whose momentum they rode to win the SB. But I agree with you, Peyton's record vs top 5 Ds in the regular season hovers around the under .600 mark, so if he is .500 against them in the playoffs where the intensity is higher, it should not be as much of a surprise to those that keep track of it.

 

You can tell with the way a team plays, the intensity with which the D gets stops etc. as to how it has turned it up a notch come playoff time. 9 out of 10 times, I have felt that coaches make their money come playoff time when "do what we always do" is not just enough against the best.

[amfootball]

To be honest, I have stopped putting too much stock in regular season rankings given how successful wild card teams have been since 2005.

 

Colts rank 32nd in regular season in run D and are #1 in the postseason in 2006. Giants rank last in rushing in regular season in 2011 but are one of the tops in TOP with their running game and go on to win it all. I am sure we can all find more examples lately. Each time, when the right buttons are pushed, teams seem to just pull a rope-a-dope in an area or two come playoff time.

 

You can tell with the way a team plays, the intensity with which the D gets stops etc. as to how it has turned it up a notch come playoff time. 9 out of 10 times, I have felt that coaches make their money come playoff time when "do what we always do" is not just enough against the best.

Yeah, rankings are what they are but I think they do prove that Manning had some top 10 defenses to work with so this idea that he has always carried a poor defense/team is false.

[jvan1973]

How dare I go by what some actual players say over NFL Network regarding the list..NFL Network wouldn't dare do such a thing.

I apologize for believing the players over a network

Just because Whitner didn't vote, doesn't mean other players don't. The link i provided said 28% of the players returned their ballet. So your claim that no players vote is inaccurate

[lollygagger8]

Here it is by points:

 

2013 - 9

2012 - 21

2011 - 28

2010 - 23

2009 - 8

2008 - 7

2007 - 1

2006 - 23

2005 - 2

2004 - 19

2003 - 20

2002 - 7

 

Pro football reference gave me the wrong numbers? Pats fans on a Colts board to the rescue ;) 

[amfootball]

Pro football reference gave me the wrong numbers? Pats fans on a Colts board to the rescue ;)

Stats, stats, stats. So many of them. So little time. Glad to help. ;)

[Shane Bond]

The difference is large so that plays into the perception that he should put up the same type of numbers vs the Pats or Seattle as he does vs the Raiders and Redskins. When he doesn't or has a performance like he did vs Seattle than he is unfairly criticized. He is not a great QB vs above .500 teams. That is not to say he has not had good or even great games at times or has never won but he is sub .500 vs above .500 teams in both the regular season and post-season over his career and his stats go from eye popping to average/very good.

Again I think it's quite normal to have a good number vs eye popping when the opposing teams are good.

I mean all the above 500 when they play against each other, it's always close.

[Shane Bond]

Yeah, rankings are what they are but I think they do prove that Manning had some top 10 defenses to work with so this idea that he has always carried a poor defense/team is false.

It's not the defense, I think the worst Colts had was special teams and coaching.

Even if you take the 2006 AFC championship game, Manning will take the team down 80 yards for a TD, next thing you know Brady starts the drive at Colts 20. I mean that was a staple from Colts special teams.

[amfootball]

Again I think it's quite normal to have a good number vs eye popping when the opposing teams are good.

I mean all the above 500 when they play against each other, it's always close.

I don't disagree but my point is perception specifically as it relates to Manning. He is often not spectacular vs good teams. He has good games and games where he plays well enough to help his team win and sometimes loses but because he destroys bad teams and was the first pick with the football pedigree, people think that is what he should to do every team. He simply doesn't. Instead of making excuses for him, I think folks need to adjust their expectations of him.

[amfootball]

It's not the defense, I think the worst Colts had was special teams and coaching.

Even if you take the 2006 AFC championship game, Manning will take the team down 80 yards for a TD, next thing you know Brady starts the drive at Colts 20. I mean that was a staple from Colts special teams.

Dungy is considered one of the top 20 coaches of all time. And Vanderjagt had the best FG's percentage of any kicker in his prime and then you got an in prime Vinny after that.

[Shane Bond]

I don't disagree but my point is perception specifically as it relates to Manning. He is often not spectacular vs good teams. He has good games and games where he plays well enough to help his team win and sometimes loses but because he destroys bad teams and was the first pick with the football pedigree, people think that is what he should to do every team. He simply doesn't. Instead of making excuses for him, I think folks need to adjust their expectations of him.

Well he comes from first family of football, No 1 overall pick, expectations will always be there.

It's quite amazing with what he has done with all the expectations from get go on his shoulders.

[amfootball]

Well he comes from first family of football, No 1 overall pick, expectations will always be there.

It's quite amazing with what he has done with all the expectations from get go on his shoulders.

No question. He has had a fantastic, first ballot hall of game career. But those expectations created an aura that no one could live up to. And Brady getting 3 rings out of the gate has haunted him as everyone thought that would he him and Brady beat him along the way.

[Shane Bond]

Dungy is considered one of the top 20 coaches of all time. And Vanderjagt had the best FG's percentage of any kicker in his prime and then you got an in prime Vinny after that.

I know kicker is from special teams, I am referring to the other 10 players who block, kick return, punt return etc

Dungy is average at best. Personally his conservative nature killed the Colts in many ways. I mean he never went for the kill. I don't know why he is considered top 20 of all time of at all it is.

[Fx Stryker]

I mean he never went for the kill. I don't know why he is considered top 20 of all time of at all it is.

 

Because of social accomplishments not football ones.

Brady had far less pieces on offense to work with then Manning did. That is why him making it to the AFC Championship Game is impressive.

I find this funny because when people turn around and say Manning didn't have the weapons on defense Brady had it is argued to death why that isn't true, and yet the Brady thing is universally accepted.

Did Manning inherit a Decker and Thomas then get a Welker, no question. The DT we see today is nothing like the DT Manning inherited. Everyone likes to forget Thomas didn't even know how run a fade route the first couple games in 2012.

This whole Manning can't win the big one thing isn't something I made up. It's been argued to death and where there is smoke there is fire. The big one is indeed subjective, and it goes back to his college days

Can someone tell me why the regular season games against Florida are denoted as the "big games" and not the 2 Citrus Bowl games, The Gator Bowl, and ignoring fact Manning had the Vols in a position to win the National Championship in 1997?

[ViriLudant]

Is it really an accident Manning has great weapons always?. Did it ever occur he is the creator of his weapons?.

This weapon thing is getting old. Brady was given weapons too. Chad Johnson, Brandon Floyd, Dante Stallworth, Ben Watson etc. They are not bad receivers. And why did Brady shine with Moss and Welker?. Because they are really great WRs. They make and look QBs life easy. Look at Randy Moss 23 TDs in 2007 and how he grabbed some of those passes.

Who were Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Eric Decker, Caldwell, Blair White?. And how many hrs Manning spend time with them during off season?.

There are only 2 WRs who are world class - Marvin and Reggie.

If One and Done is all Manning's fault, all the weapons he had over the years are his creation.

Wow.

Seriously ?

Besides Moss, who of those that you mentioned were not in the twilight of their careers ?

Did Brady not allow Moss and Welker to have career years ? Show me Welker's Pro Bowl numbers before he was paired with Brady.

Peyton has always had weapons. Funny how you ignore Clark's phenomenal play. Harrison from the get-go, then he and Wayne, and then Wayne.

Peyton. Has NEVER lacked a #1 WR, yet I can point to multiple years for Brady: '06 and '13.

Also notice how the FIRST year that Brady was given similar weapons, he broke records.

[Shane Bond]

Wow.

Seriously ?

Besides Moss, who of those that you mentioned were not in the twilight of their careers ?

Did Brady not allow Moss and Welker to have career years ? Show me Welker's Pro Bowl numbers before he was paired with Brady.

Peyton has always had weapons. Funny how you ignore Clark's phenomenal play. Harrison from the get-go, then he and Wayne, and then Wayne.

Peyton. Has NEVER lacked a #1 WR, yet I can point to multiple years for Brady: '06 and '13.

Also notice how the FIRST year that Brady was given similar weapons, he broke records.

I also didn't mention a key point.

Do you that time Brady has in a pocket vs Manning had with Colts. Brady has more than a second extra to throw. It plays a huge part.

Coming back to WRs, except Marvin and Reggie everyone was made a WRs. It is well documented how Manning trains in off season. Brady sure had lot of WRs but just couldn't get his chemistry and they had to be traded.

Brandon Lloyd looked genius with Kyle Orton.

[sweetsurrender]

I also didn't mention a key point.

Do you that time Brady has in a pocket vs Manning had with Colts. Brady has more than a second extra to throw. It plays a huge part.

Coming back to WRs, except Marvin and Reggie everyone was made a WRs. It is well documented how Manning trains in off season. Brady sure had lot of WRs but just couldn't get his chemistry and they had to be traded.

Brandon Lloyd looked genius with Kyle Orton.

But Peyton had both Reggie and Marvin for 10 years and both are HoFs. There is no debate that Manning has had been surrounded by top notch level talent on the offensive side of the ball his entire career. He had James too, yet another soon to be HoFamer at RB and an offensive line that was littered with number one picks. Now if you want to debate defense, ok. Brady had that in spades from '01-'06 but never the weapons that Manning has had save for 07.

[sweetsurrender]

Yeah, I don't want to rehash all that either. To be honest since the SB this is what I have been thinking about in terms of Manning and these endless discussions about his playoff record. I do think Manning is a victim of his own success to a certain extent. He came out as the number one pick with the football pedigree and all and then at times he has played the part of one of the greatest QBs of all time and that has mostly come against average to bad teams. When he has been average and lost to very good teams it is pinned on him more so. I am not sure another QB has been held to a higher standard and part of that was inflicted by Brady who was a sixth round pick and upstaged Manning and we know this primarily happened because Brady had a better team and coach and yet it reflects poorly on Manning. I mean Marino had Elway and both were number one picks and expected to go at it. But Brady? He was supposed to hold a clip board his entire career so getting matched up with him has been terrible for Manning in so many ways and yet Brady gets passes because no one ever expected anything from him so it is all gravy and sunshine. This was on display in spades after Manning beat the Chargers and the media could not wait to ask him about Brady. Didn't even give him a second to enjoy the win when most of them were predicting he would lose to the Chargers. I do think much of it is unfair and the perception is unbelievably etched in stone at this point.

 

My summation - I don't think Manning is as great as we think he is when he plays good teams and because of that he should not be so heavily criticized when he loses in the post-season.

I agree with this mostly. I think it is a perception game. In some ways Manning really can't win. Brady got the rings so early and then Eli got his which has put Peyton in catch up mode. And let's face it, the media loves to rub both Brady and Eli in his face as if that makes him less of a QB. It was bad luck that his career entwined with Brady as you say in some respects.

[jvan1973]

But Peyton had both Reggie and Marvin for 10 years and both are HoFs. There is no debate that Manning has had been surrounded by top notch level talent on the offensive side of the ball his entire career. He had James too, yet another soon to be HoFamer at RB and an offensive line that was littered with number one picks. Now if you want to debate defense, ok. Brady had that in spades from '01-'06 but never the weapons that Manning has had save for 07.

Edge isn't going into the hall

[sweetsurrender]

Edge isn't going into the hall

His numbers are right there. 12,000 yards (11th all time), 80 TDs, 4 time pro bowler, 3 time AP, 2 time rushing champion, rookie of the year in 99, etc.

 

When is he eligible? This year?

[Superman]

But Peyton had both Reggie and Marvin for 10 years and both are HoFs. There is no debate that Manning has had been surrounded by top notch level talent on the offensive side of the ball his entire career. He had James too, yet another soon to be HoFamer at RB and an offensive line that was littered with number one picks. Now if you want to debate defense, ok. Brady had that in spades from '01-'06 but never the weapons that Manning has had save for 07.

 

That does a little to explain why Manning had better offensive numbers than Brady. That doesn't explain why the Colts struggled in the postseason, while the Pats were winning three out of four. To answer that, you have to look at the rest of the team: the coaching and the defense.

[Qwiz]

 

Because of social accomplishments not football ones.

I find this funny because when people turn around and say Manning didn't have the weapons on defense Brady had it is argued to death why that isn't true, and yet the Brady thing is universally accepted.

Did Manning inherit a Decker and Thomas then get a Welker, no question. The DT we see today is nothing like the DT Manning inherited. Everyone likes to forget Thomas didn't even know how run a fade route the first couple games in 2012.

Can someone tell me why the regular season games against Florida are denoted as the "big games" and not the 2 Citrus Bowl games, The Gator Bowl, and ignoring fact Manning had the Vols in a position to win the National Championship in 1997?

I don't see why people are taking exception to the Brady thing. You guys can praise Manning to the skies but when somebody mentions that Brady did something spectacular too this season all of a sudden everyone wants to bring up defenses and things from the past that don't matter anymore. DT's numbers have been steadily increasing since he got into the league, he is developing as a player and yes, I am sure having Peyton Manning as his quarterback has something to do with his numbers as well the past two years. But let's not pretend like he was some no-name guy before Manning went to Denver. Regular season games in college are not the big games in many people's perception; The bowl games are. And being in position to win a NC isn't actually winning the NC. I can admit that Manning is one of the greatest like the next guy but for some reason me praising Brady as well seems to touch a nerve. They are both Hall of Famers but they were in completely different situations last season.

[sweetsurrender]

That does a little to explain why Manning had better offensive numbers than Brady. That doesn't explain why the Colts struggled in the postseason, while the Pats were winning three out of four. To answer that, you have to look at the rest of the team: the coaching and the defense.

I wasn't arguing any of that. I said that Brady had the better defenses from '01-'06 and I would add coaching as well at least HC anyways. I think Moore was one of the best OCs ever. I was simply saying that Manning has had great offensive weapons his entire career. 

[chad72]

But Peyton had both Reggie and Marvin for 10 years and both are HoFs. There is no debate that Manning has had been surrounded by top notch level talent on the offensive side of the ball his entire career. He had James too, yet another soon to be HoFamer at RB and an offensive line that was littered with number one picks. Now if you want to debate defense, ok. Brady had that in spades from '01-'06 but never the weapons that Manning has had save for 07.

 

Facts, please? Only Tarik Glenn, drafted prior to Peyton was a round 1 pick.

 

The other starters - Ryan Lilja (undrafted), Ryan Diem (4th round), Jake Scott (5th round), Jeff Saturday (undrafted)

 

The OL was a big reason why the Patriots could play different styles of offense and stay balanced. Whether it was coaching or personnel, I still felt the Patriots OL was actually a strength for them in terms of balance.

 

I see what you are saying in terms of skill positions that Polian drafted more for Peyton (no doubt) but lets not get carried away ;)  and remember it starts with the trenches before it can get to the skill positions. 

 

The biggest difference between Peyton and Brady was the autonomy that they had at the beginning of their careers (where Brady saw what listening to Belichick and playing turnover free ball can do). By the time Brady became a better QB, those lessons got absorbed better while it took Peyton a while to realize he can take checkdowns and not go for the kill shot on offense (thus turning it over more) in the playoffs. Brady started with a shorter leash than Peyton and had a better team and coaching, that is what I believe deep down was the difference in their playoff success. 

 

Since that 10-0 start, Brady is 8-7 without the vaunted defense.

[Shane Bond]

But Peyton had both Reggie and Marvin for 10 years and both are HoFs. There is no debate that Manning has had been surrounded by top notch level talent on the offensive side of the ball his entire career. He had James too, yet another soon to be HoFamer at RB and an offensive line that was littered with number one picks. Now if you want to debate defense, ok. Brady had that in spades from '01-'06 but never the weapons that Manning has had save for 07.

OL?

[sweetsurrender]

Facts, please? Only Tarik Glenn, drafted prior to Peyton was a round 1 pick.

 

The other starters - Ryan Lilja (undrafted), Ryan Diem (4th round), Jake Scott (5th round), Jeff Saturday (undrafted)

 

The OL was a big reason why the Patriots could play different styles of offense and stay balanced. Whether it was coaching or personnel, I still felt the Patriots OL was actually a strength for them in terms of balance.

 

I see what you are saying in terms of skill positions that Polian drafted more for Peyton (no doubt) but lets not get carried away ;)  and remember it starts with the trenches before it can get to the skill positions.

Perhaps I got carried away with saying number one picks. lol. But are you trying to say Peyton did not have good Olines?

[Shane Bond]

Perhaps I got carried away with saying number one picks. lol. But are you trying to say Peyton did not have good Olines?

Yeah getting carried away is accurate. Do some research with Peyton's and Brady's OL.

Doesn't matter if you have HOF WRs when you don't have time to throw.

[sweetsurrender]

Yeah getting carried away is accurate. Do some research with Peyton's and Brady's OL.

Doesn't matter if you have HOF WRs when you don't have time to throw.

Now who is getting carried away. When did Peyton not have time to throw? 

[Shane Bond]

I wasn't arguing any of that. I said that Brady had the better defenses from '01-'06 and I would add coaching as well at least HC anyways. I think Moore was one of the best OCs ever. I was simply saying that Manning has had great offensive weapons his entire career.

Offense is WRs,TE,RB and OL.

OL has 5 of them. Job of OL is to give time for the QB to throw the football.

WRs catch the football only if it is thrown and it can be thrown properly only when the QB has time and the OL provides that.

Hope it's clear.

[Shane Bond]

Now who is getting carried away. When did Peyton not have time to throw?

Do your research before making random statements.