Colt Fans Before Manning Wanting Polian Out

[unitaswestand]

I am just curious of something, and I would like to see where other fans stand who were Colt fans BEFORE Peyton Manning came to the Colts. I have been a fan since 1975. And I can tell you that between 1975 and 1998, the Colts front office and drafting was mostly bad. Bill Tobin did ok Joe Thomas did well in the early 70s. But other then that, it was bad.

So when I keep hearing people calling for the Polians to be fired, it concerns me because I remember back to what it was like when like we traded two #1 picks to Seattle for LB Fredd Young. Or traded the farm for Jeff George. Or drafting Reese McCall TE. Because, I tell you, we mostly resembled the Cardinals over that time. Once Polian came in, everything changed. All of a sudden, this guys was drafting late round gems, UDFAs that played well, and hitting Pro Bowl players at the end of the 1st around. So the mere thought of cleaning house and bringing in someone else frankly scares me. I think good talent evaluators are few and far between in the NFL. It is much like finding a head coach, only a far less success rate.

So you people who have been fans of the Colts before Manning/Polian came on board, i am curious as to whether you want the Polians fired and be replaced with someone new?

[sfergson727]

I've been a fan since Gary Hogeboom/Mike Pagel era, and have been up to this point fairly indifferent in regards to Polian. However, his relentless standing by to Caldwell, and the same mantra of 'fixing the little things and all will be better' are really getting old. After starting the season pro-Polian, my paitence has worn out. Now I am leaning towards the crowd that wants him run out of town.

[unitaswestand]

I've been a fan since Gary Hogeboom/Mike Pagel era, and have been up to this point fairly indifferent in regards to Polian. However, his relentless standing by to Caldwell, and the same mantra of 'fixing the little things and all will be better' are really getting old. After starting the season pro-Polian, my paitence has worn out. Now I am leaning towards the crowd that wants him run out of town.

Good to hear your response. My biggest complaint with Polian is his undying support of Caldwell. If he would come out tomorrow, fire Caldwell, then I could at least say "Ok, he is doing SOMETHING from his position to win". But sitting back saying Caldwell is doing a great job just drives me crazy.

Interesting you mentioned Mike Pagel. I remember when he outplayed Art Schlichter how excited I was to have him playing. lol

[Coltsman1788]

Colts fan since 1980. I am happy with Polian overall. Like Unitas said, this franchise has seen some very lean times over the years. Overall Polian has done some good things and overseen the best era of Colts football during my 30+ years of fanhood. He is not without his faults though. I think he needs to clean house on Caldwell and his staff. But I am not advocating for Polian himself to be replaced because I have seen much worse. Given his overall track record, I am wiling to give him an opportunity to try to re-right the ship so to speak.

[GoColts8818]

I've followed the team since 1991 when we went 1-15. That was followed by several seasons of losing although they did work in a 9-7 season in there before 1995. Then Bll Irsay died and the best thing to ever happen to this team ever happened. Jim Irsay stopped being the GM and understood he needed to get a football guy in here to make football decisions. He started with Bill Tobin who did get us to an AFC Title game and back to the playoffs the following year. Then he brought in Bill Polian who was and is still one of the best GMs in football. I know this has been a nightmare season and while the past doesn't make this seaosn acceptable it also means the whole rest of the Polian run didn't happen either. Polian should get a chance to clean up this mess as the last two times he had losing seasons here he had us back in the playoffs the following year. Let's see what he can do next year with a healthy Peyton Manning. Despite what some think there is losing without Peyton Manning and there is losing with him. If we are losing next year with him then yes it's time to start thinking about showing Polian the door. If Manning isn't healthy and we have to rebuild then you have to take that into account that they are rebuilding and rebuilding means struggling for a year or two after you start it.

[Colts420]

Polian wont rip his coach in public. I dont suspect caldwell will be around next year unless we go on a winning streak. I dont see our guys playing hard for this guy.

[husker61]

bp is a proven winner. i hope and think he gets rid of caldwell after the season, this season is only getting the colts top picks to rebuild with, so keep him here for now. my big fear is he is giving his unproven son too much control.

[19colt]

I could not bear seeing Manning playing for another team. Would break my heart. I pray it does not happen.

[GoGoColts]

I am willing to give the Polians more time. If we have another draft like 2006, It might be time to cut ties.

[Fatboyslim11]

I am just curious of something, and I would like to see where other fans stand who were Colt fans BEFORE Peyton Manning came to the Colts. I have been a fan since 1975. And I can tell you that between 1975 and 1998, the Colts front office and drafting was mostly bad. Bill Tobin did ok Joe Thomas did well in the early 70s. But other then that, it was bad.

So when I keep hearing people calling for the Polians to be fired, it concerns me because I remember back to what it was like when like we traded two #1 picks to Seattle for LB Fredd Young. Or traded the farm for Jeff George. Or drafting Reese McCall TE. Because, I tell you, we mostly resembled the Cardinals over that time. Once Polian came in, everything changed. All of a sudden, this guys was drafting late round gems, UDFAs that played well, and hitting Pro Bowl players at the end of the 1st around. So the mere thought of cleaning house and bringing in someone else frankly scares me. I think good talent evaluators are few and far between in the NFL. It is much like finding a head coach, only a far less success rate.

So you people who have been fans of the Colts before Manning/Polian came on board, i am curious as to whether you want the Polians fired and be replaced with someone new?

I've been a fan since the mid 60s when Don Shula was the HC and Chuck Noll was a defensive assistant coach. I, too, have seen good seasons - championships seasons and also truly awful seasons in my over 40 seasons of following the Colts. The Colts just don't have an identity because of Polian. heck, we won NFL championships in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. All of this pre-Polian. The Steelers, Patriots, Cowboys and Packers have all won NFL Championships over multiple eras with different GMs and front office personnel and I feel good including the Colts in that category. Our success just didn't start with Polian. Yes, we have had some bad decisions and bad draft choices pre-Polian (you mentioned a few of the busts; you forget the infamous Johnie Cooks). You also didn't mention some really good draft choices and free agent pickups pre-Polian (Johnny U., Mike Curtis, Bubba Smith, Curtis Dickey, Andre Rison, my cousin - Willie Richardson (really)...etc).

Jim Irsay's dad was one of the worst owners in NFL history and Jim Irsay himself was an abject failure as a GM. A lot of people measure the Colts by the 1984 to 1998 era vs the 1998 to present Polian era and either dont khow, dont care or discount anything before that period.

They look at the (limited) success Polian has and think he is the best ever. Of course they are only comparing a portion of the Club's history. Also, Polian built Colts teams have struggled in the playoffs, despite compiling league best regular season records in multiple seasons and over the past decade. His big failures are the type of player he drafts, the collapses in the playoffs, the fact that he has been fired from his previous two jobs (got to be a red flag there) and is only average with picking draft choices if you look at his overall body of work. Would I like to see a change at the Vice Chairman/GM level?

Absolutely.

[tfunky14]

Polian wont rip his coach in public. I dont suspect caldwell will be around next year unless we go on a winning streak. I dont see our guys playing hard for this guy.

I agree, a GM is not going to rip his coach/player for the media to go crazy about. After the season, I think some changes will be made.

[Xfiles]

I have been a Colts nut since I was 7 years old in 84 and I heard they were coming. My dad took me to my first game in the first season, and I was hooked. I honestly thought the Hoosier Dome was an awesome sight(I didnt know any better and I agree, Before Polian got here, it was like the office was full of Clowns. I could hear the Circus music and Horns coming out of the war room during the draft.

[Fatboyslim11]

I have been a Colts nut since I was 7 years old in 84 and I heard they were coming. My dad took me to my first game in the first season, and I was hooked. I honestly thought the Hoosier Dome was an awesome sight(I didnt know any better and I agree, Before Polian got here, it was like the office was full of Clowns. I could hear the Circus music and Horns coming out of the war room during the draft.

And now you can hear the same music whenever Chris Polian is in the vicinity.

[unitaswestand]

I've been a fan since the mid 60s when Don Shula was the HC and Chuck Noll was a defensive assistant coach. I, too, have seen good seasons - championships seasons and also truly awful seasons in my over 40 seasons of following the Colts. The Colts just don't have an identity because of Polian. heck, we won NFL championships in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. All of this pre-Polian. The Steelers, Patriots, Cowboys and Packers have all won NFL Championships over multiple eras with different GMs and front office personnel and I feel good including the Colts in that category. Our success just didn't start with Polian. Yes, we have had some bad decisions and bad draft choices pre-Polian (you mentioned a few of the busts; you forget the infamous Johnie Cooks). You also didn't mention some really good draft choices and free agent pickups pre-Polian (Johnny U., Mike Curtis, Bubba Smith, Curtis Dickey, Andre Rison, my cousin - Willie Richardson (really)...etc).

Jim Irsay's dad was one of the worst owners in NFL history and Jim Irsay himself was an abject failure as a GM. A lot of people measure the Colts by the 1984 to 1998 era vs the 1998 to present Polian era and either dont khow, dont care or discount anything before that period.

They look at the (limited) success Polian has and think he is the best ever. Of course they are only comparing a portion of the Club's history. Also, Polian built Colts teams have struggled in the playoffs, despite compiling league best regular season records in multiple seasons and over the past decade. His big failures are the type of player he drafts, the collapses in the playoffs, the fact that he has been fired from his previous two jobs (got to be a red flag there) and is only average with picking draft choices if you look at his overall body of work. Would I like to see a change at the Vice Chairman/GM level?

Absolutely.

Very nice to hear that from you. Very informationative. Funny, I remember how much I hated Joe Thomas for gutting the Colts. John Unitas was my hero!!! But he got them good again!

Here is a question I would ask you to see where you fall on this. As far as I know and have read, Polian asks his head coach what type of players they need, and he goes out and gets them. That is why players drafted under Mora were different than under Dungy. So is the lack of success in the playoffs Bill Polians fault, or is it Tony Dungy/Jim Caldwells fault?

I will say where I stand is that it is on the coach. What has always bothered me about the Colts offensive and defensive philosophy is that it is very precise and everything has to be just right to succeed. Where a team like the Steelers, you often see broken plays do very well. I believe that Peyton Manning would do great in any offensive. So, I don't think Tom Moore's offense made him any better. I have always fault the team would havee been better off not running the offense they do, beecause it is too hit and miss. In the playoffs, for example, the Patriots would jam the smallish receivers at the line, blitz Manning, and the timing was completely off

[wordofmouth]

Bill Polian is the second best thing that has happened to the Colts in the last 40 years ( OK 39). He should be given given the chance to right the ship not because of loyalty ( although that can't be totally discounted ) but because he has proven time and again that he is one of the best in the busines and is more capable of doing it than ALMOST any GM in the modern history of the sport.

However, and this is my concern, I'm not totally comfortable with Chris taking on the task of turning things around. Maybe he can do it, maybe he can't. Because he's Bill's Son doesn't mean he is the next best guy to take over the team. On the other hand, it doesn't mean he's not either. I guess we will see because I don't think Irsay is going to get rid of them. Someone mentioned that Chris' contract runs through the 2012 season and that would give Irsay enough time to get a more accurate read on CP. So maybe he/they are gone after next year, but pulling the trigger before that would be premature.

As I have said many times on this forum, I'm pretty sure that Bill ran the last draft and Chris was in charge of the last couple before that. That makes me nervous.

[Fatboyslim11]

Very nice to hear that from you. Very informationative. Funny, I remember how much I hated Joe Thomas for gutting the Colts. John Unitas was my hero!!! But he got them good again!

Here is a question I would ask you to see where you fall on this. As far as I know and have read, Polian asks his head coach what type of players they need, and he goes out and gets them. That is why players drafted under Mora were different than under Dungy. So is the lack of success in the playoffs Bill Polians fault, or is it Tony Dungy/Jim Caldwells fault?

I will say where I stand is that it is on the coach. What has always bothered me about the Colts offensive and defensive philosophy is that it is very precise and everything has to be just right to succeed. Where a team like the Steelers, you often see broken plays do very well. I believe that Peyton Manning would do great in any offensive. So, I don't think Tom Moore's offense made him any better. I have always fault the team would havee been better off not running the offense they do, beecause it is too hit and miss. In the playoffs, for example, the Patriots would jam the smallish receivers at the line, blitz Manning, and the timing was completely off

Thanks for the kind words. IMO, Polian does have a specific criteria in mind when drafting a player irrespective of the head coach. One of Polian's big issues with Jim Mora was he didn't think Mora's DC Vic Fangio was using the small, quick players in the right defensive schemes. Mora refused to fire Fangio and was himself fired. Fangio is now DC for the SF 49ers and look how well their defense is playing. I believe one of the reasons Dungy was picked was he wanted smaller, quicker players. That worked out ok in the regular seasons except Dungy teams had a lot of one and done in the playoffs because of the type of players we had vs our playoff opponents. The NFL has caught up with the schemes we use with our type of players and has devised effective countermeasures. Injuries or not, we have looked this year like a bad college team coached by a staff that clearly is in over their head.

The Colts are a finesse team by design. They can't line it up and play smash mouth football or control the clock nor can we stop the run or pass on defense and our special teams is truly the joke of the NFL. Even the players Polian drafted this year are only average in NFL height, weight and size. Some people think this is an example of getting bigger and it is by our standards but really, average at best by NFL standards. This draft class hasn't really shown me anything. So far, they have been mostly injuried, which is par for the course with our players. And how many sacks did Castonzo give up yesterday to a no-name Jags defensive end?

Sorry for the long winded answers but those are some of my opinions.

[unitaswestand]

Bill Polian is the second best thing that has happened to the Colts in the last 40 years ( OK 39). He should be given given the chance to right the shilp not because of loyalty ( although that can't be totally discounted ) but because he has proven time and again that he is one of the best in the busines and is more capable of doing it than ALMOST any GM in the modern history of the sport.

However, and this is my concern, I'm not totally comfortable with Chris taking on the task of turning things around. Maybe he can do it, maybe he can't. Because he's Bill's Son doesn't mean he is the next best guy to take over the team. On the other hand, it doesn't mean he's not either. I guess we will see because I don't think Irsay is going to get rid of them. Someone mentioned that Chris' contract runs through the 2012 season and that would give Irsay enough time to get a more accurate read on CP. So maybe he/they are gone after next year, but pulling the trigger before that would be premature.

As I have said many times on this forum, I'm pretty sure that Bill ran the last draft and Chris was in charge of the last couple before that. That makes me nervous.

Nice comment. I agree that Bill Polian is very valuable to the team. Chris, I totally understand why people would be skeptical. But if Bill is the control freak people say, I would imagine he will always have his input and say into what Chris does. So I wish Chris luck and hope he inherited his dads eye for talent.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Bill tobin was pretty good,he believed in harbaugh and if not for the refs we should have gone to the superbowl in 1995.Polian has angered me of late but he is one of the better personal guy's.But he has done a horrendous job {or is it chris}this year.

[unitaswestand]

Thanks for the kind words. IMO, Polian does have a specific criteria in mind when drafting a player irrespective of the head coach. One of Polian's big issues with Jim Mora was he didn't think Mora's DC Vic Fangio was using the small, quick players in the right defensive schemes. Mora refused to fire Fangio and was himself fired. Fangio is now DC for the SF 49ers and look how well their defense is playing. I believe one of the reasons Dungy was picked was he wanted smaller, quicker players. That worked out ok in the regular seasons except Dungy teams had a lot of one and done in the playoffs because of the type of players we had vs our playoff opponents. The NFL has caught up with the schemes we use with our type of players and has devised effective countermeasures. Injuries or not, we have looked this year like a bad college team coached by a staff that clearly is in over their head.

The Colts are a finesse team by design. They can't line it up and play smash mouth football or control the clock nor can we stop the run or pass on defense and our special teams is truly the joke of the NFL. Even the players Polian drafted this year are only average in NFL height, weight and size. Some people think this is an example of getting bigger and it is by our standards but really, average at best by NFL standards. This draft class hasn't really shown me anything. So far, they have been mostly injuried, which is par for the course with our players. And how many sacks did Castonzo give up yesterday to a no-name Jags defensive end?

Sorry for the long winded answers but those are some of my opinions.

Anyone who can say they used to watch Tom Matte run with the ball or Jimmy Orr catch a ball has my respect!! I never really thought about what you said that Polian prefers that type of player. I thought in Buffalo and Carolina, since it was a 3-4 defense, they played with bigger players. But I never really looked at it like that. Good piece of infofrmation.

I actually put a lot of stock into the coaching. I was fortunate, like you, to see two turns of Ted Marchibroda has head coach. And he was successful both times. What I loved about the 1995 team is that I didn't think they were overly talented. But they played very well as a team. That was truly a "team". And its funny how we talk about Freeney and Mathis, but what about Dutton, Ehrman, Barnes, and Cook?

I like Tony Dungy, but I have always thought he was very overrated as a head coach. I thought he was a far better defensive coordinator. I think what this year shows us is how good Peyton Manning really is. How many rings would he have if he had a Bill Walsh, Bill Belichick, or even Ted Marchibroda as head coach? I read an article by Jason Whitlock one time that said Peyton Manning never had that great coach that a lot of other great QBs had. And I totally believe that.

If the Colts do get a new HC, I hope it is some young genius that can be with the franchise for a long time. Not Jeff Fisher or some retread. Marchibroda is too old now!! lol

For what it is worth, i hated Vic Fangio's defense when Mora was the coach! hahahahaha I was glad they fired him. But I realize now it for lack of talent. They simply weren't any good. They were not Sack Pack.

[Fatboyslim11]

Bill tobin was pretty good,he believed in harbaugh and if not for the refs we should have gone to the superbowl in 1995.Polian has angered me of late but he is one of the better personal guy's.But he has done a horrendous job {or is it chris}this year.

I believe we lost in the 1995 AFC Championship game to Pittsburgh because Aaron Bailey could not hold onto the ball on the last play hail mary pass from Harbaugh. We lost 20-16 and I still can't bear to watch a replay of that game.

[Jaric]

A lot of people measure the Colts by the 1984 to 1998 era vs the 1998 to present Polian era and either dont khow, dont care or discount anything before that period.

You see this for two reasons. The first is that most of the fan base weren't fans before them. The majority of the fan base only became fans during their time in Indianapolis. I congratulate you on your continued support, however you must understand you are in the vast vast minority in this regard. The majority of the fans weren't even alive why Unitas was playing. (Myself included) heck, I was a fan for 5-10 years before I even found out they originally played in Baltimore. (I hopped on the bus in for real in 95 which is why I so desperately wanted them to hire Jim Harbaugh and have so far been proven right I might add.)

The second is that quite frankly many of the old players have made it clear they want nothing to do with Indianapolis. Staying loyal to the city of Baltimore. (If memory serves Unitas was on his way to the facilities with the mayor to take over had the Mayflower not left the night before) Which is fine, that's their prerogative. Were I in their position I might take a similar stance. However, I am not in their situation, and the point remains that it's hard to start a relationship with someone who wants nothing to do with you.

So yeah, not to completely sidetrack the argument, but I do separate the two. Quite intentionally actually. None of that has anything to do with Polian (if a suitable replacement can found, it's time for him and us to part ways) of course. But it's an interesting topic and one rarely gets to chat with someone who is a fan of both the Baltimore and Indianapolis Colts.

And as an aside, don't get me started on those mouthbreathers who wear the Raven's Unitas Jerseys.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Anyone who can say they used to watch Tom Matte run with the ball or Jimmy Orr catch a ball has my respect!! I never really thought about what you said that Polian prefers that type of player. I thought in Buffalo and Carolina, since it was a 3-4 defense, they played with bigger players. But I never really looked at it like that. Good piece of infofrmation.

I actually put a lot of stock into the coaching. I was fortunate, like you, to see two turns of Ted Marchibroda has head coach. And he was successful both times. What I loved about the 1995 team is that I didn't think they were overly talented. But they played very well as a team. That was truly a "team". And its funny how we talk about Freeney and Mathis, but what about Dutton, Ehrman, Barnes, and Cook?

I like Tony Dungy, but I have always thought he was very overrated as a head coach. I thought he was a far better defensive coordinator. I think what this year shows us is how good Peyton Manning really is. How many rings would he have if he had a Bill Walsh, Bill Belichick, or even Ted Marchibroda as head coach? I read an article by Jason Whitlock one time that said Peyton Manning never had that great coach that a lot of other great QBs had. And I totally believe that.

If the Colts do get a new HC, I hope it is some young genius that can be with the franchise for a long time. Not Jeff Fisher or some retread. Marchibroda is too old now!! lol

For what it is worth, i hated Vic Fangio's defense when Mora was the coach! hahahahaha I was glad they fired him. But I realize now it for lack of talent. They simply weren't any good. They were not Sack Pack.

"The sack pack"

[coltfaninnewyork]

I believe we lost in the 1995 AFC Championship game to Pittsburgh because Aaron Bailey could not hold onto the ball on the last play hail mary pass from Harbaugh. We lost 20-16 and I still can't bear to watch a replay of that game.

If you recall kordell stewart caught a td with his foot out of the endzone,right in front of the ref .If instant replay was in effect we are in the super bowl.

[Fatboyslim11]

Anyone who can say they used to watch Tom Matte run with the ball or Jimmy Orr catch a ball has my respect!! I never really thought about what you said that Polian prefers that type of player. I thought in Buffalo and Carolina, since it was a 3-4 defense, they played with bigger players. But I never really looked at it like that. Good piece of infofrmation.

I actually put a lot of stock into the coaching. I was fortunate, like you, to see two turns of Ted Marchibroda has head coach. And he was successful both times. What I loved about the 1995 team is that I didn't think they were overly talented. But they played very well as a team. That was truly a "team". And its funny how we talk about Freeney and Mathis, but what about Dutton, Ehrman, Barnes, and Cook?

I like Tony Dungy, but I have always thought he was very overrated as a head coach. I thought he was a far better defensive coordinator. I think what this year shows us is how good Peyton Manning really is. How many rings would he have if he had a Bill Walsh, Bill Belichick, or even Ted Marchibroda as head coach? I read an article by Jason Whitlock one time that said Peyton Manning never had that great coach that a lot of other great QBs had. And I totally believe that.

If the Colts do get a new HC, I hope it is some young genius that can be with the franchise for a long time. Not Jeff Fisher or some retread. Marchibroda is too old now!! lol

For what it is worth, i hated Vic Fangio's defense when Mora was the coach! hahahahaha I was glad they fired him. But I realize now it for lack of talent. They simply weren't any good. They were not Sack Pack.

Looks like you and I are hijacking this thread with ole time remembrances. I hope we do get a young genius as a head coach who will be allowed to build his own staff of assistant coaches. I also hope the next coach has input into the makeup of the team's roster.

I agree (and you and I are in the minority on this) that Dungy was an average Head Coach with Tampa Bay and Indy and a very good DC at Pittsburgh and Minnesota.

Let's hope we can restore the glory for the horseshoe.

[Jaric]

I believe we lost in the 1995 AFC Championship game to Pittsburgh because Aaron Bailey could not hold onto the ball on the last play hail mary pass from Harbaugh. We lost 20-16 and I still can't bear to watch a replay of that game.

Yes. Before that play however, we lost because there was no instant replay and Kordell Stewert was allowed to step out of bounds and then be the first person to touch the Neil O'donnel pass. A clear penalty.

But the Zebras didn't see it or the Rooneys paid up the right people. It wouldn't the first nor last time Pittsburgh has benefited from officiating in playoff games. (The immaculate reception, the Mike Renfro non catch, the debacle in Seattle, the aforementioned out of bounds nonsense)

I tell myself that all that did was protect us from being embarrassed by the Cowboys in the Superbowl (which lets be honest, would have happened) but still it hurts even today.

[Buck Showalter]

This Guy is still one of my favorite Colts!!!!

[Fatboyslim11]

You see this for two reasons. The first is that most of the fan base weren't fans before them. The majority of the fan base only became fans during their time in Indianapolis. I congratulate you on your continued support, however you must understand you are in the vast vast minority in this regard. The majority of the fans weren't even alive why Unitas was playing. (Myself included) heck, I was a fan for 5-10 years before I even found out they originally played in Baltimore. (I hopped on the bus in for real in 95 which is why I so desperately wanted them to hire Jim Harbaugh and have so far been proven right I might add.)

The second is that quite frankly many of the old players have made it clear they want nothing to do with Indianapolis. Staying loyal to the city of Baltimore. (If memory serves Unitas was on his way to the facilities with the mayor to take over had the Mayflower not left the night before) Which is fine, that's their prerogative. Were I in their position I might take a similar stance. However, I am not in their situation, and the point remains that it's hard to start a relationship with someone who wants nothing to do with you.

So yeah, not to completely sidetrack the argument, but I do separate the two. Quite intentionally actually. None of that has anything to do with Polian (if a suitable replacement can found, it's time for him and us to part ways) of course. But it's an interesting topic and one rarely gets to chat with someone who is a fan of both the Baltimore and Indianapolis Colts.

And as an aside, don't get me started on those mouthbreathers who wear the Raven's Unitas Jerseys.

Just because some of the fanbase came aboard since the team's relocation to Indy is not sufficient justification to ignore a huge part of the team's history and legacy. Why do you think teams have banners on the rafters of their stadium proclaiming all their championships? They just don't select a small time line and say that's it - nothing occurred before that point. That is the basic issue I have with some of the Colts fans. They conveniently ignore the complete history before Polian and only assess the team from 1984-1997 and the Polian period. That's why there is history so one can see things in a linear context. Please don't congratulate me on being a long time fan. It was and is my choice. I promise not to congratulate you on being a new, young fan.I believe it is a benefit to look at the Colts history as a whole. Maybe that's one of the reasons why I and others have not gone ga ga on Polian and his limited success as GM. For us, there is a long term history to look back upon. For others, if they have only known bad times for the team during 1984-1997 and see Polian for more than what I believe he is (an ok to good GM) so be it. To each his own.

You are right, in that SOME of the pre Indy era Colts players disagreed with the move and have expressed their views in many ways.Yes, that is their right. I also hated the move from Baltimore to Indy but in the end I couldn't abandon my loyalty to the team. I celebrate the Colts and their players for what they did on the playing field and for giving me hours upon hours of sporting enjoyment.

[Blueblazes]

I've been a fan since '67. Yep, a long time and have seen a lot of football. I have seen many good years and many bad years. I honestly thought, even during the good years, that Bill P. should have had a decent backup behind Peyton (at least dependable). Yes, you can maneauver the cap in areas with proper planning and still pay the Peyton Manning type contracts. I also thought that we were legitimately good, but needed help in areas we weren't addressing. But I never saw this season coming. Without Peyton, I would have thought we would be 7-9 or 6-10 in a worst case scenario. This does illustrate how we have acquired very few impactful players in the past 6 years. (Not just dependable but really good impactful players). I don't think we have one on the roster that was acquired in the last 6 years. That's astounding. I think we could have actually lucked into 1 or 2 over that time period. But never the less, I think you must divide the Polian era into 2 parts. The first part of the Polian era was very good. The last half was mainly due to Peyton Manning and a few difference makers.

[wercolts]

I don't know why Jim doesn't start interviewing all the genius football minds on this forum to replace the entire staff at 56th street.

[mahagga73]

I don't know why Jim doesn't start interviewing all the genius football minds on this forum to replace the entire staff at 56th street.

thanks for your input,what's the point of posting then

[mahagga73]

I've been a fan since '67. Yep, a long time and have seen a lot of football. I have seen many good years and many bad years. I honestly thought, even during the good years, that Bill P. should have had a decent backup behind Peyton (at least dependable). Yes, you can maneauver the cap in areas with proper planning and still pay the Peyton Manning type contracts. I also thought that we were legitimately good, but needed help in areas we weren't addressing. But I never saw this season coming. Without Peyton, I would have thought we would be 7-9 or 6-10 in a worst case scenario. This does illustrate how we have acquired very few impactful players in the past 6 years. (Not just dependable but really good impactful players). I don't think we have one on the roster that was acquired in the last 6 years. That's astounding. I think we could have actually lucked into 1 or 2 over that time period. But never the less, I think you must divide the Polian era into 2 parts. The first part of the Polian era was very good. The last half was mainly due to Peyton Manning and a few difference makers.

that 67 team lost the last game of the year and didn't make the playoffs but the Packers lost 3 and won the SB because the Rams choked after their lucky win in BaltimoreTHe Colt's would have killed the Packers if they had a wild card then.great team.

[wordofmouth]

I believe we lost in the 1995 AFC Championship game to Pittsburgh because Aaron Bailey could not hold onto the ball on the last play hail mary pass from Harbaugh. We lost 20-16 and I still can't bear to watch a replay of that game.

While we don't agree on the theme of the thread, we sure agree on this!

[Jaric]

I don't know why Jim doesn't start interviewing all the genius football minds on this forum to replace the entire staff at 56th street.

He can't afford me.

[MTC]

Been a fan since 2004.

[Fatboyslim11]

He can't afford me.

Fuuuunnnnyyy.

[Fatboyslim11]

that 67 team lost the last game of the year and didn't make the playoffs but the Packers lost 3 and won the SB because the Rams choked after their lucky win in BaltimoreTHe Colt's would have killed the Packers if they had a wild card then.great team.

Stupid tie breaker rule went into effect is why the Rams got in over us. What was our division callled at that time? Coastal??

[Jaric]

Fuuuunnnnyyy.

You know how teams have been making a habit of calling Bill Parcells when they don't know what to do for advice?

Well who do you think Bill calls?

[Fatboyslim11]

You know how teams have been making a habit of calling Bill Parcells when they don't know what to do for advice?

Well who do you think Bill calls?

The great Jaric, of course - right after he consults with me, one of the original sewer rats.