Pre camp final roster

[Jason_]

Hmmm. The OP's roster was RJF/Hughes, Chap/Kerr, and Jones/Redding.

RJF is nothing special. Hughes did nothing last year. Chapman was not a real presence at NT. Kerr is an UDFA. Redding is in decline.

The only player I feel good about is Jones, and I think RJF won't be a liability. The other players better play up to their "potential" or the run D will suffer badly, IMO.

Yes, you can say that about anything, but there really isn't a history of great play amongst anybody past Jones.

Oh well I disagree with all of that so...there ya go

[Superman]

Here is my guess as to the makeup of the final roster.

 

Good stuff. I'm not going to do a final roster guess yet; I'll wait until training camp, at least.

 

But I am going to list the players I think are locks to make the final roster, barring injury. Like Pagano said, it's going to be tough cutting down to 53, and I think the primary reason is because we have 60 guys fighting over 15-20 spots.

 

QB: Luck, Hasselbeck

TE: Allen, Fleener (I think we'll keep three, and it's about Doyle vs. Saunders; Swoope is likely PS material)

WR: Wayne, Hilton, Nicks, Moncrief (Rogers, Whalen and Brazill will probably duke it out for the 5th spot, and if we keep a 6th, he'll have to be a returner; the rest of the guys will have to make a lot of noise to get a spot)

RB: Richardson, Ballard, Bradshaw (barring injury, of course, I think those three are far ahead of everyone else; the other guys will have to either standout as returners, or fill in for an injured player)

FB: none (Havili wasn't great last year, and has some serious competition, but the coaches obviously want to carry one true FB, so someone will make it)

OL: Castonzo, Cherilus, Holmes, Thornton, Mewhort, Thomas (Nixon, Reitz and Louis probably lead the way for the last three spots, but there's plenty of competition here as well, and Thomas not being 100% makes it a little more difficult to forecast)

 

DL: Redding, Jones, Chapman, RJF (I expect Hughes to make it, but he's not a lock; McKinney and Kerr fight for a spot, Pendleton has a good chance, and there are other options)

ILB: Jackson, Freeman, McNary (Andrew Jackson has a great chance to move ahead of Sheppard, Muamba and Morgan have a lot of work to do)

OLB: Mathis, Walden, Werner (Adongo has an uphill climb, and Cam Johnson should be able to beat him and Studebacker here

CB: Davis, Toler, Butler (Gordy's a fringe lock; then there's lots of young and new competition)

S: Landry, Howell (I think that's it; Davis and Brown probably make it, but aren't locks at this point, and then the young guys will do battle to move into the top 4 or 5 and make the roster)

 

Then Vinatieri, McAfee and Overton (I don't see any reason Overton gets unseated). I think that's 35 spots, locked down. Add in Mathis' spot for the first four weeks, and there's 19 spots up for grabs, out of 55 players. Brutal. Especially at DL and WR, where guys will be fighting for scraps. Camp is gonna be fun.

 

Of course, there will be injuries, opening up some jobs, but reinforcing the competition that's already taking place. But two thirds of our roster is pretty well determined already.

[Superman]

Hmmm.  The OP's roster was RJF/Hughes, Chap/Kerr, and Jones/Redding.  

 

RJF is nothing special.  Hughes did nothing last year. Chapman was not a real presence at NT.  Kerr is an UDFA.  Redding is in decline. 

 

The only player I feel good about is Jones,  and I think RJF won't be a liability.  The other players better play up to their "potential" or the run D will suffer badly, IMO. 

 

Yes, you can say that about anything, but there really isn't a history of great play amongst anybody past Jones.

 

I disagree.

 

Redding was really good last year, much better than he was in 2012. I'm not sure why you say he's in decline, aside from his age. Chapman was strong at NT, but didn't have the conditioning to get more snaps. RJF was inconsistent, but also fought injury. Like you say, he should be better. Hughes, I think, showed a lot of ability when he was on the field, and hopefully he is on the field more. Plus, like you say again, we added Jones, one of the best DL in free agency this year.

 

We need a second NT, and some guys have to play to the expectations I think we all have. But I, too, think the DL will be a strength this year. 

[Defjamz26]

So much competition in the secondary and the D-Line. I wonder what corners will make the roster. The release of Vaughn means there is definitely room for another CB, especially in the likelihood that Toler goes down. Also a battle at safety. With Lynch down, a guy like Dewey McDonald could actually make the final 53, as an emergency 3rd string safety.

[akcolt]

Hmmm.  The OP's roster was RJF/Hughes, Chap/Kerr, and Jones/Redding.  

 

RJF is nothing special.  Hughes did nothing last year. Chapman was not a real presence at NT.  Kerr is an UDFA.  Redding is in decline. 

 

The only player I feel good about is Jones,  and I think RJF won't be a liability.  The other players better play up to their "potential" or the run D will suffer badly, IMO. 

 

Yes, you can say that about anything, but there really isn't a history of great play amongst anybody past Jones.

I think RJF might be the most improved on D this year with Hughes and Chapman close behind. There are a lot of question marks for sure but I think it all comes together this year. My hope is having a guy like Jones brings it together.

[akcolt]

Maybe it is sleepy Brazzil`s inability to run routes and his 44% completion rate that his Homeys should be thinkin' about.  Oh ya, TY 2. ;-)

This is his third yr typically the yr it all comes together for a WR we will see if that happens for Brazil I think it does. We will know soon.

[USAFHoosier]

QB: Luck, Hasselbeck

RB: Richardson, Bradshaw, Ballard

FB: Havili

WR: Nicks, Hilton, Wayne, Rogers, Moncrief, Brazill

TE: Allen, Fleener, Saunders

OT: Castanzo, Cherilus, Nixon

G: Mewhort, Thomas, Thornton, Reitz, Louis

C: Holmes, Harrison

DT: Jean Francois, Hughes

NT: Chapman, Kerr

DE: Jones, Redding

(I have no idea how the DL depth chart will work out as I think we have 4 starters for 3 spots. It will probably be very fluid and changing often with different formations, so I'm gonna keep how he has it as I agree with the players)

OLB: Werner, Walden, Studebaker, Newsome, Adongo

ILB: Freeman, D Jackson, A Jackson, McNary

CB: Davis, Toler, Butler, Gordy, Purifoy

S: Landry, Howell, Adams, McDonald, Brown

LS: Overton

P McAffee

K Vinatieri

Reserve/Suspended: Mathis

Practice Squad: Thomas, Swoope, Tipton, Price, Ulrick, Muamba, Walker

I agree with this 100% as of right now.  When Mathis comes back is when I don't know who will be cut or put on practice squad.

[B~Town]

Really liking this Brazil / Whalen debate . Brazil has a that big play potential but Whalen has to win he's something only Wayne posses for us that possession type receiver . Stats don't lie either when on the field Whalen was a much more reliable and productive player .

[Hoosiernsavga]

Hmmm.  The OP's roster was RJF/Hughes, Chap/Kerr, and Jones/Redding.  

 

RJF is nothing special.  Hughes did nothing last year. Chapman was not a real presence at NT.  Kerr is an UDFA.  Redding is in decline. 

 

The only player I feel good about is Jones,  and I think RJF won't be a liability.  The other players better play up to their "potential" or the run D will suffer badly, IMO. 

 

Yes, you can say that about anything, but there really isn't a history of great play amongst anybody past Jones.

We have the best DL in along time. I know that's not saying a lot but I predict we have a top 10 DL by the end of the season baring no injuries.

[Hoosiernsavga]

QB: Luck, Hasselbeck

RB: Richardson, Bradshaw, Ballard

FB: Havili

WR: Nicks, Hilton, Wayne, Rogers, Moncrief, Brazill

TE: Allen, Fleener, Saunders

OT: Castanzo, Cherilus, Nixon

G: Mewhort, Thomas, Thornton, Reitz, Louis

C: Holmes, Harrison

DT: Jean Francois, Hughes

NT: Chapman, Kerr

DE: Jones, Redding

(I have no idea how the DL depth chart will work out as I think we have 4 starters for 3 spots. It will probably be very fluid and changing often with different formations, so I'm gonna keep how he has it as I agree with the players)

OLB: Werner, Walden, Studebaker, Newsome, Adongo

ILB: Freeman, D Jackson, A Jackson, McNary

CB: Davis, Toler, Butler, Gordy, Purifoy

S: Landry, Howell, Adams, McDonald, Brown

LS: Overton

P McAffee

K Vinatieri

Reserve/Suspended: Mathis

Practice Squad: Thomas, Swoope, Tipton, Price, Ulrick, Muamba, Walker

Love this roster minus Havili.

[Defjamz26]

I think RJF might be the most improved on D this year with Hughes and Chapman close behind. There are a lot of question marks for sure but I think it all comes together this year. My hope is having a guy like Jones brings it together.

 

I'd actually like RJF to take over DE duties for Redding. I've noticed that Redding has really slowed down and his age shows. He gets gassed fast and can't chase down RB's. But it's proving time for Chuck and his DL guys. That's the guys he drafted and the FA's he believes so strongly in. Montori Hughes is a big one considering we traded up for him last year.

[akcolt]

I'd actually like RJF to take over DE duties for Redding. I've noticed that Redding has really slowed down and his age shows. He gets gassed fast and can't chase down RB's. But it's proving time for Chuck and his DL guys. That's the guys he drafted and the FA's he believes so strongly in. Montori Hughes is a big one considering we traded up for him last year.

Agreed I think the D makes a jump this year will be disappointed if it doesn't  Pep needs to be on board as well and put some points up so we can dictate the game a little bit as well. It is tough if you are on the field a lot

[NewColtsFan]

Why can't Whalen be compared to Keenan Allen or even a possession wideout like Reggie?

 

Because he's note even close to either.

 

Reggie Wayne is Reggie Wayne.    Keenan Allen might've been the AFC Rookie of the Year last year.

 

Griff Whalen is a nice little possession receiver working hard to make the team.     Big, big difference.

[NewColtsFan]

  Our DL is one of the strenths, not only of the defense, but of the entire team.

 

I'm not sure why you would think this?

 

Before I say anything more,  I'd like to read your reasons for thinking this, because I can't think of any......    seriously.

 

I think the DK could be a strength this year....   but I don't think it's a lock or a given.   I think this group has a lot to prove.....

[Jason_]

I'm not sure why you would think this?

Before I say anything more, I'd like to read your reasons for thinking this, because I can't think of any...... seriously.

I think the DK could be a strength this year.... but I don't think it's a lock or a given. I think this group has a lot to prove.....

I've known for a while that you and I have very different opinions of the current Colts defense.

for a start, see superman's post #43.

[NewColtsFan]

I've known for a while that you and I have very different opinions of the current Colts defense.

for a start, see superman's post #43.

 

Let me put it this way......

 

Our defense ranked average to well below average in most every major statistical category in 2013.

 

Our defense was 26th in rushing yards allowed.

 

Our DL has no one to rush the QB.    The majority of our rush comes from Mathis and he's a linebacker.

 

We have no one on our DL that any impartial person would grade as great,  or even very good.

 

Jones I would grade as good.    The other players would rank somewhere around above average to average.

 

I don't view that as a strength.

 

Now,  I do think they have potential.    Guys like Chapman and Hughes and RJF will all hopefully be better or maybe even much better this year.    I think we have to hope this happens.    But it's not a lock.     Jones has to deliver.

 

But having potential isn't the same as having done it and feeling good that the group will do it again.    They have to do it for the first time this year.  

 

I don't think that can be described as either a strength of the defense or of the team.

 

As for Superman's post....    my respect for him knows no limits....   but, for my money,  that wasn't much of a ringing endorsement.....

[lollygagger8]

Whalen > Brazil. 

 

 

That is all. 

[BrentMc11]

Whalen > Brazil. 

 

 

That is all. 

I did not know Griff weighed more than Brazill...HMMMM.  

[lollygagger8]

I did not know Griff weighed more than Brazill...HMMMM.  

 

Lol!  

 

 

Griff is he just catches the ball. He's not super fast, super tall, super athletic, he's just decent at all of those things. But he does does have really good hands....which last time I checked was kind of important for a receiver. I'm not trying to compare him to anyone, he is who he is......a keeper!!! 

[BrentMc11]

Lol!  

 

 

Griff is he just catches the ball. He's not super fast, super tall, super athletic, he's just decent at all of those things. But he does does have really good hands....which last time I checked was kind of important for a receiver. I'm not trying to compare him to anyone, he is who he is......a keeper!!! 

I told Coffee the other day...I like em both.  It is hard for me to attack either one...I wish they could both stay.

[Valpo2004]

fine he gets first downs and finds ways to get open, but does he make the big play? can he get yac yards? does he have the speed to take the top off a defense? whalen is a good player, but hes not wes welker and hes not austin collie

 

He's not suppose to take a top off a defense he's a possession receive, nor is he suppose to make huge plays.  But in that role he's been productive when called into service.  And a possession receiver who can get you a first down is an asset.  He's not the talent of Wes Welker no, but he can run the route, get open, make the catch and move the sticks.  

 

Brazil all he can do is run really fast down the field.  He doesn't have the route running to make anybody bite on a double move regularly like TY does.  

[Valpo2004]

I agree with this 100% as of right now.  When Mathis comes back is when I don't know who will be cut or put on practice squad.

 

Lot of options with that.  Several of the linebackers would be practice squad eligible.  

[Valpo2004]

Good stuff. I'm not going to do a final roster guess yet; I'll wait until training camp, at least.

 

But I am going to list the players I think are locks to make the final roster, barring injury. Like Pagano said, it's going to be tough cutting down to 53, and I think the primary reason is because we have 60 guys fighting over 15-20 spots.

 

QB: Luck, Hasselbeck

TE: Allen, Fleener (I think we'll keep three, and it's about Doyle vs. Saunders; Swoope is likely PS material)

WR: Wayne, Hilton, Nicks, Moncrief (Rogers, Whalen and Brazill will probably duke it out for the 5th spot, and if we keep a 6th, he'll have to be a returner; the rest of the guys will have to make a lot of noise to get a spot)

RB: Richardson, Ballard, Bradshaw (barring injury, of course, I think those three are far ahead of everyone else; the other guys will have to either standout as returners, or fill in for an injured player)

FB: none (Havili wasn't great last year, and has some serious competition, but the coaches obviously want to carry one true FB, so someone will make it)

OL: Castonzo, Cherilus, Holmes, Thornton, Mewhort, Thomas (Nixon, Reitz and Louis probably lead the way for the last three spots, but there's plenty of competition here as well, and Thomas not being 100% makes it a little more difficult to forecast)

 

DL: Redding, Jones, Chapman, RJF (I expect Hughes to make it, but he's not a lock; McKinney and Kerr fight for a spot, Pendleton has a good chance, and there are other options)

ILB: Jackson, Freeman, McNary (Andrew Jackson has a great chance to move ahead of Sheppard, Muamba and Morgan have a lot of work to do)

OLB: Mathis, Walden, Werner (Adongo has an uphill climb, and Cam Johnson should be able to beat him and Studebacker here

CB: Davis, Toler, Butler (Gordy's a fringe lock; then there's lots of young and new competition)

S: Landry, Howell (I think that's it; Davis and Brown probably make it, but aren't locks at this point, and then the young guys will do battle to move into the top 4 or 5 and make the roster)

 

Then Vinatieri, McAfee and Overton (I don't see any reason Overton gets unseated). I think that's 35 spots, locked down. Add in Mathis' spot for the first four weeks, and there's 19 spots up for grabs, out of 55 players. Brutal. Especially at DL and WR, where guys will be fighting for scraps. Camp is gonna be fun.

 

Of course, there will be injuries, opening up some jobs, but reinforcing the competition that's already taking place. But two thirds of our roster is pretty well determined already.

 

Regarding Studebaker. . . I think he'll make the roster because of what he can do on special teams. 

 

Lets be honest we didn't re-sign Sergio Brown to be our backup safety so much as we re-signed Sergio Brown to make plays on special teams.  

 

I think with the insane depth we have at WR and the fact that we are likely losing 2 after this year I think it only makes good sense to carry 6 receivers.  Honestly it would be the best thing for the Colts if one of the lower tier receivers like Brazil or Whalen could be stashed on IR.  

 

However if they all come out healthy then I personally think Brazil is the odd man out.  He's had the most opportunity here and has been the least productive. 

[ztboiler]

Regarding Studebaker. . . I think he'll make the roster because of what he can do on special teams. 

 

Lets be honest we didn't re-sign Sergio Brown to be our backup safety so much as we re-signed Sergio Brown to make plays on special teams.  

 

I think with the insane depth we have at WR and the fact that we are likely losing 2 after this year I think it only makes good sense to carry 6 receivers.  Honestly it would be the best thing for the Colts if one of the lower tier receivers like Brazil or Whalen could be stashed on IR.  

 

However if they all come out healthy then I personally think Brazil is the odd man out.  He's had the most opportunity here and has been the least productive. 

On the Brazil/Whalen debate.  You are leaving the post-season numbers out of the production analysis.  One of these is not like the other, and leaves a lasting impression on the equation.

 

T.Y. Hilton 17 327 19.2 64 2

Coby Fleener 11 120 10.9 29 1

Griff Whalen 7 93 13.3 22 0

LaVon Brazill 6 127 21.2 38 2

 

 

Most argue that Brazill has more upside and Whalen has better production, but what Brazill does for an offense is much more valuable right now, as is.  He has to be defended at every level of the defense.  You can get any number of players to replicate what Whalen does, but teams invest in players like Brazill.

 

If Whalen makes it, it will be due to a character issue with Rogers or Brazill (or both) not because of production.

[Coffeedrinker]

On the Brazil/Whalen debate.  You are leaving the post-season numbers out of the production analysis.  One of these is not like the other, and leaves a lasting impression on the equation.

 

T.Y. Hilton 17 327 19.2 64 2

Coby Fleener 11 120 10.9 29 1

Griff Whalen 7 93 13.3 22 0

LaVon Brazill 6 127 21.2 38 2

 

 

Most argue that Brazill has more upside and Whalen has better production, but what Brazill does for an offense is much more valuable right now, as is.  He has to be defended at every level of the defense.  You can get any number of players to replicate what Whalen does, but teams invest in players like Brazill.

 

If Whalen makes it, it will be due to a character issue with Rogers or Brazill (or both) not because of production.

The bolded part is complete nonsense.  The thing that has been proven throughout the years is for a WR... you can't teach hands and you can't teach route running.  Coaches think they can and that is why they take guys like DHB and Donnie Avery and numerous other receivers thru-out the years that had the measurables and the speed and the "upside" and after a few years they are out of the NFL or signing one year "prove yourself" contracts.  I haven't noticed an issue with Brazill's hands being bad but his route running is average at best.

 

Again, I'm kind of like Brent MC11... I like them both... I think Whalen is the better receiver but to suggest Brazill is a unique talent is inaccurate at best.  There are hundreds on PS players and NFL hopefuls that have speed but can't put it all together enough to make a success in the NFL.

[ztboiler]

The bolded part is complete nonsense.  The thing that has been proven throughout the years is for a WR... you can't teach hands and you can't teach route running.  Coaches think they can and that is why they take guys like DHB and Donnie Avery and numerous other receivers thru-out the years that had the measurables and the speed and the "upside" and after a few years they are out of the NFL or signing one year "prove yourself" contracts.  I haven't noticed an issue with Brazill's hands being bad but his route running is average at best.

 

Again, I'm kind of like Brent MC11... I like them both... I think Whalen is the better receiver but to suggest Brazill is a unique talent is inaccurate at best.  There are hundreds on PS players and NFL hopefuls that have speed but can't put it all together enough to make a success in the NFL.

 

I love Whalen and all that he is and can do.  Yes, he does some things that you can't teach - but that doesn't change the reality that those things are in plentiful supply among players with his average athletic ability.  He does those things well enough that he'll bounce on and off rosters for a few more years.  Nice player, and few ever accomplish what he already has.

 

You can call it nonsense, but that is the behavioral pattern of roster decisions in the NFL for receivers that struggle to get separation and don't have size or speed.

[Valpo2004]

On the Brazil/Whalen debate.  You are leaving the post-season numbers out of the production analysis.  One of these is not like the other, and leaves a lasting impression on the equation.

 

T.Y. Hilton 17 327 19.2 64 2

Coby Fleener 11 120 10.9 29 1

Griff Whalen 7 93 13.3 22 0

LaVon Brazill 6 127 21.2 38 2

 

 

Most argue that Brazill has more upside and Whalen has better production, but what Brazill does for an offense is much more valuable right now, as is.  He has to be defended at every level of the defense.  You can get any number of players to replicate what Whalen does, but teams invest in players like Brazill.

 

If Whalen makes it, it will be due to a character issue with Rogers or Brazill (or both) not because of production.

 

You are making too big of a deal out of a small difference in yardage via a small sample size.  

 

The reason people don't count playoffs is the sample size is too small.  If you are talking about playoff games this year it was 2 games.  

 

Brazil has been with us for 2 seasons now.  

 

He played in 10 games last year.  12 catches for 161 yards, 7 first downs.  In 9 games Whalen has 24 catches for 259 yards and 14 first downs.  

 

I'm sorry but over the course of a season he doesn't match up.  

[BrentMc11]

The bolded part is complete nonsense.  The thing that has been proven throughout the years is for a WR... you can't teach hands and you can't teach route running.  Coaches think they can and that is why they take guys like DHB and Donnie Avery and numerous other receivers thru-out the years that had the measurables and the speed and the "upside" and after a few years they are out of the NFL or signing one year "prove yourself" contracts.  I haven't noticed an issue with Brazill's hands being bad but his route running is average at best.

 

Again, I'm kind of like Brent MC11... I like them both... I think Whalen is the better receiver but to suggest Brazill is a unique talent is inaccurate at best.  There are hundreds on PS players and NFL hopefuls that have speed but can't put it all together enough to make a success in the NFL.

One thing we have not discussed is blocking.  Brazill loves contact and does an exceptional job.

 

Whalen also can block, but is not as physical as Brazill.  He does, however get the job done IMO....Still like em both...

[ztboiler]

You are making too big of a deal out of a small difference in yardage via a small sample size.  

 

The reason people don't count playoffs is the sample size is too small.  If you are talking about playoff games this year it was 2 games.  

 

Brazil has been with us for 2 seasons now.  

 

He played in 10 games last year.  12 catches for 161 yards, 7 first downs.  In 9 games Whalen has 24 catches for 259 yards and 14 first downs.  

 

I'm sorry but over the course of a season he doesn't match up.  

 

"People" may not count playoffs in career statistics - for obvious reasons - but we can be sure that Teams do.  Playoffs are played against the best competition in the league.  Production matters in that environment and the production that Brazill tallied in limited opportunities was noteworthy in the playoffs.

 

It took awhile for Brazill to be worked back into the rotation after his suspension, and he always had limited snaps, so regular season production measures are just as flawed as the limited sample size of post-season stats in this particular case.

[Devildog]

I think it would be beneficial for us to keep both Brazill and Whalen. Unrealistic? Yes. Impossible? No.

[Superman]

Regarding Studebaker. . . I think he'll make the roster because of what he can do on special teams. 

 

Lets be honest we didn't re-sign Sergio Brown to be our backup safety so much as we re-signed Sergio Brown to make plays on special teams.  

 

I think with the insane depth we have at WR and the fact that we are likely losing 2 after this year I think it only makes good sense to carry 6 receivers.  Honestly it would be the best thing for the Colts if one of the lower tier receivers like Brazil or Whalen could be stashed on IR.  

 

However if they all come out healthy then I personally think Brazil is the odd man out.  He's had the most opportunity here and has been the least productive. 

 

Just going off of patterns, I think we'll keep five receivers. Because of the depth at the position, we might keep six, especially if one of the vets isn't 100% in Week 1. It's not impossible, but ideally, we'd carry five. And if we did carry six, one of them would have to be a standout return man, I think. And that can't be Moncrief, because he's locked in already.

 

Studebaker and Brown are really good special teams players, but there are guys on the roster right now that know their only shot at making the team is to beat players like Studebaker and Brown on special teams. I think Brown is very likely to make the roster; he's been around for a couple years and is one of the best gunners in the league. Studebaker, I think, can be beaten by Adongo, who is tailor made for kick and punt coverage, I think. And Cam Johnson is, theoretically, a better pass rusher. Hot competition there, IMO.

[HtownColt]

Cox beats out Price easily

[jvan1973]

I think it would be beneficial for us to keep both Brazill and Whalen. Unrealistic? Yes. Impossible? No.

one of rogers, whalen or brazil have to go

[Jason_]

Let me put it this way......

 

Our defense ranked average to well below average in most every major statistical category in 2013.

 

Our defense was 26th in rushing yards allowed.

 

Our DL has no one to rush the QB.    The majority of our rush comes from Mathis and he's a linebacker.

 

 

The pass rush point is something I'd frankly expect from someone much less knowledgeable on the differences between the 3-4 and 4-3.  That having been said, this point is also not at all true.  Last year, our DL ranked average to slightly above average in overall pass rush productivity in comparison to all 3-4 teams, and that was without Jones.  So our "rush" doesn't come just from Mathis, but he does have the overwhelming majority of the sacks.  However, that's not so much a bad thing as it is the way our defense is designed.  It's pretty much setup to put the RushLB in the best position to make a play on the QB.  Look at the sack numbers for Baltimore last year.  You'll see a handful or so of players with 3-5 sacks each, but then you'll see a combined ~18-20 sacks shared between Dumerville and Suggs.  So the one argument you could make is that they have a better 1-2 punch with Dumverville-Suggs but hopefully Werner will make a big jump this year (which I think he will) and I'm also excited to see what Newsome can do.

 

All that said, you've also missed where Redding (4.5), Jones (4) and RJF (2.5) combined for 11 sacks last year and that's with RJF having missed quite a bit of time due to injury.  He was on pace, had he played all 16 games, to also be in that 4-5 sack range.  If you expect more than 4-5 sacks out of any of our individual DL guys then that's simply an unrealistic expectation on your part that's never going to come to fruition as long as the colts keep playing this style of defense.

 

As for the run defense, yes it was certainly not great.  However in that regard and in terms of the DL, I thought Franklin was the weakest link.  Chapman was far more stout against the run than Franklin was so moving him into the starting lineup this year should help to improve the overall run defense.  Aside from that, I felt a lot of the poor run defense was due to poor play from the ILB's and Safeties and not the DL.

[BrentMc11]

Cox beats out Price easily

Not easily H-town.....there is a reason Price was with the team all of last year.  

 

Price is stronger and bigger...and has played against TY and the boys...gotta make him better.  We shall see.  I am rooting for anyone who can make things happen!!.  

[Coffeedrinker]

one of rogers, whalen or brazil have to go

I believe the only one still eligible for the practice squad would be Rogers and since he got some exposure in big games last year I don't know if he'd last.

[NewColtsFan]

The pass rush point is something I'd frankly expect from someone much less knowledgeable on the differences between the 3-4 and 4-3.  That having been said, this point is also not at all true.  Last year, our DL ranked average to slightly above average in overall pass rush productivity in comparison to all 3-4 teams, and that was without Jones.  So our "rush" doesn't come just from Mathis, but he does have the overwhelming majority of the sacks.  However, that's not so much a bad thing as it is the way our defense is designed.  It's pretty much setup to put the RushLB in the best position to make a play on the QB.  Look at the sack numbers for Baltimore last year.  You'll see a handful or so of players with 3-5 sacks each, but then you'll see a combined ~18-20 sacks shared between Dumerville and Suggs.  So the one argument you could make is that they have a better 1-2 punch with Dumverville-Suggs but hopefully Werner will make a big jump this year (which I think he will) and I'm also excited to see what Newsome can do.

 

All that said, you've also missed where Redding (4.5), Jones (4) and RJF (2.5) combined for 11 sacks last year and that's with RJF having missed quite a bit of time due to injury.  He was on pace, had he played all 16 games, to also be in that 4-5 sack range.  If you expect more than 4-5 sacks out of any of our individual DL guys then that's simply an unrealistic expectation on your part that's never going to come to fruition as long as the colts keep playing this style of defense.

 

As for the run defense, yes it was certainly not great.  However in that regard and in terms of the DL, I thought Franklin was the weakest link.  Chapman was far more stout against the run than Franklin was so moving him into the starting lineup this year should help to improve the overall run defense.  Aside from that, I felt a lot of the poor run defense was due to poor play from the ILB's and Safeties and not the DL.

 

Robert Mathis' 19.5 sacks last year was the highest percentage of a team's total sacks than any other one player had for their team.

 

I think his number was roughly 46% of the Colts sacks.

 

No other player had a higher percentage of his teams total sacks than did Mathis.

 

Conclusion,  we're a one trick pony.    Stop Mathis and you there's not going to be much of a pass rush.  You're allowed to have a good pass rusher opposite Mathis.    It's not written anywhere that we can't.   And you can have a good pass rusher on the DL, as Texas has with Watt and SF has with Justin Smith and NE had with Richard Seymour...

 

And if you're under the impression that a 3-4 defense is not allowed to have a good pass rush,  you're mistaken.

 

And I'd add this.....   if we're getting a good pass rush,  we're certainly not doing a good job of stopping the run.

 

So, between our pass rush (however you want to grade it) and our lack of ability to stop the run,  I don't see where the DL unit is all that great?!?      What do they do that's so special?

 

Leaving out QB, where Luck/Hasselbeck are a very good unit,  then I'd say WR is the best unit on the team.    And since Mathis plays LB and not DE,  I'd say LB is a better unit than the DL...

 

I've yet to see an argument put forth by anyone that supports the idea that our DL unit is a strength of this team.    Frankly, I hope the next two drafts we take players high enough to strengthen our DL unit along with all other units on the defensive side of the ball.    

[Coffeedrinker]

Robert Mathis' 19.5 sacks last year was the highest percentage of a team's total sacks than any other one player had for their team.

 

I think his number was roughly 46% of the Colts sacks.

 

No other player had a higher percentage of his teams total sacks than did Mathis.

 

Conclusion,  we're a one trick pony.    Stop Mathis and you there's not going to be much of a pass rush.  You're allowed to have a good pass rusher opposite Mathis.    It's not written anywhere that we can't.   And you can have a good pass rusher on the DL, as Texas has with Watt and SF has with Justin Smith and NE had with Richard Seymour...

 

And if you're under the impression that a 3-4 defense is not allowed to have a good pass rush,  you're mistaken.

 

And I'd add this.....   if we're getting a good pass rush,  we're certainly not doing a good job of stopping the run.

 

So, between our pass rush (however you want to grade it) and our lack of ability to stop the run,  I don't see where the DL unit is all that great?!?      What do they do that's so special?

 

Leaving out QB, where Luck/Hasselbeck are a very good unit,  then I'd say WR is the best unit on the team.    And since Mathis plays LB and not DE,  I'd say LB is a better unit than the DL...

 

I've yet to see an argument put forth by anyone that supports the idea that our DL unit is a strength of this team.    Frankly, I hope the next two drafts we take players high enough to strengthen our DL unit along with all other units on the defensive side of the ball.    

They are because I say they are.

 

How's that?

 

I think they have the potential to be good.  I think the signing of Jones and Jackson (DQ) will make the entire front 7 better.  But I do agree, most of the other players (outside of Mathis and Freeman) have shown flashes but nothing consistent enough to say this will be a good unit.

[DougDew]

As far as the DL, I'm confining my comments to the OP's roster and whether or not I can say the DL will be improved from last year. 

 

Kerr is an UDFA.  How anybody can have any faith in him doing more than Franklin did last year, at this point, I don't understand.

 

Redding, good or average now, is getting older and will likely have snaps more limited.

 

Does Hughes get more snaps?  He showed nothing last year to say he is anything other than a project.

 

RJF is decent.  A good signing and worth the money.  But he's getting paid like a non probowler and plays like one.

 

Chapman didn't show that he was much of a presence at NT really. 

 

As I said, IF the youngsters play to their potential, yes the DL is good. 

 

Frankly...I don't see any real reason to expect the defense to be markedly better than last year's defense.  It was a poor defense last year.....and the first three round draft picks went for offense....and we lost Bethea with no real evidence of an adequate replacement.

 

Jones and DQ should help.  But I don't think those two are capable of putting us into top 15 status .......without the improvement in the youngsters.

[NewColtsFan]

The pass rush point is something I'd frankly expect from someone much less knowledgeable on the differences between the 3-4 and 4-3.  That having been said, this point is also not at all true.  Last year, our DL ranked average to slightly above average in overall pass rush productivity in comparison to all 3-4 teams, and that was without Jones.  So our "rush" doesn't come just from Mathis, but he does have the overwhelming majority of the sacks.  However, that's not so much a bad thing as it is the way our defense is designed.  It's pretty much setup to put the RushLB in the best position to make a play on the QB.  Look at the sack numbers for Baltimore last year.  You'll see a handful or so of players with 3-5 sacks each, but then you'll see a combined ~18-20 sacks shared between Dumerville and Suggs.  So the one argument you could make is that they have a better 1-2 punch with Dumverville-Suggs but hopefully Werner will make a big jump this year (which I think he will) and I'm also excited to see what Newsome can do.

 

All that said, you've also missed where Redding (4.5), Jones (4) and RJF (2.5) combined for 11 sacks last year and that's with RJF having missed quite a bit of time due to injury.  He was on pace, had he played all 16 games, to also be in that 4-5 sack range.  If you expect more than 4-5 sacks out of any of our individual DL guys then that's simply an unrealistic expectation on your part that's never going to come to fruition as long as the colts keep playing this style of defense.

 

As for the run defense, yes it was certainly not great.  However in that regard and in terms of the DL, I thought Franklin was the weakest link.  Chapman was far more stout against the run than Franklin was so moving him into the starting lineup this year should help to improve the overall run defense.  Aside from that, I felt a lot of the poor run defense was due to poor play from the ILB's and Safeties and not the DL.

 

Jason.....

 

I want to make another post here to stress a point I made earlier.....

 

I think this group has potential....

 

I just want to see it.     My comments about not being a strength refer to right now -- today, June 20 -- but not down the road.

 

I would not rule out the group having a good year.    Perhaps they'll have a good season.    Perhaps guys like Jones or RJF, or Hughes  will pop with a big year....   and someone will have 6 or more sacks.    I wouldn't rule that out.  

 

I'd be very happy if that happens.    I just want to see it happen first before I proclaim they're a strength of the team....

 

Hope that clarifies.....