A few read-option plays being added to the offense?

[Dustin]

I remember that we ran probably 1 read-option play all of last season (Luck's 4th down keeper against KC in the Wild-card round). Anyway, I was looking at the OTA picture from yesterday and couldn't help but notice a few plays that looked like read-option plays. 

 

 

Ex. 1

 

 

 

Ex #1 Looks like Luck is reading the DE and then pulls the ball down (these pics were taken in quick succession) 

 

Ex.2 

 

 

 

 

Ex. 2 has Chandler Harnish running what looks to be a read-option play. 

 

Anyway, thought this was just something to keep an eye out for during the regular season. 

[Coffeedrinker]

The 4th down play was not a read option.

[coltsfanmilyman]

I think Luck has the frame to be able to run the read option, and while putting a few plays in there for good measure is definitely a good thing, lets use the boys other tools.  Please use more than just his athletic ability.  ala Griffin and to a lesser extent Wilson.  

 

I guess i'm just still not used to seeing our QB run.  After so many years of Manning not running (and for good reason)

[PrincetonTiger]

Looks very good

[CroatianColtsFan21]

I noticed the same thing..

I wouldn't be against throwing a couple of those plays in a game plan, just to keep the defenses honest..

but let luck do his thing, and that's read the defense and run only if the protection breaks down or the oportunity for a big run presents itself..

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

Will help keep the defenses honest. I like it as long as he slides at the end of the play.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

Beat me to it Croatian.

[ProblChld32]

Not a fan of the read option, rather Luck not pput himself in harms way. Wouldnt mind it being used sparingly as a little wrinkle to keep the defense on edge, but hopefully not often.

[throwing BBZ]

Add a few wrinkles to help slow down the rush, our O-Lineman will appreciate it.

Building the Monster O.

[Kyle]

The 4th down play was not a read option.

I am trying to look that play up on youtube and came across this:

 

 

I LOVE GOING TO COLTS GAMES LIKE THIS!!!!  video gave me goosebumps while sitting at home even.

[lollygagger8]

Luck can do this with his legs......

 

LET THE MAN RUN!! 

[Bravo]

Maybe a part of our "Score first" offense

[OffensivelyPC]

Didn't we run the read-option last year?

[Dustin]

Didn't we run the read-option last year?

 

Just once from what i remember.

[Larry Horseman]

The 4th down play was not a read option.

 

Not this debate again.

 

It was either a read option or a fake read option (i.e., he was never going to hand it off but the play was carried out as a read option; the DE was not blocked). I don't see how you can know with a 100% certainty that it was not a read option. I have watched the play so many times and still am not sure. 

[Superman]

Not this debate again.

It was either a read option or a fake read option (i.e., he was never going to hand it off but the play was carried out as a read option; the DE was not blocked). I don't see how you can know with a 100% certainty that it was not a read option. I have watched the play so many times and still am not sure.

It had every element of a read option play. Whether Luck ever intended to hand it off really doesn't matter, IMO. The entire point of read option is misdirection. I also find it strange that anyone would dogmatically insist that the play was not read option.

[Coffeedrinker]

Not this debate again.

 

It was either a read option or a fake read option (i.e., he was never going to hand it off but the play was carried out as a read option; the DE was not blocked). I don't see how you can know with a 100% certainty that it was not a read option. I have watched the play so many times and still am not sure. 

Two main reasons.  One there was no time to make a read and choose an option.  But it's mainly based on Rogers.  If it had been a read option then Rogers should have done 1 of two things... he would have ran a route to pull the defender away or he would have positioned himself between the CB and the ball.  If there was a chance that Luck would be running to his side he would have NOT done what he did, which was take a couple of steps and stop.  Then when he sees Luck running he makes a Half hearted (although a typical effort for a WR) to block the CB, who fortunately was more interested in trying to take a shot at Rogers than following the action on the field.

 

I readily admit, I may be wrong but to me it looked like Luck made his decision presnap and nobody seemed to know he was going to keep the ball.

[HtownColt]

OLB is unblocked and Lucks eyes(well helmet from the camera angle) is on the OLB from the snap. OLB crashes down which equals a keep read and Luck is off to the races.

Just a normal read option play, the quicker the OLB decides he is going to crash down the quicker the read is for Luck that's why he made the decision so quickly.

[Coffeedrinker]

It had every element of a read option play. Whether Luck ever intended to hand it off really doesn't matter, IMO. The entire point of read option is misdirection. I also find it strange that anyone would dogmatically insist that the play was not read option.

If Luck never intended to hand-off then what is the difference between a read-option and a fake hand-off?

[Coffeedrinker]

OLB is unblocked and Lucks eyes(well helmet from the camera angle) is on the OLB from the snap. OLB crashes down which equals a keep read and Luck is off to the races.

Just a normal read option play, the quicker the OLB decides he is going to crash down the quicker the read is for Luck that's why he made the decision so quickly.

You can't tell where he is looking.

[Superman]

Not a fan of the read option, rather Luck not pput himself in harms way. Wouldnt mind it being used sparingly as a little wrinkle to keep the defense on edge, but hopefully not often.

 

I kind of disagree with the idea that letting your QB run puts him in harm's way. Or I should say, I don't think it's any more dangerous for the QB to get hit in the pocket than it is for him to get hit while running with the ball. If he gets hit in the pocket, there's a possibility that he's buried under three or four 300 pound linemen. If he gets hit on a read option, he's getting tackled by one guy, if he gets tackled at all, because he can still slide or get out of bounds. 

 

I agree that it should be done sparingly, but the idea that it's dangerous to let your QB run -- especially a guy built like Luck -- is kind of outdated, to me.

[Superman]

If Luck never intended to hand-off then what is the difference between a read-option and a fake hand-off?

 

The read.

 

Why have an unblocked defender to read, if the read doesn't matter?

 

You mentioned Rogers not running a route. If it's a strongside run the whole time, why would Rogers be at all interested in blocking on the backside of the play? The fact that he didn't run a route, that he blocked at all, suggests that there was always the possibility that Luck was going to keep the ball. So I don't get why you say no one else knew what Luck was going to do.

 

To my mind, Luck keeping the ball was contingent on the weakside LB, Hali. He crashed down hard right at the snap, completely ignoring Luck, even after Luck pulled the ball back. If Luck was thinking at all about keeping it, Hali's action made it the easiest decision in the world. It was a textbook read decision, to me.

 

In fact, "fake read option" is a pretty pointless play call in any situation, unless you somehow know with absolute certainty what the defense is going to do (and that's never the case, no matter how strong your gut feeling might be). "Fake read option" would require the play to look exactly like read option, and the only difference is that you're taking the "option" away from the QB, which doesn't make sense. If the weakside LB doesn't crash down, and you've told your QB to keep the ball no matter what, you've doomed the play before it starts. That's why the option exists in the first place.

 

What I don't get is how you take a play that looks exactly like read option, and determine the unspoken intent of the QB, reaching a conclusion that it was NOT read option because 'he was never going to hand the ball off.' To me, that's like saying a route that looks exactly like a sluggo was not a sluggo, because the receiver was never really going to run the slant in the first place. That's the mark of a successful misdirection, which is part of the foundation of read option.

[HtownColt]

You can't tell where he is looking.

....ok

[ProblChld32]

I kind of disagree with the idea that letting your QB run puts him in harm's way. Or I should say, I don't think it's any more dangerous for the QB to get hit in the pocket than it is for him to get hit while running with the ball. If he gets hit in the pocket, there's a possibility that he's buried under three or four 300 pound linemen. If he gets hit on a read option, he's getting tackled by one guy, if he gets tackled at all, because he can still slide or get out of bounds. 

 

I agree that it should be done sparingly, but the idea that it's dangerous to let your QB run -- especially a guy built like Luck -- is kind of outdated, to me.

 

Tell that to RGIII

[lollygagger8]

I kind of disagree with the idea that letting your QB run puts him in harm's way. Or I should say, I don't think it's any more dangerous for the QB to get hit in the pocket than it is for him to get hit while running with the ball. If he gets hit in the pocket, there's a possibility that he's buried under three or four 300 pound linemen. If he gets hit on a read option, he's getting tackled by one guy, if he gets tackled at all, because he can still slide or get out of bounds. 

 

I agree that it should be done sparingly, but the idea that it's dangerous to let your QB run -- especially a guy built like Luck -- is kind of outdated, to me.

 

^THIS^ 

 

Luck's combine numbers were similar to Cam's, and he weighs maybe 10 lbs less, but it's ok for Newton to run the ball constantly but not let Luck every once in awhile? 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

The read.

 

Why have an unblocked defender to read, if the read doesn't matter?

 

You mentioned Rogers not running a route. If it's a strongside run the whole time, why would Rogers be at all interested in blocking on the backside of the play? The fact that he didn't run a route, that he blocked at all, suggests that there was always the possibility that Luck was going to keep the ball. So I don't get why you say no one else knew what Luck was going to do.

 

To my mind, Luck keeping the ball was contingent on the weakside LB, Hali. He crashed down hard right at the snap, completely ignoring Luck, even after Luck pulled the ball back. If Luck was thinking at all about keeping it, Hali's action made it the easiest decision in the world. It was a textbook read decision, to me.

 

In fact, "fake read option" is a pretty pointless play call in any situation, unless you somehow know with absolute certainty what the defense is going to do (and that's never the case, no matter how strong your gut feeling might be). "Fake read option" would require the play to look exactly like read option, and the only difference is that you're taking the "option" away from the QB, which doesn't make sense. If the weakside LB doesn't crash down, and you've told your QB to keep the ball no matter what, you've doomed the play before it starts. That's why the option exists in the first place.

 

What I don't get is how you take a play that looks exactly like read option, and determine the unspoken intent of the QB, reaching a conclusion that it was NOT read option because 'he was never going to hand the ball off.' To me, that's like saying a route that looks exactly like a sluggo was not a sluggo, because the receiver was never really going to run the slant in the first place. That's the mark of a successful misdirection, which is part of the foundation of read option.

To the bolded part first.  That was the point I was trying to make he didn't block at all until he saw Luck running.  The reason is because it's a quick hitting play that will either get the first down or not.

 

The rest of your post makes a lot of sense and as I have stated I may be wrong.  No matter what it was a great call (whether a fake hand-off, a read option or as I believe, a call Luck made as he was looking over the dline).  And I agree that misdirection is part of the read option but that does not make all misdirection between the RB and QB a read option.

[Valpo2004]

The read.

 

Why have an unblocked defender to read, if the read doesn't matter?

 

You mentioned Rogers not running a route. If it's a strongside run the whole time, why would Rogers be at all interested in blocking on the backside of the play? The fact that he didn't run a route, that he blocked at all, suggests that there was always the possibility that Luck was going to keep the ball. So I don't get why you say no one else knew what Luck was going to do.

 

To my mind, Luck keeping the ball was contingent on the weakside LB, Hali. He crashed down hard right at the snap, completely ignoring Luck, even after Luck pulled the ball back. If Luck was thinking at all about keeping it, Hali's action made it the easiest decision in the world. It was a textbook read decision, to me.

 

In fact, "fake read option" is a pretty pointless play call in any situation, unless you somehow know with absolute certainty what the defense is going to do (and that's never the case, no matter how strong your gut feeling might be). "Fake read option" would require the play to look exactly like read option, and the only difference is that you're taking the "option" away from the QB, which doesn't make sense. If the weakside LB doesn't crash down, and you've told your QB to keep the ball no matter what, you've doomed the play before it starts. That's why the option exists in the first place.

 

What I don't get is how you take a play that looks exactly like read option, and determine the unspoken intent of the QB, reaching a conclusion that it was NOT read option because 'he was never going to hand the ball off.' To me, that's like saying a route that looks exactly like a sluggo was not a sluggo, because the receiver was never really going to run the slant in the first place. That's the mark of a successful misdirection, which is part of the foundation of read option.

 

It looked clearly to me like a read option.  

 

I'm ok with the read option being done sparingly in very specific situations as long as Luck slides.  

 

This was a perfect example of when to do it.  Big 4th down in a big game (playoffs) and they use it simply because it's something the defense would likely never expect.  And that is why it worked so well.

 

No one was expecting the read option. . . not the defense, not the opposing coaches, not the guys in the stands, and not the people watching at home was expecting Luck to run a read option.  

[Larry Horseman]

Two main reasons.  One there was no time to make a read and choose an option.  But it's mainly based on Rogers.  If it had been a read option then Rogers should have done 1 of two things... he would have ran a route to pull the defender away or he would have positioned himself between the CB and the ball.  If there was a chance that Luck would be running to his side he would have NOT done what he did, which was take a couple of steps and stop.  Then when he sees Luck running he makes a Half hearted (although a typical effort for a WR) to block the CB, who fortunately was more interested in trying to take a shot at Rogers than following the action on the field.

 

I readily admit, I may be wrong but to me it looked like Luck made his decision presnap and nobody seemed to know he was going to keep the ball.

 

We can agree to disagree, and I value your opinion. I just also don't see your description of Rogers actions as you explained it. Again, I can see where you are coming from, but it also looks to me like the stutter steps sorta goes like he's running a route, and then blocks. IDK, it's all good. Cheers!

[wig]

Two main reasons. One there was no time to make a read and choose an option. But it's mainly based on Rogers. If it had been a read option then Rogers should have done 1 of two things... he would have ran a route to pull the defender away or he would have positioned himself between the CB and the ball. If there was a chance that Luck would be running to his side he would have NOT done what he did, which was take a couple of steps and stop. Then when he sees Luck running he makes a Half hearted (although a typical effort for a WR) to block the CB, who fortunately was more interested in trying to take a shot at Rogers than following the action on the field.

I readily admit, I may be wrong but to me it looked like Luck made his decision presnap and nobody seemed to know he was going to keep the ball.

There was plenty of time to make the read. Once the backer took his first step, he shows he's crashing inside. Every single piece of the play, including the blocking inside and outside it's textbook for an IZR.

[Coffeedrinker]

There was plenty of time to make the read. Once the backer took his first step, he shows he's crashing inside. Every single piece of the play, including the blocking inside and outside it's textbook for an IZR.

:slaphead: It's also text book for a fake hand-off and text book for a QB  faking everyone out and making a play based on the tendencies he studied prior to the game and saw during the game.

[B~Town]

I think some members here just like to debate even when they know they are wrong . I like the read option being used some but don't want to see Luck running the ball a lot either .

[Coffeedrinker]

We can agree to disagree, and I value your opinion. I just also don't see your description of Rogers actions as you explained it. Again, I can see where you are coming from, but it also looks to me like the stutter steps sorta goes like he's running a route, and then blocks. IDK, it's all good. Cheers!

Yeah, in the end it doesn't really matter what it's called or not called it was a great play and the three points the Colts got from the drive proved to be very important.

[braveheartcolt]

I don't think Luck had any other intention but do what he did. And I have no idea what you would then call that type of play. And I don't really care.

[Defjamz26]

Luck can do this with his legs......

 

LET THE MAN RUN!! 

 

We always talk about his underrated athleticism but on that play, it looks as if he can accelerate faster than Colin Kaepernick. The thing with Kap is that he covers a lot of ground because of his super long stride. Looking at the replay, I'm wondering if he didn't have that DB in the back beat already. He started to slow down to slide which is perfect, but I think he could've taken that to the house.

 

But I've been saying for awhile they should make better use of his athleticism. He's big enough to take a pounding but he won't ever have to because he's smart enough to slide. Would be a shame to let that speed go to waste.

[NewEra]

I kind of disagree with the idea that letting your QB run puts him in harm's way. Or I should say, I don't think it's any more dangerous for the QB to get hit in the pocket than it is for him to get hit while running with the ball. If he gets hit in the pocket, there's a possibility that he's buried under three or four 300 pound linemen. If he gets hit on a read option, he's getting tackled by one guy, if he gets tackled at all, because he can still slide or get out of bounds.

I agree that it should be done sparingly, but the idea that it's dangerous to let your QB run -- especially a guy built like Luck -- is kind of outdated, to me.

Yeah and mostly would be corners or safeties who are all smaller than him. I think he would just truck over the backfield but I think they are telling him to slide.

[NewEra]

We always talk about his underrated athleticism but on that play, it looks as if he can accelerate faster than Colin Kaepernick. The thing with Kap is that he covers a lot of ground because of his super long stride. Looking at the replay, I'm wondering if he didn't have that DB in the back beat already. He started to slow down to slide which is perfect, but I think he could've taken that to the house.

But I've been saying for awhile they should make better use of his athleticism. He's big enough to take a pounding but he won't ever have to because he's smart enough to slide. Would be a shame to let that speed go to waste.

.

Yeah, was smart to slide but looked like he could of pulled away. I'd out big money on he could of just stiff armed the little dude or trucked him completely. Luck is a beast! But better to be safe then risk an injury I guess.

[1yrdandacloudofdust]

I always felt like Pagano was the one holding Luck back from running more. #unleashLuck.

[Superman]

Yeah and mostly would be corners or safeties who are all smaller than him. I think he would just truck over the backfield but I think they are telling him to slide.

 

They'd probably go low on him, which could risk his knees. Him sliding is smart, getting out of bounds is better. But yeah, let the dude run sometimes. Whether that's scrambles, bootlegs, straight keepers or the occasional read option doesn't really matter to me. Either way, it adds another threat to our offense. Luck was quick to run in both Titans games last year, and it was devastating to the defense at times.

[Burls' Kid's]

Why not??? Also people forget just how good Chandler Harnish was in college at running the rock. We could let him do some of this type of stuff, especially in the pre-season, just to gauge its usefullness. Chandler has experience at it and did quite well. Yes, i already know the same old argument of never take Andrew off the field...BLAH...BLAH...BLAH. Don't waste your breath.

[OLD FAN MAN]

To the bolded part first.  That was the point I was trying to make he didn't block at all until he saw Luck running.  The reason is because it's a quick hitting play that will either get the first down or not.

 

The rest of your post makes a lot of sense and as I have stated I may be wrong.  No matter what it was a great call (whether a fake hand-off, a read option or as I believe, a call Luck made as he was looking over the dline).  And I agree that misdirection is part of the read option but that does not make all misdirection between the RB and QB a read option.

only the coaches and players know what kind of play it was, we can only guess the way it looked to us. if it worked, they should do it again