Is Mathis truthful?

[BpG]

You really think a pitcher works out like a DE playing in the nfl?? It's clear from that pick he wasn't that dedicated to his diet or workout regime. I mean seriously, it's not that hard to not have a gut.

You say it's about staying on the field, yet above you acted like he used PEDS to the point of turning him from a 10 sack guy into a 20 sack guy....so clearly you thought it was about more than simply maintaining.

And stop comparing fat baseball players to a slim, flat chested defensive end.

 

 

Ok then...

 

 

[BOTT]

Ok then...

So u show me a guy with his shirt on, who looks bigger than Mathis, and a photo of Bob looking rather unimpressive? Ok

But way to avoid the rest of my statement. Was he using to maintain or was he using to the point that made him 2x the player he previously was?

[BpG]

So u show me a guy with his shirt on and a rather unimpressive Robert Mathis? Ok

But way to avoid the rest of my statement. Was he using to maintain or was he using to the point that made him 2x the player he previously was?

 

They are similar in size.

 

You'll have to ask Robert Mathis why he was using. Thinking this was the first time he has ever used is naive. Thinking he was taking clomid (a KNOWN post cycle therapy drug) for anything other than coming off steroids is only something Colts fans can agree on. 

 

The answer is likely, Both. 

[crazycolt1]

 Millions of dollars at stake, inheritance, opportunity and reputation on the line for what? A chance to get a few more sacks and add 7 or 8 pounds of muscle?  

 

Did his wife get pregnant? Nope. 

 

Real dumb if you ask me. Perhaps he should worry about the kids he does have? He can knock his old lady up in a few years when he retires. I don't believe his stupid story to begin with. 

Just for your information his wife did get pregnant. Who are you to be the judge of who and how many kids Mathis has? He has the money to support his kids so what's your point? Do you know him to be a dead beat father? Maybe it would be best for you to mind your own business as far as Mathis's personal life. He made the mistake. Done and over with. Now you can get off your high horse and accept it and move on. If not swallow in yourself.

[Dustin]

Mathis' agent was on Mike and Mike this morning. 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10953485/nfl-misleading-public-robert-mathis-suspension-agent-hadley-engelhard-says

[BOTT]

They are similar in size.

 

You'll have to ask Robert Mathis why he was using. Thinking this was the first time he has ever used is naive. Thinking he was taking clomid (a KNOWN post cycle therapy drug) for anything other than coming off steroids is only something Colts fans can agree on. 

 

The answer is likely, Both.

Bonds, a baseball player, actually looks bigger. And bonds looks much bigger than he did when he was younger, while Mathis looks very similar as he did previously.

I asked you why he was taking them because you seemed to contradict yourself.

And yes, how dare I think it might be plausible that Mathis was taking clomid (a KNOWN fertility drug) to help his wife conceive another child. Would I be surprised if Mathis has been using PEDS for yrs? No. This is the nfl....I would bet most line players are on something. Hell, I wish he would give some to a few other players. But it wouldn't surprise me that guys not exactly known for being brain surgeons would take something like clomid for perfectly legit reasons and not contact the nfl.

[SteelCityColt]

that's what I thought...was just making sure I was understanding correctly

I could never rant at a fellow Archerite

[Nadine]

Mathis' agent was on Mike and Mike this morning. 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10953485/nfl-misleading-public-robert-mathis-suspension-agent-hadley-engelhard-says

 

This whole thing confuses me. How can he be taking this drug because his wife can't. If the fertility problem is his wife's how does giving Robert a drug help that?

 

Anyway, I tend to side with the NFL on this.  Robert knew there was a risk here.  Why not be up front about it?

 

He failed to do that and now we pay the price.

 

Sucks most for us I think.

[Dustin]

This whole thing confuses me. How can he be taking this drug because his wife can't. If the fertility problem is his wife's how does giving Robert a drug help that?

 

Anyway, I tend to side with the NFL on this.  Robert knew there was a risk here.  Why not be up front about it?

 

He failed to do that and now we pay the price.

 

Sucks most for us I think.

 

Fertility drugs are known to cause the woman having multiple children (Mathis has twin boys so this is an indication that they used fertility medication in the past). She has a medical condition that makes it dangerous to have multiple births, so If I had to guess, the chance of having multiple children is drastically decreased when the man is taking the drugs as opposed to the woman. 

 

Not a Dr. (I only play one on TV), but that's what I've gathered from the statement from the Indy Star. 

[BOTT]

Not as implausible as some make it out to be

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Monday-Morning-MD-2052.html

[Nadine]

Fertility drugs are known to cause the woman having multiple children (Mathis has twin boys so this is an indication that they used fertility medication in the past). She has a medical condition that makes it dangerous to have multiple births, so If I had to guess, the chance of having multiple children is drastically decreased when the man is taking the drugs as opposed to the woman. 

 

Not a Dr. (I only play one on TV), but that's what I've gathered from the statement from the Indy Star. 

 

I don't know anything about fertility treatment. I just assumed that if one person had the issue affecting fertility then that's the person that got treatment

 

Don't understand how you have the option to either stimulate egg productions OR increase sperm count

 

Doesn't mean that that's not how they do it. I just don't know.

 

Anyway,Robert is still responsible.  Not sure how he thinks he is not. And losing him for 4 games is not good

[Cynjin]

This whole thing confuses me. How can he be taking this drug because his wife can't. If the fertility problem is his wife's how does giving Robert a drug help that?

 

Anyway, I tend to side with the NFL on this.  Robert knew there was a risk here.  Why not be up front about it?

 

He failed to do that and now we pay the price.

 

Sucks most for us I think.

Clomid increases sperm count in men, if you increase sperm count you increase the chance pregnancy. My question is if Mathis asked the NFL about using Clomid, would they have allowed him to? According to the statement I read from the NFL they would've told him he was not allowed to use it. If that is the case, then I don't blame Mathis for using it without permission. A child is more important than the NFL rule.

[Jason_]

I don't know anything about fertility treatment. I just assumed that if one person had the issue affecting fertility then that's the person that got treatment

 

Don't understand how you have the option to either stimulate egg productions OR increase sperm count

 

Doesn't mean that that's not how they do it. I just don't know.

 

Anyway,Robert is still responsible.  Not sure how he thinks he is not. And losing him for 4 games is not good

 

well to be fair, all of the statements from Mathis that I've read have him saying he was at fault for only asking his doctor and not the league and he took full responsibility.  Unless something after that came out that I haven't read yet.

[ruksak]

It is possible although highly unlikely he is telling the truth. 

Off topic; It's good to see you still posting here. Good luck this year!!!

[BpG]

Off topic; It's good to see you still posting here. Good luck this year!!!

Thanks, you too, cept when you come to CLE!

 

;)

[BlueShoe]

Mathis' agent was on Mike and Mike this morning. 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10953485/nfl-misleading-public-robert-mathis-suspension-agent-hadley-engelhard-says

 

I caught most of it on the way in to work, but will listen to the rest tonight on podcast on the way home. 

 

It is interesting how the agent discussed the NFL allowing alterations to the rule for others. 

 

It is hard to say, but it is appears to me as though the NFL does not want to start altering rules for steroids, because in the future, it could create loopholes for other players. The agent talked about having another player about 3 years ago getting a favorable response for the use of adderall. 

 

I will have more time to listen tonight, but what I heard was a good discussion. 

[Nadine]

well to be fair, all of the statements from Mathis that I've read have him saying he was at fault for only asking his doctor and not the league and he took full responsibility.  Unless something after that came out that I haven't read yet.

 

That's good because he is responsible.  Seems to me that his agent is claiming the NFL is being unfair and that they have a history of making exceptions.

 

Whatever

 

If he was counting on an exception, then that was a mistake too. He does not like people thinking of him as a cheat but, when you are a professional athlete..........you know how the NFL treats these things.

 

I tend to believe Robert because he's never given anyone a reason not to believe him

 

But he made a choice that I'm sure he realized had consequences and now objects to how people see that.

 

He's out for 4 games is my bottom line.  So, he's not the only one suffering consequences

[NFLfan]

Clomid increases sperm count in men, if you increase sperm count you increase the chance pregnancy. My question is if Mathis asked the NFL about using Clomid, would they have allowed him to? According to the statement I read from the NFL they would've told him he was not allowed to use it. If that is the case, then I don't blame Mathis for using it without permission. A child is more important than the NFL rule.

ColtsBlueFL and I exchanged a few posts about this earlier but in a different thread. We wondered the same thing. If Mathis thought the NFL would say no to his use of Clomid to improve his wife's chances of conceiving, perhaps he chose to take a risk. Whatever the reason, he tested positive for a PED and should be suspended. However, what I find disturbing is the character assisination that is taking place here. (I am referring to other posters, not you.) By the way, I am not a Colts fan and therefore not a homer.

[ProblChld32]

I trust his word, and back him %100

[NFLfan]

I've been trying to keep myself away form the forums aside from reading because of the increase of confrontational rather than substantial posting (I'm no angel I know!) but I couldn't help biting on this drivel. Then again this is the poster berating people for questioning the FO/Coaching staff, I believe calling them "armchair turds", then is demanding Mathis' head on a plate despite the FO standing by him. Hypocrisy is alive and well.

I had wondered why I had not seen any posts from you in about a month. I thought you were suspended. Lol.

There is often too much bickering here, which can turn people off. It takes a lot of impulse control to refrain from responding in an inappropriate manner, as some people make such outrageous comments. I have come to recognize those who are confrontational and argumentative and I just skip over their comments.

I am pleased to see you are back. Continue to post.

[SteelCityColt]

I had wondered why I had not seen any posts from you in about a month. I thought you were suspended. Lol.

There is often too much bickering here, which can turn people off. It takes a lot of impulse control to refrain from responding in an inappropriate manner, as some people make such outrageous comments. I have come to recognize those who are confrontational and argumentative and I just skip over their comments.

I am pleased to see you are back. Continue to post.

 

Thanks for the kind words. 

 

No not suspended though I think I hit a point of trying Mod's patience so took a step back and enjoyed the off season by having a little break, I don't mind people disagreeing or arguing with my points of view but when they post really inane/inflammatory comments which they can't substantiate it really gets my   . 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Clomid increases sperm count in men, if you increase sperm count you increase the chance pregnancy. My question is if Mathis asked the NFL about using Clomid, would they have allowed him to? According to the statement I read from the NFL they would've told him he was not allowed to use it. If that is the case, then I don't blame Mathis for using it without permission. A child is more important than the NFL rule.

 

I'm starting to buy tickets for that train.  I think Robert floated the boat (pure speculation here) for getting Clomid approval, got turned away before anything substantial was submitted. So Robert decided t do it any way for his family's sake, and hope he wasn't one of the 10 from the roster picked for the urine sample each week he was on it.  To bad it didn't work that way, and he likely knew he would be disciplined down the road, but felt it was worth the consequences.

 

I'll believe this version until somebody comes up with something much more compelling. 

[deedub75]

In Mathis' statement, he said he asked the doctor if Clomid would affect his NFL drug test and the doctor told him that it wouldn't affect the test. 

 

Now the doctor is say that he Mathis didn't discuss the NFL drug test and that he didn't even know who Mathis was nor did he even know Mathis was an NFL football player.  The doctor also stated that he's a big NFL fan.  Even if you're not a fan of the Colts but your claim you're a big NFL fan, how could you not know who Mathis is? 

[Coffeedrinker]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.  For anyone that is really interested here is an article from Male Health website.  The article also explains why Clomid is not FDA approved for men (and it goes a long way on why I do not like the FDA but that's a discussion for a different board)

 

I don't know if Mathis is telling the truth or not but it's not illegal for a doctor to prescribe it for men and men have been using it for a long time in men for fertility.

[ViriLudant]

When that player switches from a 4-3 tampa 2 DE to a 3-4 hybrid attacking defense? yes. if we were still running the tampa 2 and Mathis' production all of a sudden jumped then I would agree with you that it seems fishy. However that is not the case. This defense is designed to put the RushLB in the best matchup possible. Put an elite pass rusher in that position and you wind up with 19.5 sacks.

Oh, please. Mathis had Freeney getting double teamed on the other end, and never had nowhere near the sack #'s. Now he has no one to take the double team, and his sack numbers go up in his 30's.

Show me other natural instances of that happening.

[BOTT]

Oh, please. Mathis had Freeney getting double teamed on the other end, and never had nowhere near the sack #'s. Now he has no one to take the double team, and his sack numbers go up in his 30's.

Show me other natural instances of that happening.

Jason Babin

[ViriLudant]

Jason Babin

He was 29 at the time, and was coming off of a 12.5 sack year. Not a bad example, though.

[thedude]

If Ray Lewis gets in then I wouldn't think there is much to keep you out of the HOF. It's a just popularity vote. I don't think Mathis is loved enough by the NFL to be in HOF.

No matter what you think of Ray Lewis personally, his play put him in the HOF category. Mathis is not in that category. Mathis is good, but not "all time great" good.

[Poster X]

I happen to have the NFL steroid policy on my PC. I looked up all of the drugs in the Masking Agents section... guess what? Clomid is Not_There!

I looked in the Anti-Estrogeninc Agents section, and guess what is there? Clomid.

Nice try, but fail.

The guy you quoted will never let the truth stop him from making such comments. In the end the whole thing boils down to Mathis making a mistake... and he really should have picked up the phone. Instead he has let fans and his team down. A lesson learned.

[Poster X]

Oh, please. Mathis had Freeney getting double teamed on the other end, and never had nowhere near the sack #'s. Now he has no one to take the double team, and his sack numbers go up in his 30's.

Show me other natural instances of that happening.

Actually Freeney and Mathis most years were pretty close in numbers of sacks, and just because Freeney was double teamed doesn't mean Mathis was wide open to do as he pleased. In some of Robert's early years he started at lot less games... and still matched him. Their career totals are remarkably similar.

Strike two, amigo. One more and you are out of here.

[ViriLudant]

Actually Freeney and Mathis most years were pretty close in numbers of sacks, and just because Freeney was double teamed doesn't mean Mathis was wide open to do as he pleased. In some of Robert's early years he started at lot less games... and still matched him. Their career totals are remarkably similar.

Strike two, amigo. One more and you are out of here.

ROFL

nice logic.

One guy gets double teamed, the other doesn't.

Gee, who should get more sacks ?

[Poster X]

ROFL

nice logic.

One guy gets double teamed, the other doesn't.

Gee, who should get more sacks ?

No need to role around on the floor, man... be more civilized. Cue Charles Barkley. Dwight Freeney despite being doubled teamed at one point had sixteen sacks. teams could have double team Rober Mathis, but chose not to. Again the better numbers have more to do with being a olb than anything. Free range, ftw.

[coltsfanmilyman]

All is said and done now, but after his suspension is served, that man better come out the tunnel, yelling, screaming and wearing his body armor and helmet.  Talk about getting the team fired up!

[Jason_]

That's good because he is responsible.  Seems to me that his agent is claiming the NFL is being unfair and that they have a history of making exceptions.

 

 

 

I  haven't paid any attention to what his agent has said.  I'm sure the agent is going to try to spin it in the best possible way for Mathis.  I was only interested in what Mathis himself had to say.

[Jason_]

Oh, please. Mathis had Freeney getting double teamed on the other end, and never had nowhere near the sack #'s. Now he has no one to take the double team, and his sack numbers go up in his 30's.

Show me other natural instances of that happening.

 

Yes, Mathis had Freeney on the other end.  But who did they have in the middle?  There was only one season that they had anyone even remotely disruptive at DT and that was Booger McFarland in '06...the SB winning year.  Other than that, teams had no one to worry about at the DT position.

 

Last year, we had guys like Redding, RJF, and Ricardo Matthews.  Matthews may not have been an all pro and he may not have had many sacks, but he was decent at getting penetration from the DT position on passing downs.  With these guys, teams can't use their OG's to double on the edges like they could during the Mathis/Freeney years..and I'm not saying teams were able to use both OG's, but they could use a OG on one side to help double Freeney and a TE or RB to help double Mathis.  

 

Bottom line is we have far more overall talent in the front 7 than we ever did during the Polian years. We also no longer play the ultra soft tampa 2 zone on every down.  Playing more press-man gives the DL an extra second or 2 to get to the QB.

 

So again, the scheme change had far more to do with Mathis' increased sack numbers than a fertility drug did.

[Kyle]

 

Actually Freeney and Mathis most years were pretty close in numbers of sacks, and just because Freeney was double teamed doesn't mean Mathis was wide open to do as he pleased. In some of Robert's early years he started at lot less games... and still matched him. Their career totals are remarkably similar.


Strike two, amigo. One more and you are out of here.

 

No need to role around on the floor, man... be more civilized. Cue Charles Barkley. Dwight Freeney despite being doubled teamed at one point had sixteen sacks. teams could have double team Rober Mathis, but chose not to. Again the better numbers have more to do with being a olb than anything. Free range, ftw.

 

 

Yes, Mathis had Freeney on the other end.  But who did they have in the middle?  There was only one season that they had anyone even remotely disruptive at DT and that was Booger McFarland in '06...the SB winning year.  Other than that, teams had no one to worry about at the DT position.

 

Last year, we had guys like Redding, RJF, and Ricardo Matthews.  Matthews may not have been an all pro and he may not have had many sacks, but he was decent at getting penetration from the DT position on passing downs.  With these guys, teams can't use their OG's to double on the edges like they could during the Mathis/Freeney years..and I'm not saying teams were able to use both OG's, but they could use a OG on one side to help double Freeney and a TE or RB to help double Mathis.  

 

Bottom line is we have far more overall talent in the front 7 than we ever did during the Polian years. We also no longer play the ultra soft tampa 2 zone on every down.  Playing more press-man gives the DL an extra second or 2 to get to the QB.

 

So again, the scheme change had far more to do with Mathis' increased sack numbers than a fertility drug did.

 

 

 

2 people trying to state the same point.

 

Red = Fail

Green = Success