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Is Mathis truthful?


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If Mathis' doctor says he prescribed it to him to help get his wife pregnant than that should be enough. I'm not even mad that he was suspended anymore, but all the people questioning his character are full of it. Who cares why he wants to have more kids, it's his business. The doctor provided a statement, Mathis provided a statement, even the NFL's statement supports the claims, even if in a backhanded way. Sure Mathis was wrong for not telling the league or whatever, that's why the suspension should be upheld, but I don't see any reason not to believe that this went down exactly as has been said.

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Do you remember in my earlier post when I sighted this as "plausible denial"?

The substance is known for being used to mask steroid use. I'm assuming this plausible denial has been used many times before, and the NFL typically never speaks on these matters. It was somewhat unprecedented for them to say what thy did, even pointing out that the substance isn't approved for male fertility.

Here it says it all.

From link;

"The drug for which Mr. Mathis tested positive is not approved by the FDA for fertility in males and is a performance-enhancing drug that has been prohibited for years. "

I saw your post, but it seems as if you are ignoring all the ones that have explained that Clomid isn't approved for male use, but is frequently prescribed for male use "off-label". A couple of our doctors discussed the possibility of using it with me, but it was ultimately determined that it wasn't necessary.
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.....and another thing....

 

So what if somebody wants to have more testosterone? Everybody produces it at a different rate. If somebody supplements it, why should that be frowned upon? I know Clomid isn't at a GNC, but other testosterone boosting supplements are. It's not like the stuff is deadly. If one player's body produces more testosterone than another does that mean they should be suspended too? 

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Both sides of this story strike me as understandable and believable. I haven't seen anything yet in Mathis's account that strike me as entirely and patently wrong, so I'm inclined to extend a benefit of doubt for the moment.

The only comment that strikes me as odd is the one where he claims he was taking Clomid because it was determined his wife could not. That doesn't make sense, from my understanding.

However, I would have to admit to feeling lost and at sea with some of the science described to my wife and I in our journey. My head was often spinning from the long list of drugs, effects, procedures, tests, directions, appointments, etc. that we had to go through.

I have no doubt it could also all be easily explained as cheating, and I have not said I discount that as a possibility. I would just say I could begin to can understand "if" he might have misunderstood why he was prescribed Clomid.

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 Millions of dollars at stake, inheritance, opportunity and reputation on the line for what? A chance to get a few more sacks and add 7 or 8 pounds of muscle?  

 

Did his wife get pregnant? Nope. 

 

Real dumb if you ask me. Perhaps he should worry about the kids he does have? He can knock his old lady up in a few years when he retires. I don't believe his stupid story to begin with. 

His wife is pregnant.  The first time she got pregnant she had to take fertility drugs.  It is no longer safe for her to do that so in order to have a child he had to take fertility drugs.  

 

Are you married???  If so, you try telling the woman you love that wants to make another baby "No"...  lol

 

Except that it's a masking agent.

Hmm... What could he possibly want masked?

It is not a masking agent. 

 

Before you reply,  read this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clomifene  

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All I know is that I trust Mathis and fully support him. However, we as fans regardless of our feelings on this must accept the fact we will not have him for four games and rally behind who we will have.

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.....and another thing....

 

So what if somebody wants to have more testosterone? Everybody produces it at a different rate. If somebody supplements it, why should that be frowned upon? I know Clomid isn't at a GNC, but other testosterone boosting supplements are. It's not like the stuff is deadly. If one player's body produces more testosterone than another does that mean they should be suspended too? 

 

There are plenty of over the counter items at GNC that are on the NFL banned list also.  None of the testosterone boosters at GNC are even clinically proven to work.  Also, too much testosterone can be deadly and people will and do abuse these drugs.  That's why testosterone replacements are controlled substances.  If the NFL allowed athletes to supplement testosterone levels then it would need to be controlled some way and that is nearly impossible to do.  Players would just take more and more of these drugs trying to be better than the next person and people will have serious medical issues or even die.  All of this extra testosterone helps make athletes' muscles stronger but it doesn't make tendons and ligaments stronger and that's when you see torn ligaments, ACLs, etc. 

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Except that it's a masking agent.

Hmm... What could he possibly want masked?

Judge not. Robert Mathis has never been caught doing anything prior... so maybe you should try taking his word on this issue. Then read up on the subject at hand, man.

I know a few things I want to mask, and I'll get to work on that right away.

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.....and another thing....

 

So what if somebody wants to have more testosterone? Everybody produces it at a different rate. If somebody supplements it, why should that be frowned upon? 

Because it's a banned substance and has been for years. 

 

I shouldn't be surprised. This is sport, where the fans are blind to their own teams flaws, but they jump on other teams players/owners for making the same mistakes like a pack of ravenous jackals. Objectivity is obviously utterly lost here. 

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Because it's a banned substance and has been for years.

I shouldn't be surprised. This is sport, where the fans are blind to their own teams flaws, but they jump on other teams players/owners for making the same mistakes like a pack of ravenous jackals. Objectivity is obviously utterly lost here.

But I know circumstances aren't always as black and white as "the rules" would suggest. I want to see more facts before I assume to know what has really happened, and I take that stance pretty consistently.

I also know I have knowingly broken rules and laws at different times in my life, but would also say that more than a slap on the wrist would have been a disproportionate response to my "crimes".

Ultimately, we agree he broke a rule and deserves the suspension. My impression is that Mathis agrees too.

From there, I think it is a HUGE leap and a baseless assumption to say he definitively IS a cheater.

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.....and another thing....

 

So what if somebody wants to have more testosterone? Everybody produces it at a different rate. If somebody supplements it, why should that be frowned upon? I know Clomid isn't at a GNC, but other testosterone boosting supplements are. It's not like the stuff is deadly. If one player's body produces more testosterone than another does that mean they should be suspended too? 

You would be on the suspended list in short order.  :)   Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone, Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), Desoxymethyltestosterone, Dihydrotestosterone, Hydroxytestosterone, Methyltestosterone, Methyl-1-testosterone, etc...  (it goes on and on, the list is long!) are all on the banned list.

Nutitional supplements, (like the stuff at GNC, etc...) unlike other OTA and Rx drugs, are not heavily regulated or monitored by FDA.  Thus labels may be inaccurate and contain compounds not listed.  Thus, taking supplements as an NFL player is to be avoided, and preached by the league.  Their policy covers those that go ahead and do though-

"24 (2010) APPENDIX F

POLICY ON ANABOLIC STEROIDS AND RELATED SUBSTANCES-Use of Supplements

Over the past several years, we have made a special effort to educate and warn players about the risks involved in the use of “nutritional supplements.” Despite these efforts, several players have been suspended even though their positive test result may have been due to the use of a supplement. Subject to your right of appeal, if you test positive or otherwise violate the Policy, you will be suspended.

You and you alone are responsible for what goes into your body.

Claiming that you used only legally available nutritional supplements will not help you in an appeal.

As the Policy clearly warns, supplements are not regulated or monitored by the government. This means that, even if they are bought over - the - counter from a known establishment, there is currently no way to be sure that they:

(a) contain the ingredients listed on the packaging;

(b) have not been tainted with prohibited substances; or

© have the properties or effects claimed by the manufacturer or salesperson.

Therefore, if you take these products, you do so AT YOUR OWN RISK! For your

own health and success in the League, we strongly encourage you to avoid the use of supplements altogether, or at the very least to be extremely careful about what you choose to take."

 

The policy is huge, tedious, but they cover all the bases.

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Lots of talk about this on Mike and Mike on ESPN today.  They just had his agent on and he was very good. Even said he has had clients before get suspensions overturned due to "circumstances".   One was Andre Brown who never filled out paperwork and got approval for adderrall and then failed a test.  I guess the league does pick and choose afterall.

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Again: 

 

I could see Mathis getting in trouble for taking this during the regular season, but the off season?? That's pretty ridiculous. 

 

I believe he failed the test in season, sometime in November last year.   Now what we need to see is if someone has had suspension reduced because of 'circumstances'  The only one I can recall is is a player (Andre Brown?) tested positive for adderall and had ban lifted (Not Sherman, he won his appeal based on botched sample handling techniques), but he had Rx, and exemption was applied for and tentatively approved.  I think he failed to finish all paperwork, tested positive for it, but then got paperwork done and ban was lifted.  I don't think there is any other case where punishment was lifted or adjusted, and this is far distance from what happened to Robert.

 

I feel bad for Robert, and I'm leaning heavily his way.  But there's no recourse given all circumstances at this point.  I look for him coming back week 5 with a huge chip on his shoulder.

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Except that it's a masking agent.

Hmm... What could he possibly want masked?

 

I happen to have the NFL steroid policy on my PC.  I looked up all of the drugs in the Masking Agents section...  guess what? Clomid is Not_There!

 

I looked in the Anti-Estrogeninc Agents section,  and guess what is there?  Clomid.

 

Nice try, but fail.

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I had hoped that Robert had beaten the odds (after turning 30 or so) and truly had such a monster year with hard work, hustle and pure determination. But sadly, he's a cheater and a liar. I'm hugely sadden by this.We all make mistakes (i'm a recovering alcoholic), but he's failed such a drug test twice and continued down this path trying to land his next big payday before retiring.

please do a little research before making false claims

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I believe mathis 100% and the NFL and Goodell are just foolish I mean who gives a crap about PED's when most likely 50% or more of the players were caught in the past and they didn't get the suspension Mathis just got the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

 

What players in the past have failed drug tests testing positive for PED's that didn't get suspended?

 

The NFL doesn't reply unless a test fails twice. So, he knew of such failures, but still continued on such a path.

 

as has already been pointed out....this is not true

 

I want him fired and replaced by a real football player. Not a cheater.

 

You want Mathis off the team but would love to have Aldon Smith?  Gotcha...that makes total sense  /sarcasm

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So I am supposed to believe a guy who averages around 10 sacks a year, DOUBLES that total (19.5), at 32 years old.....gets busted for PEDS...but yeah, "fertility"...

 

Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up_zps9dde0b

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So I am supposed to believe a guy who averages around 10 sacks a year, DOUBLES that total (19.5), at 32 years old.....gets busted for PEDS...but yeah, "fertility"...

 

 

 

When that player switches from a 4-3 tampa 2 DE to a 3-4 hybrid attacking defense?  yes.  if we were still running the tampa 2 and Mathis' production all of a sudden jumped then I would agree with you that it seems fishy.  However that is not the case.  This defense is designed to put the RushLB in the best matchup possible.  Put an elite pass rusher in that position and you wind up with 19.5 sacks.  

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I believe mathis 100% and the NFL and Goodell are just foolish I mean who gives a crap about PED's when most likely 50% or more of the players were caught in the past and they didn't get the suspension Mathis just got the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

 

Really? Name a player/situation that isn't Richard Sherman (who won on appeal because he contested his samples were mishandled, a technicality) or Andre Brown (approved for Adderral, but didn't file paperwork timely.  Got busted, and got the ban lifted once the remaining required paperwork was complete and submitted).  League official came on Mike and Mike and explained there is no wiggle room for punishment adjustments once a positive is confirmed.

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Really? Name a player/situation that isn't Richard Sherman (who won on appeal because he contested his samples were mishandled, a technicality) or Andre Brown (approved for Adderral, but didn't file paperwork timely.  Got busted, and got the ban lifted once the remaining required paperwork was complete and submitted).  League official came on Mike and Mike and explained there is no wiggle room for punishment adjustments once a positive is confirmed.

 

You are not going to get any objectivity with a lot of people on this.  People want to blame the NFL and make them the bad guy and Mathis this person who is just being railroaded by the NFL.  If Mathis was a Patriot or a Cowboy people on here would be treating him like everyone treated Shawne Merriman.  

 

More than like the NFL does have a bigger PED problem than what they want us to believe, but that does not make what Mathis did any better.  Like most of our parents said if people jumped off a bridge would you do it too? It is in the banned substance list that every player can easily get to as they have a website dedicated to the NFLPA and it is right there with a simple google search.

 

He had the tools and he choose not to use them either because he is naive or a cheater.  

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What players in the past have failed drug tests testing positive for PED's that didn't get suspended?

 

 

as has already been pointed out....this is not true

 

 

You want Mathis off the team but would love to have Aldon Smith?  Gotcha...that makes total sense  /sarcasm

 

I've been trying to keep myself away form the forums aside from reading because of the increase of confrontational rather than substantial posting (I'm no angel I know!) but I couldn't help biting on this drivel. Then again this is the poster berating people for questioning the FO/Coaching staff, I believe calling them "armchair turds", then is demanding Mathis' head on a plate despite the FO standing by him. Hypocrisy is alive and well. 

 

:rantoff:

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 Thick as a brick. Having heard HUNDREDS off Times to check your meds, me believes this guy just got caught_____, plain and simple.

 Hmmm! He is RICH. Is there NO other way but to take Clearly Banned meds to enhance conception probabilities?

 

 The good news is this is a great way to get him off the field on 1st down. It should strengthen our Run D and get us in more quality Pressure situations. Good for young player developement, this is actually a VGOOD Thing for the Team.

 Hopefully this did just happen to help his self proclaimed very bad feet along with Perhaps, helping with his family pursuits. .

 

So every athlete in great shape (thick as a brick) is on steroids? That seems unfair.

 

I am not are doctor, never taken steroids, and just do not know enough about them. 

 

I do not agree that Mathis is a weakness in our run defense. I will agree that Freeney was. Mathis no. 

 

What I do agree with is this will give others opportunities to play, and we may need that experience down the road.

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I don't get it? You don't know him at all. Not even a little bit. 

 

I personally don't buy what he's selling. 

 

A professional athlete in today's environment ....no way he would take a substance like that and not make damn sure it wasn't a banned substance. One call to his agent and he would've known this. He did know this, the only objective and reasonable explanation. 

 

I know that he has been a member of the Colts for over a decade and I have not once heard any negative story about him. He is always talked about in a very positive light, and Irsay has said several times that he wished he had 53 players just like Robert Mathis.

 

I will give him the benefit of the doubt. 

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I've been trying to keep myself away form the forums aside from reading because of the increase of confrontational rather than substantial posting (I'm no angel I know!) but I couldn't help biting on this drivel. Then again this is the poster berating people for questioning the FO/Coaching staff, I believe calling them "armchair turds", then is demanding Mathis' head on a plate despite the FO standing by him. Hypocrisy is alive and well. 

 

:rantoff:

 

sorry but I'm confused...was that directed at me or to the poster I was responding to?

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I really don't care if Mathis was using, but he doesn't seem to have the body type of someone that needed clomid because he was cycling off and on steroids.

 

You don't understand how it works, which is fine, but the body type argument is invalid. 

 

 

Steroid user:

 

andy-pettitte-yankees.jpg

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You don't understand how it works, which is fine, but the body type argument is invalid. 

 

 

Steroid user:

 

andy-pettitte-yankees.jpg

YeS, but Mathis is clearly a guy that works out a lot, while it's safe to assume Pettite did not. If you have ever seen Mathis shirtless you would not be that impressed.

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YeS, but Mathis is clearly a guy that works out a lot, while it's safe to assume Pettite did not. If you have ever seen Mathis shirtless you would not be that impressed.

 

You really believe that Andy Pettite doesn't workout? Come on man. 

 

My point was it's not about physique as his age, it's about recovering from injuries + performance. It's not bodybuilding, he's not out there trying to be Ronnie Coleman. He's trying to stay on the field and keep his strength up at an advanced age, just like Pettite. 

 

Steroid AND HGH user

 

MoVaughn_small.jpg

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For this violation and circumstance the Commisioner is totally out of line.IMO he could find more constructive things to do like insuring the players equipment is safer ,such as helmets # 1.Lets not just police the players like the gastapo lets protect them as well.IMO the commissioner is trying to make a name for himself and with me right now his name is Mud.

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You really believe that Andy Pettite doesn't workout? Come on man. 

 

My point was it's not about physique as his age, it's about recovering from injuries + performance. It's not bodybuilding, he's not out there trying to be Ronnie Coleman. He's trying to stay on the field and keep his strength up at an advanced age, just like Pettite. 

 

Steroid AND HGH user

 

MoVaughn_small.jpg

You really think a pitcher works out like a DE playing in the nfl?? It's clear from that pick he wasn't that dedicated to his diet or workout regime. I mean seriously, it's not that hard to not have a gut.

You say it's about staying on the field, yet above you acted like he used PEDS to the point of turning him from a 10 sack guy into a 20 sack guy....so clearly you thought it was about more than simply maintaining.

And stop comparing fat baseball players to a slim, flat chested defensive end.

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Unfortunately no one knows if Mathis is telling the truth or not. Some of us will believe he is, others will not. 

 

Either way though, it was his responsibility to monitor what he was putting in his body. I know if I were an NFL player and I was "clean," I wouldn't take so much as a single aspirin without checking with the NFLPA first. With all those medical resources available to him, Mathis should have checked this out with team docs, the union... whoever. Probably would have taken a single phone call and this whole situation could have been avoided. 

 

If his story is true, then a four-game suspension is a small price to pay for bringing a child into the world that he's going to love for the rest of his life. Some things are more important than football. 

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For this violation and circumstance the Commisioner is totally out of line.IMO he could find more constructive things to do like insuring the players equipment is safer ,such as helmets # 1.Lets not just police the players like the gastapo lets protect them as well.IMO the commissioner is trying to make a name for himself and with me right now his name is Mud.

To be fair, if Mathis really was using Clovis for fertility reasons, it wasn't that difficult to contact the nfl. If I were in their shoes I would find it hard to give Mathis a break.

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