Is Mathis truthful?

[nburgmei]

Just because a drug is off label doesn't mean it isn't effective at doing something else.  See more info on my post here-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/28790-mathis-suspended-first-4-games-of-2014/page-9#entry808605

 

Either way, actually trying to have more kids, or recovery from a steroid cycle, trying to increase muscle mass, or whatever other reason folks can conjure up, the substance is banned by the NFL and he was caught with it in his system.  the Steroid (PED) policy is different in that 1st positive results in 4 game suspension.

This is definitely true. I'm currently prescribed a drug for off-label use. Sometimes doctors do what they need to do.

 

I'd like to address another issue that keeps popping up. People keep mentioning Mathis' intelligence. I don't mean this as player bashing, I love Mathis, but to be completely honest I've never gotten the impression through interviews that he was the most intelligent of the bunch. I could be completely off base, maybe he's a poorly spoken genius, but I know I've seen several interviews that made me wonder. Intelligence also doesn't necessarily equate to common sense. I know some really smart people that do some really dumb things. 

 

For now though, I've seen enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. 

[BOTT]

Many good players cheat on the downside of their careers in order to extend their careers and keep making money.  Names like Jason Giambi, Manny Ramirez, and Alex Rodriguez come to mind in baseball.  Mathis signed a nice contract and like most players, he wants to live up to that contract. 

 

He also took clomid during the season.  He said he took it in November of last year which means he was probably caught during the season and had been working with the NFL trying to appeal it.  They have not disclosed a timeline of events and they probably never will.  This has been going on for months and we're only finding out now because he has been officially suspended. 

 

Also, if he were trying get his sperm counts up quickly, HCG would have been more appropriate.  It works much faster than Clomid.  Clomid can take a few months to build up sperm counts.  Most men opting for Clomid to increase sperm counts do so because it is very cheap.  HCG is very expensive and most insurance companies won't pay for either drug for use in men.  Mathis is rich and he can afford HCG but HCG is easily detected by a pregnancy test which makes me think he opted for Clomid because it's harder to detect.  Plus, Mathis has a set of twins already and he is the youngest of 5 children. 

 

I feel for him and his mother.  It's hard to watch someone with esophageal cancer die so I could see why he would want to have another child quickly before his mother died.  My wife's aunt died of esophageal cancer a few years ago and it was very painful.

But if Marhis wanted to use a performance enhancer, would clomid really be his first choice? Having listened to the former head of BALCO on espn talk about all the PEDS options that are available and that are nearly undetectable I have a hard time believing clomid would be the first choice of an nfl player.

[The Fish]

I'll choose to tentatively believe Mathis, but I wouldn't be shocked if he's excuse was just that. An excuse. 

[BPM_Colt]

Really feel like he is telling the truth.. First time I have ever heard his reasoning as why someone failed a test..

 

Things seem to support what he said, I just think he made a blunder by not talking to the NFL or NFLPA beforehand

[deedub75]

But if Marhis wanted to use a performance enhancer, would clomid really be his first choice? Having listened to the former head of BALCO on espn talk about all the PEDS options that are available and that are nearly undetectable I have a hard time believing clomid would be the first choice of an nfl player.

 

I wonder the same thing.  If there were so many undetectable options out there, why would anyone ever get caught?  I do know that it is common for someone coming off of a steroid cycle to use Clomid at the end of that cycle to restart the testes. 

[dgambill]

What is the chance u take this drug for only 10 days and u suddenly get pregnant? Just asking seems very unlikely. Usually it takes months to build sperm count up from what I've read but maybe I'm wrong. That is another thing I find highly questionable in the story. I just highly doubt the story we are given. Seems much more likely he was using some steroids and try to mask it or cycle back. I hope I'm wrong for Roberts sake but his story has many holes and the nfl saw through them.

[NewColtsFan]

The NFL replied to Mathis' agent by saying Clomid is not an FDA approved drug for males -- it treats women for fertility-- but is banned as a PED. There is nothing wrong with admitting you cheated, got caught and promise to cheat no more. Of course it might mean no Hall of Fame chances.

 

It may not be an FDA approved drug for males -- but that doesn't mean some doctors don't prescribe it for males.   From the stories  I read,  they do.  

 

And he's got a letter from his doctor certifying that's why he prescribed it for Robert.   It was needed for the wife, but she (for medical reasons) can't take it.   So, he had to.     That's their claim.

 

I have no idea if he's lying.   But he went to greater lengths than most to explain his situation and I think he made a good case that he's not lying.

 

But the bottom line is this:    If Robert had simply double-checked with either the Colts medical people, or the NFLPA, or the NFL itself,  then we wouldn't be talking about this because they would've told Robert not to take it.

 

Robert admitted this is his fault.   And so that's what I believe......

[deedub75]

What is the chance u take this drug for only 10 days and u suddenly get pregnant? Just asking seems very unlikely. Usually it takes months to build sperm count up from what I've read but maybe I'm wrong. That is another thing I find highly questionable in the story. I just highly doubt the story we are given. Seems much more likely he was using some steroids and try to mask it or cycle back. I hope I'm wrong for Roberts sake but his story has many holes and the nfl saw through them.

 

Not likely but not impossible.  If he had low sperm counts (which is why it would be given for infertility) it would take a couple of months to increase sperm counts. 

[RomanianColtsFan]

It's painful to say that I believe he is lying and that is because I like Robert as a person not just as a player.

NFL has heard these excuses before and they know the circumstances Clomide is used, which is to increase the testosterone level following steroid use. Steroids as you know are banned substances themselves.

Besides there are some circumstance which although are not evidence they are circumstantial and they are worth mentioning. This is not a desperate situation of a man wanting to have kids after years of trying. He already has beautiful twins from his marriage and an older daughter from his wife's previous marriage.

[schwamm]

Also, if he were trying get his sperm counts up quickly, HCG would have been more appropriate.  It works much faster than Clomid.  Clomid can take a few months to build up sperm counts.  Most men opting for Clomid to increase sperm counts do so because it is very cheap.  HCG is very expensive and most insurance companies won't pay for either drug for use in men.  Mathis is rich and he can afford HCG but HCG is easily detected by a pregnancy test which makes me think he opted for Clomid because it's harder to detect.

 

 

Not likely but not impossible.  If he had low sperm counts (which is why it would be given for infertility) it would take a couple of months to increase sperm counts. 

A couple thoughts...

 

First, it is possible that he chose Clomid over HCG because he KNEW HCG was verboten, but though Clomid was OK.  Or that he suspected that Clomid might not be allowed either, but he took the risk, to get pregnant, hoping the fact that it is harder to detect would allow him to avoid trouble.

 

Second, it is possible that he got on Clomid to increase sperm count (or motility?), anticipating having to be on the drug longer than 10 days, but discovered his wife was pregnant, and immediately got off of it.

 

I've been through all this with my wife.  I didn't have to do the Clomid or HCG, but both possibilities were discussed at length with our doctor.  My avi of our son is the result of years of effort, doctor visits, complicated drug protocols and too much heartbreak. 

 

I sincerely hope Mathis is telling the truth, and not in the least because I am worried about his integrity, his football career, or his HOF status.  I really have to hope he isn't using others' painful experiences to help him hide cheating.

[Dark_Indy]

The NFL replied to Mathis' agent by saying Clomid is not an FDA approved drug for males -- it treats women for fertility-- but is banned as a PED. There is nothing wrong with admitting you cheated, got caught and promise to cheat no more. Of course it might mean no Hall of Fame chances.

 

Clomid is not an FDA approved drug for males, but in the pharmacy I work at, we send out thousands of boxes of Clomiphene (Clomid) to male patients all the time. 

 

Granted, we are a compounding pharmacy and are not regulated by the FDA, but the use of Clomiphene in men is well documented in the United States. None of the "herbal supplements" that people take are FDA approved, yet people use them all the time.

[Combsey]

Sure. The Drug Policy (non steroidal / PED) is here-

 

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Drug%20Policy.pdf

 

But this now being reviewed for changes as we speak.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10927282/renegotiation-nfl-drug-policy-reduce-marijuana-punishments

This totally makes sense to me punish someone who can prove they were trying to have a baby but change the policy to not punish recreational drug use really Goodall. Oh course the colts are not considered to be a very popular or big market team get p tired of the colts not ding recognized. If this was Tom Brady they would be saying well he had a good reason and it checked out.

[colts98]

You don't support most of the players in the NFL then

I agree with you,I thought he was just a little harsh.

[ColtsBlueFL]

A couple thoughts...

 

First, it is possible that he chose Clomid over HCG because he KNEW HCG was verboten, but though Clomid was OK.  Or that he suspected that Clomid might not be allowed either, but he took the risk, to get pregnant, hoping the fact that it is harder to detect would allow him to avoid trouble.

 

Second, it is possible that he got on Clomid to increase sperm count (or motility?), anticipating having to be on the drug longer than 10 days, but discovered his wife was pregnant, and immediately got off of it.

 

I've been through all this with my wife.  I didn't have to do the Clomid or HCG, but both possibilities were discussed at length with our doctor.  My avi of our son is the result of years of effort, doctor visits, complicated drug protocols and too much heartbreak. 

 

I sincerely hope Mathis is telling the truth, and not in the least because I am worried about his integrity, his football career, or his HOF status.  I really have to hope he isn't using others' painful experiences to help him hide cheating.

 

I want to believe him, and still give benefit of the doubt.  There's just one little thing that bugs me... referring to the above bolded part,  if he was only on 10 days, then his wife got pregnant before or just as he started the fertility regimen. From most respects, the earliest one can tell they are pregnant (not doing special tests, but why do that when you are just starting the sperm count therapy?) is 6-12 days after conception.  When the fertilized egg attaches itself to wall of the uterus. This can cause one of the earliest signs of pregnancy, spotting and cramping.  This usually takes 6-12 days and is most often confusing because they resemble menstrual cramps, so some women mistake them and the bleeding for the start of their period.  So I'm wondering how they knew she was pregnant so early in therapy, and that it was likely not needed at all?

 

But the rest of my say is already all over these threads, so I leave it here.

[azcolt]

He's a cheater. I for one DO NOT SUPPORT liars and cheaters. I don't want him on my team or representing INDIANAPOLIS. The time has come to move on from this *.

Well, it certainly took long enough to get the right answer to my question, whether you are joking or not. One thing about fans, they are all for throwing the book at opponent teams' cheaters even as they overlook their own cheaters. No wonder he suddenly became a superstar when most DEs are nearing the end of their careers.

[schwamm]

I want to believe him, and still give benefit of the doubt.  There's just one little thing that bugs me... referring to the above bolded part,  if he was only on 10 days, then his wife got pregnant before or just as he started the fertility regimen. From most respects, the earliest one can tell they are pregnant (not doing special tests, but why do that when you are just starting the sperm count therapy?) is 6-12 days after conception.  When the fertilized egg attaches itself to wall of the uterus. This can cause one of the earliest signs of pregnancy, spotting and cramping.  This usually takes 6-12 days and is most often confusing because they resemble menstrual cramps, so some women mistake them and the bleeding for the start of their period.  So I'm wondering how they knew she was pregnant so early in therapy, and that it was likely not needed at all?

 

But the rest of my say is already all over these threads, so I leave it here.

I cannot prove he is being truthful or not... but I would just say this:  if Mathis was taking Clomid to increase sperm count or motility, it doesn't mean she couldn't get pregnant without it.  It was just to improve their chances.  It is possible he was starting in on efforts to improve their chances, but they got pregnant before the Clomid could have helped.

[Thewholefnshow28]

Nobody knows if he is being truthful except for him.

All I know is there is no excuse for him not to know. The NFL makes the info at I on readily available to all players and provides a person who can confirm. This guy was approved by both the NFL and NFLPA. Heck, you can google NFL band substance list and it is the first result and what Mathis was taking is listed on page three of the PDF.

For such a seasoned vet it is a mistake that is hard to believe. This is your job and ultimately it is your responsibility to know what you are taking and if it is illegal in the eyes of your employer.

All we can do is move on without him and get ready for week one and hope he comes to ready to make up for this screw up.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I cannot prove he is being truthful or not... but I would just say this:  if Mathis was taking Clomid to increase sperm count or motility, it doesn't mean she couldn't get pregnant without it.  It was just to improve their chances.  It is possible he was starting in on efforts to improve their chances, but they got pregnant before the Clomid could have helped.

 

That's my point, and my only comment is it now appears as though it was unnecessary, and very risky regarding violating the NFL Substance Abuse Policy.  So maybe, as one other poster mentioned, he just doesn't care in this case. Any other use is exceptionally ominous. I'm sure he will  now be one of the 10 (drug tests per roster) more often this season.

[deedub75]

A couple thoughts...

 

First, it is possible that he chose Clomid over HCG because he KNEW HCG was verboten, but though Clomid was OK.  Or that he suspected that Clomid might not be allowed either, but he took the risk, to get pregnant, hoping the fact that it is harder to detect would allow him to avoid trouble.

 

Second, it is possible that he got on Clomid to increase sperm count (or motility?), anticipating having to be on the drug longer than 10 days, but discovered his wife was pregnant, and immediately got off of it.

 

I've been through all this with my wife.  I didn't have to do the Clomid or HCG, but both possibilities were discussed at length with our doctor.  My avi of our son is the result of years of effort, doctor visits, complicated drug protocols and too much heartbreak. 

 

I sincerely hope Mathis is telling the truth, and not in the least because I am worried about his integrity, his football career, or his HOF status.  I really have to hope he isn't using others' painful experiences to help him hide cheating.

 

All of those things are possible.  My issue with Mathis' statement is that he said that the doctor wanted his wife to take the Clomid, which would mean that the doctor would have to believe it was something with his wife and not Mathis himself.  Since his wife couldn't take the Clomid the doctor told Mathis to take it.  That just doesn't sound right to me.  This doctor that Mathis saw isn't a fertility specialist either. 

[In Luck We Trust]

Also, this has to be his second violation of the ped rule, as he got suspended, right?

So you have to wonder, what and when was his first?

it goes 4 games for first offense, then 8 and then season. 

[IndyPhil]

I personally feel his emotions were more than likely involved.  He wanted a child.  His doctor said it wouldn't be a problem.  He decided emotionally to not inquire further and hope it all works out more than likely.  And I cant blame him.  It is just absurd that any employer can deny medical treatment to a employee.  It should be illegal what happened to him in my opinion.  And I am glad he will be able to have the child he wants.  Its just 4 games. 

[Poster X]

He's a cheater. I for one DO NOT SUPPORT liars and cheaters. I don't want him on my team or representing INDIANAPOLIS. The time has come to move on from this *.

Really? I can only imagine the word you used that got censored. The bottom line is as an athlete you have to know what is going in your body... but bedroom performance enhancing drugs taken at the end of the season is far from somethiing worthy of such condemnation.

[schwamm]

All of those things are possible. My issue with Mathis' statement is that he said that the doctor wanted his wife to take the Clomid, which would mean that the doctor would have to believe it was something with his wife and not Mathis himself. Since his wife couldn't take the Clomid the doctor told Mathis to take it. That just doesn't sound right to me. This doctor that Mathis saw isn't a fertility specialist either.

FWIW, our initial fertility specialist was USELESS. We kept successfully getting pregnant, but were unable to maintain it. He counted each one as a success, despite our misfortune.

It was a reproductive endocrinologist who helped us have our child. I don't know anything about the doctor in Mathis's story, but not being a fertility specialist is not a problem to my book.

[deedub75]

FWIW, our initial fertility specialist was USELESS. We kept successfully getting pregnant, but were unable to maintain it. He counted each one as a success, despite our misfortune.

It was a reproductive endocrinologist who helped us have our child. I don't know anything about the doctor in Mathis's story, but not being a fertility specialist is not a problem to my book.

 

I looked on the doctor's website.  He is an anti-aging specialist.  He deals a lot with HCG, HGH, etc. 

[colts_100nascar17fan]

He would of been better off just admitting he screwed up instead of telling a lie. The nfl looked at the drug and its not for male fertility period,he lied and its hid fault his responsibility to checked that stuff out before you tale it period.

[Dustin]

He would of been better off just admitting he screwed up instead of telling a lie. The nfl looked at the drug and its not for male fertility period,he lied and its hid fault his responsibility to checked that stuff out before you tale it period.

That's not true at all. The NFL mentioned the drug in their official statement. It was for fertility.

[1yrdandacloudofdust]

Does he not already have kids? LOL, I thought they were trying to have their 1st and only child. Im calling nonsense. Especially if it isnt approved for men. Can't a Doc lose their license prescribing it to him?

[HtownColt]

Does he not already have kids? LOL, I thought they were trying to have their 1st and only child. Im calling nonsense. Especially if it isnt approved for men. Can't a Doc lose their license prescribing it to him?

they prescribe it to men and women. His wife was taking Clomid when she got pregnant with their twins, then the doctor told her she couldn't take them no more due to medical reason so Robert Mathis took them now she is pregnant with their 3rd child.

I'll trade 4 games for a baby to build my family with. There is life after football and he is 32. Even if he did know it would get him the suspension. If that's what he had to do in order for his wife to conceive a child, I would've did the same.

[NewColtsFan]

Does he not already have kids? LOL, I thought they were trying to have their 1st and only child. Im calling nonsense. Especially if it isnt approved for men. Can't a Doc lose their license prescribing it to him?

 

His mother is dying.   Stage-4 cancer.    They're trying to give her another grand child before she dies.   The wife is now pregnant, and fortunately Reggie's mother is still alive.   So,  this may still work out for them.  

[bedlamVR]

I just think when you get caught using PEDs just admitt it - My wife and I have been through IVF for subfertility problems and beleive me we tried everything and it is a horrible and very trying process . The presciption of Clomid for males is only to treat very specific conditions usually which involve low testosterone levels, such conditions would also make an NFL career very unlikely because it would be associated with lack of energy in abillity to build muscle bulk along with other symptoms.

 

Clomid is used by steroid users to replenish testosterone at the end of a PED cycle . On its own Clomid will raise testosterone levels and has benificial effects in enducance training more than bulk growth . Mathis is comming off statistically his best year in his career ... coincidence ?

 

I think what is a lot darker is that he has tried to cover his path by not only invoking fertility problems which will gain sympathy from the media but I doubt is true and kind of pokes fun at those who go through the real pain of sub fertility issues. But then he also pulls in his mother who is dying from cancer . Who can be upset with a guy who is doing right by his dying mom... except when he is using this as an excuse to hide the fact that he was using PEDs to be better on the field.

 

Drug cheats are bad but when you get caught you get caught - This just leaves a bad taste

[crazycolt1]

Also, this has to be his second violation of the ped rule, as he got suspended, right?

So you have to wonder, what and when was his first?

I thought a suspension came after the 2nd offense but I was wrong. I looked the rules up and it is a 4 game suspension on the 1st offense. 2nd offense is a 6-8 game suspension and a 3rd is a 1 year suspension.

[crazycolt1]

Bull**** I think he is telling the truth and Goodell is just an * a fertility drug is not an on field performance enhancing drug and he had a prescription for this and as soon as his wife got pregnant he got of of it so its not like he stayed on it just because he could and with that percription the NFL has nothing in it and shouldn't even be involved.

According to the information I have read Clomid is used to mask the use of PEDs. That is why it is a banned substance. None of us will ever know if Mathis is telling the truth or not. You act as if you know Mathis on a personal level while I kind of doubt that you do. It is your opinion he did nothing wrong, that's all.

[crazycolt1]

From what I know as a long time fan of the Colts and Robert Mathis. He has been a stand up, respectful, roll model.

His doctor gave a sworn statement saying he prescribed Robert the drug.

I personally take him at his word and believe him. He has my support and I hope the rest of the ColtsNation does too.

Let anyone else say what they want to. The Colts are a family and you stand beside your family.

Standing up and supporting him is a given as a Colt fan. But putting sunglasses and binders on and acting like he did nothing wrong is not right either. It is your right and opinion he did nothing wrong. That's your choice. The deed was done and he will sit for 4 games. None of us can truthfully say we know the absolute truth as we are not Mathis. Only he knows.

[crazycolt1]

He's a cheater. I for one DO NOT SUPPORT liars and cheaters. I don't want him on my team or representing INDIANAPOLIS. The time has come to move on from this *.

If Mathis made a mistake or not he is paying the price for it. It's not up to you to say who plays for the Colts. Irsay, Grigson and Pagano are the ones who makes those choices, not you. Maybe it's time for you to move on in supporting another team Mr. Perfect.

[crazycolt1]

The post above is about to make this forum blow up.

 

Hold on while I grab some popcorn.

Here, let me hand you the butter and popcorn salt! :yes:

[crazycolt1]

Nobody knows if he is being truthful except for him.

All I know is there is no excuse for him not to know. The NFL makes the info at I on readily available to all players and provides a person who can confirm. This guy was approved by both the NFL and NFLPA. Heck, you can google NFL band substance list and it is the first result and what Mathis was taking is listed on page three of the PDF.

For such a seasoned vet it is a mistake that is hard to believe. This is your job and ultimately it is your responsibility to know what you are taking and if it is illegal in the eyes of your employer.

All we can do is move on without him and get ready for week one and hope he comes to ready to make up for this screw up.

Very well said.

[jameszeigler834]

I'll choose to tentatively believe Mathis, but I wouldn't be shocked if he's excuse was just that. An excuse. 

I believe mathis 100% and the NFL and Goodell are just foolish I mean who gives a crap about PED's when most likely 50% or more of the players were caught in the past and they didn't get the suspension Mathis just got the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

[ruksak]

I can only take him at his word right now. He has earned that from me. 

I don't get it? You don't know him at all. Not even a little bit. 

 

I personally don't buy what he's selling. 

 

A professional athlete in today's environment ....no way he would take a substance like that and not make damn sure it wasn't a banned substance. One call to his agent and he would've known this. He did know this, the only objective and reasonable explanation. 

[throwing BBZ]

It is certainly a thought that I pondered. Then I thought about my supervisor and his wife, back when they had issues conceiving. He would have done anything. They ended up adopting, and have a very happy family. 

 

I have watched the struggle a couple can face in this situation. In the end, 4 game suspension for the chance to have a child. It is a no-brainer. 

 

If what he said is true, then I do not blame him one bit. 

 

 Thick as a brick. Having heard HUNDREDS off Times to check your meds, me believes this guy just got caught_____, plain and simple.

 Hmmm! He is RICH. Is there NO other way but to take Clearly Banned meds to enhance conception probabilities?

 

 The good news is this is a great way to get him off the field on 1st down. It should strengthen our Run D and get us in more quality Pressure situations. Good for young player developement, this is actually a VGOOD Thing for the Team.

 Hopefully this did just happen to help his self proclaimed very bad feet along with Perhaps, helping with his family pursuits. .

[ruksak]

Life time joy of a child is worth sitting out 4 football games to me.

Doesn't he have 2 kids already? 

 

He ain't hiding behind sweet excuses for this one.