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Is Mathis truthful?


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The NFL replied to Mathis' agent by saying Clomid is not an FDA approved drug for males -- it treats women for fertility-- but is banned as a PED. There is nothing wrong with admitting you cheated, got caught and promise to cheat no more. Of course it might mean no Hall of Fame chances.

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I can only take him at his word right now. He has earned that from me. In time, if or when a "different truth" comes out then it would change my perspective. 

 

Right now, he is out 4 weeks. He will not count against the 53 man roster on opening day, and I choose to look at this on the bright side. Now we will have an open position for one of our younger players to get some experience. 

 

Also, Robert is not getting any younger, so maybe pulling him the first 4 games will help us in the long haul.

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The NFL replied to Mathis' agent by saying Clomid is not an FDA approved drug for males -- it treats women for fertility-- but is banned as a PED. There is nothing wrong with admitting you cheated, got caught and promise to cheat no more. Of course it might mean no Hall of Fame chances.

If Ray Lewis gets in then I wouldn't think there is much to keep you out of the HOF. It's a just popularity vote. I don't think Mathis is loved enough by the NFL to be in HOF.

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The fact he didn't think to ask the NFL first has me suspicious.  Anything to do with fertility treatments is associated with hormones, and that can equate to a positive NFL drug result.  Any reasonably intelligent person should know that. 

 

When in doubt, ask.  Disappointed with him at this point.  We'll see what comes of it. 

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My only question is about what he said the doctor told him. Obviously the doctor knew he was treating an NFL player.

Wouldn't any doctor check if the substance he was prescribing was banned by his patients employer if that patient asked? It would take all of two minutes.

Either way, he knew it was his responsibility at the end of the day and he owned up to it.

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Also, this has to be his second violation of the ped rule, as he got suspended, right?

So you have to wonder, what and when was his first?

 

No, the first violation for peds is a suspension.

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If Ray Lewis gets in then I wouldn't think there is much to keep you out of the HOF. It's a just popularity vote. I don't think Mathis is loved enough by the NFL to be in HOF.

 

Under the shadows of Freeney, Mathis was very under appreciated. Freeney and Mathis were separated for one year, and Mathis exploded, while Freeney was injured early in the season. 

 

I believe Freeney is a first ballot hall of famer. I think Mathis has a decent shot to get in. These two wrecked the league for years together. It was not just a couple of years like we see so many other over-hyped players. Combined, they have over 200 sacks, over the span of the last decade. 

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The NFL replied to Mathis' agent by saying Clomid is not an FDA approved drug for males -- it treats women for fertility-- but is banned as a PED. There is nothing wrong with admitting you cheated, got caught and promise to cheat no more. Of course it might mean no Hall of Fame chances.

 

 

Just because a drug is off label doesn't mean it isn't effective at doing something else.  See more info on my post here-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/28790-mathis-suspended-first-4-games-of-2014/page-9#entry808605

 

Either way, actually trying to have more kids, or recovery from a steroid cycle, trying to increase muscle mass, or whatever other reason folks can conjure up, the substance is banned by the NFL and he was caught with it in his system.  the Steroid (PED) policy is different in that 1st positive results in 4 game suspension.

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The fact he didn't think to ask the NFL first has me suspicious. 

 

It is certainly a thought that I pondered. Then I thought about my supervisor and his wife, back when they had issues conceiving. He would have done anything. They ended up adopting, and have a very happy family. 

 

I have watched the struggle a couple can face in this situation. In the end, 4 game suspension for the chance to have a child. It is a no-brainer. 

 

If what he said is true, then I do not blame him one bit. 

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The NFL replied to Mathis' agent by saying Clomid is not an FDA approved drug for males -- it treats women for fertility-- but is banned as a PED. There is nothing wrong with admitting you cheated, got caught and promise to cheat no more. Of course it might mean no Hall of Fame chances.

Bull**** I think he is telling the truth and Goodell is just an * a fertility drug is not an on field performance enhancing drug and he had a prescription for this and as soon as his wife got pregnant he got of of it so its not like he stayed on it just because he could and with that percription the NFL has nothing in it and shouldn't even be involved.

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The fact he didn't think to ask the NFL first has me suspicious.  Anything to do with fertility treatments is associated with hormones, and that can equate to a positive NFL drug result.  Any reasonably intelligent person should know that. 

 

When in doubt, ask.  Disappointed with him at this point.  We'll see what comes of it.

I don't think it's uncommon for men to keep things like this to themselves as much as possible. Silly given the consequences of getting caught, but it wouldn't surprise me.

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The NFL replied to Mathis' agent by saying Clomid is not an FDA approved drug for males -- it treats women for fertility-- but is banned as a PED. There is nothing wrong with admitting you cheated, got caught and promise to cheat no more. Of course it might mean no Hall of Fame chances.

I live in south Texas where a lot of people go to Mexico for cheaper and non fda approved medicine. Just be the fda hasn't or doesn't approve it doesn't mean it doesn't work for what you want it for. Remember the Fda is a government agency....lol

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The article in the Star said that the drug he was taking, found in the fertility drug, is also used as a masking agent for steroids. The drug was not mistaken for a PED, but a substance used to mask a PED.

To me, that creates a stronger possibility that he has been using PED's and successfully masking them. For how long?

IF this was a substance that tests positive for a PED, then it could be more likely a mistake.

Testing positive for a masking agent is ominous, IMO.

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From what I know as a long time fan of the Colts and Robert Mathis. He has been a stand up, respectful, roll model.

His doctor gave a sworn statement saying he prescribed Robert the drug.

I personally take him at his word and believe him. He has my support and I hope the rest of the ColtsNation does too.

Let anyone else say what they want to. The Colts are a family and you stand beside your family.

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Bull**** I think he is telling the truth and Goodell is just an * a fertility drug is not an on field performance enhancing drug and he had a prescription for this and as soon as his wife got pregnant he got of of it so its not like he stayed on it just because he could and with that percription the NFL has nothing in it and shouldn't even be involved.

 

I'm sorry to report you are severely misinformed about the' fertility drug'.  There is a ton of science on Clomid and these substances-

 

Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) Compounds that bind with estrogen receptors and exhibit estrogen action in some tissues and anti-estrogen action in other tissues. The ideal SERM would deliver all the benefits of estrogen without the adverse effects. ex: Clomiphene Citrate (Marketed as Clomid or Serophene). Tamoxifen (Marketed as Nolvadex).

Aromatise Inhibitor (AI) Aromatase inhibitors exhibit a very different mechanism of action than SERM’s. Aromatase inhibitors prevent the conversion of androgens into estrogen in fat, muscle, breast, and brain. ex: Anastrazole (brand name Arimidex ). FEMARA (letrozole tablets).

 

Fact is, Clomid increases testosterone at the testes and many folks, especially workout fiends - (but that's not Robert, right? ) report increase in muscle mass.  If that doesn't qualify as a PED, then what does?  Not only that, it is used by body builders to recover testosterone reduce from a steroid cycle.  Not that I think Robert would do that, but that is another widespread use...

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Clomid is not FDA approved for use by men, but according to some it is effective in boosting testosterone to increase sperm production, and is prescribed "off label" for men.  The reason that Clomid was only approved for women is that the only human trials were conducted on women, but it went "generic" before any studies were done on men.  No drug company wanted to spend the millions of dollars on a human trial on men for a drug that had already lost patent protection. 

 

So, did Mathis simply take this to help conceive another child?...or did he knowingly take it as a testosterone booster, thinking that he would have an excuse if he tested positive? Only Robert Mathis can answer this, but no one who has ever seem him snack on a buffet  of NFL quarterbacks could ever question his testosterone level. This suspension will hurt, but he's still Robert Mathis, and he will still have a huge appetite for QBs. 

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The article in the Star said that the drug he was taking, found in the fertility drug, is also used as a masking agent for steroids. The drug was not mistaken for a PED, but a substance used to mask a PED.

To me, that creates a stronger possibility that he has been using PED's and successfully masking them. For how long?

IF this was a substance that tests positive for a PED, then it could be more likely a mistake.

Testing positive for a masking agent is ominous, IMO.

 

And the Star is also misinformed.  It is not a masking agent.  However, once a body builder (or other user) has completed a steroid cycle, they use Clomid to restore testosterone back to normal levels the steroids depleted.  So there's left over smoke potential from a recent fire.

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Clomid is not FDA approved for use by men, but according to some it is effective in boosting testosterone to increase sperm production, and is prescribed "off label" for men.  The reason that Clomid was only approved for women is that the only human trials were conducted on women, but it went "generic" before any studies were done on men.  No drug company wanted to spend the millions of dollars on a human trial on men for a drug that had already lost patent protection. 

 

So, did Mathis simply take this to help conceive another child?...or did he knowingly take it as a testosterone booster, thinking that he would have an excuse if he tested positive? Only Robert Mathis can answer this, but no one who has ever seem him snack on a buffet  of NFL quarterbacks could ever question his testosterone level. This suspension will hurt, but he's still Robert Mathis, and he will still have a huge appetite for QBs. 

All true, I reported same elsewhere.

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Yeah, multiple violations is required for something like marijuana, not PEDs. Thanks for the link.

 

Sure. The Drug Policy (non steroidal / PED) is here-

 

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Drug%20Policy.pdf

 

But this now being reviewed for changes as we speak.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10927282/renegotiation-nfl-drug-policy-reduce-marijuana-punishments

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And the Star is also misinformed.  It is not a masking agent.  However, once a body builder (or other user) has completed a steroid cycle, they use Clomid to restore testosterone back to normal levels the steroids depleted.  So there's left over smoke potential from a recent fire.

Thanks for the correction. Masking agent may not be the best term, but the NFL has banned the substance since, apparently, it can be used to help players cheat with PED's, if I'm reading the srticle correctly.

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Thanks for the correction. Masking agent may not be the best term, but the NFL has banned the substance since, apparently, it can be used to help players cheat with PED's, if I'm reading the srticle correctly.

 

Wasn't correcting you as much, per se`, but the Star.  You were just reporting info, but evidently the Star was wrong, or just did not report accurately enough in that one could infer it was a masking agent (which it is not).  So I thank you for sharing and showing the likely shortfall of the Star's article.  That could affect any assumptions and conclusions deduced from that point on.

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    ..I think he knew the drug might show up on tests but he didnt care because of the situation...

 

..that's why he seems accepting of the penalty...

 

 

....He's played for what? 10 years?    Its doubtful that, after his best season, he'd just now become a rule breaker for performance reasons

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    ..I think he knew the drug might show up on tests but he didnt care because of the situation...

 

..that's why he seems accepting of the penalty...

 

 

....He's played for what? 10 years?    Its doubtful that, after his best season, he'd just now become a rule breaker for performance reasons

 

I share a very similar opinion with you.

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My only question is about what he said the doctor told him. Obviously the doctor knew he was treating an NFL player.

Wouldn't any doctor check if the substance he was prescribing was banned by his patients employer if that patient asked? It would take all of two minutes.

Either way, he knew it was his responsibility at the end of the day and he owned up to it.

 

That's what gets me.  I looked on that doctor's website.  He specializes in anti-aging, HGH, HCG, etc.  He is not a fertility specialist.  He has been in practice for 32 years.  He has been on multiple talk shows and TV shows.  Even if he didn't know anything about NFL policy, he wouldn't tell Mathis that a drug that increases testosterone in men would not make him fail a drug test.  He would have told Mathis to check with the NFL first and since Mathis is an NFL veteran, he would have known to check with the NFL anyway.  If he were really using Clomid to try to have a child, maybe the NFL would have given him a waiver to take if he had just applied for it.  I'm not sure if the NFL has a waiver policy but I know that MLB has one. 

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He's a cheater. I for one DO NOT SUPPORT liars and cheaters. I don't want him on my team or representing INDIANAPOLIS. The time has come to move on from this *.

You don't support most of the players in the NFL then

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He's a cheater. I for one DO NOT SUPPORT liars and cheaters. I don't want him on my team or representing INDIANAPOLIS. The time has come to move on from this *.

 

You have a right to that opinion.  I do not share it in this instance (usually do though).  Too much extraneous evidence to make it inconclusive he was cheating.  Serve the time?  Yes, definitely.  Cheater?  Not so conclusive.  There are much better ways to cheat than trying to get short term muscle mass from increased free testosterone.

 

Now, if you are trying to say he was using  for Post Steroidal Cycle Therapy, you'll have to do much better in your evidence, considering Mathis' history, recent situation, and the particular substance found.  But you get to feel that way, even if myself and others aren't on board that train this time around.

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    ..I think he knew the drug might show up on tests but he didnt care because of the situation...

 

..that's why he seems accepting of the penalty...

 

 

....He's played for what? 10 years?    Its doubtful that, after his best season, he'd just now become a rule breaker for performance reasons

 

Many good players cheat on the downside of their careers in order to extend their careers and keep making money.  Names like Jason Giambi, Manny Ramirez, and Alex Rodriguez come to mind in baseball.  Mathis signed a nice contract and like most players, he wants to live up to that contract. 

 

He also took clomid during the season.  He said he took it in November of last year which means he was probably caught during the season and had been working with the NFL trying to appeal it.  They have not disclosed a timeline of events and they probably never will.  This has been going on for months and we're only finding out now because he has been officially suspended. 

 

Also, if he were trying get his sperm counts up quickly, HCG would have been more appropriate.  It works much faster than Clomid.  Clomid can take a few months to build up sperm counts.  Most men opting for Clomid to increase sperm counts do so because it is very cheap.  HCG is very expensive and most insurance companies won't pay for either drug for use in men.  Mathis is rich and he can afford HCG but HCG is easily detected by a pregnancy test which makes me think he opted for Clomid because it's harder to detect.  Plus, Mathis has a set of twins already and he is the youngest of 5 children. 

 

I feel for him and his mother.  It's hard to watch someone with esophageal cancer die so I could see why he would want to have another child quickly before his mother died.  My wife's aunt died of esophageal cancer a few years ago and it was very painful. 

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if you look up the past doping incidents,its probably true he got caught.thats why patronizing these guys is a big mistake .personally I cheer for the team name or better yet the uniform.its hard to cheer for a player,who after spending 200 dollars to go watch play,wont be in lineup cuz of stupid doping decision.

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