Mathis suspended first 4 games of 2014.

[BpG]

Just full on denial. Nolvadex, Clomid and pinning testosterone. 

 

Absolutely ridiculous to think a guy that has been in the league this long wouldn't know that would get you busted.

[deedub75]

Lol what?

Reading comprehension fail...

It's clomid... it's an adverse to testosterone stimulating production. There's literally been very little evidence that it boosts muscle gain or performance because all it does at normal prescription is get your body to normal testosterone levels...

If your over dosing it's toxic and if your attempting to use it as an enhancer it is very noticeable and dangerous to your body.

But that aside. Personal life is very important so if you wanna call me stupid for desperately having a child then go at it. Imo a 4 game suspension is peanuts in comparison to not having a child. I'm sorry that football wasn't the first thing on his mind when attempting to procreate.

Good lord

 

Do your research before you make a post.  Doctors frequently give men with low testosterone clomid to see if they are primary or secondary hypogonadal.  It's called the clomid test.  If a man with low testosterone takes clomid and the testosterone levels go up, he's secondary hypogonadal meaning that it's not his groin but rather a pituitary problem. 

 

Clomid mimics luteinizing hormone which tells the groin to produce more testosterone.  Urologists who are fertility specialists give men clomid or HCG to increase testosterone production.  It's a female drug but it is frequently given to men off-label to increase testosterone levels in men. 

[Superman]

That's speculation, at best. Newsome looked more like a project pick than an immediate impact player, in my opinion. I would think Daniel Adongo would be next in line to get more PT at this point. Goes without saying, we have a serious with our pass rush if Werner or someone can't step up

 

Yeah, it's speculation, but it's reasonable. Newsome was just drafted 6 days ago. I doubt Grigson made the Newsome pick because of Mathis' situation, but I think it's likely that he knew about it.

[deedub75]

I knew it was going to be bad but !!

 

Anyone who knows anything about steroids knows Mathis is full of it. He was using Steroids and got tested at the end of his cycle. No grown man takes female fertility drugs (especially clomid) if he isn't using testosterone. Jesus

 

That's not exactly true.  You're right that men on a cycle do take clomid but clomid is prescribed off-label by fertility specialists to help men with fertility issues. 

[Superman]

Do your research before you make a post.  Doctors frequently give men with low testosterone clomid to see if they are primary or secondary hypogonadal.  It's called the clomid test.  If a man with low testosterone takes clomid and the testosterone levels go up, he's secondary hypogonadal meaning that it's not his groin but rather a pituitary problem. 

 

Clomid mimics luteinizing hormone which tells the groin to produce more testosterone.  Urologists who are fertility specialists give men clomid or HCG to increase testosterone production.  It's a female drug but it is frequently given to men off-label to increase testosterone levels in men. 

 

Someone seems to know what they're talking about...

[Leon]

I agree with you about the drug policy.  It needs to be revamped since they are now discussing the marijuana policy. 

 

exactly, last i heard the level the fail on pat was much less than the level in the olympics, and less than even a pilot can have in them to fly an airplane, ridiculous 

[Superman]

That's not exactly true.  You're right that men on a cycle do take clomid but clomid is prescribed off-label by fertility specialists to help men with fertility issues. 

 

And didn't they just have twins? Multiples often result from alternative conception methods.

[BpG]

That's not exactly true.  You're right that men on a cycle do take clomid but clomid is prescribed off-label by fertility specialists to help men with fertility issues. 

 

 

If you think that's really the case here you're deluding yourself. He was taking testosterone and cycling off. There is no way in hell Mathis wouldn't know it was illegal. 

 

A guy his age, in the NFL playing at a level better than he ever has in his entire career gets busted for a drug used for cycling off steroids....yeah, just trying to get his wife pregnant.....come on man

[bestQBever]

Based on what, exactly? 

Newsome has more experience playing football.

[deedub75]

He was taking fertility pills to try and impregnate his wife. He was going off orders from his doctors (who weren't too bright here).

 

Don't be a smartbutt.

 

Not being a smartbutt.  Any doctor giving a man a prescription of clomid knows what it is going to do inside of the body.  It is going to increase testosterone production.  That's the sole purpose of giving clomid to a man in the first place.  Anything that increases testosterone in a professional football player is going to be a red flag.

 

He is stupid for not checking with the league first.  Just plain stupid.  No defense for that. 

[YOUR GM]

He's been playing football for more than a year. I think that's a good reason for that kind of conclusion.

 

And Adongo has been in the system ( and a pro) a year longer than Newsome. He is also more athletic and has put on a ton of muscle in the off-season. I wouldn't assume Newsome is a lock to get more reps

[Surge89]

Increased testosterone means increased energy levels, increased stamina and endurance (and not just in the bedroom), etc. It could have an effect on his performance in training and on the field.

It's not increased...

It is getting your body back to normal level. This is not HGH not even close. HGH stimulates protein creation putting protein into the body more than what the body originally had. Clomid generates responses from the body to balance out estrogen and testosterone back to normal. It doesn't create proteins for muscle mass nor increase testosterone so you can work out longer. The only con in Mathis' case is his age. Meaning naturally he is on the dipping point of testosterone so this drug might have helped him feel a year or 2 younger. But in no way is it going to effect performance.

My point is people are already making it sound like he is a druggy and irresponsible while he is neither. He broke a rule... BIG DEAL. At least now he is going to have a family.

[deedub75]

If you think that's really the case here you're deluding yourself. He was taking testosterone and cycling off. There is no way in hell Mathis wouldn't know it was illegal. 

 

A guy his age, in the NFL playing at a level better than he ever has in his entire career gets busted for a drug used for cycling off steroids....yeah, just trying to get his wife pregnant.....come on man

 

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I'm just saying that there are men who take clomid strictly to get pregnant.  Not all men take it on a cycle.  Believe me.....I know. 

[Superman]

And Adongo has been in the system ( and a pro) a year longer than Newsome. He is also more athletic and has put on a ton of muscle in the off-season. I wouldn't assume Newsome is a lock to get more reps

 

Maybe he's not a lock, but I do think that's a safe assumption. I also think it makes sense to consider Newsome more ready than Adongo. Time will tell...

[deedub75]

And didn't they just have twins? Multiples often result from alternative conception methods.

 

It only causes multiples when women take it, not men. 

[YOUR GM]

Yeah, it's speculation, but it's reasonable. Newsome was just drafted 6 days ago. I doubt Grigson made the Newsome pick because of Mathis' situation, but I think it's likely that he knew about it.

 

 

So you agree Newsome wasn't picked because of the Mathis suspension? All I said. We're on the same page

[Dustin]

Mathis' agent says the doctor who prescribed the medicine provided a sworn statement to the league as a part of the NFLPAs "appeal"

— Kyle J. Rodriguez (@ColtsAuth_Kyle)

May 16, 2014

The doctor also provided all medical records, which indicated that the drug was taken only for a short time at the end of last season.

— Kyle J. Rodriguez (@ColtsAuth_Kyle)

May 16, 2014

[Superman]

It's not increased...

It is getting your body back to normal level. This is not HGH not even close. HGH stimulates protein creation putting protein into the body more than what the body originally had. Clomid generates responses from the body to balance out estrogen and testosterone back to normal. It doesn't create proteins for muscle mass nor increase testosterone so you can work out longer. The only con in Mathis' case is his age. Meaning naturally he is on the dipping point of testosterone so this drug might have helped him feel a year or 2 younger. But in no way is it going to effect performance.

My point is people are already making it sound like he is a druggy and irresponsible while he is neither. He broke a rule... BIG DEAL. At least now he is going to have a family.

 

It's increased from what it was before. Maybe not above normal levels, but there's still a benefit to the person taking the treatment. That's obvious.

 

And yeah, I agree with you, this is overblown. But the rules are what they are. When you break them, almost regardless of the circumstances, you have to pay the consequences.

 

The PED policy needs to be adjusted. A lot of the substances that are illegal are harmless. Recreational weightlifters and athletes use this stuff all the time. The term "PED" is a misnomer anymore.

[snkdy]

https://twitter.com/ColtsAuth_Kyle/status/467425627671252992

https://twitter.com/ColtsAuth_Kyle/status/467426017125359616

Well there we go. Shame he wasn't responsible enough to cross-check, but Mathis is a good guy.

[Superman]

It only causes multiples when women take it, not men. 

 

I'm not talking about Clomid. I'm talking about IVF, artificial insemination, etc. They may have resorted to one of those methods. No telling at this point.

[Surge89]

Do your research before you make a post. Doctors frequently give men with low testosterone clomid to see if they are primary or secondary hypogonadal. It's called the clomid test. If a man with low testosterone takes clomid and the testosterone levels go up, he's secondary hypogonadal meaning that it's not his groin but rather a pituitary problem.

Clomid mimics luteinizing hormone which tells the groin to produce more testosterone. Urologists who are fertility specialists give men clomid or HCG to increase testosterone production. It's a female drug but it is frequently given to men off-label to increase testosterone levels in men.

Yea your right. But the fact is it doesn't produce testosterone. It stimulates but under normal dosage it will not stimulate past normal levels because all it is is an indicating test. Your point is far far far off. I don't need to do research I know what it does and it is in no way like HGH. It is USED in the same way as HGH, but not the same effect. HGH, causes abnormalities, clomid is unable to do that unless in dangerous doses. Simple. Either way your initial post claims Mathis as some type of bigot which in all respect he is far from. He wanted to have a child... how hard is that to understand?

[deedub75]

It's not increased...

It is getting your body back to normal level. This is not HGH not even close. HGH stimulates protein creation putting protein into the body more than what the body originally had. Clomid generates responses from the body to balance out estrogen and testosterone back to normal. It doesn't create proteins for muscle mass nor increase testosterone so you can work out longer. The only con in Mathis' case is his age. Meaning naturally he is on the dipping point of testosterone so this drug might have helped him feel a year or 2 younger. But in no way is it going to effect performance.

My point is people are already making it sound like he is a druggy and irresponsible while he is neither. He broke a rule... BIG DEAL. At least now he is going to have a family.

 

 

You are way off.  It has absolutely nothing to do with proteins.  HCG and clomid both stimulate the groin to produce testosterone.  They both mimic luteinizing hormone which tell the groin to produce testosterone. 

 

Goodness just read this article if you think I'm wrong.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16422830

[Superman]

So you agree Newsome wasn't picked because of the Mathis suspension? All I said. We're on the same page

 

Yeah, I don't think Grigson was relying on a 5th round pick to fill-in at the beginning of the season for one of the best pass rushers in the game. But I do think he was aware of the situation.

[Boilermaker]

Who is Mathis' physician? The medication he took would clearly raise his testosterone levels. So either his physician is a dumb*** (which is quite possible if he graduated from IU med school), or the physician actually told him about the testosterone increase..and Robert took it anyways. I honestly don't know how a physician wouldn't realize this. This hurts. I honestly hope that this was a true accident.

 

On the bright side, though, everybody on the forum was complaining about all the mock drafts, and nothing to talk about in the offseason...well now we have something to talk about. Always trying to find the silver lining lol.

[Surge89]

You are way off. It has absolutely nothing to do with proteins. HCG and clomid both stimulate the groin to produce testosterone. They both mimic luteinizing hormone which tell the groin to produce testosterone.

Goodness just read this article if you think I'm wrong.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16422830

Yea I meant testosterone sorry.

Good lord argue just to be right and ignore the whole premise of the post.

[YOUR GM]

Mathis' agent says the doctor who prescribed the medicine provided a sworn statement to the league as a part of the NFLPAs "appeal"

— Kyle J. Rodriguez (@ColtsAuth_Kyle)

May 16, 2014

The doctor also provided all medical records, which indicated that the drug was taken only for a short time at the end of last season.

— Kyle J. Rodriguez (@ColtsAuth_Kyle)

May 16, 2014

 

Wow. How was this not taken into consideration before the NFL made their ruling? And if it was, I'd like to know what their rebuttal to such a defense was

[Superman]

Who is Mathis' physician? The medication he took would clearly raise his testosterone levels. So either his physician is a dumb*** (which is quite possible if he graduated from IU med school), or the physician actually told him about the testosterone increase..and Robert took it anyways. I honestly don't know how a physician wouldn't realize this. This hurts. I honestly hope that this was a true accident.

 

On the bright side, though, everybody on the forum was complaining about all the mock drafts, and nothing to talk about in the offseason...well now we have something to talk about. Always trying to find the silver lining lol.

 

Clomid is the banned substance. Even without elevated testosterone, the Clomid would be enough for a violation.

[Leon]

so how soon before we make a move for an OLB? 

[deedub75]

Yea I meant testosterone sorry.

Good lord argue just to be right and ignore the whole premise of the post.

 

Not arguing just to be right.  I have much experience with both of these drugs.  I'm just saying that there is absolutely no way I would bet my career on a doctor telling me that a drug used to increase testosterone in men will not cause problems with the NFL's PED policy.  The doctor doesn't work for the NFL or the NFLPA.  A simple phone call to Mathis' agent or to the NFLPA BEFORE he even filled the prescription would have prevented all of this. 

[Superman]

Wow. How was this not taken into consideration before the NFL made their ruling? And if it was, I'd like to know what their rebuttal to such a defense was

 

Playing devil's advocate, they can't rule out the possibility that Mathis paid the doctor to give a sworn testimony. He stands to lose over $700K and his reputation. A quarter million to give a sworn statement? Who knows...

 

I don't think the NFL should make rulings based on sworn statements of third parties, just because they are medical professionals. 

[Girlzarefanstoo]

My heart goes out to Mathis and his wife - it's tough dealing with infertility, let alone publicly now.  I personally give him the benefit of the doubt.  Big bummer for the Colts though... 

[John Waylon]

I have been a staunch defender of Goodell and that he usually does what is in the best interest of the game. This, though, is indefensible. I am very disappointed in the commissioner's office for their stance on this subject. Very. 

 

It seems Mathis has presented every bit of evidence to show that this is a wrongful punishment, but they just won't be reasonable. 

 

I am very disappointed in Goodell over this. 

 

The NFLPA needs to put their big boy pants on and step up and defend their own in this case. 

[Boilermaker]

Clomid is the banned substance. Even without elevated testosterone, the Clomid would be enough for a violation.

Yes, but not every physician will be aware that Clomid specifically is a banned substance. The increase testosterone levels, on the other hand, would be a huge red flag to any doctor...regardless if they follow sports or not.

[CanuckColt]

For PED's you are suspended for your first offense, so this was Mathis' first time testing positive. 

Yikes!  Very harsh.

[Dustin]

so how soon before we make a move for an OLB?

I'll take 1 Tamba Hali please.

[YOUR GM]

Maybe he's not a lock, but I do think that's a safe assumption. I also think it makes sense to consider Newsome more ready than Adongo. Time will tell...

 

I don't know. I don't think Adongo would still be on the roster right now if he was just some cute experiment Grigson is keeping around for a bit. I think whatever he's shown the staff was enough for him to at least be considered in the hunt to back up Werner/Walden. I think the hype around Newsome being the most recently acquired pass rusher has people placing higher expectations on him than they probably should. He was a 5th round draft pick, not a 1st, 2nd or 3rd

[Nobody]

If it's truly a fertility drug then the league has to overturn it, right?

Can't hate the man for wanting to make a lil Mathis.

[NewEra]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that there are men who take clomid strictly to get pregnant. Not all men take it on a cycle. Believe me.....I know.

Thx for the info. I actually did not know that. There's stuff that you can take that's completely legal which you "could" use clomid as your pct as it's safer and more reliable. Didn't know they actually use it to help in pregnancy. Learn something new everyday ;)

[UKCOLT17]

I'll take 1 Tamba Hali please.

 

justin houston. hali is older so they mite trade him and they havent got alot of cap space

[pacolts56]

Well...you break the rules and you gotta pay the price.

Congrats on the baby to Robert and the Mrs....and hopefully someone else can step up and maim Manning and Foles.