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Colts Use 5th year option on Castonzo


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Lol! I think the ridiculous analogy that I made was on par with the idea of replacing an improving young LT with a journeyman G who's injured almost as much as he's active.

We're so far apart on this discussion that it's probably best if we agree to disagree and move on. Good luck, I'm sure there are some people who agree with you.

 

 

I don't think it will ever happen, and I'm not suggesting that they really will do it. I'm merely saying Reitz is a better pass blocker than Costanzo, and that Costanzo would probably be a very good guard or right tackle. The only way Costanzo will be moved is if we land an obvious upgrade, I understand that. I'm just saying that, just because LT is not the weakest position on our line at the moment does not mean we shouldn't be looking for an upgrade at some point. And tweaking the line is actually a cost effective way to upgrade multiple positions, if those players excel in their new positions. It has happened numerous times before and it will happen again. Your comparison can't even really be considered an analogy, in my opinion. Moving a franchise QB to linebacker is not even remotely in the same ballpark as moving a middle of the pack left tackle to guard or right tackle. I'd say it would be on par with trying to convert a 3-4 DE to a 4-3 DT, if anything.

 

Also, if we're going to hold out and penalize every player that has ever struggled with injuries on this team, we probably wouldn't be able to field half an NFL roster right now. Reitz is good when he's healthy, and he's just as much an OT as he is a guard. I'd actually say he should probably be an OT exclusively, because he struggles blocking the run and excels in pass protection  

 

 

But very well. Agree to disagree

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I don't think it will ever happen, and I'm not suggesting that they really will do it. I'm merely saying Reitz is a better pass blocker than Costanzo, and that Costanzo would probably be a very good guard or right tackle. The only way Costanzo will be moved is if we land an obvious upgrade, I understand that. I'm just saying that, just because LT is not the weakest position on our line at the moment does not mean we shouldn't be looking for an upgrade at some point. And tweaking the line is actually a cost effective way to upgrade multiple positions, if those players excel in their new positions. It has happened numerous times before and it will happen again. Your comparison can't even really be considered an analogy, in my opinion. Moving a franchise QB to linebacker is not even remotely in the same ballpark as moving a middle of the pack left tackle to guard or right tackle. I'd say it would be on par with trying to convert a 3-4 DE to a 4-3 DT, if anything.

 

Also, if we're going to hold out and penalize every player that has ever struggled with injuries on this team, we probably wouldn't be able to field half an NFL roster right now. Reitz is good when he's healthy, and he's just as much an OT as he is a guard. I'd actually say he should probably be an OT exclusively, because he struggles blocking the run and excels in pass protection  

 

 

But very well. Agree to disagree

 

 

I agree, that both joe and anthony are similiar talents, but joe cannot stay healthy and this does give pause to putting greater faith in him. As of now, joe's a capable guard with the ability to play tackle, if need be. I think we're fortunate to have this insurance policy that is big joe. I think his production would mirror anthony's (if givin' an opportunity) , i really do. But injuries are a huge red flag to me.

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What was hyperbolic about what I said? I stated an unpopular opinion. That doesn't make what I said hyperbole. Just stick to your tiresome "dear god" shtick and carry on, thanks

 

Basically all of your points are over the top.  So tell me if this statement from you last week is a combo of hyperbole backed by a logical argument.  Paraphrasing here but you said that Grigson would show you that he is SERIOUS about building the o'line if he were to have signed someone that could start on the majority of teams in the league.  So by that statement a GM can only be serious about building a team if he does so in a way that you agree with? 

 

Please show me the logical connection in that statement. 

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Basically all of your points are over the top.  So tell me if this statement from you last week is a combo of hyperbole backed by a logical argument.  Paraphrasing here but you said that Grigson would show you that he is SERIOUS about building the o'line if he were to have signed someone that could start on the majority of teams in the league.  So by that statement a GM can only be serious about building a team if he does so in a way that you agree with? 

 

Please show me the logical connection in that statement. 

 

 

The irony. You paraphrase and use hyberbole to somehow prove I am guilty of frequent hyperbole. Your bolded conclusion is a total exaggeration and mischaracterization of anything I actually said in that thread. Way to discredit yourself 

 

And I did back up my statement with logical arguments in that very thread. If you care to continue that discussion, you're more than welcome to revive the topic in that thread, not here 

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I agree, that both joe and anthony are similiar talents, but joe cannot stay healthy and this does give pause to putting greater faith in him. As of now, joe's a capable guard with the ability to play tackle, if need be. I think we're fortunate to have this insurance policy that is big joe. I think his production would mirror anthony's (if givin' an opportunity) , i really do. But injuries are a huge red flag to me.

 

I don't think Joe is the answer at left tackle at all. I just feel like he could play the position comparable to what Costanzo is right now, freeing up Costanzo to shore up the interior line. But yes, Reitz's injury struggles are well documented and I don't think he could be counted on to start 16 games. Costanzo is durable, if nothing else. I commend him for that much. I hope, as coffeedrinker said earlier, he really is turning that corner and improves his play significantly. I'm rooting for him to be our franchise caliber left tackle, but I still call a spade a spade. He's not there yet, and people celebrating him as if he's anything more than a slightly above average tackle at the moment is comical to me

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Linemen convert to other positions all the time. Heck, Jason Peters (regarded as one of the best left tackles in the league) didn't play a lick of tackle in high school or college. He was a D-linemen, converted to tight end, converted to all-pro/pro bowl left tackle. Just because the Colts staff doesn't have the nads to try and shuffle things up when the line is struggling, does not mean it's a horrible idea to try and build an optimal lineup by playing to the roster's strengths. I'm willing to bet that if Costanzo doesn't stick here long term, somebody will try him out as either a guard or right tackle. The Vikings did it with Charlie Johnson after we let him walk a few years ago. 

 

Switching positions along the O and D lines is not really ground breaking stuff. It's actually becoming more and more common. The Ravens won their most recent superbowl in large part because of the shuffling they did to their O-line right before the playoffs started. I know this isn't madden, but it's also not like i'm suggesting we move him to cornerback, either. I think the learning curve he'd face (if we made that adjustment) is a bit overstated around here by some

Yes moves happen along the oline that is true.  But usually it's usually because the weaknesses the player has will be less noticable or not as big a deal at another position, they don't move them there when; a, they are doing well at their current position and b, their weaknesses are in areas that need to be strengths in the new position.

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All Correct! AC improves every year and will be back for many more to come. Last year he was good if he improves the same amount this year he will be VERY GOOD!

And that is not even mentioning switching from a zone blocking scheme to a man blocking scheme which requires different reads, different footwork, different responsibilities, different technique.

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Yes moves happen along the oline that is true. But usually it's usually because the weaknesses the player has will be less noticable or not as big a deal at another position, they don't move them there when; a, they are doing well at their current position and b, their weaknesses are in areas that need to be strengths in the new position.

I'm not seeing where we disagree on much. I think I just feel like Costanzo is mediocre at his current position whereas you feel he's good. As for his strengths/weaknesses in relation to where they can be best utilized on the line, I think you kinda make my point for me. How would Costanzo not be better in a position(s) that would allow him to further showcase his pull ability and stout run blocking, and hide his subpar pass blocking technique? I think putting him to the right would actually be perfect if we didn't already have a solid right tackle as it is

Anyways, all of this is moot. He's not being moved. I threw an unconventional suggestion out there. I expected the negative feedback. I still believe it to be true, but I hope your viewpoint is correct, and we see improvement this year. That Rams game still sticks out in my head. I understand Robert Quinn makes a lot of players look bad, but Costanzo had a tight end shading Quinn, allowing him more time to get in proper position and still got blown up on that strip sack play. That just can't happen

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The irony. You paraphrase and use hyberbole to somehow prove I am guilty of frequent hyperbole. Your bolded conclusion is a total exaggeration and mischaracterization of anything I actually said in that thread. Way to discredit yourself 

 

And I did back up my statement with logical arguments in that very thread. If you care to continue that discussion, you're more than welcome to revive the topic in that thread, not here 

 

So you are the police of where and what I can post in a given thread?

 

You yourself have admitted that you overstate things.  My pointing it out here is not news to you nor to the rational among the posters in this forum. 

 

I simply find the comment that Grigson is not serious about building an offensive line because he did it differently than you prefer to be the height of comedy.

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I'm not seeing where we disagree on much. I think I just feel like Costanzo is mediocre at his current position whereas you feel he's good. As for his strengths/weaknesses in relation to where they can be best utilized on the line, I think you kinda make my point for me. How would Costanzo not be better in a position(s) that would allow him to further showcase his pull ability and stout run blocking, and hide his subpar pass blocking technique? I think putting him to the right would actually be perfect if we didn't already have a solid right tackle as it is

Anyways, all of this is moot. He's not being moved. I threw an unconventional suggestion out there. I expected the negative feedback. I still believe it to be true, but I hope your viewpoint is correct, and we see improvement this year. That Rams game still sticks out in my head. I understand Robert Quinn makes a lot of players look bad, but Costanzo had a tight end shading Quinn, allowing him more time to get in proper position and still got blown up on that strip sack play. That just can't happen

We just diagree on the whole premise, but outside of that... not much.  And if you think that a guy who has the weakness of upper body strength and moving him to a position where upper body strength is a top 3 needed attribute is making your point for you then I would say you don't know what your point is.

 

As far as your one example... that does happen to all LTs and it happens less to AC than most LTs in the league.  You talk about people seeing mediocre as good because of the past LTs but you are doing the same thing... you are expecting 2006 Tarik Glenn production from a 3rd year player.  Do you not remember the early years of Glenn when DEs like Leonard Little, Jason Taylor, etc used to make Glenn look like a bad college player on the field?

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I don't think it will ever happen, and I'm not suggesting that they really will do it. I'm merely saying Reitz is a better pass blocker than Costanzo, and that Costanzo would probably be a very good guard or right tackle. The only way Costanzo will be moved is if we land an obvious upgrade, I understand that. I'm just saying that, just because LT is not the weakest position on our line at the moment does not mean we shouldn't be looking for an upgrade at some point. And tweaking the line is actually a cost effective way to upgrade multiple positions, if those players excel in their new positions. It has happened numerous times before and it will happen again. Your comparison can't even really be considered an analogy, in my opinion. Moving a franchise QB to linebacker is not even remotely in the same ballpark as moving a middle of the pack left tackle to guard or right tackle. I'd say it would be on par with trying to convert a 3-4 DE to a 4-3 DT, if anything.

 

Also, if we're going to hold out and penalize every player that has ever struggled with injuries on this team, we probably wouldn't be able to field half an NFL roster right now. Reitz is good when he's healthy, and he's just as much an OT as he is a guard. I'd actually say he should probably be an OT exclusively, because he struggles blocking the run and excels in pass protection  

 

 

But very well. Agree to disagree

How do you know Reitz is the better Pass blocker? all we have seen of him is on G, pass blocking as a G is not the same as pass blocking as T. 

I like Reitz a lot, always have, but i think moving Reitz to LT would be a huge mistake. I think power pass rushers will kill him. I think speed rushers can get by him eventually.

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That REALLY isn't saying much, in my opinion. I still think he's not a left tackle. He's good blocking out in space but he is anything but a tactician as a pass blocker. He's just downright bad, at times. Move him inside at guard and bring Reitz in as left tackle until we find a legit anchor at the position. I know I'll probably get flamed for saying that, but I honestly believe Reitz is better suited to be blindside protector than Costanzo. I think Costanzo has a place on this team, but he needs to be moved inside. He's a guard or right tackle, at best

 

Holy Hyperbole batman.  You seriously think Reitz is better for left tackle then Castonzo?  

 

I'll give you that right tackle is his more natural position as he's a better run blocker then pass blocker.  But he makes for a decent left tackle and they are hard to find.  

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Holy Hyperbole batman.  You seriously think Reitz is better for left tackle then Castonzo?  

 

I'll give you that right tackle is his more natural position as he's a better run blocker then pass blocker.  But he makes for a decent left tackle and they are hard to find.  

 

I think the conventional logic is changing. The so-called blindside protector is becoming less of a premium, because teams play so much shotgun and have come up with a lot of different ways to help protect the QB from the backside. And I don't think being a better run blocker than pass blocker automatically equals being a RT instead of a LT. There are issues of footwork and athleticism that restrict when and how you can move players around on the line.

 

Castonzo has a lot of work to do as a pass protector, but I think we should leave him at LT until we have a better option. I don't think his skillset translates to either guard position, so a move would be to RT, and we have a really good RT already (someone that we shouldn't consider moving to any other OL position, and someone we can't cut any time soon due to his contract structure). AC gives up too many sacks, hits and pressures (62 total last year), but I think playcalling is responsible for a third of those over the last two years. The other thing to consider is that he only has three years in the league, with three different coordinators and position coaches. I don't think he's reached his potential yet. He's also had very inconsistent LG play.

 

If he absolutely sucks in 2014, we can cut him prior to 2015. The fifth year option is only guaranteed for injury, not skill. But I think it's a reasonable one year option, and it gives us another year to find a potential replacement, if we don't see the improvement we need to see right away. We could potentially use our first rounder in 2015 on a LT prospect if we wanted. But there's no reason to make any switch with AC right now, IMO. Let the line continue to grow together and see what happens moving forward.

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So you are the police of where and what I can post in a given thread?

 

You yourself have admitted that you overstate things.  My pointing it out here is not news to you nor to the rational among the posters in this forum. 

 

I simply find the comment that Grigson is not serious about building an offensive line because he did it differently than you prefer to be the height of comedy.

 

Look, you can derail whatever thread you want. I think it makes you appear as if you can't really address what i've said by trying to disqualify my posts, attacking my character. Pretty cheap if you ask me, but whatever. And i'm not the police, I'm just letting you know that if you want to further talk to me about the topic.. it will be so in that thread. I already explained my logic in that thread. The fact that you didn't like it is really of no concern to me. You seem to initiate all of our encounters. I couldn't really care any less about your opinion, to be quite honest

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We just diagree on the whole premise, but outside of that... not much.  And if you think that a guy who has the weakness of upper body strength and moving him to a position where upper body strength is a top 3 needed attribute is making your point for you then I would say you don't know what your point is.

 

As far as your one example... that does happen to all LTs and it happens less to AC than most LTs in the league.  You talk about people seeing mediocre as good because of the past LTs but you are doing the same thing... you are expecting 2006 Tarik Glenn production from a 3rd year player.  Do you not remember the early years of Glenn when DEs like Leonard Little, Jason Taylor, etc used to make Glenn look like a bad college player on the field?

 

 

Yeah, you're definitely overselling his upper body strength "issues", for the sake of your argument, i'm assuming. If Mike McGlynn was asked to be our power guard for 2 years (and kept his job), I'm fairly certain Costanzo could be a decent pull guard in any scheme. I'd actually argue that more upper body strength is required at times out of a tackle than a guard. Guards have more opportunities to double team, and they're not on islands against way more athletic 250-280 lb ends and linebackers with a full head of steam trying to bullrush or run by them like tackles are. His abilities would only be magnified in a zone scheme at guard, I feel.

 

And that was only one example, and it happened to Costanzo (not that exact scenario, but being beat in general) more often than it should from a decent left tackle. That is not up for debate, in my opinion. The film speaks for itself. Yes, only 4 sacks surrendered, but with plenty of hurries and hits to go along with them. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect noticeable improvement out of him as a pass blocker. He is still very inconsistent in that area of his game  

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How do you know Reitz is the better Pass blocker? all we have seen of him is on G, pass blocking as a G is not the same as pass blocking as T. 

I like Reitz a lot, always have, but i think moving Reitz to LT would be a huge mistake. I think power pass rushers will kill him. I think speed rushers can get by him eventually.

 

Reitz was drafted and groomed as a tackle, and was moved to guard when he came here because of injuries and has been there ever since. He played snaps at tackle for us last year in preseason (and looked solid) against the 1's. Very limited sample size to declare one way or another if he could start, but he at least showed he's a capable pass blocker at the position, as you're claiming we haven't seen yet

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Reitz was drafted and groomed as a tackle, and was moved to guard when he came here because of injuries and has been there ever since. He played snaps at tackle for us last year in preseason (and looked solid) against the 1's. Very limited sample size to declare one way or another if he could start, but he at least showed he's a capable pass blocker at the position, as you're claiming we haven't seen yet

Still, it's pre-season.  Absolutely meaningless.  Any benefit you'll get from putting Reitz in will be marginal.  I'd rather have Reitz as a utility OL coming in with certain packages and in the event of injury.  He's got better value there.

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That REALLY isn't saying much, in my opinion. I still think he's not a left tackle. He's good blocking out in space but he is anything but a tactician as a pass blocker. He's just downright bad, at times. Move him inside at guard and bring Reitz in as left tackle until we find a legit anchor at the position. I know I'll probably get flamed for saying that, but I honestly believe Reitz is better suited to be blindside protector than Costanzo. I think Costanzo has a place on this team, but he needs to be moved inside. He's a guard or right tackle, at best

His first time since he has been in the NFL going into the next season with the same offense as the year before. Every time he turns his head a new player is there. You will see a different beast in Costanzo this year.   . 

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Well deserved. Castonzo improved a lot from last year and was one of the most underrated LT's in the league. The Giants, Packers, Falcons, Saints, Steerlers, Titans, Panthers and Raiders would love to have a player like Castonzo. He would be a huge upgrade over their starters. I also think he would start over the Lions, Bills, and Chargers LT's if they had to battle it out in training camp. He's the best LT we've had since Tarik Glenn and were fortunate to have him.

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Look, you can derail whatever thread you want. I think it makes you appear as if you can't really address what i've said by trying to disqualify my posts, attacking my character. Pretty cheap if you ask me, but whatever. And i'm not the police, I'm just letting you know that if you want to further talk to me about the topic.. it will be so in that thread. I already explained my logic in that thread. The fact that you didn't like it is really of no concern to me. You seem to initiate all of our encounters. I couldn't really care any less about your opinion, to be quite honest

Dear God...

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To Hire Bruce Arians....

 

Apologies, I don't know how to multi-quote.....   but if you come across my post here, the two quotes below are both from you.  I cut and pasted them.

 

On the one hand, you call Castonzo...

 

"...a middle of the pack left tackle to guard or right tackle."

 

But on the other hand, you call Castonzo...

 

"He's a guard or right tackle, at best"

 

I find these two sentence are not compatible.   I think they're contradictory.   Which is Castonzo?   

 

A guard or right tackle at best?

 

Or a middle of the pack left tackle?

 

I look forward to your response......    (ahhhh....  I think?!)

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To Hire Bruce Arians....

Apologies, I don't know how to multi-quote..... but if you come across my post here, the two quotes below are both from you. I cut and pasted them.

On the one hand, you call Castonzo...

"...a middle of the pack left tackle to guard or right tackle."

But on the other hand, you call Castonzo...

"He's a guard or right tackle, at best"

I find these two sentence are not compatible. I think they're contradictory. Which is Castonzo?

A guard or right tackle at best?

Or a middle of the pack left tackle?

I look forward to your response...... (ahhhh.... I think?!)

If you want to word pinch/bicker, then no, they are not compatable. You're being petty now. You clearly understand my overall premise

How about this,

"Anthony Costanzo's most optimal position(s) on the offensive line, in my opinion, are at right tackle or guard. He is, however, a middle of the pack left tackle, as it stands."

Now would you like to actually argue reasons why you disagree with that assertion (such as physical limitations, messing with continuity, learning curve, lack of necessity), like coffeedrinker and a few others have, or would you like to continue to try and "catch" me by pigeon-holing what I say, or bringing totally unrelated topics into the discussion like someone else has done?...

And I'm.... indifferent to reading your response

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If you want to word pinch/bicker, then no, they are not compatable. You're being petty now. You clearly understand my overall premise

How about this,

"Anthony Costanzo's most optimal position(s) on the offensive line, in my opinion, are at right tackle or guard. He is, however, a middle of the pack left tackle, as it stands."

Now would you like to actually argue reasons why you disagree with that assertion (such as physical limitations, messing with continuity, learning curve, lack of necessity), like coffeedrinker and a few others have, or would you like to continue to try and "catch" me by pigeon-holing what I say, or bringing totally unrelated topics into the discussion like someone else has done?...

And I'm.... indifferent to reading your response

 

Look....

 

It appears we see most everything completely differently.

 

I don't think I'm going to offer you some perspective and you're going to say....  "Oh, I get it now....  I see what you're saying.   I'm going to re-think my view on this..."

 

And the same goes from you to me.     I don't see myself adopting your view of things.

 

So....   no, I don't wish to engage in any debate.

 

I wanted to get your perspective on those two quotes...   you offered it.    Fine.

 

I'm trying to avoid threads where you're engaged in hand to hand combat here....    and you appear to be avoiding me.

 

Probably best for the both of us.....

 

For the record.....  while I don't think Castonzo is elite and I don't know if he'll ever be elite, I think he's good and getting better every year.   His trend line is going up.   And I think the Colts believe that which is why they exercised his 5th year option.    I think his best years are ahead of him.     I think AC is a solid above average LT and getting better.    He may not ever be top-10,  but I think we can win with him as we have the past two years.

 

I suspect you disagree and that's where we can leave it.    We see things differently.   So be it.

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Look....

It appears we see most everything completely differently.

I don't think I'm going to offer you some perspective and you're going to say.... "Oh, I get it now.... I see what you're saying. I'm going to re-think my view on this..."

And the same goes from you to me. I don't see myself adopting your view of things.

So.... no, I don't wish to engage in any debate.

I wanted to get your perspective on those two quotes... you offered it. Fine.

I'm trying to avoid threads where you're engaged in hand to hand combat here.... and you appear to be avoiding me.

Probably best for the both of us.....

I guess where we differ is, I'm not uncomfortable debating, as long as the focus stays on the argument and not about any personal grudges carried over from other threads. And I can acknowledge that someone has made a solid point, even if it is in counter to an assertion I've made. I've actually backed off of my earlier statement that Reitz could start (because of his durability issues) even though I still feel like he's better at pass protection than Costanzo. I threw the suggestion out there knowing full well it will never happen. It sparked an interesting discussion though, so I'm good with that

You seem like a smart guy but if you feel like we need to avoid each other, I'm good with that too.

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Yeah, you're definitely overselling his upper body strength "issues", for the sake of your argument, i'm assuming. If Mike McGlynn was asked to be our power guard for 2 years (and kept his job), I'm fairly certain Costanzo could be a decent pull guard in any scheme. I'd actually argue that more upper body strength is required at times out of a tackle than a guard. Guards have more opportunities to double team, and they're not on islands against way more athletic 250-280 lb ends and linebackers with a full head of steam trying to bullrush or run by them like tackles are. His abilities would only be magnified in a zone scheme at guard, I feel.

 

And that was only one example, and it happened to Costanzo (not that exact scenario, but being beat in general) more often than it should from a decent left tackle. That is not up for debate, in my opinion. The film speaks for itself. Yes, only 4 sacks surrendered, but with plenty of hurries and hits to go along with them. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect noticeable improvement out of him as a pass blocker. He is still very inconsistent in that area of his game  

You're right about one thing.  The film speaks for itself and the film shows he is a young LT that has improved every year, still has room for improvement and doesn't give up as many hurries and hits and you and a few others seem to think.

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You're right about one thing.  The film speaks for itself and the film shows he is a young LT that has improved every year, still has room for improvement and doesn't give up as many hurries and hits and you and a few others seem to think.

 

AC is not on Joe Thomas' level, but he's a rock solid dependable starter who keeps getting better...what more could you ask for from a pick in the 20s?

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AC is not on Joe Thomas' level, but he's a rock solid dependable starter who keeps getting better...what more could you ask for from a pick in the 20s?

He is not on Joe Thomas' level.  And he's not a top 5 LT in the league and there is room for improvement.

 

I just look back at T. Glenn for the Colts.  He was drafted in 1997, he didn't learn how to handle speed rushers until he went against Freeney every day in practice and then was when he because a probowl level player.

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I guess where we differ is, I'm not uncomfortable debating, as long as the focus stays on the argument and not about any personal grudges carried over from other threads. And I can acknowledge that someone has made a solid point, even if it is in counter to an assertion I've made. I've actually backed off of my earlier statement that Reitz could start (because of his durability issues) even though I still feel like he's better at pass protection than Costanzo. I threw the suggestion out there knowing full well it will never happen. It sparked an interesting discussion though, so I'm good with that

You seem like a smart guy but if you feel like we need to avoid each other, I'm good with that too.

 

 

Don't sink to "dear god" level. It's not worth it. They will drag you down. But you're right, anthony's nothing more than a top 15 tackle. A good kid...solid, as in average. I like him as a right tackle, but no way is he elite.

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Well deserved. Castonzo improved a lot from last year and was one of the most underrated LT's in the league. The Giants, Packers, Falcons, Saints, Steerlers, Titans, Panthers and Raiders would love to have a player like Castonzo. He would be a huge upgrade over their starters. I also think he would start over the Lions, Bills, and Chargers LT's if they had to battle it out in training camp. He's the best LT we've had since Tarik Glenn and were fortunate to have him.

 

 

You're nuts. Reiff had a good rookie year, and Glenn and Dunlap were studs last year..... And are you implying that Castonzo is better than Jordan Gross?

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You're nuts. Reiff had a good rookie year, and Glenn and Dunlap were studs last year..... And are you implying that Castonzo is better than Jordan Gross?

 

You mean Jordan Gross who just announced he's retiring?

 

That Jordan Gross?

 

Look.....   in another post, you yourself already called him a mid-level left tackle.   That puts him somewhere roughly in the range of 11-22 out of 32 possible starting LT's.

 

So,  he's got to be better than...   somebody?!

 

Even if you think he's at the bottom end of the range,  he's still better than 10 other guys.   

 

Why you feel the need to go player by player is mystifying to me?    The Colts picked up his option.   They like him whether you do or not.    And from where I sit nearly 2000 miles away, when they can sign him to a long term contract -- they will.

 

And they'll keep him right where he is......    at left tackle.

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You mean Jordan Gross who just announced he's retiring?

 

That Jordan Gross?

 

Look.....   in another post, you yourself already called him a mid-level left tackle.   That puts him somewhere roughly in the range of 11-22 out of 32 possible starting LT's.

 

So,  he's got to be better than...   somebody?!

 

Even if you think he's at the bottom end of the range,  he's still better than 10 other guys.   

 

Why you feel the need to go player by player is mystifying to me?    The Colts picked up his option.   They like him whether you do or not.    And from where I sit nearly 2000 miles away, when they can sign him to a long term contract -- they will.

 

And they'll keep him right where he is......    at left tackle.

 

I didn't know about Gross' retirement. My mistake 

 

As for the rest of your post, you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say he wasn't better than anyone. You need to seriously get over whatever grudge you have with me, because you're not even fully reading my posts anymore before you're foaming at the mouth ready to chime in.  My post was in reference to the BOLDED teams that the previous poster said would love to have Castonzo over their current starters. That's not true, in my opinion. Cordy Glenn is bordering on pro-bowl level of play and Dunlap was in the upper half of the league of left tackles, probably top 10. Riley Reiff had a solid 2nd season last year and I doubt the Lions would start Castonzo over him at this point, either

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Don't sink to "dear god" level. It's not worth it. They will drag you down. But you're right, anthony's nothing more than a top 15 tackle. A good kid...solid, as in average. I like him as a right tackle, but no way is he elite.

This notion that you can put a LT on the right or vice versa and expect them to play to a pro standard is incorrect. It's like asking someone who's right handed to use their left. It's different movement and a different technique.

I never played Oline, and don't claim to be an expert, but I've played some football and been around these guys. I'm sure we have some ex OTs here that can back me up.

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This notion that you can put a LT on the right or vice versa and expect them to play to a pro standard is incorrect. It's like asking someone who's right handed to use their left. It's different movement and a different technique.

I never played Oline, and don't claim to be an expert, but I've played some football and been around these guys. I'm sure we have some ex OTs here that can back me up.

Most linemen are trained from high school to play multiple positions now. Castonzo himself has played right tackle in college. The majority of our linemen are, in fact, still on the roster because of the versatility they possess as 2-3 position players. Tweaking the line is becoming a more common thing in the league. There are multiple examples just over the past few seasons, alone

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Most linemen are trained from high school to play multiple positions now. Castonzo himself has played right tackle in college. The majority of our linemen are, in fact, still on the roster because of the versatility they possess as 2-3 position players. Tweaking the line is becoming a more common thing in the league. There are multiple examples just over the past few seasons, alone

Sure, we do it to mitigate risk, but it doesn't mean a guy is as good at another position than his natural one. Especially at the pro level. I can write left handed in a pinch, but you don't want to read it.

You mostly tweak down, if you get my meaning. Left T to RT usually because they can't handle LT.

Along that note, I'll be interested in seeing if Thornton improves if they move him back to his natural side.

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I didn't know about Gross' retirement. My mistake 

 

As for the rest of your post, you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say he wasn't better than anyone. You need to seriously get over whatever grudge you have with me, because you're not even fully reading my posts anymore before you're foaming at the mouth ready to chime in.  My post was in reference to the BOLDED teams that the previous poster said would love to have Castonzo over their current starters. That's not true, in my opinion. Cordy Glenn is bordering on pro-bowl level of play and Dunlap was in the upper half of the league of left tackles, probably top 10. Riley Reiff had a solid 2nd season last year and I doubt the Lions would start Castonzo over him at this point, either

 

HBA....

 

What planet do you live on?

 

Just the other day I said I was trying to stay out of threads where you're doing your typical hand to hand combat thing that you embrace so much....   in other words, I'm mostly ignoring you...   and now you think I'm "foaming at the mouth"...    and you think I should "get over any grudge I have for you"...

 

Trust me, if I was foaming and had a grudge,  you'd know it in no uncertain terms.

 

There is no one here who makes me foam at the mouth.    Not you.    Not JShipp.     Not anyone.  

 

If I had a grudge, I'd respond to every post you make.   You'd feel like I was stalking you.    But I don't do any of that.    I rarely engage with you.

 

If you find that I'm mis-reading your intentions,  then you might want to consider being more clear in your meaning.   As when you called Castonzo a mid-level left tackle and then said he's at best a right tackle or a guard.    If you're more clear,  I'll understand.  I'm a reasonably bright guy.

 

If you'll notice,  I try to never make any claims about any player over who is better than who.    I try to make broader claims....  Andrew Luck is one of the best....   This player is good....   that player is very good...   but I try not to get into direct comparisons because inevitably it leads to what you got yourself into with another poster....    a debate over which player is better, A or B...  X or Y.     I hate those discussions.   They're pointless to me.

 

I try to stay focused on the Big Picture.   And that is that AC is good enough for us to win with.   He may not be elite, and I'm not sure he'll ever be elite...  But he's getting better every year, and we can win with him....   the franchise likes him...    they wouldn't have picked up his 5th year option otherwise....   and he'll likely be the Colts' left tackle for the rest of this decade.

 

To sum up.....  I have no grudge with you.   I'm not foaming at the mouth.    We see things completely differently.   We take a different approach on how we post.    That's fine too.   From time to time I'll ask about those differences.    And you should feel free to ask about things I write that make you wonder how crazy I am.   You wouldn't be the first person to think that!    I'm totally fine with people not agreeing with me.

 

We should be good.    This is an exciting time of the year for all fans! 

 

Hopefully, with the draft,  the Colts address the concerns that many of us have....   OL, Safety, Corner,  Edge Rush...  not necessarily i any specific order....    hopefully in a little more than a week,  we're all talking about how pleased we are with Grigson and how much better the roster looks after the draft...

 

Peace.......    :thmup:

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HBA....

 

What planet do you live on?

 

Just the other day I said I was trying to stay out of threads where you're doing your typical hand to hand combat thing that you embrace so much....   in other words, I'm mostly ignoring you...   and now you think I'm "foaming at the mouth"...    and you think I should "get over any grudge I have for you"...

 

Trust me, if I was foaming and had a grudge,  you'd know it in no uncertain terms.

 

There is no one here who makes me foam at the mouth.    Not you.    Not JShipp.     Not anyone.  

 

If I had a grudge, I'd respond to every post you make.   You'd feel like I was stalking you.    But I don't do any of that.    I rarely engage with you.

 

If you find that I'm mis-reading your intentions,  then you might want to consider being more clear in your meaning.   As when you called Castonzo a mid-level left tackle and then said he's at best a right tackle or a guard.    If you're more clear,  I'll understand.  I'm a reasonably bright guy.

 

If you'll notice,  I try to never make any claims about any player over who is better than who.    I try to make broader claims....  Andrew Luck is one of the best....   This player is good....   that player is very good...   but I try not to get into direct comparisons because inevitably it leads to what you got yourself into with another poster....    a debate over which player is better, A or B...  X or Y.     I hate those discussions.   They're pointless to me.

 

I try to stay focused on the Big Picture.   And that is that AC is good enough for us to win with.   He may not be elite, and I'm not sure he'll ever be elite...  But he's getting better every year, and we can win with him....   the franchise likes him...    they wouldn't have picked up his 5th year option otherwise....   and he'll likely be the Colts' left tackle for the rest of this decade.

 

To sum up.....  I have no grudge with you.   I'm not foaming at the mouth.    We see things completely differently.   We take a different approach on how we post.    That's fine too.   From time to time I'll ask about those differences.    And you should feel free to ask about things I write that make you wonder how crazy I am.   You wouldn't be the first person to think that!    I'm totally fine with people not agreeing with me.

 

We should be good.    This is an exciting time of the year for all fans! 

 

Hopefully, with the draft,  the Colts address the concerns that many of us have....   OL, Safety, Corner,  Edge Rush...  not necessarily i any specific order....    hopefully in a little more than a week,  we're all talking about how pleased we are with Grigson and how much better the roster looks after the draft...

 

Peace.......    :thmup:

 

 

Listen, it's not that deep. This doesn't need to turn into a long exchange. Don't misquote me or put words in my mouth, bottomline

 

  • I never said that Castonzo was not better than anyone, as you implied I was saying. That's you creating a strawman

 

  •  There was no contradiction in my prior posts. If it was misinterpreted, that's of your own doing. I see no direct correlation between me saying, "Castonzo is better at right tackle or guard, at best.." to me also saying, "..he's a middle of the pack left tackle." That's you once again looking for an argument by taking snippets of 2 totally different posts of mine and deliberately trying to paint them as if i'm saying something contradictory. I even went on to clarify my exact thoughts by composing a summary sentence in response to your accusation of my posts being contradictory, and you're still in here trying to argue about it.

 

  •  I said you were "foaming at the mouth" because you, once again, interjected yourself into one of my exchanges, and then proceeded to make claims about my post that simply are not true. If you would stop doing that, I'd have no problem with you.

 

 

And I hope Grigson aces this draft, as well. We in a infuse of talent at multiple positions, with a limited number of picks

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That REALLY isn't saying much, in my opinion. I still think he's not a left tackle. He's good blocking out in space but he is anything but a tactician as a pass blocker. He's just downright bad, at times. Move him inside at guard and bring Reitz in as left tackle until we find a legit anchor at the position. I know I'll probably get flamed for saying that, but I honestly believe Reitz is better suited to be blindside protector than Costanzo. I think Costanzo has a place on this team, but he needs to be moved inside. He's a guard or right tackle, at best

Dear God,

Thank you for not allowing this person to make actual decisions for the team I love.

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