Post Costa Retires Mock

[James]

This is all provided we don't sign a veteran C in FA. Khaled Holmes may be the answer. The coaches seem high on him, but we need a quality alternative in case Holmes doesn't have what it takes.

 

 

59. Weston Richburg, C, Colorado State

 

O-line needs major updrading. We're all aware of that. And Grigson has stated he wants to create a "cauldron of competition". Well, what's a better way to do it than adding the best center in the draft? Having two young centers in Richburg and Holmes competing for the starting job is positive both short and longterm.

Giving Luck a young center to form a connection with, his own Jeff Saturday if you will, is critical for the future of the o-line, and Richburg has the athleticism, quickness and strength to play in our power blocking scheme. He could gain some more weight, but otherwise he has all the attributes required.

 

Many will want a safety at this point, and if Jimmie Ward unexpectedly falls to our pick in the 2nd round then by all means draft him, but there are going to be quality safeties available in the later rounds whereas the projected middle to late round centers (and guards) don't strike me as players that can step right in and compete for starting jobs. I don't rate Bodine, Stork, Larsen. For me, they are just guys. 

 

 

90. Pierre Desir, CB, Lindenwood

 

We re-signed our number one CB in Vontae Davis, and Butler is solid in the slot, but with the injury prone Toler we need a young, quality player who can compete and eventually take over from Toler.

Desir needs some work, but he has the potential to be a number one CB. Wouldn't that be awesome? Having two number one caliber CBs? I know this is a popular narrative right now, but let's do what the Seahawks have done. Let's beef up the secondary with this 6-1, 198 beast.

 

 

166. Ahmad Dixon, S, Baylor

 

He is a little stiff, which will make him drop. Luckily for us, he falls all the way to 166 where we pick him up. Get him in the mix with Landry, Howell and let's see who comes out on top. 

 

 

203. Aaron Colvin, CB, Oklahoma State

 

We continue to bolster our secondary. Could easily be gone before our pick, but if he's that we draft him and give him the Chapman treatment. If Toler keeps getting injured I suspect he'll be gone after the 2014 season.

Vontae Davis, Pierre Desir (with a year under his belt), Aaron Colvin will be our outside CBs. Butler (if re-signed), Price + whoever else we get will compete for the remaining roster spots.

 

 

232. Brandon Thomas, OG/OT, Clemson

 

I know, I know. This goes against what I said in the beginning, taking o-line men in later round. Thomas is the exception. He'll be another player to go the Chapman route. Let's face it.. 7 rounders are not going to play right away anyway/first season. And the margin between these 7 round players and UDFA are quite small. They are both expected to be camp bodies and MAYBE potential depth. By that logic drafting potential starters like Colvin and Thomas, even if they are injured and can't play their first year, will be much more benifitial for us long-term. We need players who can make an impact as starters, not players like Justice Cunningham, Kerwynn Williams, Tim Fugger etc who wont make a huge impact.

 

[12isthenew18]

We must address the front 7

[RealityIsLuck]

Dixon, And Thomas are stretches. I Like it, But I agree and think we need OLB or NT, and Don't think we'll draft 2 CB's.

[Defjamz26]

You guys need to let this Center thing go. We're not drafting one early. Period. It's probably Holmes as the starter. Its not going to happen just because we want it to happen. Look at the guys we're bringing in for visits and workouts, none of them have been centers.

[Superman]

My post-Costa mock is the same as my pre-Costa mock.

[Nobody]

Really not a fan

[James]

We must address the front 7

 

I don't think it's that important right now compared to our other needs; o-line and secondary. We have a full draft in 2015 where we can go pass rusher in the 1st and 2nd round. Furthermore in the 2015 league year we have the cap space to sign another quality player for our front 7 (like Arthur Jones). I don't worry about that.

 

We added Arthur Jones who can get get pressure as a 3-4 DE. Mathis will stil get 15+ sacks. Walden is Walden, solid.. but nothing more than that. Freeman provided good pass rush from the inside. Werner has another year in the system and an actual NFL offseason to get stronger and better at is craft. I expect 5+ sacks.  He actually performed better than other rookie pass rushers. Let's just wait and see what we have in him. Adding another pass rusher in the draft would created competition, so I can certainly see the logic though. I just feel like we have to choose side here.

 

Remember Grigson's first draft?. A lot of people freaked out because the defense was not addressed. We went offense, offense, offense and more offense. Well, let's try that again now - only by going heavy on defense. It worked well the last time.

[James]

My post-Costa mock is the same as my pre-Costa mock.

 

I know Holmes is penciled in as the starter, but why not create competition? That's what Grigson said he would, thus meaning Holmes wouldn't be guaranteed a starting spot after all. If Grigson choose to spend a 2nd or even 3rd round on a center, everything changes.

[James]

Really not a fan

 

Why?

[James]

Dixon, And Thomas are stretches. I Like it, But I agree and think we need OLB or NT, and Don't think we'll draft 2 CB's.

 

Agree with Dixon, but you never know. This draft is unusual quality wise, and even in other years players drop all the time. Shariff Floyd last year is a good example of someone in the first one dropping. It could happen, but most likely will not. Thomas? Why? Where do you think he'll go?

NT, we can sign cheap FA like Franklin. Go get our future NT and OLB in next year's draft in which we have all our picks. Or FA.

 

The Colts still have multiple holes, and you can't fix everything in one draft. Bar the Richburg pick, that I feel is critical, I hope Grigson does like he did in his first draft and just go heavy on one side of the ball. It worked well that last time.

[Superman]

I know Holmes is penciled in as the starter, but why not create competition? That's what Grigson said he would, thus meaning Holmes wouldn't be guaranteed a starting spot after all. If Grigson choose to spend a 2nd or even 3rd round on a center, everything changes.

 

Create competition with a similar level move, not using our first pick in the draft on a one-man position where we just drafted a potential starter last year. Sign a mid-tier FA, or a late round pick or UDFA. Not #59 on Weston Richburg. I fail to see how Costa's retirement affects our draft strategy one bit, particularly in the second round.

[Superman]

Remember Grigson's first draft?. A lot of people freaked out because the defense was not addressed. We went offense, offense, offense and more offense. Well, let's try that again now - only by going heavy on defense. It worked well the last time.

 

How does that coincide with you mocking a center to us in the second round?

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

You know what, I wouldn't pout about a draft like this at all. Adds depth and competition to the O-line and adds players who fit immediate needs in the secondary.

[James]

How does that coincide with you mocking a center to us in the second round?

 

It doesn't. But I just stated "Bar the Richburg pick", so yeah it wouldn't be completely like his first draft, but still with emphasis on one side of the ball.

[RealityIsLuck]

Agree with Dixon, but you never know. This draft is unusual quality wise, and even in other years players drop all the time. Shariff Floyd last year is a good example of someone in the first one dropping. It could happen, but most likely will not. Thomas? Why? Where do you think he'll go?

NT, we can sign cheap FA like Franklin. Go get our future NT and OLB in next year's draft in which we have all our picks. Or FA.

 

The Colts still have multiple holes, and you can't fix everything in one draft. Bar the Richburg pick, that I feel is critical, I hope Grigson does like he did in his first draft and just go heavy on one side of the ball. It worked well that last time.

I feel a team will Snatch Thomas in the late 5th. 

[Superman]

It doesn't. But I just stated "Bar the Richburg pick", so yeah it wouldn't be completely like his first draft, but still with emphasis on one side of the ball.

 

I'm still a fan of trading back. Then we can use a 4th or a 5th on a lineman who has some potential at center or guard. But we can use our first two picks on defense. I would love to get McGill and Bailey in the 3rd round. But taking a center in the second is very knee-jerk.

[James]

Create competition with a similar level move, not using our first pick in the draft on a one-man position where we just drafted a potential starter last year. Sign a mid-tier FA, or a late round pick or UDFA. Not #59 on Weston Richburg. I fail to see how Costa's retirement affects our draft strategy one bit, particularly in the second round.

Similar level move? Richburg is a better prospect compared to Holmes coming out. Although he was a top prospect that particular year, Holmes still ended up as a 4th round pick, Richburg could go in the 1st and will surely be gone by the end of the 2nd. There's a vast difference. Grigson wants to create competition. He has said so himself, and do you honestly think a mid-tier FA or late round pick will provide that? I don't think so. It woudn't really be competition, would it? With the qualities Richburg has, it would be a legitimate competition.

[ReMeDy]

 

"Hi Colts nation, its your boy, Richburg! Thanks for drafting me in the first round! Before I forget... I wanted to say I'm retiring to spend time with my family! I have a relative with tendonitis and my boy Costa promised me his retirement money. Thanks for being so understanding. That's why I love my Colts! Thanks for the warm wishes!"

[NewColtsFan]

I don't understand why, when the probable back-up center up and retires,  we now have to change our draft plan to make Center the number one priority.

 

Costa was likely the back-up to Holmes.     We still have Holmes.    So, why do we now have to take a center in the 2nd Round?

 

I think we'll go defense with at least our first two picks -- whatever they wind up being -- and use a mid-round (4th or 5th) round pick on a lineman.    A center who can also play guard, or a guard who can also play center.

 

As Superman said in a post,   the post-Costa mock should be the same as the pre-Costa mock.

[James]

I'm still a fan of trading back. Then we can use a 4th or a 5th on a lineman who has some potential at center or guard. But we can use our first two picks on defense. I would love to get McGill and Bailey in the 3rd round. But taking a center in the second is very knee-jerk.

 

That's where we differ. I don't want potential at center. I want someone to come in and provide legitimate competition at the center position. If Richburg is BPA and fits the "cauldron of competition mantra" why is it knee-jerk?  I agree that a trade back would be optimal, but what could we get back for that pick?

And I too like McGill and Bailey, wouldn't mind drafting them both if possible. 

[akcolt]

I really don't think we are drafting another rookie  C to compete with our 1 yr  rookie C. Grigs has said C is not a spot he would want to start a rookie. Look for a vet to come in I hope he gets Goodwin seems like the perfect match to me.

 

There are the Cook brothers Ryan started 4/5 yrs for the Bengals and Kyle is recovering from a back injury that kept him out last year he has experience playing G as well not sure on his injury status.

 

Don't see how we don't sign Goodwin unless Grigs has his eye on someone after June 1st cuts.

[Superman]

Similar level move? Richburg is a better prospect compared to Holmes coming out. Although he was a top prospect that particular year, Holmes still ended up as a 4th round pick, Richburg could go in the 1st and will surely be gone by the end of the 2nd. There's a vast difference. Grigson wants to create competition. He has said so himself, and do you honestly think a mid-tier FA or late round pick will provide that? I don't think so. It woudn't really be competition, would it? With the qualities Richburg has, it would be a legitimate competition.

 

Here's how you do it, then. You cut Holmes, trade into the first, that way you know you can get Richburg. Might as well get the guy you really want, and get rid of the guy that you obviously never intend to give a real chance. Just write last year's 4th rounder off entirely, it's a loss. 

 

Holmes was a 4th rounder primarily because he was injured. Probably would have been a late 2nd or 3rd rounder if not for that, which is pretty much what Richburg was considered up until a month ago. But with Martin falling, Richburg has risen. Either way, it doesn't matter. Drafting a center now is a waste. Either you draft someone who will be buried behind Holmes, or you bury Holmes. Center is a one-man position, barring injury. Drafting two guys in back to back years to play that same one-man position is fairly ludicrous, especially when you spent a fairly valuable pick on a guy last year.

 

Whereas you can sign a veteran like Goodwin, let him compete with Holmes, but keep Holmes penciled in as the starter. You have proven veteran depth, and you still give your young guy first crack.

[James]

I don't understand why, when the probable back-up center up and retires,  we now have to change our draft plan to make Center the number one priority.

 

Costa was likely the back-up to Holmes.     We still have Holmes.    So, why do we now have to take a center in the 2nd Round?

 

I think we'll go defense with at least our first two picks -- whatever they wind up being -- and use a mid-round (4th or 5th) round pick on a lineman.    A center who can also play guard, or a guard who can also play center.

 

As Superman said in a post,   the post-Costa mock should be the same as the pre-Costa mock.

 

I know it's easy to claim, but honestly, the title is misleading as I made this mock in my head way before the news of Costa re-signing. My focus on center was always there, and Richburg or Martin was always my pick. I want a quality and impactful center early.

The title was just my way of sensationalizing it and making my mock draft fit the 'actuality' criteria. Costa or no Costa has no influence on my Richburg pick, because as we all agree on.. Costa was never a threat to Holmes. Holmes was and still is penciled in as the starter. Imo we need to change that by drafting Richburg and created and legitimate caudron of competition.

[Nobody]

Why?

We need a safety early, and not enough defenders who can contribute.

[Superman]

That's where we differ. I don't want potential at center. I want someone to come in and provide legitimate competition at the center position. If Richburg is BPA and fits the "cauldron of competition mantra" why is it knee-jerk?  I agree that a trade back would be optimal, but what could we get back for that pick?

And I too like McGill and Bailey, wouldn't mind drafting them both if possible. 

 

Your thread title illustrates why it's knee-jerk.

 

The "cauldron of competition" boils at a much lower temperature for a position like center. Reason being that you usually only carry 9 linemen on the active roster (and center is usually the position with no direct backup), and then when you dress 7 guys on Sunday, you relegate one of your backup guards to emergency center duty. So even if your starting center is playing terrible football and you want to bench him, you can't bring his "backup" in, because his backup is in street clothes. Once you name a starter, that's your guy, until you decide to bench him or he gets hurt and can't play in the next game. 

 

You want your "cauldron of competition" to result in usable depth after camp and preseason. I'd rather draft a guy like Joel Bitonio who can play three or maybe four positions, and creates a premium for himself to make the final roster AND dress on Sundays. I'd be more on board with drafting him at #59, because he actually will create competition, and can play himself into the lineup. A handful of snaps here, some 6th lineman there, emergency center duties from time to time, and now you have a versatile guy with "potential at center" who can fill almost any gap that arises on gameday. He's not just stuck on the bench or in street clothes if he loses the camp battle, waiting for the starter to suck or get hurt.

 

We're talking about a premium draft pick at #59. You want premium impact, and you want it now. If you can't get that kind of impact along with a BPA pick, then read the entire board, trade down, and come back for the less premium positions in later rounds. You don't keep drafting the same non-premium position season after season. You have to give the young guys you draft a chance. Drafting Richburg either takes a chance away from Holmes, or it puts Richburg in the same position Holmes was in last season. It's a waste.

[Defjamz26]

I don't understand why, when the probable back-up center up and retires,  we now have to change our draft plan to make Center the number one priority.

 

Costa was likely the back-up to Holmes.     We still have Holmes.    So, why do we now have to take a center in the 2nd Round?

 

I think we'll go defense with at least our first two picks -- whatever they wind up being -- and use a mid-round (4th or 5th) round pick on a lineman.    A center who can also play guard, or a guard who can also play center.

 

As Superman said in a post,   the post-Costa mock should be the same as the pre-Costa mock.

 

This. I think people are just using the retirement as a way to hop back on the "OMG we need to draft the best center in the draft" train again. It's not happening. I still see the draft going something like this:

 

2nd Round: Deone Bucannon, S

3rd Round: Marcus Roberson CB

4th Round (traded back in the third/or trade away future pick): DeAndre Coleman, DT

5th Round: Brandon Thomas, OG

6th Round: Preston Brown, ILB

7th Round: BA RB

[James]

Your thread title illustrates why it's knee-jerk.

 

The "cauldron of competition" boils at a much lower temperature for a position like center. Reason being that you usually only carry 9 linemen on the active roster (and center is usually the position with no direct backup), and then when you dress 7 guys on Sunday, you relegate one of your backup guards to emergency center duty. So even if your starting center is playing terrible football and you want to bench him, you can't bring his "backup" in, because his backup is in street clothes. Once you name a starter, that's your guy, until you decide to bench him or he gets hurt and can't play in the next game. 

 

You want your "cauldron of competition" to result in usable depth after camp and preseason. I'd rather draft a guy like Joel Bitonio who can play three or maybe four positions, and creates a premium for himself to make the final roster AND dress on Sundays. I'd be more on board with drafting him at #59, because he actually will create competition, and can play himself into the lineup. A handful of snaps here, some 6th lineman there, emergency center duties from time to time, and now you have a versatile guy with "potential at center" who can fill almost any gap that arises on gameday. He's not just stuck on the bench or in street clothes if he loses the camp battle, waiting for the starter to suck or get hurt.

 

We're talking about a premium draft pick at #59. You want premium impact, and you want it now. If you can't get that kind of impact along with a BPA pick, then read the entire board, trade down, and come back for the less premium positions in later rounds. You don't keep drafting the same non-premium position season after season. You have to give the young guys you draft a chance. Drafting Richburg either takes a chance away from Holmes, or it puts Richburg in the same position Holmes was in last season. It's a waste.

 

The title is misleading. Explained it in my post to NewColtsFan.

 

But what you're essentially saying is that we can't keep two centers on the roster if their primary position is center or if they can't play any other position? Holmes can play guard, which would make him fit your criteria of being able to play multiple positions. Then he would be able to contribute on game days as a backup (together with Lance Louis) for both Donald Thomas and Hugh Thornton and as backup for Richburg (I expect him to win the job over Holmes). In other word Holmes would be just as valuable as let's say Nixon and Reitz, who can also only play two positions (G and T). Having a combination of a C/G and G/T is more logical than having two G/T players dressed on game days. Furthermore, there are bound to be injuries (maybe evenseason ending), which would make the Richburg pick seem logical.  We need quality depth, not just guys. If that takes a premium pick to create a competition which then breeds quality depth, then so be it. 

[FalseStart]

2. DaQuan Jones DT

3. Jonathan Dowling SS

5. Watt OG

6. Bullough ILB

7. Tre Boston FS

[BProland85]

We're not taking a center that early, and if we do, god help us. The center class is pretty weak this year, and drafting 2 centers in back to back years isn't smart since we have needs elsewhere.

[NewColtsFan]

I know it's easy to claim, but honestly, the title is misleading as I made this mock in my head way before the news of Costa re-signing. My focus on center was always there, and Richburg or Martin was always my pick. I want a quality and impactful center early.

The title was just my way of sensationalizing it and making my mock draft fit the 'actuality' criteria. Costa or no Costa has no influence on my Richburg pick, because as we all agree on.. Costa was never a threat to Holmes. Holmes was and still is penciled in as the starter. Imo we need to change that by drafting Richburg and created and legitimate caudron of competition.

 

Fair enough.

 

I don't necessarily agree,  but I appreciate the explanation....

 

Thanks!

[MrNLM]

You guys need to let this Center thing go. We're not drafting one early. Period. It's probably Holmes as the starter. Its not going to happen just because we want it to happen. Look at the guys we're bringing in for visits and workouts, none of them have been centers.

To be fair, Costa just up and retired so why would we have brought in Centers for visits and to workout before this point? I could see some visits happening now but, I also agree that I don't think a Center is drafted early.

 

I can see Grigs getting creative with this position after the draft and before TC.

[Combsey]

I know Holmes is penciled in as the starter, but why not create competition? That's what Grigson said he would, thus meaning Holmes wouldn't be guaranteed a starting spot after all. If Grigson choose to spend a 2nd or even 3rd round on a center, everything changes.

We don't have enough picks in this draft to go wasting early ones on a center honestly I feel the same way about wide receive but understand that a little more I guess. People say the colts never have a stout top ten defense I would argue that's because we have normally decided to go offense early in drafts instead of going for quality defensive players especially during the polian era.

[chad72]

Reminds me of my own mock draft a while ago:

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/27678-chad72-mock-draft-for-colts-no-trades-nothing-flashy/?hl=%2Bmock+%2Bdraft

[Defjamz26]

To be fair, Costa just up and retired so why would we have brought in Centers for visits and to workout before this point? I could see some visits happening now but, I also agree that I don't think a Center is drafted early.

 

I can see Grigs getting creative with this position after the draft and before TC.

 

Because taking a center that early would imply that Center was a big need before Costa retired. After all, it was clear to see that Costa was just a backup anyways. You don't just draft a center in the 2nd just because your backup retired. That would imply that Center was a big issue they wanted to address anyways. I think they were confident in what they had at Center before, and are still sticking with that plan. That's why they haven't been bringing in Centers.

 

I doubt they're going to just start working out Centers left and right because Costa retire. They'll just get a decent FA to "compete". As for competition, some of the best centers go undrafted. We can get a UDFA guy and stick him on the practice squad.

[markabrown96]

I like Desir pick. Our CBs are injury prone and Butler is a FA after the season

[BOTT]

Where is the post losing Cassius Vaughn in FA draft?

[Defjamz26]

Where is the post losing Cassius Vaughn in FA draft?

[Indi Warrior]

Let's not invest a high pick on a center. Give Holmes one more year on an O-line that could be otherwise set. We have to many areas to upgrade on defense.

[HtownColt]

Is Richburg going to play Guard?

Can't spend your 2nd round pick on a back up center.

Center out of all positions

[chad72]

Is Richburg going to play Guard?

Can't spend your 2nd round pick on a back up center.

Center out of all positions

 

Richburg has stated several times he can play guard but it is a tough position to play at the NFL level and his athleticism over power style is more suited to ZBS if he played guard for year 1, IMO. He'd probably suit teams that do pulling with centers, and do quick screen passes like the Pats (I'm sure you guys can think of other teams). The only reason they would draft him is if they did not believe in Holmes. But then, you could see them sticking with Holmes even if he stunk, given what we have seen with Satele.

 

I have to agree that the odds are low of Richburg to the Colts though not improbable.