Broncos extend Fox for three years

[oldunclemark]

Yeah top coaches in this league is certainly up to debate at times and not most will always agree. I like Jim Harbaugh. I sometimes like Sean Payton too for his boldness and I think he has proven the last few years how important he is to the Saints organization too.

 

I think the hoodie is a top coach but sometimes gets a tad overrated too. Been waiting to see these so called major defensive improvements for several years from that squad. If you don't gift NE turnovers I feel they can be painfully overrated. Problem is the last two times we have played NE we have gifted them turnovers lol.

 

Yeah top coaches in this league is certainly up to debate at times and not most will always agree. I like Jim Harbaugh. I sometimes like Sean Payton too for his boldness and I think he has proven the last few years how important he is to the Saints organization too.

 

I think the hoodie is a top coach but sometimes gets a tad overrated too. Been waiting to see these so called major defensive improvements for several years from that squad. If you don't gift NE turnovers I feel they can be painfully overrated. Problem is the last two times we have played NE we have gifted them turnovers lol.

'Overrated' for Belichik.....?  His teams get to the playoffs every year...

I think Harbaugh is crazy but his record the last 3 years speaks for itself...

 

Sean Payton?  Maybe.. Rex is bold, too.. You have to win.

I think the 'Saints need Payton' thing is an illusion..  but his overall record is good.

We only seem to bad mouth winning coaches..I guess.because losing coaches don't stick around.

Chuck Pagano was 12-6 last year..what about him.

[oldunclemark]

Which is true - he is what his record his.

 

0-2 SBs.

 

Thats the whole discussion. I repeat he is not a bad coach but he doesn't have what it takes to cross the line.

 

If Broncos ever win a SB with Manning, It would either due to Manning or other players or Elway not Fox.

Shane. There's no difference in coaching between the Super Bowl and any other playoff game.. You cant cherry pick the SB and blame it on the coach. Its just not logical. Fox won a playoff game with Tim Tebow...That far out stretches any Super Bowl loss when it comes to degree of difficulty.

[oldunclemark]

Amfootball raised a great point to me once. BB is always coaching up the defense whenever they are having problems in a game. Something I have never seen John Fox do in my lifetime not even in Carolina.

 

I never forgot that profound point either. Perhaps that is what Chad72 & 21isSuperman was alluding to. A valid argument. Is this because Fox doesn't want to undermine the authority of his DC or he just isn't smart enough to devise corrections on the fly like the Grey Hoodie routinely does? I have no idea. 

 

The strange thing is this: BB made a name for himself as a SB winning DC with the NY Giants in the 90's meaning he has the hardware & authority to go over the head of his DC Matt Patricia if he feels the need to do so, but John Fox lost in 2004 at the SB & he really doesn't have the same authority to step in & take over the Broncos defense. Besides, it could create a rift among your coaching staff too. Where's the happy medium here?

 

I would love to see an in depth interview between BB & Matt Patricia to see how that relationship works because Matt's been in Foxboro for a decade & the 2 seem to get along & still win Playoff games. John Fox could learn something from that conversation I think namely how to stroke egos, maintain confidence in your teaching methods, & still make vital adjustments in crucial situations without tearing apart continued team success. 

sw 1..

 

Do you really think John Fox never talks to the defense while Belichik swoops in and takes over from the DC?

Games are won largely during the week with preparation and prior to that, with player selection and teaching.

That's where NE is so good..but its where Denver is good, too

 

What we see or what we think we see on game day....is overrated .//IN game motivation and magic halftime adjustments, to me , are wildly overrated in a league where most plays are called at the line.

  You have to have prepared for everything

[Shane Bond]

Shane. There's no difference in coaching between the Super Bowl and any other playoff game.. You cant cherry pick the SB and blame it on the coach. Its just not logical. Fox won a playoff game with Tim Tebow...That far out stretches any Super Bowl loss when it comes to degree of difficulty.

 

I am not cherry picking. I never considered Fox a SB winning mindset.

 

Anyways, what's yours thoughts on a Coach who says he didn't factor in the noise on the biggest game of his coaching?.

[amfootball]

Shane. There's no difference in coaching between the Super Bowl and any other playoff game.. You cant cherry pick the SB and blame it on the coach. Its just not logical. Fox won a playoff game with Tim Tebow...That far out stretches any Super Bowl loss when it comes to degree of difficulty.

Isn't Fox supposed to be a defensive guy though? His defense was a sieve for almost the entire season and the worst ranked defense heading into the playoffs. Also, when he went out with his heart surgery the team really didn't miss a beat with Del Rio in there.

 

Your Tebow point is a good one. I actually thought that was Fox's finest coaching job because he controlled the whole team. I know when Manning first got there he was trying to get him to play his style of offense and by the time the Atlanta game rolled around, the team went to the Indy offense. So perhaps he is somewhat handicapped in his control of the team. He is a conservative, run-first head coach kind of like Shanny so it must frustrate him to some extent that he can't implement the offense he wants. Even though the O was historic last year, it really struggled against good defenses. No plan B at all.

[Valpo2004]

3 years. . . sounds to me like they don't want to change the regime while Peyton is in town and they are still going for a SB.  

 

However it doesn't sound like it's exactly a vote of confidence for him for life after Peyton.  

[amfootball]

sw 1..

 

Do you really think John Fox never talks to the defense while Belichik swoops in and takes over from the DC?

Games are won largely during the week with preparation and prior to that, with player selection and teaching.

That's where NE is so good..but its where Denver is good, too

 

What we see or what we think we see on game day....is overrated .//IN game motivation and magic halftime adjustments, to me , are wildly overrated in a league where most plays are called at the line.

  You have to have prepared for everything

I could not disagree more. Games in the NFL are largely won by coaches who are able to adjust in game to their opponents. Not only at half-time but series to series. To think you can enter a game with what you have done during the week and just execute and win is naïve at the pro level. Belichick says that all time. You have to see what the other team is bringing and adjust accordingly in all three phases of the game. What separates NE from most teams in the NFL is that they game plan specific for each opponent. They don't just show up and do what they do, they adjust which is why they morphed from a passing team last year to a run team when it became obvious that they could exploit teams more with their backs then their receivers. It is always a match-up game which is why Bill always says you can't take away much from what you did vs one opponent into the next week. Each team brings a different set of match-ups.

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I guess we will find out how good a coach Fox is when Manning retires and the Broncos are dealing with the repercussions of the "win now" approach.

well, it is better than the "win never" approach

 

[Qwiz]

well, it is better than the "win never" approach

 

Well, I see you signed up to the forum just to mock my team allegiance. Good for you. I'm sure you've been banned once, Naptown I'm assuming, and in the direction you're heading you will probably be banned again soon. We signed that Clemons guy, you know, the one a lot of people here were crying for...among other needs in the offseason. We also have plenty of picks in the Draft to add to what is already a very talented team. Expect us to be in the real Super Bowl soon, junior...I'm sure we will get a ring before any team Fox coaches ever does.

[Paulie Gualtieri]

expect us to be in the real Super Bowl soon

 

[Qwiz]

[MAC]

I am not sure how you could watch the Super Bowl and feel good about Fox as a HC. And he had some highly questionable calls in the Ravens game as well two years ago with the kneel down with 30 seconds and 2 time outs.

 

I do agree though that a change at this point probably would not make sense for Manning but then again Manning is going to run his Indy offense no matter who the head coach is. I think some of the coaches that have been in retirement like Cowher and Gruden may come out of it to coach Manning for a couple of seasons. I do think the Broncos could do better but the timing may just not be there at this point.

I didn't say that Fox was a superstar, I just said that he isn't the problem. However dumping him WOULD be a problem.

 

What gives anyone the impression that Cowher or Gruden are better? Because they won a SB? Cowher lost SBs himself before finally winning one. If you evaluating him the year before he won one would you think of him differently? And if so - frankly that's ridiculous. HCs make a huge difference, but if he's good enough to get his team TO the SB, then he's good enough to WIN the SB. It's just another freaking game.

 

By the way, does anyone remember what was "special" about Gruden's win? He knew more about the opposing team than their own coach did. Bizarre circumstances that have virtually nothing to do with his skills. Those men are "names" now because they've been on tv everyday for years. When they were coaching their were plenty of people criticizing them - just like every other coach in the league.

[southwest1]

sw 1..

 

Do you really think John Fox never talks to the defense while Belichik swoops in and takes over from the DC?

Games are won largely during the week with preparation and prior to that, with player selection and teaching.

That's where NE is so good..but its where Denver is good, too

 

What we see or what we think we see on game day....is overrated .//IN game motivation and magic halftime adjustments, to me , are wildly overrated in a league where most plays are called at the line.

  You have to have prepared for everything

I have never seen John Fox ever walk over to the defensive huddle & talk shop with the leaders on that side of the ball in either Carolina or Denver during a game. Now, given the fact that the average game lasts 3 hours or 180 minutes in duration, approximately 60 minutes of that 3 hour time span is commercials. Now within that 60 minutes is it possible that John Fox has a chat with his DC & looks at photo snap shots of offensive formations executed in earlier quarters or less than a minute ago? Sure it is.

 

But, I would submit this question: John Fox was named Panthers HC in 2002. We are now in 2014. If you subtract 2014-2002, you get 12 years as a head coach. Now, outside of practice, when was the last time you saw Fox kneel with the defense & give them a pep talk regarding strategy & sideline adjustments? 

 

That's the point though OUM. If the plays being called at the line are not working, don't you think John Fox would intervene & fix the situation or at least talk to his DC & find out what the problem is? Tom Coughlin does this, Mike Tomlin does this, John & Jim Harbaugh does this, why not John Fox? I suppose 1 could make the argument that Fox has in depth discussions with his coaches when breaking down film on Monday, but what happens if the Broncos are down in a Playoff game that Denver must win? Is Fox gonna step in as a defensive guru & make sure that everyone on D is on the same page for this 3rd down drive that Denver must convert to stay alive? That's the real question. Given Fox's pattern of behavior here, I have my reservations, but I will keep an open mind & SW1 has been proven wrong many times before OUM. 

 

Is it possible that John Fox has spoken to his defense during a game & I have never witnessed it personally? Okay, but highly unlikely given how much I watch football religiously season by season & whatever team Peyton Manning plays on. Plus, I know the difference between TV broadcasting tape & coaches tape BTW. 

[dgambill]

I was very surprised by renewing his contract. I thought perhaps a 1yr would have been fine...that way it wouldn't cost much to buy him out. I was thinking they would promote Gase to HC after this year. I think he is a bright young mind that they will lose if they don't make a spot for him.

 

As far as Fox he is a tad too conservative for my liking and I've questioned quite a few of his challenges etc but overall he is a veteren coach that helps to promote a conservative working environment. I don't think he adds a lot to the XOs much offense or defense. Personally, I think the team could benefit from some harder coaching...holding them responsible for their mistakes (turnovers and lack of defensive intensity)....some one like Bill Cowher...but of course that would never happen...and while I love Tony Dungy and his leadership sometimes a team can use a tongue lashing too...and I think the lack of discipline didn't help the team when they face adversity.

[southwest1]

I have no animosity toward Coach Fox at all. Personally, I like the guy & think he gets a bum rap as a coach. It's like I said to NCF once regarding Andrew Luck's come from behind clutchness. I only need to see it once just to put my mind at ease & know that that capability is indeed there. For Fox, I only need to see sideline tutoring of the Broncos defense once to know that John can make the call & override his DC in a critical playoff situation. Maybe since 18 is also a substitute coach on field Fox feels as though no intervention is necessary. 

 

But, Peyton does respect the NFL chain of command & if Fox wanted to try something different I'm sure that Manning would hear him out & obey his head coach's ultimate wish on a specific play. Yes, Peyton is wicked smart & 98% of the time he makes the perfect counter move to score a TD, but there are time when I am sure that Manning would capitulate to Fox's decision on 1 or 2 plays if he felt the need to change something or he sees something his team is missing or neglecting during a crucial down. 

 

Ultimately, I just wanna see John once in my life change a play called or tutor his D on the sidelines. Why? Just to confirm & verify that the skill indeed exists & the authority to be brave & make a change I guess when the situation mandates it. 

[amfootball]

I didn't say that Fox was a superstar, I just said that he isn't the problem. However dumping him WOULD be a problem.

 

What gives anyone the impression that Cowher or Gruden are better? Because they won a SB? Cowher lost SBs himself before finally winning one. If you evaluating him the year before he won one would you think of him differently? And if so - frankly that's ridiculous. HCs make a huge difference, but if he's good enough to get his team TO the SB, then he's good enough to WIN the SB. It's just another freaking game.

 

By the way, does anyone remember what was "special" about Gruden's win? He knew more about the opposing team than their own coach did. Bizarre circumstances that have virtually nothing to do with his skills. Those men are "names" now because they've been on tv everyday for years. When they were coaching their were plenty of people criticizing them - just like every other coach in the league.

What is the problem then?

 

Neither Cowher or Gruden had Manning either.

[Shane Bond]

AMF - Do you think we can exchange Belichick for Fox?. For couple years may be.

 

Denver will send Ronnie Hillman as a bonus.

 

:clap:  :disco:

[sweetsurrender]

It is lost on folks that Manning has put up not one but two MVP seasons? With last year's being the best ever by any QB. And yet he has no ring to show for it. In the end he picked Elway/Fox. A shame really.

[jvan1973]

It is lost on folks that Manning has put up not one but two MVP seasons? With last year's being the best ever by any QB. And yet he has no ring to show for it. In the end he picked Elway/Fox. A shame really.

Only one team can win every year. They have been in position to win both years

[sweetsurrender]

Only one team can win every year. They have been in position to win both years

Manning is in position every year but the seasons he put up should have yielded him a ring.

[jvan1973]

Manning is in position every year but the seasons he put up should have yielded him a ring.

he didn't get a ring in 04, Brady didn't get a ring in 07, Marino didn't get a ring in 84

[Qwiz]

It is lost on folks that Manning has put up not one but two MVP seasons? With last year's being the best ever by any QB. And yet he has no ring to show for it. In the end he picked Elway/Fox. A shame really.

Imagine if he had gone to San Francisco...who knows what kinds of conversations we would be having right now lol.

[MAC]

What is the problem then?

 

Neither Cowher or Gruden had Manning either.

It wasn't my intention to imply that there WAS a problem. Nor am I all that concerned with defending Fox in the first place. My interest goes no further than the fact that he happens to be coaching the team that Peyton is playing on.

 

However the fact is that they had a terrific season. Anyone who considers it a failure in any way shape or form should take a look at the thirty coaches whose teams did "worse". I'm not concerned with micro-analysis of what fans perceive to be his in game decisions - 99.9% of coaching is done long before you get to that point. .

 

Yes, Fox had Manning, but he didn't have half his defense. The manner in which they compensated was impressive - with a bad coach they might have missed the playoffs rather than made the SB. Gruden didn't have Manning, but he had Tampa Bays historically great defense - which he contributed absolutely didly to. He was along for the ride nearly as much as Dilfer.

 

Cowher had some fine defenses as well, but it still took him 14 years of head coaching (and a top ten QB with some fine weapons) before he won a SB. So at year 13 he was 0-1 in Super Bowls. At year 12 Fox is 0-2. I'm wondering both if some here would consider 0-1 to be better than 0-2 (after all, if you lose in the Super Bowl you are by definition a loser, so more losing must be worse, right?) and what people were saying about Cower before year 14.

 

Fox is a solid coach who has had a long and successful career. Gruden is a solid (if immature wack-job) of a coach.  His specialty is offense, but the Broncos just set the points record with Fox. What is Gruden going to do besides set it back three years in an effort to reinvent it in his image, while neglecting the more problematic defense. Cowher has a historically fine winning percentage (benefiting from not having to worry much about losing his job the way that Pittsburgh handles their coaches) but frankly I've never been able to stand the man (or the personalities of his teams) personally and don't want him anywhere near any team that I'm rooting for. And both retired young. Does the fact that they aren't even trying bring them additional respect? Does either have a clue how to handle the way the game has evolved?

 

The bottom line is basically that Fox is good enough. I'm glad they they decided to leave it alone.

[Dustin]

 

 

[Qwiz]

[jvan1973]

i didn't know you were a pats fan

[Dustin]

 

 

[Qwiz]

 

 

i didn't know you were a pats fan

 

I like the Patriots too, especially when...well, you know.

[Dustin]

You guys remember when Texans fans thought Case Keenum was their savior? lol

[Qwiz]

[jvan1973]

I like the Patriots too, especially when...well, you know.

Riding the coat tails of others. Nice

[Qwiz]

Riding the coat tails of others. Nice

I'm only allowed to like one team now? Sounds legit.

[jvan1973]

I'm only allowed to like one team now? Sounds legit.

You can like as many as you want. I know i would if i was a Texans fan

[Dustin]

 

[Qwiz]

You can like as many as you want. I know i would if i was a Texans fan

Colts and Texans have won the same number of playoff games the past few years lol. We both have a lot to reflect on during offseasons.

[Dustin]

I'm only allowed to like one team now? Sounds legit.

 

Yes. 

[Qwiz]

Suck for...more interceptions?

[jvan1973]

Colts and Texans have won the same number of playoff games the past few years lol. We both have a lot to reflect on during offseasons.

The colts have yet to miss the playoffs when qb1 suits up since 2001

[Dustin]

Suck for...more interceptions?

 

>texans fan

>talking about another teams QBs throwing a lot of interceptions 

 

hahaha oh my sides are killing me

[Qwiz]

The colts have yet to miss the playoffs when qb1 suits up since 2001

Ah, but ever since Manning's been gone you haven't been nearly as successful in the postseason. This is a new era for both our teams- post-Manning.