Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Eli And Elite Qb?


seeblu
 Share

Recommended Posts

It a is well known fact that earlier this year, on a radio talk show, Eli said he is an elite QB. I believe he is this year. The Giants have had to play through injuries and Eli has stepped up and found a way to win games, ie., the game against the Pats last night.

I believe that Eli is benefiting from not being the "other Manning" this year. In years past, it has always been Peyton as THE QB and Eli and the "other" Manning. With Peyton out, Eli is being seen as who he is, not how he compares to Peyton.

Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For his career, no, not elite. For his play in 2011 compared to the rest of the league, yes, he is up there. He's been very turnover prone in his career, but he has cut that down this year. He can still make some head scratching decisions like his endzone INT last night off his back foot, but give him a small deficit and a minute or 2 on the clock, and he rises to the occasion. He's an odd fellow that way. Give him the ball while leading or tied with a few minutes to go, and he makes his mistakes. Give him a small deficit, and he's money. As much as I hate to see it, he is playing very well this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For his career, no, not elite. For his play in 2011 compared to the rest of the league, yes, he is up there. He's been very turnover prone in his career, but he has cut that down this year. He can still make some head scratching decisions like his endzone INT last night off his back foot, but give him a small deficit and a minute or 2 on the clock, and he rises to the occasion. He's an odd fellow that way. Give him the ball while leading or tied with a few minutes to go, and he makes his mistakes. Give him a small deficit, and he's money. As much as I hate to see it, he is playing very well this year.

Took the words right out of my mouth...except the "As much as I hate to see it" part

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love Eli but if we want to consider him elite we have to judge him the same way as Brady and Manning.

I sure don't consider Roethlisberger elite yet. Roethlisberger has 2 rings and a better career QB rating AND playoff qb rating than Eli.

What really hurts Eli is the fact he has pretty poor overall stats for his career. A career rating of 81, a playoff QB rating of 77, 0 MVPs. You can't tell me those are elite stats. That being said If Eli continues playing the way he has been this year for a good chunk of the rest of his career then I would consider him elite. He is sure one heck of a 4th quarter QB though.

Brady and Manning are elite because their overall body of work is extremely impressive both in the playoffs and the regular season. They both are multiple MVP winners, perennial pro bowlers, record setters etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't feel Elite means HoF, I feel it means level compared to your colleagues in the game now. This year, yes. No question. I felt he had the capability after the Super MVP and season that year. Last year he regressed, but has rebounded well. I think E. Manning has 5 4th quarter come from behind victories, this year, and he's not always had his best weapons available either. He could very well become Elite perennially from here on out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eli is not Elite. Elite would imply that he is a HOFer. He is not a HOF QB at this point. I think that he is better than he gets credit for. However, he is having a good season.

That's pretty much how I have felt for the past five years. I live in the NYC media market, so I see a lot of Giants games. Before the Super Bowl in 2007 when all the Giants fans were talking about how terrible Eli was and how they needed to cut him and fire Coughlin and start rebuilding, I told them that Eli is an above average QB. He is not one of the elite QBs in the league, but he is better than the majority. I would rank him in the top 10 (maybe 12 at the time). Then the Giants won the Super Bowl, and they gave Eli a huge new contract, and Giants fans were talking about how he was the best QB in the league. I told them that Eli is an above average QB. He is not the best QB in the league (or even an elite QB), but he is better than the majority. I would rank him in the top 10. Then they struggled last year, and Giants fans started saying Eli is a bum and they need to cut him, etc., etc. You can guess what I told them. It's the same as what I'm telling them this year. My opinion of Eli really hasn't changed much in the past five years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i like Eli, but is not an elite QB, good QB, and does a solid job complimenting his solid team, but can't call the guy elite . . . as some have said look at this career stats and none really pop out as elite, teh QB rating, comp %, TD, lead the league in INT not once but twice,etc . .

true the Gmen are having a good season but have only face two winning teams in their 8 games, true they beat both teams,Bill/Pats but the rest of the teams they have played all have 3 wins or fewer, not that different than GB and Pitt, and like Pitt the second half is tough for the team and well just have to wait and see how the second half of this year turns out . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's pretty much how I have felt for the past five years. I live in the NYC media market, so I see a lot of Giants games. Before the Super Bowl in 2007 when all the Giants fans were talking about how terrible Eli was and how they needed to cut him and fire Coughlin and start rebuilding, I told them that Eli is an above average QB. He is not one of the elite QBs in the league, but he is better than the majority. I would rank him in the top 10 (maybe 12 at the time). Then the Giants won the Super Bowl, and they gave Eli a huge new contract, and Giants fans were talking about how he was the best QB in the league. I told them that Eli is an above average QB. He is not the best QB in the league (or even an elite QB), but he is better than the majority. I would rank him in the top 10. Then they struggled last year, and Giants fans started saying Eli is a bum and they need to cut him, etc., etc. You can guess what I told them. It's the same as what I'm telling them this year. My opinion of Eli really hasn't changed much in the past five years.

They did not give Eli a fair shake at all. I remember one game where they had 40 mph gusts of wind in the stadium, and they had Eli throw 40 some odd times. He threw 4 picks of course. The media went nuts. I couldn't believe it.

Edited by GoGoColts
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I have Rodgers, Brees, Brady as top 3 (Peyton healthy in that mix), the ultra elite. Next tier is elite IMHO. Rivers, E. Manning, Roethlisburger. Who would you put above Eli from those not listed? Schaub? Vick? Romo? Flacco, Stafford? Freeman? Newton? Sanchez? Who and why?

Who is Ultra, elite, very good, above average, below average, and waiting for second string assignment?

I think it is interesting to find out what QB qualities affect peoples order of QB ranking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I have Rodgers, Brees, Brady as top 3 (Peyton healthy in that mix), the ultra elite. Next tier is elite IMHO. Rivers, E. Manning, Roethlisburger. Who would you put above Eli from those not listed? Schaub? Vick? Romo? Flacco, Stafford? Freeman? Newton? Sanchez? Who and why?

Who is Ultra, elite, very good, above average, below average, and waiting for second string assignment?

I think it is interesting to find out what QB qualities affect peoples order of QB ranking.

I don't think Brees and Rodgers are in the same class as Manning and Brady yet. Manning and Brady are elite because their entire body of work is impressive (MVPs, records, pro bowls, starting streak record, wins etc.)

Brees as good of a QB he is, only has 1 12+ win season while Manning and Brady have many each. Rodgers is no doubt very very good but this is his first great season as a QB while Manning and Brady have had many

if I had to make a list: (active starting qbs)

Elite: Brady, Manning

Great: Brees, Rodgers

Very Good: Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger

Good: Vick, Romo, Schaub, Flacco, Stafford, Sanchez, Hassellbeck, Palmer, Ryan, Fitzpatrick, Cutler

Borderline good: Bradford, Freeman, Cassell, A. Smith, Dalton, Newton, Ponder, McCoy

Average: Moore, Painter, Kolb, Beck, Tebow

Poor: Travaris Jackson,

Edited by ssarow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Brees and Rodgers are in the same class as Manning and Brady yet. Manning and Brady are elite because their entire body of work is impressive (MVPs, records, pro bowls, starting streak record, wins etc.)

Brees as good of a QB he is, only has 1 12+ win season while Manning and Brady have many each. Rodgers is no doubt very very good but this is his first great season as a QB while Manning and Brady have had many

if I had to make a list: (active starting qbs)

Elite: Brady, Manning

Great: Brees, Rodgers

Very Good: Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger

Good: Vick, Romo, Schaub, Flacco, Stafford, Sanchez, Hassellbeck, Palmer, Ryan, Fitzpatrick, Cutler

Borderline good: Bradford, Freeman, Cassell, A. Smith, Dalton, Newton, Ponder, McCoy

Average: Moore, Painter, Kolb, Beck, Tebow

Poor: Travaris Jackson,

That's a very good list. I'd probably swap Schaub and Roethlisberger but other than that I think you are spot on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you compare QBs, you must consider thinks like that Peyton calls his own plays versus Brees whos told what to do.

When you are told what to do, you can't be compared to those who call their own plays.

Peyton calls his own, I don't know who else does that?

Every QB since High School.

Calling your own plays is not necessarily a good thing in pro football. There's a place and time you want to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every QB since High School.

Calling your own plays is not necessarily a good thing in pro football. There's a place and time you want to.

So every QB since High School calls their own plays?

As I understand calling your own plays is like: the offensive coordinator MAY gives you plays, but you can choose to go with other plays from the playbook. Pass and runs...

Not just to check down in plays you are given...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So every QB since High School calls their own plays?

As I understand calling your own plays is like: the offensive coordinator MAY gives you plays, but you can choose to go with other plays from the playbook. Pass and runs...

Not just to check down in plays you are given...

\

What I mean to say is QBs in HS learn to call their own plays so they can all do it.

The myth that Manning is great because only he call his own plays is just that. a myth. Now you can say he is very good, if not the best, at running the no huddle.

Calling your own plays could be anything to the no huddle (where you have to since there is no huddle) to changing at the line, to even calling your own play in the huddle. The QB may look at his wrist band because the plays are so many and complicated you can't remember the entire play list so you need a reference. Or they could be running the play the coach sends in.

You may see a team like NE run a no huddle for a series and then go huddle..all depending on what they are trying to do...are they trying to speed up the pace of the game, keep the same defense in...etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

\

What I mean to say is QBs in HS learn to call their own plays so they can all do it.

The myth that Manning is great because only he call his own plays is just that. a myth. Now you can say he is very good, if not the best, at running the no huddle.

Calling your own plays could be anything to the no huddle (where you have to since there is no huddle) to changing at the line, to even calling your own play in the huddle. The QB may look at his wrist band because the plays are so many and complicated you can't remember the entire play list so you need a reference. Or they could be running the play the coach sends in.

You may see a team like NE run a no huddle for a series and then go huddle..all depending on what they are trying to do...are they trying to speed up the pace of the game, keep the same defense in...etc.

I hear you, and I dont disagree.

But where I think the difference between Peyton and others is in the calling. As I understands it, from reading the net and seeing interviews is, that Peyton is a part of making the offensive gameplan and that he don't get plays from the sideline anymore. He decide for him self, what to call at any given time.

In situations like 4 and short, its op to the sideline to decide. Other than that, its Paytons call.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hear you, and I dont disagree.

But where I think the difference between Peyton and others is in the calling. As I understands it, from reading the net and seeing interviews is, that Peyton is a part of making the offensive gameplan and that he don't get plays from the sideline anymore. He decide for him self, what to call at any given time.

In situations like 4 and short, its op to the sideline to decide. Other than that, its Paytons call.

Look at football this way. It's very strategy orientated.

In the military you have the Strategic level (war plans- corps, armies) the Operational level (battles-divisions,battalions) and the Tactical level (firefights- squad and platoons)

How does this apply to football...

The Strategic level is where teams are built,owner management, cap management (a strategy all in itself lol)

The Operational level- coaching, week to week, game plans,preparation,adjustments.. etc

The Tactical level- squad assignments,schemes both blocking and attacking,receiver routes..etc

In a game

The QB is going to have a better view of tactics being under center.

The coach is going to have a better view (or feel) of the operation. He doesn't have the view on the line hence he'll confide in the players on what they are seeing.

And the Owner at this point just watches:)

Manning is a great QB. My criticism has always been he should be used as a QB. At the tactical level. This is what the colts have been missing, the operational level.

Now I hardly think PM runs practices and all..but he no doubt gives his opinions on how the up coming game is played. (many QBs do that)

Calling his own plays as you say he does is whats hurt the colts in the playoffs. You simply can't conduct operations from under center and play QB at the same time.

Whether how much control PM has always been debatable and no one knows other than the team. However that is irrelevant in the total picture of a QB's greatness...it's only one piece.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He is elite now because his old brother is taking the year off. There are reports how the brothers have talked more this year on analyzing games and studying opponents. Eli has not been as good a decision-maker as peyton, and this year I bet he has learned from peyton. Overall eli is more athletic and lucky than peyton, and he has a much more talented team around him. No wonder he has improved and been playing at elite level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...