Grigson Confrence call

[Superman]

I actually feel a bit relieved about this. Don't get me wrong, I would still like to see a free safety added as well as some interior line depth; however, I didn't like the idea of pumping a ton of money into the center position. Everyone here clamoring for guys like EDS just wanted anything but Sattele. In green bay, they weren't even sure about keeping him on the roster a couple years ago. He was their McGlynn, bouncing all over the line looking for a place to contribute. I'm happy he got himself a deal, but I believe in Holmes. Grigs has always been up front about not liking to play rookie lineman. Yes Sattele beyond struggled, but we on this forum were the only ones to perceive this as indicative of Holmes' ineptitude. I bet Grigs just wanted to save him from failure, or he could have just wanted to allow him to develop appropriately. I'm down with it. Holmes will get his shot. On that note, everyone saying we're going to draft Marcus Martin I believe are off the mark. I really don't see us drafting a guy who played ONE YEAR of center at USC to replace the center we drafted from USC who started ahead of Martin, without even giving Holmes a shot. I know Hugh Thornton will be a monster at his more natural right guard position. Let's be real, Thornton was a rookie who was forced into the starting lineup and out of position on the fly due to Thomas' injury. That will not be the case this year. I knew Thomas' recovery was going a little slow, but a torn quad is worse than a torn ACL. It's disappointing to hear, but not a red flag yet. He will be back in time for TC, imo. Thornton in his second year should be much improved at right guard. Grigs sees something in Holmes if he's that confident. I mean come on, there are affordable center options available and we haven't even kicked the tires. That to me is indicative of Holmes' development. That is certainly an optimistic take, but I'm going to roll with it. Go Horseshoe!!!     

 

Dude, paragraphs.

 

And to the bolded, Grigson didn't say he doesn't like to play rookie linemen. We played rookie linemen last year, in direct contradiction to that theory. Grigson's words have been both overblown and taken out of context. 

 

To everything else, I agree. I think we'll be okay. Wish we had a more definite answer at center, and I'm not excited about Costa, but with Satele and McGlynn gone, things ought to be better.

[YOUR GM]

Wasn't he injured?

Early in the season, yes. He played a few snaps towards the end of the year, but only because of multiple injuries. He wasn't hurt all season, at all

[Superman]

im not saying he hasn't. I just hope hes right. but regardless we still need to draft Oline

 

We just drafted offensive linemen. I'd like to see them develop. 

[mvbighead]

Grigson isn't going anywhere. Despite the angst among fans, he's done a good job as GM, and our team continues to get better. 

 

Let's not go overboard here in March.

 

This.  Cheese and crackers fellas.  We could be like the Raiders and grossly overpay FAs, but he doesn't.  He has the ability to plan ahead, and make sure we can resign key pieces when we need to.

 

To me, it's NEVER a good idea to draft a rookie lineman and throw them out right away.  Instead, he drafts Holmes and gives him a year to develop before thrusting him into a starting position.  He may pan out, he may not, but Jeff Saturday was a UDFA that sat out a year before playing in the league.  Now everyone's drawers are in a bunch because we didn't pay some guy to be a starter at C.  My only concern, at this point, is bringing in more depth.  Mack woulda been nice, but not at 10/mil per season.  Ugh... it's this type of mentality on this board that has me coming back less and less.  Grigs has done a LOT more than Polian as far as FA goes.

 

Nicks?  We brought in a guy like Nicks for a one year prove it deal?  That's fantastic in my opinion that he pulled that one off.  Now with Wayne, Hilton, and Nicks... we have a pretty scary looking core of receivers.  And give Rogers more time to develop, and ... man oh man.  I have NO problems with Grigson, and for someone to suggest that a poor year at the line position will result in his firing is, um... yeah... it's just not bright.

[CardiacColts]

Ok, so we're rolling with what we have, basically. My question is, what about the past 2 seasons should give me any confidence in this coaching staff to coach the young players up, or better yet, put the best 5 on the field? Satele and McGlynn continued to start, despite being outplayed by a number of players, while the guys that we're seemingly placing our trust in on the line going forward couldn't even get on the field last year.

Everyone keeps saying that Grigson has a plan and they trust him, but I'm of the opinion that he really doesn't have a plan, and is just being reactionary. Either that, or his plans and that of the coaching staffs aren't exactly the same. If the plan was to breed Holmes as the starter all along, he should've been in the damn rotation last year. You can trust this inexperienced regime all you want, but unless they blitz the offensive line issue in the draft early, I see another year of poor line play. That's inexcusable for a club that's supposedly going to field a power run attack. An absolute joke.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and your skepticism isn't necessarily unwarranted. At the same time though, wouldn't a completely reactionary general manager do the exact opposite? If Grigs were reactionary, we wouldn't have even drafted Holmes. He would have watched Satelle stink it up last year and offer 15M a year to the best center on the market lol. Would have killed our future as a result of his overREACTION. I think Grigs does have a plan, he simply exercises more restraint and patience in rolling it out than most of us impulsive and impatient fans would like. Jmo...

[Gavin]

but what stablished C was tehre in FA? Mack was a dream lets face it.

 

 

just because you liked EDS  doesnt mean Grigson liked or that he is taht good to begin with it. I have said this before, but pats, colts, ravens, saints all had giantic holes at C. Not to mention the packers, who know the player best, and none had any interest in bringing him for a visit.

 

 

And De la puente, is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated in this board in my opinion. 

 

Im as frustrated as you are, we want this freaking OL to rock for once. but we cant sit here and say we lsot a gem. cause then, at least 6 other team lost it also.

I never wanted De La Puente. And no EDS isn't overrated, He was the 2nd best available Center out there...2nd best Center in the league overall? No...But certainly the 2nd best available at the time, Also those other teams you mentioned that  still need a Center are probably all scrambling right now to find a serviceable to good ones because they didn't get the time or day  with EDS, Plenty of teams wanted him, Green Bay, Giants, Bucs

[YOUR GM]

I completely understand where you're coming from, and your skepticism isn't necessarily unwarranted. At the same time though, wouldn't a completely reactionary general manager do the exact opposite? If Grigs were reactionary, we wouldn't have even drafted Holmes. He would have watched Satelle stink it up last year and offer 15M a year to the best center on the market lol. Would have killed our future as a result of his overREACTION. I think Grigs does have a plan, he simply exercises more restraint and patience in rolling it out than most of us impulsive and impatient fans would like. Jmo...

I feel like he would've paid that much for Mack, were he actually attainable. Cleveland was never going to let him go, and Grigson realized that. But there were reports that we were interested in Mack earlier last week, so I wouldn't exactly say his gameplan was ironclad, and he never had intentions to overpay for Mack. He just couldn't get him.

And while the Nicks signing was cheap, it was reactionary, in my opinion. If I were forced to choose which young unit to try and coach up between our receivers and O-line last year, I would've rolled with our receivers and added a veteran lineman in free agency. Not the other way around

[Valpo2004]

He actually got to play some at the end of the year, and while it wasn't at interior line, he looked strong and athletic. If he's healthy and stays healthy, and gets starter's snaps in the offseason program, then he should be okay. 

 

Prior to his senior year at USC, he was considered a potential second round prospect. His injuries and inconsistent play in 2012 caused him to drop, but he was still projected as a 4th/5th round pick, which is right were we got him. 

 

Given how conservative our front office and coaching staff tends to be in dealing with injured players, it's not surprising that he got stuck as an inactive practically all season. We'll see what he looks like in August.

 

My criticism is in that case that if we where gonna be that careful with his injuries maybe he should have been put on IR kind of like Chapman was.  

[Defjamz26]

If that's how he really feels about the O-Line than fine. He just better hope for his sake it works out. IMO he's already on somewhat thin ice with the Richardson trade and how badly Satele turned out. He needs to draft studs this draft, like he did in 2012, only this time on defense. Whether its a safety, CB, OLB,etc...it doesn't matter to me as long as they make an impact.

[Gavin]

Dude, paragraphs.

 

And to the bolded, Grigson didn't say he doesn't like to play rookie linemen. We played rookie linemen last year, in direct contradiction to that theory. Grigson's words have been both overblown and taken out of context. 

 

To everything else, I agree. I think we'll be okay. Wish we had a more definite answer at center, and I'm not excited about Costa, but with Satele and McGlynn gone, things ought to be better.

Ah the above paragraph is nothin, Just enough to make your head spin a little bit, There have been a few run on sentences that all I can is......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbtUC9oVThg

[Indeee]

Grigson is again gambling with our offensive line if you ask me. Holmes may have the talent to be a good starting center but hasn't played a snap yet, Thomas is coming back from a serious injury, Thornton struggled but also showed some promise so he is still a questionmark. All in all too much uncertainty in a crucial area for the colts that struggled in pass protection and run blocking. I really hope I'm wrong but I expect another year of awful Offensive Line play. 

I agree. seems obvious now with Costas lowball signing and Holmes lowball contract that Grigs has set minimal money into this if it fails. Luck can maneuver enough to get by with pressure breakdowns. I'm now more concerned with our running game. This year coming is a make/break conclusion on the trent trade and it seems to me that we may see a repeat performance on last year with these guys slated to man down the oline

[Maniq]

If that's how he really feels about the O-Line than fine. He just better hope for his sake it works out. IMO he's already on somewhat thin ice with the Richardson trade and how badly Satele turned out. He needs to draft studs this draft, like he did in 2012, only this time on defense. Whether its a safety, CB, OLB,etc...it doesn't matter to me as long as they make an impact.

I think people need to stop focusing on the bad signings and instead start focusing on all the good things Grigs has done.

 

- Andrew Luck

- Vontae Davis x2

- Jerrell Freeman

- Gosder Cherilus

- Darius Butler

- TY Hilton

- LaVon Brazill

- Coby Fleener

- Dwayne Allen

- Cory Redding

- Vick Ballard

 

etc...

[jvan1973]

I never wanted De La Puente. And no EDS isn't overrated, He was the 2nd best available Center out there...2nd best Center in the league overall? No...But certainly the 2nd best available at the time, Also those other teams you mentioned that still need a Center are probably all scrambling right now to find a serviceable to good ones because they didn't get the time or day with EDS, Plenty of teams wanted him, Green Bay, Giants, Bucs

if all of those teams were interested, why did he sign a 4 year, 14 million dollar contract with a team going no where

[Superman]

My criticism is in that case that if we where gonna be that careful with his injuries maybe he should have been put on IR kind of like Chapman was.

I disagree. That would restrict the work he could do with the team on the practice field. And it wasn't much, but he did get some real snaps late in the year. I just think that they took it slow with him as a matter of caution.

Also, remember that Chapman didn't get IR'd until halfway through the year in 2012.

[CardiacColts]

Dude, paragraphs.

 

And to the bolded, Grigson didn't say he doesn't like to play rookie linemen. We played rookie linemen last year, in direct contradiction to that theory. Grigson's words have been both overblown and taken out of context. 

 

To everything else, I agree. I think we'll be okay. Wish we had a more definite answer at center, and I'm not excited about Costa, but with Satele and McGlynn gone, things ought to be better.

Sorry about the formatting. My brain is fried, my 4th grade students are watching Hercules to cap off our mythology unit, and I pumped out a complete stream of consciousness. Sorry about that. I understand your take on the situation; however, Grigs has stated explicitly that he prefers not to start rookie lineman. I had no intention of taking anything out of context.  I really don't think Grigs likes playing rookie lineman. Yea Thornton's playtime contradicts this, but seriously who else was there? I prefer not to fold laundry, but when the wife is out of town I don't have an alternative. I think Grigs would have preferred to slowly develop Thornton. As for center, Satelle had some $ invested in him which I'm sure at some level played a role in their commitment to him. None of us really know why he was not pulled. Holmes could have been hurt, he could have been good to go but Grigs wasn't down, or he could have truly just not beaten Satelle out. I'm going to continue to believe and hope that Holmes is ready. However, this is all moot, as neither Holmes or Thornton are rookies anymore, and Satelle and McGlynn are goners! I think we are in for a great season. Let's go Colts!!!

[Valpo2004]

Grigson isn't going anywhere. Despite the angst among fans, he's done a good job as GM, and our team continues to get better. 

 

Let's not go overboard here in March.

 

I would agree.  But I do think this year is a big year for him.  The 2014 team really became his now.  Gone are almost all of the players from the Polian era.  Gone are most of the bad players that we had to sign on a budget in 2012 because of all the dead money.

 

A lot of potential sitting on this team, this year will tell us quite a bit about if those players are gonna live up to that potential.  

[COLTS449]

Is he gone? or just not re-signed at the moment.

 

He's a free agent. I just assume he wont be brought back. He wasn't very productive last year. I expect Hughes to play a lot of NT this year actually.

[CardiacColts]

I feel like he would've paid that much for Mack, were he actually attainable. Cleveland was never going to let him go, and Grigson realized that. But there were reports that we were interested in Mack earlier last week, so I wouldn't exactly say his gameplan was ironclad, and he never had intentions to overpay for Mack. He just couldn't get him.

And while the Nicks signing was cheap, it was reactionary, in my opinion. If I were forced to choose which young unit to try and coach up between our receivers and O-line last year, I would've rolled with our receivers and added a veteran lineman in free agency. Not the other way around

Very fair point. Well spoken HBA. In that sense, I can see what you were going for. It is interesting to me because I do believe Grigs has a plan; however, I do feel as though he deviates regularly. From what I can tell, he really is just looking to improve the totality of the team at any moment. In my opinion and completely my opinion, I feel as though Grig's looks at the team and sees any improvement as big improvement. Even if it means ditching a player for someone else marginally better. In that sense, I like his flexibility. He doesn't seem Polian rigid in the sense that he doesn't mind improving the team, even in ways he wasn't initially anticipating. 

[COLTS449]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what Grigs said. He's not going to go into the season with Howell starting at FS. We're definitely going to draft a safety in the 2nd or 3rd. Holmes probably will be the starter at C though. Lets just hope he's added some strength and turns into a solid center. With 14 million left though, I don't get why Grigs doesn't go after some guys on 1 year deals. A guy like Anthony Spencer would be perfect.

[Gavin]

if all of those teams were interested, why did he sign a 4 year, 14 million dollar contract with a team going no where

It was reported those teams were interested. I think what it came down to the Packers didn't seem to think they would lose him, That and the deal does make him the 12th highest paid Center in the league along with the 12th  highest in guaranteed money so its not like he is getting a real low deal, I dont think anyone expected him to get elite money after 1 full year of being a starter....another reason likely why he didn't get elite money....yet

[TKnight24]

I think Grigson is just throwing everyone off.

I do like the garlic reference though lol.

Funny you mention that lolly

https://twitter.com/HolderStephen/status/447075118326353920

[coltsfanatic24]

When Howell played i thought he was the best safety on the team so i'm not surprised he'll be going into training camp as the starting FS. Holmes has all the tools to be a good C he just needed to get bigger and stronger and i think he did that this year. Will still have a lot of cap space left over that we can use for re-signing Castonzo and other free agents.

[Buck Showalter]

if all of those teams were interested, why did he sign a 4 year, 14 million dollar contract with a team going no where

Maybe he loves Lovie...

[Slick_Rick]

Nose Tackle? I dont know why anyone thinks we need a nose tackle. We brought in Jones for that position, we have Franklin and Chapman...were fine at NT.

Jones is versatile, he won't be playing every snap at the NT. Remember RJF was able to play NT when we brought him in last year. I didn't like Franklin. He was not fine at NT. We ranked near the bottom in rush defense. Jones is a start and Chap developed nicely, but we need another body, not necessarily to start, but for rotation purposes.

[coltnorth]

I'm totally not saying Grigson is going to go after Mack here. I really doubt he is but you do need to at least consider this. If Grigson was going to go after Mack (or any other center) do you think he would say "we are in trouble at center, we really need someone"? Nope. He is publically saying he is fine with what we have. That way if things don't work out, you have shown support for who you do have and you haven't given agents more leverage

[Boiler_Colt]

All depends on how Holmes has developed, Even if he hasn't I dont expect we will go after Mack next year

I agree, at this point the Colts are probably hoping he signs his tender this year and tests FA next year.

[lollygagger8]

Funny you mention that lolly

https://twitter.com/HolderStephen/status/447075118326353920

 

Here's hoping!! 

[rock8591]

Holmes was def injured before training camp last year; I remember he only put up 13 reps of the bench press, which is the same as some kickers.

[SilentHill]

I'm extremely happy with that he said. Kudos to grigs!

[jskinnz]

...

 

Wish we'd add another veteran lineman. I get projecting Holmes into the starting lineup; always did, I'm just nervous about it. And I guess with Nixon, Reitz and Costa, we have some backups along the interior line who can compete and play in a pinch. And then there's the draft, though I think we'll probably be looking more for a backup tackle. 

 

Drafting a safety makes more sense.

 

My only beef with the plan at this point is that we only have five picks, and we have ample cap room to make a couple mid-level moves and shore up some spots, and still have a bunch of cap to roll forward if necessary. Not sure why we Costa was the choice at center/guard, if we were only going to add one veteran lineman. I hope we don't wind up on the sidelines for the rest of free agency.

I think they get through the draft,evaluate the roster then and decide to fill any remaining holes with one year FA deals for a few players.

[Jason_]

your opinions are no better or of no more value then mine so shove it with high and mighty attitude

 

Well to be fair, you're one of the few who repeatedly claim your opinions are better than Grigson's so...there's that.

 

 your to predictable

 

He's not the only one.

 

If that's how he really feels about the O-Line than fine. He just better hope for his sake it works out. IMO he's already on somewhat thin ice with the Richardson trade and how badly Satele turned out. He needs to draft studs this draft, like he did in 2012, only this time on defense. Whether its a safety, CB, OLB,etc...it doesn't matter to me as long as they make an impact.

 

You're one of the few who feel that Grigson is on thin ice, and I would bet my next paycheck that the Irsay's do NOT feel that way. 

[Bluefire4]

This is what we wanted to hear right?

[Bravo]

I can live with the center statement. It is what it is.

It concerns me about Thomas. We better draft another decent guard. Actually, if we use our first three picks on O linemen, I wouldn't be upset.

Yeah for once in my life I wouldn't be upset if we used a bunch if picks on O-lineman!!!

[Superman]

Sorry about the formatting. My brain is fried, my 4th grade students are watching Hercules to cap off our mythology unit, and I pumped out a complete stream of consciousness. Sorry about that. I understand your take on the situation; however, Grigs has stated explicitly that he prefers not to start rookie lineman. I had no intention of taking anything out of context.  I really don't think Grigs likes playing rookie lineman. Yea Thornton's playtime contradicts this, but seriously who else was there? I prefer not to fold laundry, but when the wife is out of town I don't have an alternative. I think Grigs would have preferred to slowly develop Thornton. As for center, Satelle had some $ invested in him which I'm sure at some level played a role in their commitment to him. None of us really know why he was not pulled. Holmes could have been hurt, he could have been good to go but Grigs wasn't down, or he could have truly just not beaten Satelle out. I'm going to continue to believe and hope that Holmes is ready. However, this is all moot, as neither Holmes or Thornton are rookies anymore, and Satelle and McGlynn are goners! I think we are in for a great season. Let's go Colts!!!

 

We also played Nixon at guard at the end of the year.

 

And I agree that, if there's an alternative, most teams would prefer not to start a rookie lineman.

 

But Grigson didn't say explicitly that he prefers not to start rookie linemen. He was asked what he'd prefer, without knowing the specific players involved, a rookie corner or a rookie lineman. He said corner, because offensive line is a tougher transition to make. But the context is key. An ESPN blogger was asking an abstract question prior to free agency, trying to mine for information and get a read on what Grigson might do in the offseason. Also important is that Grigson's answer skewed toward rookie tackles in particular, and then we signed a corner and two starting linemen, then drafted two linemen, hopefully to develop.

 

Still, it's important to say that Grigson didn't say he doesn't want his team to start a rookie lineman. He said he'd prefer a rookie corner to a rookie lineman. Like I said, his comment has been overstated and taken out of context. 

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47462/grigson-prefers-rookie-cbs-to-rookie-ols

 

As it stands, it's not really relevant to 2014. Holmes and Thornton aren't rookies anymore, and Grigson's comments today suggest that Holmes is projected to start. But is sticks in my craw that people say Grigson said he doesn't want to start a rookie lineman, because he didn't say that, and certainly not in explicit terms.

[Superman]

I think they get through the draft,evaluate the roster then and decide to fill any remaining holes with one year FA deals for a few players.

 

That's pretty clear. I just wish we had grabbed another veteran lineman. The guys who actually look like upgrades might not be there in June and beyond. We'll see what happens. Guys like Goodwin might not want to be obligated to offseason workouts in a new city. He can chill through the summer wherever he calls home, then show up for camp in July, rather than having to worry about OTAs and whatnot. 

[Smonroe]

Yeah for once in my life I wouldn't be upset if we used a bunch if picks on O-lineman!!!

I know we also need at least one safety. But I'm for selling out for O linemen. Defenses play better when the offense hold the field, and gives them a lead. Our D isn't going to be Seattle good, it doesn't have to be if we have a balanced offense that controls the field.

[CardiacColts]

We also played Nixon at guard at the end of the year.

 

And I agree that, if there's an alternative, most teams would prefer not to start a rookie lineman.

 

But Grigson didn't say explicitly that he prefers not to start rookie linemen. He was asked what he'd prefer, without knowing the specific players involved, a rookie corner or a rookie lineman. He said corner, because offensive line is a tougher transition to make. But the context is key. An ESPN blogger was asking an abstract question prior to free agency, trying to mine for information and get a read on what Grigson might do in the offseason. Also important is that Grigson's answer skewed toward rookie tackles in particular, and then we signed a corner and two starting linemen, then drafted two linemen, hopefully to develop.

 

Still, it's important to say that Grigson didn't say he doesn't want his team to start a rookie lineman. He said he'd prefer a rookie corner to a rookie lineman. Like I said, his comment has been overstated and taken out of context. 

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47462/grigson-prefers-rookie-cbs-to-rookie-ols

 

As it stands, it's not really relevant to 2014. Holmes and Thornton aren't rookies anymore, and Grigson's comments today suggest that Holmes is projected to start. But is sticks in my craw that people say Grigson said he doesn't want to start a rookie lineman, because he didn't say that, and certainly not in explicit terms.

Thanks for the clarification. I get what you were saying though; not that I was taking things out of context, so much as the things many of us have been reading have been inserted out of context. Either way, I remember the corner/ o line rookie question, so thanks for mentioning that. Well stated. Again, the clarification is appreciated. Your perspective makes sense, as I doubt many GM's in the league foster blanket policies regarding any position. Everything is situational. Needless to say, not all rookie lineman are created equal . 

[Superman]

Thanks for the clarification. I get what you were saying though; not that I was taking things out of context, so much as the things many of us have been reading have been inserted out of context. Either way, I remember the corner/ o line rookie question, so thanks for mentioning that. Well stated. Again, the clarification is appreciated. Your perspective makes sense, as I doubt many GM's in the league foster blanket policies regarding any position. Everything is situational. Needless to say, not all rookie lineman are created equal . 

 

Right. And playing tackle or center is more difficult than playing guard, given the pass rushers tackles face and the pre-snap responsibilities centers have. So after all that parsing I just did, I don't find it surprising that the staff didn't anticipate playing Holmes at center at all last year. I just don't think Grigson's comments were meant the way that many people have taken them. Like you said, blanket policies probably don't exist.

 

But whatever. It's good that we drafted Holmes last year and then redshirted him. I hope beyond hope that he can play well for us this season. I'm not worried about Grigson's job, I just think having good center play is the key to our offense taking the next step.

[BlueCollarColts]

Sounds like Delano Howell will start for us

[CardiacColts]

Right. And playing tackle or center is more difficult than playing guard, given the pass rushers tackles face and the pre-snap responsibilities centers have. So after all that parsing I just did, I don't find it surprising that the staff didn't anticipate playing Holmes at center at all last year. I just don't think Grigson's comments were meant the way that many people have taken them. Like you said, blanket policies probably don't exist.

 

But whatever. It's good that we drafted Holmes last year and then redshirted him. I hope beyond hope that he can play well for us this season. I'm not worried about Grigson's job, I just think having good center play is the key to our offense taking the next step.

Couldn't agree more. I think Holmes will be solid but unspectacular this year. I'm hoping beyond hope not to see Costa at center though. Let's ramp up Khaled's development. Grigs isn't going anywhere. Continuity is key.