Grigson Confrence call

[Legend of Luck]

It could very well depend on how Thornton does.  Players are suppose to improve the most going into their 2nd year, so maybe he picks it up and is a decent guard.  

 

I always invisioned this years lineup as AC, Thomas, Someone (I guess Holmes Now), Thorton, Gosder.

[Legend of Luck]

Costa  is McGlynns replacement. Backup that can play two positions.

Bingo.

[Superman]

...

 

Wish we'd add another veteran lineman. I get projecting Holmes into the starting lineup; always did, I'm just nervous about it. And I guess with Nixon, Reitz and Costa, we have some backups along the interior line who can compete and play in a pinch. And then there's the draft, though I think we'll probably be looking more for a backup tackle. 

 

Drafting a safety makes more sense.

 

My only beef with the plan at this point is that we only have five picks, and we have ample cap room to make a couple mid-level moves and shore up some spots, and still have a bunch of cap to roll forward if necessary. Not sure why we Costa was the choice at center/guard, if we were only going to add one veteran lineman. I hope we don't wind up on the sidelines for the rest of free agency.

[Maniq]

...and we have ample cap room to make a couple mid-level moves and shore up some spots, and still have a bunch of cap to roll forward if necessary. Not sure why we Costa was the choice at center/guard, if we were only going to add one veteran lineman. I hope we don't wind up on the sidelines for the rest of free agency.

That's not too late at all.

 

My biggest concern right now is still the pass rush. Next to that the interior O-line.

 

But I'm not worried. Grigs has a plan. Though a couple of more draft picks wouldn't hurt. I agree on that.

[Superman]

That's not too late at all.

 

My biggest concern right now is still the pass rush. Next to that the interior O-line.

 

But I'm not worried. Grigs has a plan. Though a couple of more draft picks wouldn't hurt. I agree on that.

 

I expect the pass rush help to come from Werner improved, and maybe a potential Sam backer in the draft. I wouldn't mind adding a veteran pass rusher like Shaun Phillips, but he seems to want some money this time around.

[Gavin]

...

 

Wish we'd add another veteran lineman. I get projecting Holmes into the starting lineup; always did, I'm just nervous about it. And I guess with Nixon, Reitz and Costa, we have some backups along the interior line who can compete and play in a pinch. And then there's the draft, though I think we'll probably be looking more for a backup tackle. 

 

Drafting a safety makes more sense.

 

My only beef with the plan at this point is that we only have five picks, and we have ample cap room to make a couple mid-level moves and shore up some spots, and still have a bunch of cap to roll forward if necessary. Not sure why we Costa was the choice at center/guard, if we were only going to add one veteran lineman. I hope we don't wind up on the sidelines for the rest of free agency.

At this point I have just accepted that Grigsons eye for O Line talent is marginal at the very best

[Valpo2004]

That's not too late at all.

 

My biggest concern right now is still the pass rush. Next to that the interior O-line.

 

But I'm not worried. Grigs has a plan. Though a couple of more draft picks wouldn't hurt. I agree on that.

 

I'm not as concerned about that.  

 

Mathis will be there, Jones will provide a pass rush, Redding is probably going to be on the opposite side of him on passing downs (as opposed to Francois who is a run stopper but can't rush the passer.) and expect Werner to be improved.

 

We are far from having an elite corps of pass rushers but adding Jones plus Werner improving should make our pass rush quite a bit better then where we where last year.

 

My biggest concern is O-line.  We're looking at an unknown at center (Either Costas or Holmes) and a guard that did pretty poorly last year but may improve (Thornton)  

 

We're also starting an unknown at FS.

[Superman]

At this point I have just accepted that Grigsons eye for O Line talent is marginal at the very best

 

No offense, but the eye for offensive line talent is no better on this board, collectively. Adding depth like Costa has nothing to do with Grigson's talent evaluation; Costa is a low-level signing. Adding guys like Thomas and Cherilus, and drafting Holmes and Thornton, speaks much more to Grigson's evaluation. Thornton is a promising young player, Cherilus was one of the best RTs in the league last year, and Thomas played well in his short time on the field. Holmes was hurt, and then sat on the bench.

 

I'm not thrilled with Costa, or McGlynn and Satele, but those additions don't overshadow the good ones. 

[Valpo2004]

At this point I have just accepted that Grigsons eye for O Line talent is marginal at the very best

 

I'm questioning it as well.  This is the year that I think will tell us the most.  There are no more crappy players who where on the roster just because we couldn't afford anyone else.  He's had 2 years to make over the line with large amounts of cap space to do it. 

 

Since we spent so little money on it if we see any improvement at center I will have a fairly positive view of it.  

[NewColtsFan]

Nose Tackle? I dont know why anyone thinks we need a nose tackle. We brought in Jones for that position, we have Franklin and Chapman...were fine at NT.

 

Jones was not brought in to play the nose.  

 

He was brought in to play on either side of the nose.

 

He might play some nose on obvious passing downs,  but so can Hughes....

 

But his primary role is to play DE or DT....    but not NT.

[Valpo2004]

No offense, but the eye for offensive line talent is no better on this board, collectively. Adding depth like Costa has nothing to do with Grigson's talent evaluation; Costa is a low-level signing. Adding guys like Thomas and Cherilus, and drafting Holmes and Thornton, speaks much more to Grigson's evaluation. Thornton is a promising young player, Cherilus was one of the best RTs in the league last year, and Thomas played well in his short time on the field. Holmes was hurt, and then sat on the bench.

 

I'm not thrilled with Costa, or McGlynn and Satele, but those additions don't overshadow the good ones. 

 

Holmes was hurt??  I don't think I ever saw him on the injury report...

 

Thornton I'm not convinced on yet but since he's young and going into his 2nd year there is a good chance of improvement.  

 

Honestly I want to see a top 16 offensive line.  If our O-line is average or slightly above I'll be happy.  

[NewColtsFan]

I wouldn't read too much into what Grigson says to the media on a conference call in late March.   It's the same stuff he's been saying the whole off-season.

 

He's NOT going to telegraph what he wants to do or hopes to do.    That's not the way Grigson works.

 

Grigson plays his cards very close to his vest.......    if you're looking for clear and obvious insights,  I don't think you'll find them here.

[NewColtsFan]

Holmes was hurt??  I don't think I ever saw him on the injury report...

 

Thornton I'm not convinced on yet but since he's young and going into his 2nd year there is a good chance of improvement.  

 

Honestly I want to see a top 16 offensive line.  If our O-line is average or slightly above I'll be happy.  

 

Holmes was not 100% when we drafted him....  and then I think hurt an ankle during an early camp.   Not sure it healed anything close to 100% until well into the season.    So, I think he was never fully healed.

 

As to any other reasons he didn't play,  that appears to be one of the great mysteries of modern times....   like Bigfoot or the Lochness monster!

 

(Grrrrr....  frustrating!)

[vitoaf27]

Holmes was hurt??  I don't think I ever saw him on the injury report...

 

Thornton I'm not convinced on yet but since he's young and going into his 2nd year there is a good chance of improvement.  

 

Honestly I want to see a top 16 offensive line.  If our O-line is average or slightly above I'll be happy.  

 

Both Holmes and Thorton missed most of training camp, if I remember right.

[Gavin]

No offense, but the eye for offensive line talent is no better on this board, collectively. Adding depth like Costa has nothing to do with Grigson's talent evaluation; Costa is a low-level signing. Adding guys like Thomas and Cherilus, and drafting Holmes and Thornton, speaks much more to Grigson's evaluation. Thornton is a promising young player, Cherilus was one of the best RTs in the league last year, and Thomas played well in his short time on the field. Holmes was hurt, and then sat on the bench.

 

I'm not thrilled with Costa, or McGlynn and Satele, but those additions don't overshadow the good ones. 

No the bad picks(Satele, Mcglynn) certainly dont overshadow the good ones and I know he has made some good picks like the ones you named, I guess Im just more disappointed in Grigsons apparent unwillingness to sign an established Center instead electing apparently to let a 2nd year player and Costa to fight it out to see who starts

[Gavin]

Both Holmes and Thorton missed most of training camp, if I remember right.

Yep, Thornton spent most of it in a walking boot, I live right down the road basically from where they have TC

[Superman]

Holmes was hurt??  I don't think I ever saw him on the injury report...

 

Thornton I'm not convinced on yet but since he's young and going into his 2nd year there is a good chance of improvement.  

 

Honestly I want to see a top 16 offensive line.  If our O-line is average or slightly above I'll be happy.  

 

Really? Holmes was hurt coming out of USC, he had minimal participation in the offseason program, he got hurt in training camp, and he didn't get on the game day roster until late in the year. So yeah, Holmes dealt with injuries last year.

 

Thornton is promising. I'm not ready to call him a quality starter yet, but I think he can be. Especially if we get better center play. To me, that's what the entire line hinges on. Our tackle play is above average, and we have some decent players at guard. McGlynn sucked, but he's gone (presumably). Thornton and Nixon both showed some nice things last year, Thomas was good, Reitz I think is starter quality if he can stay healthy, etc. It's all on Holmes to be an upgrade at center. And given that Satele was one of the very worst centers in the league last year -- even McGlynn did better in limited time -- I don't think that's an unrealistic notion.

 

I'm still nervous, but I get the plan. Was hoping for more, but I get it. I hope Holmes can make it happen.

[austriancolt]

Grigson is again gambling with our offensive line if you ask me. Holmes may have the talent to be a good starting center but hasn't played a snap yet, Thomas is coming back from a serious injury, Thornton struggled but also showed some promise so he is still a questionmark. All in all too much uncertainty in a crucial area for the colts that struggled in pass protection and run blocking. I really hope I'm wrong but I expect another year of awful Offensive Line play. 

[jvan1973]

At this point I have just accepted that Grigsons eye for O Line talent is marginal at the very best

[dw49]

...

 

Wish we'd add another veteran lineman. I get projecting Holmes into the starting lineup; always did, I'm just nervous about it. And I guess with Nixon, Reitz and Costa, we have some backups along the interior line who can compete and play in a pinch. And then there's the draft, though I think we'll probably be looking more for a backup tackle. 

 

Drafting a safety makes more sense.

 

My only beef with the plan at this point is that we only have five picks, and we have ample cap room to make a couple mid-level moves and shore up some spots, and still have a bunch of cap to roll forward if necessary. Not sure why we Costa was the choice at center/guard, if we were only going to add one veteran lineman. I hope we don't wind up on the sidelines for the rest of free agency.

 

 

I think the Costa "answer" is a really simple one. He was signed for around vet min. , makes less than Reitz this year. I believe only around 500K guaranteed. The Mack situation is obvious and by all reports all the other available centers have some warts. Makes sense if you saw the contracts and how slowly they were signed. So bottom line is the whole thing is a process and Grigson felt this cap room (diff between Costa and other C's) would have more impact if spent elsewhere.

[Superman]

No the bad picks(Satele, Mcglynn) certainly dont overshadow the good ones and I know he has made some good picks like the ones you named, I guess Im just more disappointed in Grigsons apparent unwillingness to sign an established Center instead electing apparently to let a 2nd year player and Costa to fight it out to see who starts

 

I'm sort of disappointed as well. I was hoping we'd sign either EDS or Hawley, and neither of those happened (I think Hawley was on Grigson's radar, based on reports). But like Grigson is saying, they drafted Holmes to be the starter. Signing a starter ahead of him means your plan never gets a chance to develop.

 

I just don't agree with the idea that Grigson can't evaluate offensive linemen just because we don't like Costa. So far, his notable linemen acquisitions are actually a net-positive. The problem is just that Satele and McGlynn were so bad, and we kept starting them. Now they're gone; hopefully that's the change we needed.

[Gavin]

your opinions are no better or of no more value then mine so shove it with high and mighty attitude

[Valpo2004]

No the bad picks(Satele, Mcglynn) certainly dont overshadow the good ones and I know he has made some good picks like the ones you named, I guess Im just more disappointed in Grigsons apparent unwillingness to sign an established Center instead electing apparently to let a 2nd year player and Costa to fight it out to see who starts

 

It seems risky to me too.  On the other hand, if it works out it's an excellent pay off considering we have both of them on cheap contracts.

 

I guess eventually you have to roll the dice on young players on cheap contracts to build a good team.  

[Gavin]

I'm sort of disappointed as well. I was hoping we'd sign either EDS or Hawley, and neither of those happened (I think Hawley was on Grigson's radar, based on reports). But like Grigson is saying, they drafted Holmes to be the starter. Signing a starter ahead of him means your plan never gets a chance to develop.

 

I just don't agree with the idea that Grigson can't evaluate offensive linemen just because we don't like Costa. So far, his notable linemen acquisitions are actually a net-positive. The problem is just that Satele and McGlynn were so bad, and we kept starting them. Now they're gone; hopefully that's the change we needed.

Yeah, I agree, I think many (like myself) are just a bit on edge with the interior o line situation (in this case Center) due to watching the mess that was Satele and Mcglynn

[austriancolt]

Analysis on Holmes from NFL.COM

 

ANALYSIS STRENGTHS  Tenacious player who gets after any defensive lineman in his path – and teammates who aren’t getting the job done. Sustains blocks through the whistle and takes his man backwards and drives them to the ground regularly. Quick feet for his size, can reach second-level targets or get out in front of screens. Hustles to help either guard, or both on the same play, when uncovered. Good mover on zone plays. Uses his hands and bulk to move his man out of the hole. Usually anchors even when his man gets his hands up quickly after the snap. Good student, has already graduated with a double major of classics and communication. WEAKNESSES  Taller than the average center, doesn’t sit into his stance as low as many in the pivot. Must play with more knee bend, overextends at the waist while engaged and ends up on the ground too often. Does not always recognize inside blitzes, attacks a lineman and allows linebacker to come through the middle without an attempt to slow him down. NFL COMPARISON  Brian De La Puente BOTTOM LINE

 This tall, physical, mobile, and intelligent interior lineman first snapped for quarterback Matt Barkley first at Mater Dei High School in California, and then for the Trojans in 2011 and 2012 after starting at guard as a sophomore. Holmes dealt with ankle and leg injuries all season, and the Trojans interior offensive line took a huge step back without him. The senior will need to prove his health since he projects best to a heavy zone blocking scheme.

 

 

That Holmes is struggling with injurys concerns me a lot!

[Superman]

I think the Costa "answer" is a really simple one. He was signed for around vet min. , makes less than Reitz this year. I believe only around 500K guaranteed. The Mack situation is obvious and by all reports all the other available centers have some warts. Makes sense if you saw the contracts and how slowly they were signed. So bottom line is the whole thing is a process and Grigson felt this cap room (diff between Costa and other C's) would have more impact if spent elsewhere.

 

I don't know what kind of money Goodwin or Montgomery are looking for, but I think the impact of paying one of them two or three times more than Costa is making would be noteworthy. 

 

This doesn't matter if Holmes is good, but having a higher rated emergency plan than Costa would be encouraging to me.

[csmopar]

All I know is that Grigson better keep a bag or two packed come fall, cause if he's wrong on this and we go through a third year of Luck getting hammered behind a crappy line, he'll be running out of town being chased by pitch forks. I don't really care that we have decided not to pursue Mack, it was a slim chance, I admit I wanted Mack but I would be happy with a solid line. Right now, I'll hold off judgement on Holmes, but been watching film of Costa, he's a cheaper and barely better version of Satele. Meaning Luck is screwed....

[jvan1973]

your opinions are no better or of no more value then mine so shove it with high and mighty attitude

I'm sure your evaluations of oline talent is matched by no other

[Superman]

Yeah, I agree, I think many (like myself) are just a bit on edge with the interior o line situation (in this case Center) due to watching the mess that was Satele and Mcglynn

 

They're both gone. To me, that's the biggest part of the plan. I know people sometimes say "anyone would be better than..." and it's misplaced, but in this case, I truly believe that practically anyone would be better than Satele or McGlynn at C and RG. Replacing both of them is a good thing. That's 40% of our line play, at the two weakest positions. 

[Valpo2004]

Analysis on Holmes from NFL.COM

 

ANALYSIS STRENGTHS  Tenacious player who gets after any defensive lineman in his path – and teammates who aren’t getting the job done. Sustains blocks through the whistle and takes his man backwards and drives them to the ground regularly. Quick feet for his size, can reach second-level targets or get out in front of screens. Hustles to help either guard, or both on the same play, when uncovered. Good mover on zone plays. Uses his hands and bulk to move his man out of the hole. Usually anchors even when his man gets his hands up quickly after the snap. Good student, has already graduated with a double major of classics and communication. WEAKNESSES  Taller than the average center, doesn’t sit into his stance as low as many in the pivot. Must play with more knee bend, overextends at the waist while engaged and ends up on the ground too often. Does not always recognize inside blitzes, attacks a lineman and allows linebacker to come through the middle without an attempt to slow him down. NFL COMPARISON  Brian De La Puente BOTTOM LINE

 This tall, physical, mobile, and intelligent interior lineman first snapped for quarterback Matt Barkley first at Mater Dei High School in California, and then for the Trojans in 2011 and 2012 after starting at guard as a sophomore. Holmes dealt with ankle and leg injuries all season, and the Trojans interior offensive line took a huge step back without him. The senior will need to prove his health since he projects best to a heavy zone blocking scheme.

 

 

That Holmes is struggling with injurys concerns me a lot!

 

Well he got to basically sit the entire season last year so I would think he'd be healed.  I'm more curious as to what level of pick they think he would be without injury concerns.

 

Like I read somewhere back in 2012 that Josh Chapman was projected to be a 2nd round pick before his knee injury.  So we got good value out of him.  

[Superman]

All I know is that Grigson better keep a bag or two packed come fall, cause if he's wrong on this and we go through a third year of Luck getting hammered behind a crappy line, he'll be running out of town being chased by pitch forks. I don't really care that we have decided not to pursue Mack, it was a slim chance, I admit I wanted Mack but I would be happy with a solid line. Right now, I'll hold off judgement on Holmes, but been watching film of Costa, he's a cheaper and barely better version of Satele. Meaning Luck is screwed....

 

Grigson isn't going anywhere. Despite the angst among fans, he's done a good job as GM, and our team continues to get better. 

 

Let's not go overboard here in March.

[Gavin]

I'm sure your evaluations of oline talent is matched by no other

 your to predictable

[Mameluc]

No the bad picks(Satele, Mcglynn) certainly dont overshadow the good ones and I know he has made some good picks like the ones you named, I guess Im just more disappointed in Grigsons apparent unwillingness to sign an established Center instead electing apparently to let a 2nd year player and Costa to fight it out to see who starts

but what stablished C was tehre in FA? Mack was a dream lets face it.

 

 

just because you liked EDS  doesnt mean Grigson liked or that he is taht good to begin with it. I have said this before, but pats, colts, ravens, saints all had giantic holes at C. Not to mention the packers, who know the player best, and none had any interest in bringing him for a visit.

 

 

And De la puente, is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated in this board in my opinion. 

 

Im as frustrated as you are, we want this freaking OL to rock for once. but we cant sit here and say we lsot a gem. cause then, at least 6 other team lost it also.

[Superman]

Well he got to basically sit the entire season last year so I would think he'd be healed.  I'm more curious as to what level of pick they think he would be without injury concerns.

 

Like I read somewhere back in 2012 that Josh Chapman was projected to be a 2nd round pick before his knee injury.  So we got good value out of him.  

 

He actually got to play some at the end of the year, and while it wasn't at interior line, he looked strong and athletic. If he's healthy and stays healthy, and gets starter's snaps in the offseason program, then he should be okay. 

 

Prior to his senior year at USC, he was considered a potential second round prospect. His injuries and inconsistent play in 2012 caused him to drop, but he was still projected as a 4th/5th round pick, which is right were we got him. 

 

Given how conservative our front office and coaching staff tends to be in dealing with injured players, it's not surprising that he got stuck as an inactive practically all season. We'll see what he looks like in August.

[YOUR GM]

Ok, so we're rolling with what we have, basically. My question is, what about the past 2 seasons should give me any confidence in this coaching staff to coach the young players up, or better yet, put the best 5 on the field? Satele and McGlynn continued to start, despite being outplayed by a number of players, while the guys that we're seemingly placing our trust in on the line going forward couldn't even get on the field last year.

Everyone keeps saying that Grigson has a plan and they trust him, but I'm of the opinion that he really doesn't have a plan, and is just being reactionary. Either that, or his plans and that of the coaching staffs aren't exactly the same. If the plan was to breed Holmes as the starter all along, he should've been in the damn rotation last year. You can trust this inexperienced regime all you want, but unless they blitz the offensive line issue in the draft early, I see another year of poor line play. That's inexcusable for a club that's supposedly going to field a power run attack. An absolute joke.

[Superman]

but what stablished C was tehre in FA? Mack was a dream lets face it.

 

 

just because you liked EDS  doesnt mean Grigson liked or that he is taht good to begin with it. I have said this before, but pats, colts, ravens, saints all had giantic holes at C. Not to mention the packers, who know the player best, and none had any interest in bringing him for a visit.

 

 

And De la puente, is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated in this board in my opinion. 

 

Im as frustrated as you are, we want this freaking OL to rock for once. but we cant sit here and say we lsot a gem. cause then, at least 6 other team lost it also.

 

I don't know how Grigson felt about EDS; seems pretty obvious that he didn't consider him to be good enough to push Holmes aside as the future starter. But that doesn't mean EDS isn't good. He is, and he'll be even better in Tampa playing with really good guards, assuming Nicks is healthy. I wish we had signed him and used Holmes as a guard/center swing backup, and left Costa on the market. An extra $3m/year would have been more than worth it.

 

de la Puente gets more overrated here every day, but he's still better than what we had last year. I'm fine with passing on him. Interestingly, Holmes was compared to de le Puente coming out. 

[CardiacColts]

I actually feel a bit relieved about this. Don't get me wrong, I would still like to see a free safety added as well as some interior line depth; however, I didn't like the idea of pumping a ton of money into the center position. Everyone here clamoring for guys like EDS just wanted anything but Sattele. In green bay, they weren't even sure about keeping him on the roster a couple years ago. He was their McGlynn, bouncing all over the line looking for a place to contribute. I'm happy he got himself a deal, but I believe in Holmes. Grigs has always been up front about not liking to play rookie lineman. Yes Sattele beyond struggled, but we on this forum were the only ones to perceive this as indicative of Holmes' ineptitude. I bet Grigs just wanted to save him from failure, or he could have just wanted to allow him to develop appropriately. I'm down with it. Holmes will get his shot. On that note, everyone saying we're going to draft Marcus Martin I believe are off the mark. I really don't see us drafting a guy who played ONE YEAR of center at USC to replace the center we drafted from USC who started ahead of Martin, without even giving Holmes a shot. I know Hugh Thornton will be a monster at his more natural right guard position. Let's be real, Thornton was a rookie who was forced into the starting lineup and out of position on the fly due to Thomas' injury. That will not be the case this year. I knew Thomas' recovery was going a little slow, but a torn quad is worse than a torn ACL. It's disappointing to hear, but not a red flag yet. He will be back in time for TC, imo. Thornton in his second year should be much improved at right guard. Grigs sees something in Holmes if he's that confident. I mean come on, there are affordable center options available and we haven't even kicked the tires. That to me is indicative of Holmes' development. That is certainly an optimistic take, but I'm going to roll with it. Go Horseshoe!!!     

[Maniq]

Ok, so we're rolling with what we have, basically. My question is, what about the past 2 seasons should give me any confidence in this coaching staff to coach the young players up, or better yet, put the best 5 on the field? Satele and McGlynn continued to start, despite being outplayed by a number of players, while the guys that we're seemingly placing our trust in on the line going forward couldn't even get on the field last year.

Everyone keeps saying that Grigson has a plan and they trust him, but I'm of the opinion that he really doesn't have a plan, and is just being reactionary. Either that, or his plans and that of the coaching staffs aren't exactly the same. If the plan was to breed Holmes as the starter all along, he should've been in the damn rotation last year. You can trust this inexperienced regime all you want, but unless they blitz the offensive line issue in the draft early, I see another year of poor line play. That's inexcusable for a club that's supposedly going to field a power run attack. An absolute joke.

Wasn't he injured?

[lollygagger8]

I think Grigson is just throwing everyone off. 

 

I do like the garlic reference though lol.

[csmopar]

Grigson isn't going anywhere. Despite the angst among fans, he's done a good job as GM, and our team continues to get better. 

 

Let's not go overboard here in March.

im not saying he hasn't. I just hope hes right. but regardless we still need to draft Oline