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vitoaf27

Report: Colts in talks for Alex Mack (mega-merge)

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One really important thing people don't seem to know. You can't negotiate with a player who was transition tagged until march 22. Cant visit either. That's why there is nothing doing with Mack right now. Teams are making enquiries but that's all that's allowed. Same deal with the OLB from the steelers.

 

I thought the Bengals used the transition tag on Andrew Hawkins and decided not to match the browns offer? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

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I guess Mack can just come out and say he doesn't want to be in Cleveland, but even then they'll probably re-sign and try to trade him or something. I just dont see how signing him is a realistic possibility

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Posted Today, 04:49 PM

bavanlan, on 18 Mar 2014 - 5:35 PM, said:snapback.png

 

 

Coffeedrinker, on 18 Mar 2014 - 5:47 PM, said:snapback.png

I don't think that's true.  Everything I've read indicates that teams could start negotiating with the transition player when free agency started.  Nothing has happened with Worilds because he signed the transition offer and took himself off the market.

 

 

I stand corrected.

 

Don't be to quick too give up on yourself.  Franchised players could be signed 3/11.  In previous years, franchised and transitioned players could be signed on the same date. Guess what else happened 3/11/14-

 

March 11 -- All 2013 player contracts will expire at 4:00 p.m., New York time.

 

So I find it hard to believe that Mack (since Worilds signed his tender) is the only player to not have a contract, and not be able to negotiate for one as well.  It also seems funny that the NFL would allow the negotiation period to begin on a Saturday.  My suspicion is there is a typo and all tagged players could receive and sign offers beginning 3/11.

 

There would be articles on why Mack has to wait to get offers, rather than why there's no interest.  Just too much smoke for me to  not continue to look for the fire.

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I thought the Bengals used the transition tag on Andrew Hawkins and decided not to match the browns offer? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I don't think he was.  Only Graham, Folk, Hardy, and Orakpo were franchise tagged, and only Worilds and Mack were transition tagged this year.

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I thought the Bengals used the transition tag on Andrew Hawkins and decided not to match the browns offer? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought he was a RFA.

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Does no one ever wonder why he only got 4 years 20 million?

 

He didn't even get that much, and yes, I do wonder about that. But I think it's pertinent that no other centers have signed so far either, except Costa and Hawley. Costa is irrelevant, and Hawley stayed at home. So maybe everyone is waiting for the Mack domino to fall, and EDS and the Bucs were on the same page.

 

I don't know, just think he'd have been a great addition for us.

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He didn't even get that much, and yes, I do wonder about that. But I think it's pertinent that no other centers have signed so far either, except Costa and Hawley. Costa is irrelevant, and Hawley stayed at home. So maybe everyone is waiting for the Mack domino to fall, and EDS and the Bucs were on the same page.

 

I don't know, just think he'd have been a great addition for us.

I've kinda got my eye on Bryan Stork now(which will also prove to be pointless after Grigson passes on him), Though I think what we see at Center right now for the Colts is what we get come training camp and beyond barring injury at that position, I was pretty locked into getting EDS but pretty well figured we were not going to go after him for whatever reason

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I've kinda got my eye on Bryan Stork now, Though I think what we see at Center right now for the Colts is what we get come training camp and beyond barring injury at that position

 

I'd just rather not draft another guy right now. Would rather add young playmakers, the guys who can actually get on the field in limited roles.

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I'd just rather not draft another guy right now. Would rather add young playmakers, the guys who can actually get on the field in limited roles.

Yeah I agree pretty much, Would love for Grigson to pick up a vet Center though

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We still haven't seen Holmes yet and we already classified him as a bust. Let's see how they look during preseason before we get too concerned about this position. On a positive note I think the rest of our starting O-line is very solid.


 


Cherilus was an awesome RT for us last year, very consistent.


Costanzo looked good when he had Donald Thomas next to him throughout preseason and week 1.


Thornton had a few mistakes on his reads, but his technique and strength were really good and he held his own as a rookie and looks very promising as a long term fit.


Donald Thomas in my opinion is our best lineman. He looked freaking amazing during preseason, flawless technique and rarely missed his reads.


With 2 solid guards on both sides of our center, I think they will gel really well.


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We still haven't seen Holmes yet and we already classified him as a bust. Let's see how they look during preseason before we get too concerned about this position. On a positive note I think the rest of our starting O-line is very solid.

 

Cherilus was an awesome RT for us last year, very consistent.

Costanzo looked good when he had Donald Thomas next to him throughout preseason and week 1.

Thornton had a few mistakes on his reads, but his technique and strength were really good and he held his own as a rookie and looks very promising as a long term fit.

Donald Thomas in my opinion is our best lineman. He looked freaking amazing during preseason, flawless technique and rarely missed his reads.

With 2 solid guards on both sides of our center, I think they will gel really well.

 

 

I don't think anyone has called Holmes a bust; if they have, I've immediately dismissed them. 

 

But I'm still super-duper nervous about starting Holmes next year. Would feel much better signing a vet who can start right away, and letting Holmes be a swing backup.

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Florio's suggestion of Mack needing to sign the tender before they pull it really doesn't make sense at this point.  It may in July, but it doesn't now.  It would be a huge roll of the dice to put Mack in the open market uninhibited right now, and punch his ticket out of town.

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Florio's suggestion of Mack needing to sign the tender before they pull it really doesn't make sense at this point.  It may in July, but it doesn't now.  It would be a huge roll of the dice to put Mack in the open market uninhibited right now, and punch his ticket out of town.

Yep, Florio botched that part. If Mack doesn't sign either another teams offer or the Tender by Jul 22, only the Browns exclusively can negotiate any deal for him to play at all in 2014. No reason for Browns to rescind the offer for any reason at all at this point. None.

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One really important thing people don't seem to know. You can't negotiate with a player who was transition tagged until march 22. Cant visit either. That's why there is nothing doing with Mack right now. Teams are making enquiries but that's all that's allowed. Same deal with the OLB from the steelers.

 

Sorry to do this, but it's wrong like I originally thought.  Official NFL press release:

 

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/03-03-14-franchise-transition-players-named1.pdf

 

The signing period for transition players begins at 4:00 p.m. (ET) on March 11 and ends on July 22. After July 22 and until 4:00p.m. (ET) on the Tuesday following the 10th week of the season (November 11), the prior club has exclusive negotiating rights.

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Posted Today, 11:26 PM

PeterBowman, on 18 Mar 2014 - 5:27 PM, said:snapback.png

where did you see they can't negotiate until 3/22? if that's true, then that means there's still a chance (how big, who knows)

 

 

 

No, that info was not correct. All teams could have talks/visits with Mack and/or his agent since 3/11/2014 at 4:00 pm EST (New York).  bavanlan found the NFL press release in the post right above yours.

 

I honestly believe no team will offer more than 8-9 million avg on a multiyear deal.  And I don't see the Browns not matching that and letting him walk to another team. Unless it is created advantageously to the Colts and not the Browns, without using poison pill tactics (the contract would be deemed void by the league in short order if it is constructed as such)So yes, we have a chance but it is still so very slim. And no team has had a visit or offered a contract to Mack as of the present.  We could just end up going with those on our roster right now, and possibly add from the draft.

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Posted Today, 11:26 PM

PeterBowman, on 18 Mar 2014 - 5:27 PM, said:snapback.png

 

 

 

No, that info was not correct. All teams could have talks/visits with Mack and/or his agent since 3/11/2014 at 4:00 pm EST (New York).  bavanlan found the NFL press release in the post right above yours.

 

I honestly believe no team will offer more than 8-9 million avg on a multiyear deal.  And I don't see the Browns not matching that and letting him walk to another team. So yes, we have a chance but it is still so very slim. And no team has had a visit or offered a contract to Mack as of the present.

 

 

Just food for thought.....

 

But, all Cleveland has offered is the tag -- meaning a 1-year deal.

 

I'm not sure it's clear that Cleveland values Mack to the extent of say, a 6-year deal for $50 Mill with a whole bunch guaranteed.

 

Maybe they do.   But if they do, why haven't they offered that?     I think it's possible they might get scared off by a big long-term deal.     Possible.

 

Either way,  I'm happy to force them to spend every dollar they need to spend to retain Mack.    That's part of how the game is played.

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Just food for thought.....

 

But, all Cleveland has offered is the tag -- meaning a 1-year deal.

 

I'm not sure it's clear that Cleveland values Mack to the extent of say, a 6-year deal for $50 Mill with a whole bunch guaranteed.

 

Maybe they do.   But if they do, why haven't they offered that?     I think it's possible they might get scared off by a big long-term deal.     Possible.

 

Either way,  I'm happy to force them to spend every dollar they need to spend to retain Mack.    That's part of how the game is played.

 

Mack told the team he wanted to see what the market was for him, such he wasn't interested in along term deal until FA hit.  He also mentioned he would give Cleveland a chance to match.  Cleveland took that to heart and transitioned him to let him feel out the market.  The transition tag gives Cleveland the opportunity to match a teams offer at market price.  If no team extends an offer, Cleveland has exclusive rights to negotiate a long term deal after July 22 and during the season.

 

Look, if they didn't want him at all,or were not prepared to match a market driven contract, then why even transition tag him, knowing he would command a guaranteed 10 million in pay and off their cap if no nobody made an acceptable offer? They did it to let other team(s) set the market, and then match it knowing they got him for a market price, but one that was set by the other team(s); and Mack would know this.  But Mack's agent says he could construct a contract that would be advantageous to the offering team that Cleveland would not be keen on matching and would pass NFL standards ( IE: no poison pill clauses ).  But we don't know what those terms would be and if any team would be willing to make that contract offer.  If they don't Cleveland is n the hook for 10 million this year.  And why pay him that and not talk to him about a long term deal that averages just under that amount? That's why I feel it to be a slim chance.

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Mack told the team he wanted to see what the market was for him, such he wasn't interested in along term deal until FA hit.  He also mentioned he would give Cleveland a chance to match.  Cleveland took that to heart and transitioned him to let him feel out the market.  The transition tag gives Cleveland the opportunity to match a teams offer at market price.  If no team extends an offer, Cleveland has exclusive rights to negotiate a long term deal after July 22 and during the season.

 

Look, if they didn't want him at all,or were not prepared to match a market driven contract, then why even transition tag him, knowing he would command a guaranteed 10 million in pay and off their cap if no nobody made an acceptable offer? They did it to let other team(s) set the market, and then match it knowing they got him for a market price, but one that was set by the other team(s); and Mack would know this.  But Mack's agent says he could construct a contract that would be advantageous to the offering team that Cleveland would not be keen on matching and would pass NFL standards ( IE: no poison pill clauses ).  But we don't know what those terms would be and if any team would be willing to make that contract offer.  If they don't Cleveland is n the hook for 10 million this year.  And why pay him that and not talk to him about a long term deal that averages just under that amount? That's why I feel it to be a slim chance.

 

Are we (you) sure that we don't know what those terms are?

 

What's to stop the agent from talking with Ryan Grigson and telling him exactly what those terms to make sure that Grigson himself is willing to pay those terms.  

 

I think the agent is orchestrating this.    I think Mack and the agent have to play nice with Cleveland because the odds are Mack will be back with Cleveland.   More than 50 chance he's back in Ohio.    I just don't know how much more than that?

 

I think we're following along because we've got a shot....  perhaps a decent shot.     Now, whether we have a back-up plan in case the Mack deal never happens, or if we offer a big deal, but Cleveland matches,   I don't know....    I hope we do...   but I don't know.

 

I think the Colts are in-the-loop on this....  whether it amounts to anything is pure speculation.........

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browns just payed 13.5 for a hawkins wr bengals   offer might be a little less now  as long as it can beat other teams offers  :rulez: :2c::stir::catfight:  :facepalm::loco::beg::hat: :disco:

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browns just payed 13.5 for a hawkins wr bengals   offer might be a little less now  as long as it can beat other teams offers  :rulez: :2c::stir::catfight:  :facepalm::loco::beg::hat: :disco:

 

One report says 12.2 million over 4 years, the first years pay 4.8 million.  only 500k guaranteed in 2015 for injury and the 2.5 mil and 2,6 mil base salary in 2016 and 2017 is not guaranteed. There is also 900,000 in incentive escalations. (Spotrac reports this too)  Cincy was supposedly seriously considering matching this.  

 

The next  report I see says- "The Browns won this particular Battle of Ohio by wisely frontloading the deal, which made it tough for the Bengals to match. It's for four years and $13.6 million, including a $3.8 million signing bonus and $10.8 million over the first two years."  So how much does the guy make in years 3 and 4 of the contract? And will he still be ok with that down the road?  Hmmm...

 

I can see the Bengals not wanting to match that. They already have wideouts A.J. Green, Mohamed Sanu, and Marvin Jones under contract, not to mention their tight ends Jermaine Gresham and Tyler Eifort.  Furthermore, which contract is right?  The fact Cincy waited almost the full 5 days, hints at the former.  But if the latter, it shows me how far a team has to reach to get a player these days with a transition tag.  Would YOU offer Hawkins almost 11 million guaranteed in a two year contract, with a meager non-guaranteed salary tacked on in years 3 and 4 (that a player may even hold out on?)  No?  But you would do 12 million /yr (I have seen that figure) and a likewise mega front load of guaranteed money to get Mack?   :dunno:  And what is Cleveland's plan if they lose Mack?

 

http://www.cincyjungle.com/contracts/2014/3/12/5499976/breaking-down-andrew-hawkins-contract

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/cleveland_browns_swipe_wr_andr.html

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/andrew-hawkins/

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What so this thread won't get any more posts or grow for four days???

 

and then if the Colts make Mack an offer, fans will have to wait seven more days while Cleveland decides if it wants to match???

 

insanity...

Locked until 3-22?  :)

 

:locked:

 

:yeahright:

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If we can't get Mack, Brian De La Puente would be a good signing as well and for a lot less. He blocked for Brees the last 3 years and they put up great numbers, always a top 5 offense and won a lot of games.

 

 Btw BDP Madden rating is a 88 compared to Mack 92, and EDS 80. Other then the eye test those ratings are usually accurate when comparing players. It was accurate last year as well because Cherilus was the only player rated high out of all of the Colts signings last year. 

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If we can't get Mack, Brian De La Puente would be a good signing as well and for a lot less. He blocked for Brees the last 3 years and they put up great numbers, always a top 5 offense and won a lot of games.

 

 Btw BDP Madden rating is a 88 compared to Mack 92, and EDS 80. Other then the eye test those ratings are usually accurate when comparing players. It was accurate last year as well because Cherilus was the only player rated high out of all of the Colts signings last year. 

Seriously...did you use Madden ratings? I'm not going to say anything but prepare for the back lash lol...people take their Centers very serious around here...and throwing Madden into it probably isn't going to help your case.

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If we can't get Mack, Brian De La Puente would be a good signing as well and for a lot less. He blocked for Brees the last 3 years and they put up great numbers, always a top 5 offense and won a lot of games.

Btw BDP Madden rating is a 88 compared to Mack 92, and EDS 80. Other then the eye test those ratings are usually accurate when comparing players. It was accurate last year as well because Cherilus was the only player rated high out of all of the Colts signings last year.

Madden? really?

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You must have only read one part of what i said before you replied. I also said i use the "eye test" first when comparing players. Madden Ratings are actually more accurate then a lot of other advanced football stats that some other guys use. I was just trying to give an example of how theirs other Centers out there like Brian De La Puente that maybe not as good as Mack but are well above average that we could still sign.

 

Seriously...did you use Madden ratings? I'm not going to say anything but prepare for the back lash lol...people take their Centers very serious around here...and throwing Madden into it probably isn't going to help your case.

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You must have only read one part of what i said before you replied. I also said i use the "eye test" first when comparing players. Madden Ratings are actually more accurate then a lot of other advanced football stats that some other guys use. I was just trying to give an example of how theirs other Centers out there like Brian De La Puente that maybe not as good as Mack but are well above average that we could still sign.

See post above...thats what I'm saying..even mentioning Madden is sacrolige around here lol.

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You must have only read one part of what i said before you replied. I also said i use the "eye test" first when comparing players. Madden Ratings are actually more accurate then a lot of other advanced football stats that some other guys use. I was just trying to give an example of how theirs other Centers out there like Brian De La Puente that maybe not as good as Mack but are well above average that we could still sign.

haha madden ratings. That's funny dude

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haha madden ratings. That's funny dude

 

Why yes, I would love to trade you a 40 year old linebacker converted to defensive end to improve his rating that I JUST signed off the street for your #1OVR pick!

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If we can't get Mack, Brian De La Puente would be a good signing as well and for a lot less. He blocked for Brees the last 3 years and they put up great numbers, always a top 5 offense and won a lot of games.

 

 Btw BDP Madden rating is a 88 compared to Mack 92, and EDS 80. Other then the eye test those ratings are usually accurate when comparing players. It was accurate last year as well because Cherilus was the only player rated high out of all of the Colts signings last year. 

 

 

Just reading where is scheduled to visit Washington. 

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If we can't get Mack, Brian De La Puente would be a good signing as well and for a lot less. He blocked for Brees the last 3 years and they put up great numbers, always a top 5 offense and won a lot of games.

Btw BDP Madden rating is a 88 compared to Mack 92, and EDS 80. Other then the eye test those ratings are usually accurate when comparing players. It was accurate last year as well because Cherilus was the only player rated high out of all of the Colts signings last year.

Wasn't Satele around 79 or so in it this year? Somewhat ruins their credibility :P.

What am I saying TRich is still 81!

Seriously Madden ratings, especially just looking at overall are a awful yard stick in the real world.

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Small update.

 

  1. @KBowenColts Its been a while, any update on the Colts looking into Alex Mack? If not, have they been looking into anybody else at Center?

  2.  

    @ColtStrong07 Haven't heard anything on the Mack front from really anyone in the NFL. It's been very, very quiet in free agency this week.

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Heres a few more Reply 

  1. @ColtStrong07 It's like a game of poker with the transition tag. No matter what, I think they walk away with a decent free agent soon.

     

    1. @ColtStrong07 I think they'll wait to see what else Cleveland does. They have too much money right now, they can match anything

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Lets hope nothing happens between Redskins and BDLP.

 

 

 

Why? If the Colts were truly interested in BDLP, he would probably already be a Colt. IMO, BDLP is not much of an improvement over who we have. He is not a good man blocking center, which is what he would have to do here the majority of the time. He isn't very strong and would not be able to open holes in the running game. Like I said, if the Colts had any interest in signing him, I'm sure he would already be here. It's not like he's getting a whole bunch of offers from other teams.

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