Report: Colts in talks for Alex Mack (mega-merge)

[Coltsfanforlife12]

Closer to 40, actually. And they're pretty much done with major FA moves, maybe a few small contracts (and Mack, of course).

They had close to 40 mil to start out... There is no way they still have that after giving the contract they did to Witner, Dansby, Tate, and Hawkins. I saw on a Browns website that it was estimated that after signing Witner and Dansby the would have about 32.2 mil in cap.  My guess is that they have around 28 to 25 mil left.  Calculating in draft picks and Mack's contract I'd guess they have between 15 and 12 mil in cap left.

[AgentOrange]

They had close to 40 mil to start out... There is no way they still have that after giving the contract they did to Witner, Dansby, Tate, and Hawkins. I saw on a Browns website that it was estimated that after signing Witner and Dansby the would have about 32.2 mil in cap.  My guess is that they have around 28 to 25 mil left.  Calculating in draft picks and Mack's contract I'd guess they have between 15 and 12 mil in cap left.

 

No, they started with about $57 million.

The 32.2 you saw was adjusted for Mack's tender, so it was about 42 before they signed Tate today.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/02/cleveland_browns_have_plenty_o.html

[corgi]

No, they started with about $57 million.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/02/cleveland_browns_have_plenty_o.html

Yeah I saw on over the cap earlier tonight they estimated the Browns had around 38 mil in space currently.

[Coltsfanforlife12]

No, they started with about $57 million.

The 32.2 you saw was adjusted for Mack's tender, so it was about 42 before they signed Tate today.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/02/cleveland_browns_have_plenty_o.html

Yeah I saw that after I made that post.  Although the article I was reading put it closer to 50.  It all remains to be seen what happens..   Honestly I'm not a huge fan of taking the risk on this.  I'd love Mack on this team don't get me wrong.  But De La Puente is still out there and he is a very very solid center and would come cheaper.  According to NFL.com he doesn't have anyone interested in him.  Although he has been linked to the Giants in some articles.

[AgentOrange]

Yeah I saw that after I made that post.  Although the article I was reading put it closer to 50.  It all remains to be seen what happens..   Honestly I'm not a huge fan of taking the risk on this.  I'd love Mack on this team don't get me wrong.  But De La Puente is still out there and he is a very very solid center and would come cheaper.  According to NFL.com he doesn't have anyone interested in him.  Although he has been linked to the Giants in some articles.

That figure of around 50 was probably from before they cut DQ.

[Coltsfanforlife12]

That figure of around 50 was probably from before they cut DQ.

 

That figure of around 50 was probably from before they cut DQ.

I don't think so..  It was an article that was continuously updating on their cap situation and signings.

[Poster X]

Yeah I saw on over the cap earlier tonight they estimated the Browns had around 38 mil in space currently.

That is an impressive number. Shocking really. The Browns have just been sitting on a boatload of cash... and I think if they fielded a winning team the fans in Cleveland would go berserk.

[AgentOrange]

Over the Cap puts the Browns' current estimated cap space at $38,974,887.

(The exact details of Tate's contract today haven't been released yet, just the overall value if all incentives are reached)

 

[AgentOrange]

That is an impressive number. Shocking really. The Browns have just been sitting on a boatload of cash... and I think if they fielded a winning team the fans in Cleveland would go berserk.

 

They had $24.5mil in carry-over from last season. So, while the base cap is $133mil, their cap for 2014 with carry-over and adjustments is a hair under $157mil. Compare that to Indy, who only had about $608,000 in carry-over.

[Johnny Bui]

With a decade full of losing, something good is bound to happen.  Lets see how well they spend their money.  

[Poster X]

With a decade full of losing, something good is bound to happen. Lets see how well they spend their money.

They lost the team at one point... to rise like a phoenix from the ashes of that would be pretty special. Even for a non fan of most things O-hi-o. No offense to anyone from there. I'm a Reds fan too.

[loudnproudcolt]

Guys, Mack would be worth the 10M a year due to what he would mean to our line, and how he would be the anchor for the next 6-8 years. Plus even though the LT's in FA did not break the bank and move the numbers up, next year, when the salary cap jumps again to 140M or more, elite LT's will be making around 11-12, and the best Center in the league next year would be worth 10M, we would just be establishing what the market will be next year. Ahead of our time. I have worked the numbers out, and it would leave us with around 7 million going into the year, and we don't need to worry about our draft since we have no number ones. In 2015 we would still have over 30M, if we cut Toler and Waldon which would not surpise me, but we still have plenty of money to sign Castanzo, T.Y. , Allen, Fleener. We will need to wait on Brazil, but paying Mack would not hinder us in signing our own guys next year, and still have a little left over for FA.

[BrentMc11]

I said Wayyyy back this would be a long process on Mack.  While I am sure he would love to get something done to move on with his life, this is a huge decision for two organizations.

 

As they say, patience is a virtue.....I have a feeling Mack is going to be a Colt.  How can he not like the chances for a Lombardi ?

 

[mattceinicram]

I said Wayyyy back this would be a long process on Mack.  While I am sure he would love to get something done to move on with his life, this is a huge decision for two organizations.

 

As they say, patience is a virtue.....I have a feeling Mack is going to be a Colt.  How can he not like the chances for a Lombardi ?

 

That doesn't matter though, only thing that matters right now is how much the Browns want to keep him.  If it wasn't for the transition tag, I feel Mack would already be a Colt.

[BrentMc11]

That doesn't matter though, only thing that matters right now is how much the Browns want to keep him.  If it wasn't for the transition tag, I feel Mack would already be a Colt.

Agreed!  Mack needs to make it known he does not want to be there....emphatically...IF he truly wants out.

[PrincetonTiger]

That doesn't matter though, only thing that matters right now is how much the Browns want to keep him.  If it wasn't for the transition tag, I feel Mack would already be a Colt.

Very true

[Iancolts]

I think Mack is staying with the browns. They aren't going to let a player of his caliber just walk. Unless he signs a contract and gets traded for draft picks or maybe they will take DHB for him hahah

[MB-ColtsFan]

I know I'm just a fan, but I've moved on. If the FO can get him then fine, but I'm not wasting the mental energy trying to figure out how we could get him.

Just hope that they aren't delaying signing anyone else while Mack makes up his mind.

I don't think that they are, but I also don't the details of the negotiations.

[ricker182]

Mack is definitely worth $12M. I just think the Browns think that too.

[PrincetonTiger]

Mack is definitely worth $12M. I just think the Browns think that too.

Agreed

[jvan1973]

Mack is definitely worth $12M. I just think the Browns think that too.

That is elite LT money. no way a center gets that much

[COLTS449]

Unless we find a long term solution at Center, we'll probably sign Mack next offseason. I wish we'd sign someone like Goodwin for a year if that's the plan.

[PrincetonTiger]

That is elite LT money. no way a center gets that much

All salaries will go up with new cap

[Kyle]

That is elite LT money. no way a center gets that much

so what is elite C money??? 9 mil???  

 

Then add our extreme need at C (unless Holmes comes out of nowhere and is a probowler this year...) and he is worth $12 mil TO THE COLTS.

[Maniq]

so what is elite C money??? 9 mil???  

 

Then add our extreme need at C (unless Holmes comes out of nowhere and is a probowler this year...) and he is worth $12 mil TO THE COLTS.

Sorry, but no he's not.

This love affair for Mack is a little crazy.

I'd like him, sure. People get impatient and just want the player even though it eventually results in a massive contract due to the uncertainty...

That's not how it works. He's a C, and just b/c we've seen bad things with Satele, McGlynn, and some times Thornton doesn't mean we'll have to break the bank to fix it.

[trueblueblood]

Is it possible we've already made an offer and Cleveland is waiting to decide whether or not to match?

[Dustin]

Is it possible we've already made an offer and Cleveland is waiting to decide whether or not to match?

Nah, us extending an offer sheet to Mack would be public by now.

[trueblueblood]

Nah, us extending an offer sheet to Mack would be public by now.

What if giving a first to Cleveland for Richardson was part of some kind of elaborate deal to sign Mack this offseason? Lol

[schwamm]

Mack is definitely worth $12M. I just think the Browns think that too.

If so, why not hit him with the franchise tag instead of the transition tag? If they thought he was worth it, and really want to keep him, I fail to understand the rationale. I can't think of a single reason, other than to try to save a little over $1M... which again makes little sense to me with their available cap.

Or Mack wants out, the Browns are willing to let him go, and are helping ensure a higher price for him?

[Warhawk]

No center is worth 12 million.  And we're not getting him anyway.

[AgentOrange]

If so, why not hit him with the franchise tag instead of the transition tag? If they thought he was worth it, and really want to keep him, I fail to understand the rationale. I can't think of a single reason, other than to try to save a little over $1M... which again makes little sense to me with their available cap.

Or Mack wants out, the Browns are willing to let him go, and are helping ensure a higher price for him?

 

 

Besides the slight savings in money, there's another very good reason - the transition tag is less adversarial.

First and foremost, let's remember, Mack told the Browns  all along - and stated publicly - that, while he wanted to test the waters, he would give them the opportunity to match any offers he got. So, placing the transition tag on him does not affect him negatively in any way. After they placed it on him he said (I'm paraphrasing here) that he was honored that the team thought so highly of him that they used the tag.

Now, let's look at the alternative, the franchise tag. If they had placed the franchise tag on Mack, that would mean that any team that chose to sign him would have to forfeit two #1 picks to get him if the Browns didn't match. Very few players are worth that, certainly not a Center. Placing the franchise tag on Mack would have effectively eliminated any possibility of teams making him an offer. Cleveland would have been preventing Mack from doing what he wanted to do - see what he was worth on the open market. No other teams would bother.

The fact that the Browns used the transition tag rather than the franchise tag would also seem to indicate that they aren't concerned with missing out on those picks because they plan on matching anyway. So there's nothing to be gained by pissing the guy off by denying him the opportunity to shop around a bit.

[BlueCollarColts]

Any updates?

[TKnight24]

This thread is 21 pages of false hope

[MrNLM]

This thread is 21 pages of false hope

How many pages was the "Whopper WR"?

 

That had more hope than this yet, I want this more than I ever wanted a "Whopper WR". 

[PrincetonTiger]

No center is worth 12 million.  And we're not getting him anyway.

We do not know what a center of Mack's Caliber is worth under the new cap

[schwamm]

Besides the slight savings in money, there's another very good reason - the transition tag is less adversarial.

First and foremost, let's remember, Mack told the Browns all along - and stated publicly - that, while he wanted to test the waters, he would give them the opportunity to match any offers he got. So, placing the transition tag on him does not affect him negatively in any way. After they placed it on him he said (I'm paraphrasing here) that he was honored that the team thought so highly of him that they used the tag.

Now, let's look at the alternative, the franchise tag. If they had placed the franchise tag on Mack, that would mean that any team that chose to sign him would have to forfeit two #1 picks to get him if the Browns didn't match. Very few players are worth that, certainly not a Center. Placing the franchise tag on Mack would have effectively eliminated any possibility of teams making him an offer. Cleveland would have been preventing Mack from doing what he wanted to do - see what he was worth on the open market. No other teams would bother.

The fact that the Browns used the transition tag rather than the franchise tag would also seem to indicate that they aren't concerned with missing out on those picks because they plan on matching anyway. So there's nothing to be gained by pissing the guy off by denying him the opportunity to shop around a bit.

Good insight. I guess I do recall that Mack requested a chance to test the market, now that you mention it.

[CopenhagenColt]

It's a fan forum.  It's what we do.  We speculate. We obsess!

Evidently you enjoy it.  You're reading page 20 of this thread.  Don't act like you're holier than thou now!

So anything goes, and reason is entirely out the window?

I have no problem with speculating, discussing options in the draft or anything like that. But there has to be some limit, and when you start blaming Grigson, or any other person in charge of making decisions for the Colts, based on things that you have absolutely no way of knowing anything about, you've crossed that line. In my opinion.

 

I get it. We're all waiting for some exciting news. We really want to have players that can elevate the team to new heights. That's all fine. But let's try to be a little reasonable here, and not jump to conclusions about how Grigson, Pagano etc. do their job this time of the year.

If you feel that it's reasonable to attack their decisions, based on not having any solid information about their actual work, you should probably expect someone actually pointing out that it makes you look a little less than a genius.

[AgentOrange]

Besides the slight savings in money, there's another very good reason - the transition tag is less adversarial.

First and foremost, let's remember, Mack told the Browns  all along - and stated publicly - that, while he wanted to test the waters, he would give them the opportunity to match any offers he got. So, placing the transition tag on him does not affect him negatively in any way. After they placed it on him he said (I'm paraphrasing here) that he was honored that the team thought so highly of him that they used the tag.

Now, let's look at the alternative, the franchise tag. If they had placed the franchise tag on Mack, that would mean that any team that chose to sign him would have to forfeit two #1 picks to get him if the Browns didn't match. Very few players are worth that, certainly not a Center. Placing the franchise tag on Mack would have effectively eliminated any possibility of teams making him an offer. Cleveland would have been preventing Mack from doing what he wanted to do - see what he was worth on the open market. No other teams would bother.

The fact that the Browns used the transition tag rather than the franchise tag would also seem to indicate that they aren't concerned with missing out on those picks because they plan on matching anyway. So there's nothing to be gained by pissing the guy off by denying him the opportunity to shop around a bit.

 

 

Good insight. I guess I do recall that Mack requested a chance to test the market, now that you mention it.

I meant to add another reason, and I forgot. The Browns may wish to use the transition tag this year, then the franchise tag next year, if necessary. You can use the franchise tag in consecutive years, but it's exhorbitantly more expensive to do it that way. If they had used the franchise tag this year, then used it again next year, next year they'd have to pay 120% of the 2015 franchise figure - roughly $14-15 million. By instead using the transition tag this year, they avoid paying that 2nd franchise tag penalty next year. So while the savings this year may be marginal, they would be significant if they choose to tag him again next year.

[1959Colts]

All this hype for Alex Mack! Do we really know he's that great?

Has anyone here actually watched Mack play?

Even if some did watch Cleveland a few times... When watching a game, who pays attention to what the center is doing?

[bavanlan]

All this hype for Alex Mack! Do we really know he's that great?

Has anyone here actually watched Mack play?

Even if some did watch Cleveland a few times... When watching a game, who pays attention to what the center is doing?

 

It's Cleveland, so you're sure not watching the QB.