Jonathan Martin -- would he help our OL? [Merge]

[Modern]

Offensive and defensive lines are basically in a brawl each play. Incognito may be dirty and a scumbag, but in a fight I would rather have him on my side then Martin. Do you want your team walking on eggshells trying not to upset him ? You do realize that there is probably foul language and innuendo in even the classy Colts locker room dont you ?

Reporters hanging around wanting to know how he is working out, wanting to make sure nobody is mean to him. Major distraction. Then to top it off he probably doesnt have the skill set to start, so you have a media circus for a second stringer, remember Tebow in New York ?

If he was a proven player with a solid history, then maybe, but he ran out his second year and wasnt all that great.

The rewards are not worth the risk.

Maybe Dungy can send him to Caldwell for a second chance, but I dont think he is worth the risk here.

And Richardson still sucks .....

[NewColtsFan]

I will respectfully disagree on this one. Martin was consistently manhandled at LT in Miami, they moved him to RT and while he fared better there, he still was not good. He got out muscled and got blown by easily by teams 2nd best pass rushers. I know Martin done pretty good in college, but the pro's are a whole new ballgame and it's been proven time and time again that just because one is good or even great in college, doesn't mean they will have that same success playing with the big boys.

 

I think if he were as terrible as you, and others here suggest,  he would've been released a long, long time ago.

 

Why?   Because who's going to trade a player or a draft pick for a player who is that terrible?   And assume his contract on top of that?

 

Why not wait until he's released and then claim him for nothing and sign him to a veterans minimum?

 

Look....   I've said in every post that I do NOT want Jonathan Martin on the Colts as a starter.    Only as a quality back-up.

 

I've said I don't want to trade more than a 6th round draft pick for him -- tops.    And that I'd prefer to claim him off waivers if at all possible.

 

I've said if JM wants to start and won't come here as a back-up, then I'm fine letting him go elsewhere.

 

He maybe a Stanford kid, but I will never make than an issue for the Colts to sign him or anyone.    I didn't for Stepfan Taylor and I didn't for Chase Thomas.     And I haven't been talking up Ed Reynolds much either.

 

So, I don't think I have any conflict of interest.

 

I don't see the guy as a starter.   But I think he can be a decent, serviceable back-up worth a very small investment.

 

Really.    Nothing more than that.

[Dustin]

I think if he were as terrible as you, and others here suggest,  he would've been released a long, long time ago.

 

Not really. McGlynn is the worst interior lineman in the NFL and has been starting for 2 straight seasons.

[coltsfanatic24]

He would be an upgrade as a 3rd OT but that's about it. He needs to put on more weight and get stronger if he ever wants to start again in the league.

[Gavin]

He dont have the feet of a LT for sure, But he does flash a mean streak but needs to add strength, From what I see Martin gave up the following sacks through 7 starts:

 

11:18 1st Quarter game 1 vs Brown off Groves
 5:03 1st Quarter game 3 vs Falcons Umenyiora
 9:05 3rd Quarter game 5 vs Saints Junior Gallete
 8:12 3rd Quarter game 5 vs Saints Martez Wilson
11:36 4th Quarter game 6 vs Ravens Suggs
 5:25 4th Quarter game 6 vs Ravens Suggs

 

He was not moved to RT this year, That job was held by Clabo

[NewColtsFan]

Not really. McGlynn is the worst interior lineman in the NFL and has been starting for 2 straight seasons.

 

I don't view McGlynn as a starter.

 

He's a back-up pressed into starting duty due to injuries.

 

There's a big, big difference.

[NewColtsFan]

He dont have the feet of a LT for sure, But he does flash a mean streak but needs to add strength, From what I see Martin gave up the following sacks through 7 starts:

11:18 1st Quarter game 1 vs Brown off Groves

 5:03 1st Quarter game 3 vs Falcons Umenyiora

 9:05 3rd Quarter game 5 vs Saints Junior Gallete

 8:12 3rd Quarter game 5 vs Saints Martez Wilson

11:36 4th Quarter game 6 vs Ravens Suggs

 5:25 4th Quarter game 6 vs Ravens Suggs

 

He was not moved to RT this year, That job was held by Clabo

 

I think Clabo played mostly LT....

 

I think that because Martin played next to Incognito who was the Dolphins RG....

[Gavin]

I think Clabo played mostly LT....

 

I think that because Martin played next to Incognito who was the Dolphins RG....

Not from what I see, #71 playing LT

[NewColtsFan]

Not from what I see

 

Perhaps you're right.  

 

Perhaps I'm confusing 2013 and 2012.

 

But I thought that's what I had read during the controversy....

 

Either way,  as I've shared in a number of posts,  I think Martin can be an effective back-up level tackle.

 

I have no interest in him coming to the Colts as a starting tackle.   

 

I have little interest in giving up picks/players to acquire him, or cash to sign him.

 

I see him as a quality back-up and only that....

[Gavin]

Perhaps you're right.  

 

Perhaps I'm confusing 2013 and 2012.

 

But I thought that's what I had read during the controversy....

 

Either way,  as I've shared in a number of posts,  I think Martin can be an effective back-up level tackle.

 

I have no interest in him coming to the Colts as a starting tackle.   

 

I have little interest in giving up picks/players to acquire him, or cash to sign him.

 

I see him as a quality back-up and only that....

I read that to in The Palm Beach Post (An apparent site with news and info regarding Miami) posted online. it was dated October 29th, But through the 7 games he played in this year I just see him at LT....Looking back on the All 22 week 6 of the 2012 season he was playing at RT, Ill have to watch those games to checkout how he did

[Luck2Fleener]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10367211/jonathan-martin-says-felt-trapped-richie-incognito-situation

 

It appears highly likely that the Dolphins will cut Jonathan Martin this offseason. How would a reunion with Luck, Fleener, and Whalen sound in Indianapolis? He was a 2nd round pick in 2012 and still has plenty of potential. His situation in Miami is unfortunate and I believe the uncomfortable situation really affected his play. Coming to Indianapolis where he can play a backup lineman position while being reunited with his old teammates might help him alot. What do you guys think?

[Blackhawk4]

[Gavin]

Back up and only if he builds some strength to play Guard or back up RT, He does not have the feet to play LT....On a side note its amusing when a Scouting Report says in the very first sentence that he has quick feet and later in that same scouting report says he lacks foot speed (CBS Sports)

[IndyScribe]

Nope. And I don't think he wants to come here as much as Whalen did.

[MTC]

I wouldn't mind having Martin here.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Sure. See if he can play guard or be some tackle depth.

[PrincetonTiger]

Only if he can play inside

[Flash7]

I'm fine with Martin. If he can come here and play or add depth at any position on the line, then I don't see why not. That goes with anyone-- only the players who can add to what we already have are welcome.

[Yoshinator]

Here's the thing, if we can get Johnathan Martin off waivers, we do it and see how it works out. Everything suggests he is not good enough to play in the NFL, and he is also a whiny baby that needs to be babysat as well. Sign him to a 2 year deal for the league minimum, if he improves and shines in practice and at training camp, then it'll be worth it. You still have to figure out if he would be fighting for a starting spot at guard or backup tackle as well. He's a second-round pick originally, so if you can get that out of him for a free agent pickup, it'll be a major win for us in what was a relatively bad draft class last year.

[bavanlan]

I long for the day when we're looking at qualifications beyond 'played with Andrew Luck in college'.

[John Waylon]

Sure. He could be good depth and potentially develop into a good starter. 

[wig]

I long for the day when we're looking at qualifications beyond 'played with Andrew Luck in college'.

How about a young, 2nd rd pick that will be extremely cheap?

[seasonticket3]

Bottom line, we have to  rebuild the D-line!!!!  need someone that will demand a double team block!!!!!!

[NewColtsFan]

I long for the day when we're looking at qualifications beyond 'played with Andrew Luck in college'.

 

Really?

 

Who fits that qualification?

 

Only player I can think of is Griff Whalen and he didn't cost the Colts a thing...   he was a Free Agent.

 

Is there someone else who is not worthy of being a Colt and was only brought on because he played with Andrew Luck?

 

If there is,  I'm not aware of it....

[bavanlan]

Really?

 

Who fits that qualification?

 

Only player I can think of is Griff Whalen and he didn't cost the Colts a thing...   he was a Free Agent.

 

Is there someone else who is not worthy of being a Colt and was only brought on because he played with Andrew Luck?

 

If there is,  I'm not aware of it....

 

'We' means the forum, not the Colts.

[bavanlan]

Really?

 

Who fits that qualification?

 

Only player I can think of is Griff Whalen and he didn't cost the Colts a thing...   he was a Free Agent.

 

Is there someone else who is not worthy of being a Colt and was only brought on because he played with Andrew Luck?

 

If there is,  I'm not aware of it....

 

Also, people have wanted us to sign/draft Chris Owusu, Zach Ertz (in the 1st round), Stepfan Taylor (in the 2nd round), as well as trade for Jon Martin and David DeCastro.

[NewColtsFan]

'We' means the forum, not the Colts.

 

Fair enough.....

 

To be clear,  as you (and most everyone knows...)  I'm a Stanford fan and I don't want the Colts to consider Stanford kids simply because they played with Andrew Luck.

 

I measure them the same way I measure all players....   they either fit what we do and what we need, or they don't.

 

If they do fine....   if not,  I'll pass.   

[NewColtsFan]

Also, people have wanted us to sign/draft Chris Owusu, Zach Ertz (in the 1st round), Stepfan Taylor (in the 2nd round), as well as trade for Jon Martin and David DeCastro.

 

-- Owusu has 4.4 speed and 5.4 hands.   He also has trouble staying healthy.

 

-- Ertz was not a first round talent.   2nd round is fine, but once we had Fleener and Allen, I didn't want Ertz and said so.

 

-- From the day I arrived I said I didn't want Taylor before the 5th round and hoped for lower,  same for Chase Thomas.

 

-- I only want Martin as a back-up,  NOT as a starter.    If we can't get him on our terms, then I'd pass.

 

-- DeCastro is the real deal.    But Pittsburgh is NOT giving him up.   We won't get him on a discount.   But DD is very, very good.

 

 

I'm sure there are more...    this draft has guys like Skov and Yankey and Murphy and Reynolds among others.   But we can talk about them another day....     this doesn't need to turn into a Stanford rant...

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I was a Mommy's boy....ya wanna make somethin' of it?   :clap:

 

  could care less - Like what a cake ?   

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

The bolded is the most important part, and right now we don't know what is true and what is not, which makes everything else you said nothing more than an assumption.  

 

Also, sure, a person has to stand up for himself, but when faced with possible threats of physical violence to you and/or loved ones, the lines between what you should do and what you shouldn't do become much less clear.  

 

Wrong IMO   . I grew up in  L.A ,we are very clear in my home town if someone wants some give it to them ,

 

Unfortunately in this PC world people have become weak & allow people like Incognito to exist IMW  bullies get beat down & trust me there is no greater satisfaction than putting a punk in his place .

 

Its all about respect , I can respect a man who sticks up for his self win lose or draw .  But not a coward .

 

I was beat up 9 times in a row as a 10 year old in Long Beach I did'nt want to fight I ran he caught me the 10'th time I won .

Then we were friends that was the 70's .

 

No law no lawyers no running to my mommy .The world has changed alot but bullies are the same ..

[Gavin]

Wrong IMO   . I grew up in  L.A ,we are very clear in my home town if someone wants some give it to them ,

 

Unfortunately in this PC world people have become weak & allow people like Incognito to exist IMW  bullies get beat down & trust me there is no greater satisfaction than putting a punk in his place .

 

Its all about respect , I can respect a man who sticks up for his self win lose or draw .  But not a coward .

 

I was beat up 9 times in a row as a 10 year old in Long Beach I did'nt want to fight I ran he caught me the 10'th time I won .

Then we were friends that was the 70's .

 

No law no lawyers no running to my mommy .The world has changed alot but bullies are the same ..

Thats a 10 year old, not two consenting adults who could face legal trouble for assault if he attacked the other if the other wished to press charges, Not to mention, Like I said above, the press would eat it up 100 times worse then what they are now, Heck for the most part its not really talked about on ESPN/NFL Network anymore, But I guarantee if one would have assaulted the other physically that both stations would been all over it to this day. Now you could take your chances and punch him or beat him up (and I have gotten into a fight or two as an adult and no charges were filed) but your still taking your chances

[Jason_]

Wrong IMO   . I grew up in  L.A ,we are very clear in my home town if someone wants some give it to them ,

 

Unfortunately in this PC world people have become weak & allow people like Incognito to exist IMW  bullies get beat down & trust me there is no greater satisfaction than putting a punk in his place .

 

Its all about respect , I can respect a man who sticks up for his self win lose or draw .  But not a coward .

 

I was beat up 9 times in a row as a 10 year old in Long Beach I did'nt want to fight I ran he caught me the 10'th time I won .

Then we were friends that was the 70's .

 

No law no lawyers no running to my mommy .The world has changed alot but bullies are the same ..

 

Gavin has already made good points to counter your argument, but he missed the one I was thinking about when I said:

but when faced with possible threats of physical violence to you and/or loved ones, the lines between what you should do and what you shouldn't do become much less clear.  

 

People rarely have limits anymore.  Fistfights don't always end when one guy beats up the other.  There are way too many people out there that would rather pull a knife or gun and kill you rather than losing to you in a fight.  

[BrentMc11]

I think if he were as terrible as you, and others here suggest,  he would've been released a long, long time ago.

 

Why?   Because who's going to trade a player or a draft pick for a player who is that terrible?   And assume his contract on top of that?

 

Why not wait until he's released and then claim him for nothing and sign him to a veterans minimum?

 

Look....   I've said in every post that I do NOT want Jonathan Martin on the Colts as a starter.    Only as a quality back-up.

 

I've said I don't want to trade more than a 6th round draft pick for him -- tops.    And that I'd prefer to claim him off waivers if at all possible.

 

I've said if JM wants to start and won't come here as a back-up, then I'm fine letting him go elsewhere.

 

He maybe a Stanford kid, but I will never make than an issue for the Colts to sign him or anyone.    I didn't for Stepfan Taylor and I didn't for Chase Thomas.     And I haven't been talking up Ed Reynolds much either.

 

So, I don't think I have any conflict of interest.

 

I don't see the guy as a starter.   But I think he can be a decent, serviceable back-up worth a very small investment.

 

Really.    Nothing more than that.

How about Skov?  

[BrentMc11]

  could care less - Like what a cake ?   

[Clem-Dog]

I was/am not a Stanford fan.

 

I don't see a problem putting players from an elite program on the roster.  Despite the fact that Stanford players are usually very smart, they are also amongst the most talented players available.  There are many similarities between present day Stanford and Notre Dame players, back when the Irish were consistently a top-8 program.  Notre Dame used to churn out great NFL talent, and I think in the coming years Stanford-bred players will have a similar effect, which is to stock the NFL with competent and capable players, while occasionally producing elite cornerstones (Luck/Sherman).

 

I'm also on board with Skov.  I watched a bit of the bowl game and he was all over the place.  The Colts need a similar player.

 

The only player that I can think of who earned a chance because he was a Cardinal is Griff, and he more than justified the teams investment in him. 

[rock8591]

Frankly, I would rather have Incognito.

[NewColtsFan]

How about Skov?  

 

Skov is a guy I love, but it will all come down to how his badly damaged knee checks out with doctors at the combine.  

 

I think some will clear him....  I think some will red-flag him and some teams will remove him from their boards altogether, and other teams may keep as a draftable,  but downgrade him due to the knee.

 

His knee has improved over the last 2+ years...  and it may improve some more...

 

He's not great at coverage....  but he's very good against the run, and a surprisingly good blitzer from the ILB position.   You don't often see that.

 

HIs best quality -- leadership.   He's liked and respected by all teammates.   He holds himself and his teammates accountable.

Great in the locker-room.

 

I'm sure you know how bad the Stanford OFFENSE looked in the Rose Bowl.    His father shared that after the game Shayne was upset that the DEFENSE didn't play better.    He felt if the defense had played better, Stanford would've won.   Shayne didn't criticize Shaw or the offense.     Shows you the kind of guy he is.  

 

All that said.....   I'm not sure I like him with our pick in the 2nd round.  

 

I'd prefer a DL who can alter the Line of Scrimmage.   Someone who might be able to put more consistent heat on the QB.    I'm not sure Shayne is that guy.

 

Hope that answers your question....

[BrentMc11]

Skov is a guy I love, but it will all come down to how his badly damaged knee checks out with doctors at the combine.  

 

I think some will clear him....  I think some will red-flag him and some teams will remove him from their boards altogether, and other teams may keep as a draftable,  but downgrade him due to the knee.

 

His knee has improved over the last 2+ years...  and it may improve some more...

 

He's not great at coverage....  but he's very good against the run, and a surprisingly good blitzer from the ILB position.   You don't often see that.

 

HIs best quality -- leadership.   He's liked and respected by all teammates.   He holds himself and his teammates accountable.

Great in the locker-room.

 

I'm sure you know how bad the Stanford OFFENSE looked in the Rose Bowl.    His father shared that after the game Shayne was upset that the DEFENSE didn't play better.    He felt if the defense had played better, Stanford would've won.   Shayne didn't criticize Shaw or the offense.     Shows you the kind of guy he is.  

 

All that said.....   I'm not sure I like him with our pick in the 2nd round.  

 

I'd prefer a DL who can alter the Line of Scrimmage.   Someone who might be able to put more consistent heat on the QB.    I'm not sure Shayne is that guy.

 

Hope that answers your question....

I knew you would know!  Thank you.

 

From what I have read, he got his 'burst' back this past year.  I was thinking 3 depending on LBs available.  You know me...I am a BPA fan  Thanks again!!  

[kjyb]

no hell probable get bullied by gosder he seems pretty mean 

[jayt327]

No way. He was average at best in Miami and before his melt down he was being switched to RT because he couldn't handle the pass rushers from the left side. Also, Miami's line got much better after Martin left.