Superman's 2014 mock w/ UDFAs

[coltsfanatic24]

Keenan Allen dropped also because of the PCL tear. Scouts knew he wasn't the fastest guy but having surgery on it made him look even slower. Allen is a better prospect then Matthews both similar though. I like Matthews game and if we had our 1st i would take him in the 2nd but i think CB, ILB are bigger needs. So far at the Senior Bowl i've seen a few players i would take over him like Keith Mcgill CB, Jaylen Watkins CB, and Dee Ford OLB.

 

You just described Keenan Allen. He dropped to the third because he didn't show elite speed, but was described as a good route runner who gets open underneath and creates separation on intermediate routes, catches the ball well, etc. Just won't beat fast corners down the field.

 

Meanwhile, we have three receivers on our roster who can beat corners down the field, but all three struggle getting open underneath. Then we have a guy that is limited in athleticism and isn't that big, but caught 30 passes this year. I'd LOVE to add a player who can get open off the line, a chain mover, with good size and a ton of potential. I have no problem with using a second rounder on that guy. After the way this season went, I'd rather have too many receivers than not enough, especially if you assume that Reggie comes back at 75% or so (which is optimistic for a 35 year old receiver with a torn ACL).

 

I've added depth at CB, though not elite level prospects. Would hope to uncover some true gems from that group. Added a bunch of options and depth at DE/DT. SIgned probably the best ILB on the market. Not sure why I'd use my second rounder on those positions. That's just a completely different approach.

[ztboiler]

You just described Keenan Allen. He dropped to the third because he didn't show elite speed, but was described as a good route runner who gets open underneath and creates separation on intermediate routes, catches the ball well, etc. Just won't beat fast corners down the field.

 

Meanwhile, we have three receivers on our roster who can beat corners down the field, but all three struggle getting open underneath. Then we have a guy that is limited in athleticism and isn't that big, but caught 30 passes this year. I'd LOVE to add a player who can get open off the line, a chain mover, with good size and a ton of potential. I have no problem with using a second rounder on that guy. After the way this season went, I'd rather have too many receivers than not enough, especially if you assume that Reggie comes back at 75% or so (which is optimistic for a 35 year old receiver with a torn ACL).

 

I've added depth at CB, though not elite level prospects. Would hope to uncover some true gems from that group. Added a bunch of options and depth at DE/DT. SIgned probably the best ILB on the market. Not sure why I'd use my second rounder on those positions. That's just a completely different approach.

While I'd be happy to use a 2/3 pick on an ILB, as previously stated, I love your point here about the WR position.  It's never just one thing, but the biggest reason for the lull we hit with slow starts after Reggie went down was a lack of open receivers to throw the ball to.

[Superman]

Keenan Allen dropped also because of the PCL tear. Scouts knew he wasn't the fastest guy but having surgery on it made him look even slower. Allen is a better prospect then Matthews both similar though. I like Matthews game and if we had our 1st i would take him in the 2nd but i think CB, ILB are bigger needs. So far at the Senior Bowl i've seen a few players i would take over him like Keith Mcgill CB, Jaylen Watkins CB, and Dee Ford OLB.

 

That's cool and everything. It's just a different approach. I think CB is being addressed sufficiently. I think ILB is a bigger need, which is why Butler was signed. DE/OLB are being addressed in various ways, adding quality and depth. I just think Matthews is a really good player with good value at the end of the second, and he would be our third or fourth best receiver on Day 1, with a chance to eventually be a rock solid go-to guy on big downs. 

 

And again, the value is better than signing Maclin or Nicks, IMO. 

[throwing BBZ]

The moment you've all been waiting for... ;)

 

I'm doing a full 90-man mock, with lower level signings and undrafted free agents, the whole nine. (Keep in mind that only the top 51 contracts count against the cap prior to final cut day.) The contracts were structured with the help of overthecap.com, using information from there and spotrac.com.

 

Projected 2014 cap is $126.3m + 2013 cap rollover of $1.16m = $127.46m total cap

Colts current 2014 cap obligations are $92.93m = $34.53m cap space

Release Satele, $4m cap savings = $38.53m cap space

Adding $35.3m to the top 51 cap

New cap number for 2014 of $124.23m, leaving $3.23m cap space remaining (should gain about $4m back after final cuts)

 

Re-sign (total top 51 cap added = $17.87m):

Davis; four years, $30m, $17.5m guaranteed, total Year 1 cash of $11m, 2014 cap hit of $6.5m

McAfee; five years, $13.25m, total Year 1 cash of $5m, 2014 cap hit of $1.55m

Bethea; two years, $7m, total cash in Year 1 of $4.25m, 2014 cap hit of $3m

Reitz; one year, $1.33m (RFA)

Gordy; one year, $1.33m (RFA)

Sergio Brown; one year, $1.15m

Conner; one year, $.88m

Vaughn; one year, $.83m

Sidbury; one year, $.73m

Hickman; one year, $.57m (ERFA)

Cam Johnson; one year, $.495m (ERFA)

 

FA signing (total top 51 cap added = $16.13m):

Donald Butler, ILB, Chargers; five years, $30m, $13.5m guaranteed, total Year 1 cash of $10m, 2014 cap hit of $4m (starting MILB, great run defender, would be a great complement to Freeman)

Evan Deitrich-Smith, C, Packers; four years, $20m, $10.75m guaranteeed, total Year 1 cash of $7.25m, 2014 cap hit of $3.25m (fixes the problem at center, lets Holmes remain a backup)

Linval Joseph, DT, Giants; three years, $12m, $4.5m guaranteed, total Year 1 cash of $4.5m, 2014 cap hit of $2.5m (can rotate with Redding at DT, eventually taking over the majority of the starts)

Cam Thomas, NT, Chargers; two years, $6m, $3.125m guaranteed, total Year 1 cash of $3m, 2014 cap hit of $2.375m (was benched at the end of the year, but was a steady run stopper, can back Chapman up)

Eric Wright, CB, Niners; one year, $2.5m (veteran corner, can start or play nickel)

John Jerry, OG, Dolphins; one year, $1.5m (depth at guard, can work as a starter if Thornton struggles at RG)

 

Draft (total top 51 cap added = $1.3m):

2/58: Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt (2014 cap hit of $.7m)

3/90: Carl Bradford, OLB, ASU (2014 cap hit of $.6m) http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-prospect-focus-Carl-Bradford.html  http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carl-bradford-1.html  (pass rusher with athleticism, smallish but instinctive and makes plays)

5/154: Deandre Coleman, DT, Cal (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89537&draftyear=2014&genpos=DT http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/deandre-coleman-1.html (big, athletic, versatile, gets into the backfield, should be a better version of Fili Moala)

6/186: Michael Schofield, OT, Michigan (right tackle) (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89770&draftyear=2014&genpos=OT (right tackle who is working some at guard at the Senior Bowl, has good lateral quickness and doesn't get beat by pass rushers, not great push but usually locks his man down)

7/209: Alden Darby, S, ASU (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=106615&draftyear=2014&genpos=SS http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/alden-darby-1.html (he flies around and makes plays, tackles well, can cover)

 

UDFAs (no top 51 cap added):

Walt Aikens, CB, Liberty (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=91246&draftyear=2014&genpos=CB http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=181588 (great size and athleticism, transferred from Illinois)

Clay Burton, TE, Florida (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=119748&draftyear=2015&genpos=te (Blocking tight end)

Trey Burton, WR, Florida (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=105861&draftyear=2014&genpos=WR http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/trey-burton-1.html (tweener receiver with great size, slot / H-back guy, can block, run and catch)

Travis Carrie, CB, Ohio (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profilexnews.php?pyid=103124&draftyear=2014&genpos=CB (good size, makes plays on the ball, can return punts)

Chandler Catanzaro, K, Clemson (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=92190&draftyear=2014&genpos=K http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/chandler-catanzaro-1.html (good, consistent leg)

Mister Cobble, NT, Kentucky (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=92309&draftyear=2014&genpos=DT reference (talk about a nose tackle, good feet, great size, run stopper)

Aaron Colvin, CB, Oklahoma (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=106335&draftyear=2014&genpos=CB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/aaron-colvin-1.html (another DB with speed, he gets ball carriers down, just tore his ACL and would likely sit the year out)

Austin Franklin, WR, New Mexico State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.optimumscouting.com/draft/articles/2014-nfl-draft-meet-adam-muema-and-austin-franklin-surprise-declarees-with-draftable-talent.html http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/austin-franklin-1.html (quick and fluid receiver, needs to work on hands and physicality, missed time this year because he was academically ineligible)

Bruce Gaston, DT, Purdue (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=107652&draftyear=2014&genpos=DT http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bruce-gaston-1.html (five-tech end, good hands and movement, not great stamina, can get after the passer)

Gator Hoskins, FB/H-Back, Marshall (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=108663&draftyear=2014&genpos=FB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/gator-hoskins-1.html (big guy, good hands, big receiving threat)

Bennett Jackson, CB, Notre Dame (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=108888&draftyear=2014&genpos=CB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bennett-jackson-1.html (tackles well, returned kicks as a freshman, probably more of a zone guy)

Caleb Lavey, ILB, Oklahoma State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=109658&draftyear=2014&genpos=ILB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/caleb-lavey-1.html (smart player who gets to the ball and finishes tackles, decent in coverage, special teams caliber player)

Jerick McKinnon, RB, Georgia Southern (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=110361&draftyear=2014&genpos=RB http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=198709 http://draftbreakdown.com/players/jerick-mckinnon/ (big play ball carrier, can run past defenses easily)

Andrew Norwell, OG, Ohio State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=110917&draftyear=2014&genpos=OG (big guard, limited in space but anchors well, does good in close quarters)

Matt Patchan, OT, Boston College (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83949&draftyear=2014&genpos=OT (athletic with good size, has dealt with a bunch of injuries and just transferred to BC from Florida, long shot but could have the goods to play in the pros)

Quintin Payton, WR, NC State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90148&draftyear=2014&genpos=WR http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=181812

Silas Redd, RB, USC (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=111584&draftyear=2014&genpos=RB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/silas-redd-1.html (physical downhill runner, good power and balance, has some injury issues)

Tyler Starr, OLB, South Dakota (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=113316&draftyear=2014&genpos=OLB http://www.goyotes.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/tyler_starr_801624.html (pass rusher, fumble forcer, gets to the ball and causes trouble)

James Stone, C, TN (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=112697&draftyear=2014&genpos=C (good lateral agility and awareness, good lower body strength, needs to play with better leverage)

Lawrence Virgil, DT, Valdosta State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=113341&draftyear=2014&genpos=DT (3/5-tech end, disruptive, long player)

Avery Williamson, ILB, Kentucky (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=113889&draftyear=2014&genpos=ILB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/avery-williamson-1.html (tackle machine, good leader and hard worker, limited athleticism)

 

Blue = draft picks, Red = free agent acquisitions, Green = re-signs, Orange = UDFAs, 

 

OFFENSE - 43

QB Andrew Luck, Matt Hasselbeck, Chandler Harnish

HB Trent Richardson, Vick Ballard, Chris Rainey, Tashard Choice, Dan Herron, Jerick McKinnon, Silas Redd

FB Stanley Havili, Gator Hoskins

WR Reggie Wayne, T.Y. Hilton, Da' Rick Rogers, LaVon Brazill, Griff Whalen, Jordan Matthews, Austin Franklin, Trey Burton, Quintin Payton

TE Dwayne Allen, Coby Fleener, Jack Doyle, Weslye Saunders, Martell Webb, Clay Burton

LT Anthony Castonzo, Xavier Nixon, Matt Patchan

LG Donald Thomas, Andrew Norwell, Zach Allen

C Evan Dietrich-Smith, Khaled Holmes, James Stone, Thomas Austin

RG Hugh Thornton, John Jerry, Lance Louis

RT Gosder Cherilus, Michael Schofield, Justin Anderson

 

DEFENSE - 44

DE Cory Redding, Linval Joseph, Jeris Pendleton, Lawrence Virgil

NT Josh Chapman, Cam Thomas, Mister Cobble

DT Ricky Jean Francois, Montori Hughes, Deandre Coleman, Bruce Gaston

SLB Eric Walden, Carl Bradford, Tyler Starr, Alan Baxter, Andy Studebaker

WILB Jerrell Freeman, Avery Williamson, Kelvin Sheppard, Caleb Lavey

MILB Donald Butler, Kavell Conner, Josh McNary, Mario Harvey

RLB Robert Mathis, Bjeorn Werner, Daniel Adongo, Cam Johnson, Lawrence Sidbury, Aaron Morgan,

CB Vontae Davis, Eric Wright, Cassius Vaughn, Bennett Jackson, Walt Aikens

CB Greg Toler, Darius Butler, Josh Gordy, Travis Carrie, Aaron Colvin

FS LaRon Landry, Delano Howell, Sergio Brown

SS Antoine Bethea, Alden Darby, Christian Bryant

 

SPECIAL TEAMS - 3

K Chandler Catanzaro

P Pat McAfee

LS Matt Overton

 

Looking for feedback. Let me know what you all think.

 

Your credibility is fully intact IMO, for what that is worth. chuckle

No Samson, Mikey and there is a missing Link. Go Colts!

[gacker65]

Great job Superman.

 

Now onward.  My thoughts on V. Davis is known here, so I will not digress.

I do not see Connor coming back.  I hope Vaughn does not come back.

 

Like your Choice of Eric Wright in FA.  Not sure about Joseph as he plays in a 4-3.

 

As far as the Draft, I do not see us drafting a WR (IMO we give are young WRs another year).  Would prefer ILB ( Smallwood as you point out I believe).

Do not see us taking an OLB that high.  Like your choice of Coleman.  Will need to look-up your O-line choice and Darby at Safety.  Would like Sean Parker, Safety as well.

 

Like a lot of your choice in UDFA, especially Aaron Colvin.  Would like to add to your list, Jordan Zumwait ILB, 6'4", 235, UCLA and D.J. Coles WR, 6' 3" 235 Virginia Tech.

 

Keep up the good work

[ztboiler]

Projected 2014 cap is $126.3m + 2013 cap rollover of $1.16m = $127.46m total cap

Colts current 2014 cap obligations are $92.93m = $34.53m cap space

Release Satele, $4m cap savings = $38.53m cap space

Adding $35.3m to the top 51 cap

New cap number for 2014 of $124.23m, leaving $3.23m cap space remaining (should gain about $4m back after final cuts)

 

I know you have been through this forward and backwards including a revision for double counting Satele's savings, but I also think you haven't added back in the cap credit for the player that rolls off the 51.  With 17 new signings that count more than the lowest 17 currently on the 51, then we'll get roughly 400-500K credit per player that was already included in the original cap # - only the new money counts against us.  You may have already accounted for this elsewhere, but that is roughly $8M more cap space than you project.  Of course, that varies by the number of free agents signed above minimum salary.

[Superman]

I know you have been through this forward and backwards including a revision for double counting Satele's savings, but I also think you haven't added back in the cap credit for the player that rolls off the 51.  With 17 new signings that count more than the lowest 17 currently on the 51, then we'll get roughly 400-500K credit per player that was already included in the original cap # - only the new money counts against us.  You may have already accounted for this elsewhere, but that is roughly $8M more cap space than you project.  Of course, that varies by the number of free agents signed above minimum salary.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. You just take the top 51 cap hits and add them together. Balancing the credits and the differences is only tricky when you're trying to figure out what the 53 man cap hit is going to be.

 

I don't know if you've ever used overthecap.com, but it calculates the top 51 for you. The only additions I had to make to that number were for the players that aren't included on their site for whatever reason. So I think the number ought to be okay for now.

[Superman]

Great job Superman.

 

Now onward.  My thoughts on V. Davis is known here, so I will not digress.

I do not see Connor coming back.  I hope Vaughn does not come back.

 

Like your Choice of Eric Wright in FA.  Not sure about Joseph as he plays in a 4-3.

 

As far as the Draft, I do not see us drafting a WR (IMO we give are young WRs another year).  Would prefer ILB ( Smallwood as you point out I believe).

Do not see us taking an OLB that high.  Like your choice of Coleman.  Will need to look-up your O-line choice and Darby at Safety.  Would like Sean Parker, Safety as well.

 

Like a lot of your choice in UDFA, especially Aaron Colvin.  Would like to add to your list, Jordan Zumwait ILB, 6'4", 235, UCLA and D.J. Coles WR, 6' 3" 235 Virginia Tech.

 

Keep up the good work

 

Good thoughts on Zumwait and Coles. I'll look at Sean Parker also.

 

I really like Smallwood, but if I'm signing Butler, it allows me to pass on him. I'll be doing another mock in a couple weeks, and Smallwood might be a part of it. I'm not sure yet.

 

Linval Joseph does play in a 4-3, but he can play 3/5 tech in our front. No doubt about it. However, Gavin brings up his conditioning, and it's a good point. I'm reconsidering whether he's the right guy or not, especially if the thinking is that he'll be starting at some point. 

 

I don't know off the top of my head what you think about Davis. I'm guessing you don't want him?? If so, yeah, we disagree, but that's fine. I just think he has upside, and at his best, can be an elite corner. I'd rather not move on from a guy with that kind of potential, not unless he wants top five money.

 

Conner might walk by choice, because he might have a better chance to start somewhere else. Vaughn is decent depth, at dimeback at best. I think he should move to safety.

 

And at receiver, I'm fine with giving the young guys time. But I don't think Brazill or Whalen are long term contributors that you don't look to improve on. Rogers has a ton of talent and upside, but he has a long way to go still. He dropped two passes against the Pats. No one can be sure that Reggie will come back at full strength, and then he's a free agent in 2015. I think it's time to do something about our receivers, and after this season, I'd rather have too many than too few. Not to mention, I think Matthews is a stud and would love to have him. After the Combine, he'll probably be firmly out of our reach, and I might overhaul my draft approach, but not because I don't think we should draft a receiver that high.

[ztboiler]

I'm not sure what you mean. You just take the top 51 cap hits and add them together. Balancing the credits and the differences is only tricky when you're trying to figure out what the 53 man cap hit is going to be.

 

I don't know if you've ever used overthecap.com, but it calculates the top 51 for you. The only additions I had to make to that number were for the players that aren't included on their site for whatever reason. So I think the number ought to be okay for now.

 

Ah, I see.  I forgot - you did mention overthecap.com in your original post.  I use Excel and figure it on the increment, so I have to add back the value of the contract replaced....but that would be completely irrelevant when using whole numbers like you have....my bad.   

 

Carry on.

[Superman]

Ah, I see.  I forgot - you did mention overthecap.com in your original post.  I use Excel and figure it on the increment, so I have to add back the value of the contract replaced....but that would be completely irrelevant when using whole numbers like you have....my bad.   

 

Carry on.

 

Using Excel isn't a bad idea. I'm just a little less motivated than you in that regard, when great sites like overthecap.com and spotrac.com do it for you. The advantage to keeping your own spreadsheet is that you know it's up to date and no players are missing. I had to cross-reference those two sites with Colts.com to make sure they were accurate.

 

But overthecap.com shows you both figures, the projected top 51 number and the total number.

[Dark Superman]

Release Satele, $4m cap savings = $38.53m cap space

This is all I needed to see..

[Dark Superman]

The moment you've all been waiting for... ;)

 

I'm doing a full 90-man mock, with lower level signings and undrafted free agents, the whole nine. (Keep in mind that only the top 51 contracts count against the cap prior to final cut day.) The contracts were structured with the help of overthecap.com, using information from there and spotrac.com.

 

Projected 2014 cap is $126.3m + 2013 cap rollover of $1.16m = $127.46m total cap

Colts current 2014 cap obligations are $92.93m = $34.53m cap space

Release Satele, $4m cap savings = $38.53m cap space

Adding $35.3m to the top 51 cap

New cap number for 2014 of $124.23m, leaving $3.23m cap space remaining (should gain about $4m back after final cuts)

 

Re-sign (total top 51 cap added = $17.87m):

Davis; four years, $30m, $17.5m guaranteed, total Year 1 cash of $11m, 2014 cap hit of $6.5m

McAfee; five years, $13.25m, total Year 1 cash of $5m, 2014 cap hit of $1.55m

Bethea; two years, $7m, total cash in Year 1 of $4.25m, 2014 cap hit of $3m

Reitz; one year, $1.33m (RFA)

Gordy; one year, $1.33m (RFA)

Sergio Brown; one year, $1.15m

Conner; one year, $.88m

Vaughn; one year, $.83m

Sidbury; one year, $.73m

Hickman; one year, $.57m (ERFA)

Cam Johnson; one year, $.495m (ERFA)

FA signing (total top 51 cap added = $16.13m):

Donald Butler, ILB, Chargers; five years, $30m, $13.5m guaranteed, total Year 1 cash of $10m, 2014 cap hit of $4m (starting MILB, great run defender, would be a great complement to Freeman)

Evan Deitrich-Smith, C, Packers; four years, $20m, $10.75m guaranteeed, total Year 1 cash of $7.25m, 2014 cap hit of $3.25m (fixes the problem at center, lets Holmes remain a backup)

Linval Joseph, DT, Giants; three years, $12m, $4.5m guaranteed, total Year 1 cash of $4.5m, 2014 cap hit of $2.5m (can rotate with Redding at DT, eventually taking over the majority of the starts)

Cam Thomas, NT, Chargers; two years, $6m, $3.125m guaranteed, total Year 1 cash of $3m, 2014 cap hit of $2.375m (was benched at the end of the year, but was a steady run stopper, can back Chapman up)

Eric Wright, CB, Niners; one year, $2.5m (veteran corner, can start or play nickel)

John Jerry, OG, Dolphins; one year, $1.5m (depth at guard, can work as a starter if Thornton struggles at RG)

 

Draft (total top 51 cap added = $1.3m):

2/58: Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt (2014 cap hit of $.7m)

3/90: Carl Bradford, OLB, ASU (2014 cap hit of $.6m) http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-prospect-focus-Carl-Bradford.html  http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carl-bradford-1.html  (pass rusher with athleticism, smallish but instinctive and makes plays)

5/154: Deandre Coleman, DT, Cal (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89537&draftyear=2014&genpos=DT http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/deandre-coleman-1.html (big, athletic, versatile, gets into the backfield, should be a better version of Fili Moala)

6/186: Michael Schofield, OT, Michigan (right tackle) (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89770&draftyear=2014&genpos=OT (right tackle who is working some at guard at the Senior Bowl, has good lateral quickness and doesn't get beat by pass rushers, not great push but usually locks his man down)

7/209: Alden Darby, S, ASU (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=106615&draftyear=2014&genpos=SS http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/alden-darby-1.html (he flies around and makes plays, tackles well, can cover)

 

UDFAs (no top 51 cap added):

Walt Aikens, CB, Liberty (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=91246&draftyear=2014&genpos=CB http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=181588 (great size and athleticism, transferred from Illinois)

Clay Burton, TE, Florida (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=119748&draftyear=2015&genpos=te (Blocking tight end)

Trey Burton, WR, Florida (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=105861&draftyear=2014&genpos=WR http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/trey-burton-1.html (tweener receiver with great size, slot / H-back guy, can block, run and catch)

Travis Carrie, CB, Ohio (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profilexnews.php?pyid=103124&draftyear=2014&genpos=CB (good size, makes plays on the ball, can return punts)

Chandler Catanzaro, K, Clemson (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=92190&draftyear=2014&genpos=K http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/chandler-catanzaro-1.html (good, consistent leg)

Mister Cobble, NT, Kentucky (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=92309&draftyear=2014&genpos=DT reference (talk about a nose tackle, good feet, great size, run stopper)

Aaron Colvin, CB, Oklahoma (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=106335&draftyear=2014&genpos=CB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/aaron-colvin-1.html (another DB with speed, he gets ball carriers down, just tore his ACL and would likely sit the year out)

Austin Franklin, WR, New Mexico State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.optimumscouting.com/draft/articles/2014-nfl-draft-meet-adam-muema-and-austin-franklin-surprise-declarees-with-draftable-talent.html http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/austin-franklin-1.html (quick and fluid receiver, needs to work on hands and physicality, missed time this year because he was academically ineligible)

Bruce Gaston, DT, Purdue (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=107652&draftyear=2014&genpos=DT http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bruce-gaston-1.html (five-tech end, good hands and movement, not great stamina, can get after the passer)

Gator Hoskins, FB/H-Back, Marshall (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=108663&draftyear=2014&genpos=FB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/gator-hoskins-1.html (big guy, good hands, big receiving threat)

Bennett Jackson, CB, Notre Dame (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=108888&draftyear=2014&genpos=CB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bennett-jackson-1.html (tackles well, returned kicks as a freshman, probably more of a zone guy)

Caleb Lavey, ILB, Oklahoma State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=109658&draftyear=2014&genpos=ILB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/caleb-lavey-1.html (smart player who gets to the ball and finishes tackles, decent in coverage, special teams caliber player)

Jerick McKinnon, RB, Georgia Southern (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=110361&draftyear=2014&genpos=RB http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=198709 http://draftbreakdown.com/players/jerick-mckinnon/ (big play ball carrier, can run past defenses easily)

Andrew Norwell, OG, Ohio State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=110917&draftyear=2014&genpos=OG (big guard, limited in space but anchors well, does good in close quarters)

Matt Patchan, OT, Boston College (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83949&draftyear=2014&genpos=OT (athletic with good size, has dealt with a bunch of injuries and just transferred to BC from Florida, long shot but could have the goods to play in the pros)

Quintin Payton, WR, NC State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90148&draftyear=2014&genpos=WR http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=181812

Silas Redd, RB, USC (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=111584&draftyear=2014&genpos=RB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/silas-redd-1.html (physical downhill runner, good power and balance, has some injury issues)

Tyler Starr, OLB, South Dakota (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=113316&draftyear=2014&genpos=OLB http://www.goyotes.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/tyler_starr_801624.html (pass rusher, fumble forcer, gets to the ball and causes trouble)

James Stone, C, TN (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=112697&draftyear=2014&genpos=C (good lateral agility and awareness, good lower body strength, needs to play with better leverage)

Lawrence Virgil, DT, Valdosta State (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=113341&draftyear=2014&genpos=DT (3/5-tech end, disruptive, long player)

Avery Williamson, ILB, Kentucky (2014 cap hit of $.5m) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=113889&draftyear=2014&genpos=ILB http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/avery-williamson-1.html (tackle machine, good leader and hard worker, limited athleticism)

 

Blue = draft picks, Red = free agent acquisitions, Green = re-signs, Orange = UDFAs, 

 

OFFENSE - 43

QB Andrew Luck, Matt Hasselbeck, Chandler Harnish

HB Trent Richardson, Vick Ballard, Chris Rainey, Tashard Choice, Dan Herron, Jerick McKinnon, Silas Redd

FB Stanley Havili, Gator Hoskins

WR Reggie Wayne, T.Y. Hilton, Da' Rick Rogers, LaVon Brazill, Griff Whalen, Jordan Matthews, Austin Franklin, Trey Burton, Quintin Payton

TE Dwayne Allen, Coby Fleener, Jack Doyle, Weslye Saunders, Martell Webb, Clay Burton

LT Anthony Castonzo, Xavier Nixon, Matt Patchan

LG Donald Thomas, Andrew Norwell, Zach Allen

C Evan Dietrich-Smith, Khaled Holmes, James Stone, Thomas Austin

RG Hugh Thornton, John Jerry, Lance Louis

RT Gosder Cherilus, Michael Schofield, Justin Anderson

 

DEFENSE - 44

DE Cory Redding, Linval Joseph, Jeris Pendleton, Lawrence Virgil

NT Josh Chapman, Cam Thomas, Mister Cobble

DT Ricky Jean Francois, Montori Hughes, Deandre Coleman, Bruce Gaston

SLB Eric Walden, Carl Bradford, Tyler Starr, Alan Baxter, Andy Studebaker

WILB Jerrell Freeman, Avery Williamson, Kelvin Sheppard, Caleb Lavey

MILB Donald Butler, Kavell Conner, Josh McNary, Mario Harvey

RLB Robert Mathis, Bjeorn Werner, Daniel Adongo, Cam Johnson, Lawrence Sidbury, Aaron Morgan,

CB Vontae Davis, Eric Wright, Cassius Vaughn, Bennett Jackson, Walt Aikens

CB Greg Toler, Darius Butler, Josh Gordy, Travis Carrie, Aaron Colvin

FS LaRon Landry, Delano Howell, Sergio Brown

SS Antoine Bethea, Alden Darby, Christian Bryant

 

SPECIAL TEAMS - 3

K Chandler Catanzaro

P Pat McAfee

LS Matt Overton

 

Looking for feedback. Let me know what you all think.

Glad to see someone who's confident in Donald Thomas and Hugh Thornton as the starters. I think if we plug in a quality center our line will improve drastically.

 

[gacker65]

Good thoughts on Zumwait and Coles. I'll look at Sean Parker also.

 

I really like Smallwood, but if I'm signing Butler, it allows me to pass on him. I'll be doing another mock in a couple weeks, and Smallwood might be a part of it. I'm not sure yet.

 

Linval Joseph does play in a 4-3, but he can play 3/5 tech in our front. No doubt about it. However, Gavin brings up his conditioning, and it's a good point. I'm reconsidering whether he's the right guy or not, especially if the thinking is that he'll be starting at some point. 

 

I don't know off the top of my head what you think about Davis. I'm guessing you don't want him?? If so, yeah, we disagree, but that's fine. I just think he has upside, and at his best, can be an elite corner. I'd rather not move on from a guy with that kind of potential, not unless he wants top five money.

 

Conner might walk by choice, because he might have a better chance to start somewhere else. Vaughn is decent depth, at dimeback at best. I think he should move to safety.

 

And at receiver, I'm fine with giving the young guys time. But I don't think Brazill or Whalen are long term contributors that you don't look to improve on. Rogers has a ton of talent and upside, but he has a long way to go still. He dropped two passes against the Pats. No one can be sure that Reggie will come back at full strength, and then he's a free agent in 2015. I think it's time to do something about our receivers, and after this season, I'd rather have too many than too few. Not to mention, I think Matthews is a stud and would love to have him. After the Combine, he'll probably be firmly out of our reach, and I might overhaul my draft approach, but not because I don't think we should draft a receiver that high.

I think, I would still draft Smallwood.  Would be nice to have 3 good ILBs.

 

My thought is that Davis is an average CB and we are going to way over pay for him.  I had suggested a 1year at around 6 mil with incentives for another mil to mil and a half.

 

You maybe right about Connor.

 

I am willing to give our young WRs another year to show whether they can or not do the job.  If they can't, next off season, I will lead the pack tp draft a WR in the 1st or 2nd rounds. It is funny that now I am calling for patience when before last draft I wanted a WR drafted high.  I had said by the start of the season, that if Reggie went down we would be in trouble and I was proved wrong , especially by Rogers and Whalen.

[NewColtsFan]

 

 

I am willing to give our young WRs another year to show whether they can or not do the job.  If they can't, next off season, I will lead the pack tp draft a WR in the 1st or 2nd rounds. It is funny that now I am calling for patience when before last draft I wanted a WR drafted high.  I had said by the start of the season, that if Reggie went down we would be in trouble and I was proved wrong , especially by Rogers and Whalen.

 

Even funnier still,  from my perspective,  you were proven right,  not wrong.

 

Part of the reason our offense sputtered so much after Reggie went down is we simply didn't have a receiver that opposing D-Coordinators lost sleep over.

 

Hilton eventually grew into it.   But for every great game he had,  he also had just as many games were he disappeared.  Where a good defense was able to mostly neutralize him.

 

Rogers and Whalen both show promise.    But at this point, neither scares any defense.

We need weapons.....  we need play makers, difference makers.    The more, the better.

 

Just another way to look at things....

[ztboiler]

Using Excel isn't a bad idea. I'm just a little less motivated than you in that regard, when great sites like overthecap.com and spotrac.com do it for you. The advantage to keeping your own spreadsheet is that you know it's up to date and no players are missing. I had to cross-reference those two sites with Colts.com to make sure they were accurate.

 

But overthecap.com shows you both figures, the projected top 51 number and the total number.

I do like to manipulate my own version with Excel, but I'm lazier than you give me credit for, because I start with the assumption that those sites are accurate in the original 51, then add the new contracts I'm tinkering with and make an adjustment for the likely value of the contracts that come off the top 51.  Much less precise than the way you are doing it - but I figure that precision is a figment of our imagination since we never have 100% of what the contracts really are.

[esmort]

I think, I would still draft Smallwood.  Would be nice to have 3 good ILBs.

 

My thought is that Davis is an average CB and we are going to way over pay for him.  I had suggested a 1year at around 6 mil with incentives for another mil to mil and a half.

 

You maybe right about Connor.

 

I am willing to give our young WRs another year to show whether they can or not do the job.  If they can't, next off season, I will lead the pack tp draft a WR in the 1st or 2nd rounds. It is funny that now I am calling for patience when before last draft I wanted a WR drafted high.  I had said by the start of the season, that if Reggie went down we would be in trouble and I was proved wrong , especially by Rogers and Whalen.

 

I think Davis is way above average with elite potential; we don't even get him to sit down at the table and negotiate with that offer ... he will get plenty of offers significantly better than that.

[gacker65]

I think Davis is way above average with elite potential; we don't even get him to sit down at the table and negotiate with that offer ... he will get plenty of offers significantly better than that.

I agree, Davis will probably get 7.5 to 8 mil per year, but as I have been watching football since 1969, I've got to see great CBs and Davis is no where near being great let alone good.  Check his stats for the season then come back and tell me that.  Check Vaughn's stats as well and see if he deserves that kind of money.

[esmort]

I agree, Davis will probably get 7.5 to 8 mil per year, but as I have been watching football since 1969, I've got to see great CBs and Davis is no where near being great let alone good.  Check his stats for the season then come back and tell me that.  Check Vaughn's stats as well and see if he deserves that kind of money.

 

I think he is definitely good ... although not top a 5 CB his performance puts him more in the 10-15 range with the arrow pointed up IMO.  I would definitely like to see him be more consistent, but some of that I blame on some of the players around him, as well as the fact that I think many of his issues is when they would go into some sort of zone coverage. His strong suit is man coverage, he is still young and learning ... especially zone concepts.  I believe he has the potential to be in the top 5 in a couple of years.

[Superman]

I agree, Davis will probably get 7.5 to 8 mil per year, but as I have been watching football since 1969, I've got to see great CBs and Davis is no where near being great let alone good.  Check his stats for the season then come back and tell me that.  Check Vaughn's stats as well and see if he deserves that kind of money.

 

Your comparison misses the mark, but that's another story. I think what it comes down to is that Davis does have immense potential, and has already shown it with his coverage ability. I didn't include the entire contract structure, but I think it would be best to set any contract up in a way that protects the team and rewards Davis fairly. 

 

I'd rather keep him. I'm not opposed to finding a more affordable alternative, but I don't think one is available, especially not who can play at the highs that Davis has at times reached.

[Gavin]

Yeah ya let Davis walk and well we might as well not put our current Secondary out on the field next year because thats what it will look like and I dont care what kind of pass rush we had if thats the case, Blaine Gabbert might be able to put up an air show against that, Davis should be top priority as far as resigning goes

[gacker65]

I think he is definitely good ... although not top a 5 CB his performance puts him more in the 10-15 range with the arrow pointed up IMO.  I would definitely like to see him be more consistent, but some of that I blame on some of the players around him, as well as the fact that I think many of his issues is when they would go into some sort of zone coverage. His strong suit is man coverage, he is still young and learning ... especially zone concepts.  I believe he has the potential to be in the top 5 in a couple of years.

I'm not sure how to answer you.  You talk like Davis is a Rookie rather than a Veteran, who just finished his 5th season in the league.

 

I agree with you about Davis' consistency and that the secondary did not help, but instead of Davis stepping-up his play, IMO, he played down to those around him.

 

IMO, after 5 seasons in the NFL, Davis should have played in basically both types of Defensives.

 

After 5 years in the League and Davis is still playing like this, IMO, his potential arrow is leveling.

[Mameluc]

Loved the FA!

 

I Love the donald butler signing. I know ILB is not sexy but i much rather use money right now on a ILB.

 

Also loved the Livan JOseph signing.  The only thing i probably would have signed a medium WR like baldwin or sanders and drafted a corner ealier because of toler injuries...but this is your version Superman and i would be happy if we end up like this.

[Coltscrazy]

I love the mock Superman.  Bradford will be gone before our 3rd. He is one of my favorites.  Something that bothers me is no help for the D-line.  Is Chapman the answer at NT?  What do you guys think of Francois?  Who replaces Redding in a few years?  I'd look at Daquon Jones out of Penn State in the 3rd.  I like Beau Allen and Mister Cobble too.  My two favorite ends in this draft are Ben Gardner and Brent Urban.  They're projected as 4th rounders so I guess we'll miss them.  Caleb Lavey is one of my sleepers, he might be gone in the 5th.  I see you address the DL in your FA section.  This would definately be a place for investment.  I cringe at the thought of John Jerry. I think Thomas and Thornton would be much better than someone like Jerry.  I did not know we had that much cap space.  A center would be great, but I doubt we can afford a top3 center. 

2.  Carl Bradford    -  others I like Gabe Jackson(he'll be gone) Jason Verrett

3.  Chris Borland  -  others I like Jared Abbrederis, Ed Reynolds

5.  Spencer Long

6.  Ricardo Allen

7.  Mister Cobble

Mathis Borland Freeman Bradford        Now that would rock at LB   Bring Werner off the bench until he replaces Mathis.  I don't see any DL worth a 2 or a 3, but I'd definately make our first two picks defense. 

[Superman]

I love the mock Superman.  Bradford will be gone before our 3rd. He is one of my favorites.  Something that bothers me is no help for the D-line.  Is Chapman the answer at NT?  What do you guys think of Francois?  Who replaces Redding in a few years?  I'd look at Daquon Jones out of Penn State in the 3rd.  I like Beau Allen and Mister Cobble too.  My two favorite ends in this draft are Ben Gardner and Brent Urban.  They're projected as 4th rounders so I guess we'll miss them.  Caleb Lavey is one of my sleepers, he might be gone in the 5th.  I see you address the DL in your FA section.  This would definately be a place for investment.  I cringe at the thought of John Jerry. I think Thomas and Thornton would be much better than someone like Jerry.  I did not know we had that much cap space.  A center would be great, but I doubt we can afford a top3 center. 

2.  Carl Bradford    -  others I like Gabe Jackson(he'll be gone) Jason Verrett

3.  Chris Borland  -  others I like Jared Abbrederis, Ed Reynolds

5.  Spencer Long

6.  Ricardo Allen

7.  Mister Cobble

Mathis Borland Freeman Bradford        Now that would rock at LB   Bring Werner off the bench until he replaces Mathis.  I don't see any DL worth a 2 or a 3, but I'd definately make our first two picks defense. 

 

I signed Linval Joseph at DT, and Cam Thomas at NT. Between them, plus Chapman and Hughes, there's plenty of guys who can play nose. Plus a bunch of UDFAs that I really like (some might get drafted, so I'll be updating this in a few weeks as we get more information). I also drafted Deandre Coleman in the 5th. 

 

Bradford is one of my favorites as well. I might reconfigure my draft approach in my next mock, especially if Bradford continues moving up like he has in recent weeks. Van Noy is a favorite as well.

 

I don't like Borland. He's a player, I just don't think he's a fit for our defense. MLB in a 4-3, I'd try him on the strongside but I'm worried about his ability to get off blocks. I might be being close-minded, but that's just how I feel.  (Another player I really like is DT Aaron Donald, but he's not a good fit for our system either.)

 

I'm gonna look at some of the other guys you mentioned.

[Superman]

Just noticed Shamar Stephen from UCONN. I like him as a 2-gap DT. He's strong and consistent against the run, hot and cold as a pass rusher, but he can push and has a few moves.

[Gavin]

Just noticed Shamar Stephen from UCONN. I like him as a 2-gap DT. He's strong and consistent against the run, hot and cold as a pass rusher, but he can push and has a few moves.

Caraun Reid from Princeton looks impressive as a 1 gapper, Quick get off, sheds blocks well using hands, Looks like he played some 1 tech in a 34 alignment as well but small at 270lbs, demaded double teams in college

[Superman]

Caraun Reid from Princeton looks impressive as a 1 gapper, Quick get off, sheds blocks well using hands, Looks like he played some 1 tech in a 34 alignment as well but small at 270lbs, demaded double teams in college

 

I love Reid. He's not 270, I've seen that written in a few places as well, but he weighed in at the Senior Bowl at 301. http://www.optimumscouting.com/draft/articles/2014-senior-bowl-official-weigh-in-results.html He's on the South roster (not sure why Princeton is "South," but whatever).

 

I think he's a 1-gapper, but he can handle two gaps in certain formations. Passing situation, one on one with a center, he's going to win. He'll probably be a 4th rounder or so.

[esmort]

I'm not sure how to answer you.  You talk like Davis is a Rookie rather than a Veteran, who just finished his 5th season in the league.

 

I agree with you about Davis' consistency and that the secondary did not help, but instead of Davis stepping-up his play, IMO, he played down to those around him.

 

IMO, after 5 seasons in the NFL, Davis should have played in basically both types of Defensives.

 

After 5 years in the League and Davis is still playing like this, IMO, his potential arrow is leveling.

 

He's not a rookie, but this is only his second season after coming from a team that had an environment that did not appear conducive for his growth and development.

 

Even if he has played in both defenses doesn't mean he is equally comfortable or experienced in both.

 

He put up his best season in 2013 and is hovering around top 10 talent, if he only gets slightly better and "his arrow totally levels out" than he will be a top 5-10 CB ... I'll take that any day of the week.

[gacker65]

He's not a rookie, but this is only his second season after coming from a team that had an environment that did not appear conducive for his growth and development.

 

Even if he has played in both defenses doesn't mean he is equally comfortable or experienced in both.

 

He put up his best season in 2013 and is hovering around top 10 talent, if he only gets slightly better and "his arrow totally levels out" than he will be a top 5-10 CB ... I'll take that any day of the week.

Where are you getting this info or is this you opinion?  PFF has him between 16-18 as of yesterday.  Are you basing this on the fact that QBs hardly threw his way.  I am still looking for the QB completion percentage against him for this year.

 

As far as Dolphins, did he not have a better pass rush in front of him then verses now?  If you look at his stats, his best season was his first or second.

[gacker65]

Your comparison misses the mark, but that's another story. I think what it comes down to is that Davis does have immense potential, and has already shown it with his coverage ability. I didn't include the entire contract structure, but I think it would be best to set any contract up in a way that protects the team and rewards Davis fairly. 

 

I'd rather keep him. I'm not opposed to finding a more affordable alternative, but I don't think one is available, especially not who can play at the highs that Davis has at times reached.

I agree with about protecting the team with his contract, but are you paying for what he has done in his 5 year career or for the potential that he flashes 1-2 games each season.  If it is for how he has played in the last 5 years, we will be overpaying.  If it is for the potential he flashes, then lower base pay and add performance incentives.

 

Reality is, that we will keep him and overpay him. I, like you hopes the team leaves themselves a way out if he does not work.

[Gavin]

I love Reid. He's not 270, I've seen that written in a few places as well, but he weighed in at the Senior Bowl at 301. http://www.optimumscouting.com/draft/articles/2014-senior-bowl-official-weigh-in-results.html He's on the South roster (not sure why Princeton is "South," but whatever).

 

I think he's a 1-gapper, but he can handle two gaps in certain formations. Passing situation, one on one with a center, he's going to win. He'll probably be a 4th rounder or so.

When I think of a NT I want onet not only has the strength to hold up against the run but can shed and bring down the ball carries from time to time up the middle not just a NT thats going to try to command double teams...which as you know I dont believe is realistic on every play, At some poin that NT has to shed and tackle up the middle, I think Reid is one of those guys that can do that along with Nix, Ellis, Coleman and Zach Kerr (Who I dont hear anyone talking about )

[Superman]

I agree with about protecting the team with his contract, but are you paying for what he has done in his 5 year career or for the potential that he flashes 1-2 games each season.  If it is for how he has played in the last 5 years, we will be overpaying.  If it is for the potential he flashes, then lower base pay and add performance incentives.

 

Reality is, that we will keep him and overpay him. I, like you hopes the team leaves themselves a way out if he does not work.

 

Truth is, you're paying for both. Someone is going to offer him a big deal. I think $7.5m/year is a reasonable deal for a player with the potential to be a top flight corner. And I wish I had saved the contract details, because I do think bonuses and incentives should be a part of the structure, but only to an extent. 

 

But really, I think we're at an impasse. I think more highly of Davis than you do right now, and I think his potential is more valuable than you do, particularly to our team. 

[Superman]

When I think of a NT I want onet not only has the strength to hold up against the run but can shed and bring down the ball carries from time to time up the middle not just a NT thats going to try to command double teams...which as you know I dont believe is realistic on every play, At some poin that NT has to shed and tackle up the middle, I think Reid is one of those guys that can do that along with Nix, Ellis, Coleman and Zach Kerr (Who I dont hear anyone talking about )

 

Yeah, I want linemen who can get penetration up the middle as well. But I don't see Reid as a NT. Not that he couldn't be, but it wouldn't be ideal. The nose tackle gets attacked with double teams quite frequently, and has to hold his ground (something Franklin wasn't able to do consistently). If you try to gap with your nose tackle, you make the double team a little bit easier for the offensive line, because you're lining up between two blockers, instead of directly over one blocker. The effect that has on the rest of the defensive line is crucial. It's something we do at times, but against the run, we mostly ask the NT to handle both A gaps. 

 

If we drafted Reid, I would think we'd play him at DT, and gap him on the strongside between the tackle and the guard. Theoretically, on a run play, this forces the tackle to engage the DT (Reid, in this case), the tight end to engage the Sam backer, and the guard (and probably the center) to engage the NT. In that case, Reid can beat the tackle, but he would have to be mindful of his gap, the B gap in that case. That leaves our two ILBs to clean up the ball carrier. And against the pass, Reid would be shooting the gap from the DT position anyways.

 

That's how I see it in my head. We'd be changing our defensive concepts dramatically if we played Reid at NT and asked him to shoot gaps. There's nothing wrong with that way of playing, but it's not what we do for the most part.

[Gavin]

Yeah, I want linemen who can get penetration up the middle as well. But I don't see Reid as a NT. Not that he couldn't be, but it wouldn't be ideal. The nose tackle gets attacked with double teams quite frequently, and has to hold his ground (something Franklin wasn't able to do consistently). If you try to gap with your nose tackle, you make the double team a little bit easier for the offensive line, because you're lining up between two blockers, instead of directly over one blocker. The effect that has on the rest of the defensive line is crucial. It's something we do at times, but against the run, we mostly ask the NT to handle both A gaps. 

 

If we drafted Reid, I would think we'd play him at DT, and gap him on the strongside between the tackle and the guard. Theoretically, on a run play, this forces the tackle to engage the DT (Reid, in this case), the tight end to engage the Sam backer, and the guard (and probably the center) to engage the NT. In that case, Reid can beat the tackle, but he would have to be mindful of his gap, the B gap in that case. That leaves our two ILBs to clean up the ball carrier. And against the pass, Reid would be shooting the gap from the DT position anyways.

 

That's how I see it in my head. We'd be changing our defensive concepts dramatically if we played Reid at NT and asked him to shoot gaps. There's nothing wrong with that way of playing, but it's not what we do for the most part.

Personally I wish we would stick to having our NT (whoever will share time going forward) play the 0 Tech, Thats why I was disappointed when we let Mookie go, I thought he did that fairly well, Struggled in the 1 Tech but was solid shedding blocks and giving chase some, I do wonder how our NT's are being taught in terms of shedding blocks or just holding there ground, From the looks of it they are mainly being taught to hold there ground and not worry about shedding, Maybe Im wrong about that, Just my take on it

[Superman]

Personally I wish we would stick to having our NT (whoever will share time going forward) play the 0 Tech, Thats why I was disappointed when we let Mookie go, I thought he did that fairly well, Struggled in the 1 Tech but was solid shedding blocks and giving chase some, I do wonder how our NT's are being taught in terms of shedding blocks or just holding there ground, From the looks of it they are mainly being taught to hold there ground and not worry about shedding, Maybe Im wrong about that, Just my take on it

 

0 tech lines up over the center and controls both A gaps (2-gapping). If he's any good, he's going to get double teamed. It's slightly harder to double team him from the 0 as opposed to the 1, where he's shooting a gap (1-gapping), but it's still going to happen. 

 

I think the line mostly 2-gaps, with some 1-gapping. It's a more conservative approach that's technically supposed to draw more blockers to the defensive linemen, leaving the backers with less blockers to deal with. That's what the 3-4 is designed to do, to occupy five blockers with three defenders, by controlling the gaps with those three defenders. And the best way to do that is (according to the core principles of the 3-4) is to have each lineman control two gaps at a time, by lining up directly over a blocker and controlling the gaps to either side of the blocker. 

 

No team plays it that way 100% of the time anymore, but that's why a lot of the time our linemen are pushing straight back or holding their spot, rather than trying to shed the block. They want to create a wall and force the action to the sideline, for the most part. 

[Gavin]

0 tech lines up over the center and controls both A gaps (2-gapping). If he's any good, he's going to get double teamed. It's slightly harder to double team him from the 0 as opposed to the 1, where he's shooting a gap (1-gapping), but it's still going to happen. 

 

I think the line mostly 2-gaps, with some 1-gapping. It's a more conservative approach that's technically supposed to draw more blockers to the defensive linemen, leaving the backers with less blockers to deal with. That's what the 3-4 is designed to do, to occupy five blockers with three defenders, by controlling the gaps with those three defenders. And the best way to do that is (according to the core principles of the 3-4) is to have each lineman control two gaps at a time, by lining up directly over a blocker and controlling the gaps to either side of the blocker. 

 

No team plays it that way 100% of the time anymore, but that's why a lot of the time our linemen are pushing straight back or holding their spot, rather than trying to shed the block. They want to create a wall and force the action to the sideline, for the most part. 

Right...I get all that......34 defense 101 but what I am saying is....or meant to say is if going with the idea of what the 34 defense is supposed to do which is get that running back going sideways in a sense towards your linebackers or not straight ahead gaining positive yards then why not have the NT and DE's shed there blocks along with your interior linebackers coming in to bring down the ball carrier, In theory have 5 defenders (3 Down linemen and both ILB's swarming at the ball carrier, Hard to explain, I have a mental picture in my head...In other words if a rb is in a defensive ends area where he can make a play then why not have him shed the block and make the play instead of hoping your NT can draw double team after double team

[Superman]

Right...I get all that......34 defense 101 but what I am saying is....or meant to say is if going with the idea of what the 34 defense is supposed to do which is get that running back going sideways in a sense towards your linebackers or not straight ahead gaining positive yards then why not have the NT and DE's shed there blocks along with your interior linebackers coming in to bring down the ball carrier, In theory have 5 defenders (3 Down linemen and both ILB's swarming at the ball carrier, Hard to explain, I have a mental picture in my head...In other words if a rb is in a defensive ends area where he can make a play then why not have him shed the block and make the play instead of hoping your NT can draw double team after double team

 

Because that's a more aggressive approach, and more aggressive goes hand in hand with more risky. It's easier to poke holes in your defensive front, and it takes fewer blockers to do so, leaving the linebackers with more traffic to navigate.

 

The DE can read the play and make the play in the situation you described. The question is whether he can shed the block or not. It really doesn't have anything to do with the NT drawing a double team. Technically, anyone can draw a double team if they command one, and that makes it easier for the rest of the defensive front.

 

To me, our front is supposed to work the way it did against the Pats. We just need the backers and safeties to tackle better when the play is there to be made. And I know a lot of people like stunts and gap play, but that's just what we did on the back breaking run. RJF tried to stunt or gap (not sure which off the top of my head, but he wasn't playing straight up), and abandoned the lane that Blount eventually came through, then Landry missed the tackle. 

[Jason_]

 

 

I think the line mostly 2-gaps, with some 1-gapping.  

 

That's what I got from the article I've re-posted a couple of times.  NO PROMOTIONAL POSTING ON THE SITE2013-articles/june/explaining-the-colts-3-4-defensive-line.html

 

From what I got from that, the defensive front 2 gaps on the strong side but 1 gaps on the weak side.  So Chapman (0-tech NT), Redding (5-tech DE) and Walden play 2 gap principles while RJF (3-tech DT) and Mathis play slightly modified 1 gap principles.  If I'm understanding correctly that would mean Walden would be responsible for the Strong Side TE, Redding the RT and RG, Chapman the C and LG leaving RJF one on one with the LT, forcing the offense to use another TE, RB or FB on Mathis.  

 

Now obviously those aren't the exact matchups we get every time, but they do get that quite a bit.  I remember seeing Mathis several times being blocked by a back or TE.  And if the offense decides to slide protection to the Mathis side then either Redding or Chapman are going to be left one on one which they should beat pretty much every time.  The Pats left Chapman one on one on, I believe, the 2nd play of the game and he almost swallowed Brady.

 

Superman, I posted that link in another thread and you said you disagreed with part of what it said.  I meant to ask, did you disagree with what the article said or the principles that the article pointed out?  In other words, did you think the article was incorrect, or did you think it was correct but you disagreed with some of the described defensive philosophy?

[Dustin]

Where are you getting this info or is this you opinion?  PFF has him between 16-18 as of yesterday.  Are you basing this on the fact that QBs hardly threw his way.  I am still looking for the QB completion percentage against him for this year.

 

As far as Dolphins, did he not have a better pass rush in front of him then verses now?  If you look at his stats, his best season was his first or second.

 

PFF has him #3 overall.

[Jason_]

Personally I wish we would stick to having our NT (whoever will share time going forward) play the 0 Tech, Thats why I was disappointed when we let Mookie go, I thought he did that fairly well, Struggled in the 1 Tech but was solid shedding blocks and giving chase some, I do wonder how our NT's are being taught in terms of shedding blocks or just holding there ground, From the looks of it they are mainly being taught to hold there ground and not worry about shedding, Maybe Im wrong about that, Just my take on it

 

Superman already pointed out but from the sounds of it, you're swapping the responsibilities of a 0 tech and 1 tech.  I thought Mookie did fairly well at 0 tech but was more suited for 1, 3 or 5 tech.  

 

Also wanted to point out in a bit of irony, Mookie now finds himself once again on a 4-3 team that's going to transition to a 3-4 team.