Peyton Manning's legacy now and if he wins the Super Bowl [Merge]

[amfootball]

It has about as much to do with it as 2006 does. But that's not fair to you, because then it requires you to apply the same nonsensical standard to Tom Brady.

Now you will accuse me of bringing Brady into this when you just did. I have no issue saying the Pats run game helped them win their championships because it did along with their D and Adam and Brady. The run game was also was the major reason the team beat the Colts this year. But for some reason Manning fans like this thread suggests in its title want to give him all the credit when his TEAM wins and SB41 is the perfect example. Manning did not win in a monsoon (an all too common exaggeration when it comes to him) and they did not win from his arm either. They won with their run game and Adam too. And at the end of the day that cannot be disputed.

[Fx Stryker]

That seems kind of selfish. I get what you're saying, and why, but like it's been said many times, this has worked out pretty well for Manning. 

 

It has, but I have no doubt in my mind Manning thought he could have accomplished things here too. Maybe not to the record setting season he had.

 

But it's all moot anyway. I'm just glad he gets to play still.

[Coltsince4]

I would rather Manning finish his career as a Colt than him winning the next 15 Super Bowls...

Me two!! Think about this? Why don't we all pull for Manning too win the next 3 or 4 superbowls are 15 like you say and he can retire a Bronco??? OK.. That sounds good!!! NOttttttttttttt............. I guess i'm going to hear about this but its your choice and its all good notttttttttttt. I want him a Colt!!!!!!!!!!!

[Superman]

It has, but I have no doubt in my mind Manning thinks he could have accomplished things here too. Maybe not to the record setting season he had.

 

But it's all moot anyway. I'm just glad he gets to play still.

 

Two years ago, if Manning was asked to choose between staying in Indy to try to win again, or going somewhere else where the odds might be more in his favor, I'm sure he would have chosen to stay in Indy. And it's possible that he could have won here, but it would have been much more difficult. Record season aside, the Broncos haven't spent the last two seasons rebuilding a 2-14 team with a new GM, a new coaching staff, and about 75% roster turnover.

 

I'm glad he gets to play still, also. And as a Colts fan, I would have preferred that he stayed in Indy under new management with a new coaching staff. I think some things could have been figured out to increase our odds. But it's worked out really well for Manning. Him finishing as a Colt is, to me, just symbolic. Much more tangible is the success he's had the past two years in Denver, and whatever else might be on the horizon. JMO

 

By the way, wasn't pointing the finger or calling you out. Like I said, I get it. I just think it's better for Manning in Denver, and that's more important than what we as fans wanted.

[Coltsince4]

 this has worked out pretty well for Manning. 

And I just don't get why more people just don't relies this just would rather get nasty about it?? Not all but a lot. But then again everybody's got a right to their opinion and i can respect that??  

[amfootball]

I would rather Manning finish his career as a Colt than him winning the next 15 Super Bowls...

I hear you on this. It is amazing how much these players become a part of our lives. I would never want to see Brady in another uniform and am happy that Kraft got him to sign that ridiculous extension but I know he could still move on if he wants to keep playing but the Pats feel like they have a young prospect they want to bring along. Just tough. I hope you do enjoy the game Sunday watching him play for a title.

[Superman]

Now you will accuse me of bringing Brady into this when you just did. I have no issue saying the Pats run game helped them win their championships because it did along with their D and Adam and Brady. The run game was also was the major reason the team beat the Colts this year. But for some reason Manning fans like this thread suggests in its title want to give him all the credit when his TEAM wins and SB41 is the perfect example. Manning did not win in a monsoon (an all too common exaggeration when it comes to him) and they did not win from his arm either. They won with their run game and Adam too. And at the end of the day that cannot be disputed.

 

I'm not accusing you of bringing Brady into this at all. I brought Brady into it because you lose all perspective when talking about Manning. In a derisive way, you say Manning relied on his running game to win in inclement weather. I'm simply pointing out that all teams -- including the Brady-led Pats -- ride their run game to victory, especially in bad weather. The Pats did it two weeks ago against the Colts. They did it against the Colts in 2004, when Corey Dillon allowed them to keep the ball away from Manning in the second half, in the snow.

 

I don't think the OP is trying to give Manning all the credit. The OP made a simple point, then jumped to a conclusion. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion, but the point is rock solid. Monsoon aside, Manning is currently the only QB to win a SB in any kind of precipitation. That's undeniable. (You can point to 50 year old championship games, but we all know that a) those weren't SBs, and b) the game was a lot different back then.) And if it snows next week and the Broncos win, that will be TWO Super Bowls in precipitation, and this for a QB who presumably can't win in bad weather.

 

Does that mean Manning is now the King of the Elements? Not at all. I don't agree with that assertion. But it is somewhat ironic.

 

Lastly, I've resisted arguing with you about the details of that rainy SB, because it's mostly immaterial. But if you keep trying to undermine his performance, it shows that you either don't know what you're talking about, or you have an agenda. After Reggie Wayne got behind their secondary, the Bears decided to play a deep Tampa 2 for practically the rest of the game. They kept their safeties 15+ yards back every down (sometimes 20 yards back, which was pointed out throughout that entire game), and their best defender, Urlacher, was dropping into the deep middle at the snap over and over again. The Colts checked to run plays all game long because a) the Bears were giving it to them, and b) it was working. That doesn't change that Manning, after his early pick, helped his team get control of the game, completed a high percentage of passes against a really good defense, and got out of there with a win. Yes, the running game came through big time, but stop trying to paint a picture of Manning as a casual bystander.

[braveheartcolt]

They both had very good games but you are right Rhodes had the monster game.

It wasn't actually a 'monster' game. It was just a really ugly creature game. Go look it up. 

[Coltsince4]

Hey gang??? What's the deal with the weather?? What I remember is that it wasn't really that bad. A little rain??? It wasn't like you couldn't see in front of your face are like a snow storm... Are am I wrong about that??

[amfootball]

I'm not accusing you of bringing Brady into this at all. I brought Brady into it because you lose all perspective when talking about Manning. In a derisive way, you say Manning relied on his running game to win in inclement weather. I'm simply pointing out that all teams -- including the Brady-led Pats -- ride their run game to victory, especially in bad weather. The Pats did it two weeks ago against the Colts. They did it against the Colts in 2004, when Corey Dillon allowed them to keep the ball away from Manning in the second half, in the snow.

 

I don't think the OP is trying to give Manning all the credit. The OP made a simple point, then jumped to a conclusion. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion, but the point is rock solid. Monsoon aside, Manning is currently the only QB to win a SB in any kind of precipitation. That's undeniable. (You can point to 50 year old championship games, but we all know that a) those weren't SBs, and b) the game was a lot different back then.) And if it snows next week and the Broncos win, that will be TWO Super Bowls in precipitation, and this for a QB who presumably can't win in bad weather.

 

Does that mean Manning is now the King of the Elements? Not at all. I don't agree with that assertion. But it is somewhat ironic.

 

Lastly, I've resisted arguing with you about the details of that rainy SB, because it's mostly immaterial. But if you keep trying to undermine his performance, it shows that you either don't know what you're talking about, or you have an agenda. After Reggie Wayne got behind their secondary, the Bears decided to play a deep Tampa 2 for practically the rest of the game. They kept their safeties 15+ yards back every down (sometimes 20 yards back, which was pointed out throughout that entire game), and their best defender, Urlacher, was dropping into the deep middle at the snap over and over again. The Colts checked to run plays all game long because a) the Bears were giving it to them, and b) it was working. That doesn't change that Manning, after his early pick, helped his team get control of the game, completed a high percentage of passes against a really good defense, and got out of there with a win. Yes, the running game came through big time, but stop trying to paint a picture of Manning as a casual bystander.

Not sure all that was necessarily. From the start I pointed out that the monsoon was the issue I had with this thread and then the blizzard statement given there is only a 30 percent chance of snow and it would be flurries at that. That's it. From there this spiraled out of control mostly because some folks get sensitive when you point out that Manning did actually get some help in his victories in particular in the 2006 post-season when his D, run game and Adam all stepped up big. I never said Manning was along for the ride but his 3 Tds and 7 picks that post-season say that his performance was sub-standard and his team helped get him to the title along with his timely passing and ability to take what the defense was giving him which was the run in the SB given the weather conditions.

[jvan1973]

Not sure all that was necessarily. From the start I pointed out that the monsoon was the issue I had with this thread and then the blizzard statement given there is only a 30 percent chance of snow and it would be flurries at that. That's it. From there this spiraled out of control mostly because some folks get sensitive when you point out that Manning did actually get some help in his victories in particular in the 2006 post-season when his D, run game and Adam all stepped up big. I never said Manning was along for the ride but his 3 Tds and 7 picks that post-season say that his performance was sub-standard and his team helped get him to the title along with his timely passing and ability to take what the defense was giving him which was the run in the SB given the weather conditions.

it had very little to do with the weather and more to do with Urlacher playing seven yards off the LOS the entire game. Any qb looking at a six man box is going to audible, especially Peyton.

[amfootball]

it had very little to do with the weather and more to do with Urlacher playing seven yards off the LOS the entire game. Any qb looking at a six man box is going to audible, especially Peyton.

I don't disagree but a wet ball is hard to throw and catch. And Rhodes and Addai were having pretty good post-seasons for him. Manning rode the horses to get the title. That is what a good QB is supposed to do and it does not reflect poorly on him like some want to believe because he did not throw the ball all over the place to win.

[Superman]

Not sure all that was necessarily. From the start I pointed out that the monsoon was the issue I had with this thread and then the blizzard statement given there is only a 30 percent chance of snow and it would be flurries at that. That's it. From there this spiraled out of control mostly because some folks get sensitive when you point out that Manning did actually get some help in his victories in particular in the 2006 post-season when his D, run game and Adam all stepped up big. I never said Manning was along for the rid but his 3 Tds and 7 picks that post-season say that his performance was sub-standard and his team helped get him to the title along with his timely passing and ability to take what the defense was giving him which was the run in the SB given the weather conditions.

 

It's not sensitivity when pointing out that Manning got help. What's happening is you're trying to undermine his play, particularly in SB, because the run game was effective. Had nothing to do with AV, or the defense in the previous playoff games, or 3 TDs / 7 INTs. 

 

It spiraled out of control very early on, when you insisted that other SBs had been played in bad weather, and then refused to admit that you were wrong. Monsoon or not, SB41 is the only SB to be played in any kind of precipitation.

 

I'm done, though. Carry on. I said a long time ago that your stubbornness was making you look bad, and I stand by that. Spin it how you want, but you have sole ownership of this one.

[amfootball]

It's not sensitivity when pointing out that Manning got help. What's happening is you're trying to undermine his play, particularly in SB, because the run game was effective. Had nothing to do with AV, or the defense in the previous playoff games, or 3 TDs / 7 INTs. 

 

It spiraled out of control very early on, when you insisted that other SBs had been played in bad weather, and then refused to admit that you were wrong. Monsoon or not, SB41 is the only SB to be played in any kind of precipitation.

 

I'm done, though. Carry on. I said a long time ago that your stubbornness was making you look bad, and I stand by that. Spin it how you want, but you have sole ownership of this one.

I have never undermined Manning's play once. I have stated he got help that post-season which he did and that he relied on the run in the SB which was the right play given the weather conditions and the fact that the defense was playing the pass.

 

I corrected the statement about the SB and said championship game two pages ago but you refuse to believe that I won't admit it when I did more than 100 posts ago. Not sure what else I can do to appease you. I was wrong to say SB, should have said championship games. Cool now?

 

The OP was not trying to say Manning is the only QB to win in precipitation as if he/she had said that then I would not have commented at all but the words "monsoon" and "blizzard"  caught my eye. That is what I have been saying the whole time. I was not undermining Manning but pointing out the inaccuracies of the title of the thread. He won in precipitation for sure, not a monsoon and it won't be a blizzard next Sunday night either.

[amfootball]

FYI to all - the league already said that if a big snow storm does arise which is not forecasted right now, they will move the game. So there is no way the game would be played in heavy snow much less blizzard conditions.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10344025/super-bowl-early-forecast-game-denver-broncos-seattle-seahawks

[Buck Showalter]

Haven't noticed any other threads as of yet.

Ha, really there are no less than four locked threads in the NFL section, most were about Brady, so bored Pats fans would defend him etc...

then they got locked...

I was joking around because a Pats fan came into this thread, keeps arguing about the weather, so I assume it will get locked...

[jvan1973]

Ha, really there are no less than four locked threads in the NFL section, most were about Brady, so bored Pats fans would defend him etc...

then they got locked...

I was joking around because a Pats fan came into this thread, keeps arguing about the weather, so I assume it will get locked...

She has that effect on a lot of threads

[GoPats]

Forget about the monsoon. I would have been more worried about those BEARS!!!

 

 

[amfootball]

Ha, really there are no less than four locked threads in the NFL section, most were about Brady, so bored Pats fans would defend him etc...

then they got locked...

I was joking around because a Pats fan came into this thread, keeps arguing about the weather, so I assume it will get locked...

lol. Most threads around here get locked from what I have observed because the thread topic lent itself to silliness - the ones on Brady not going to the pro bowl or watching the SB are prime examples.

 

And I just read through the mea culpa about Why Pats fans are here and my name was mentioned several times and I did not make one post. But you can contribute its locking to me if you want.

 

This one is just false its premise and needed to be called out as such.

[amfootball]

She has that effect on a lot of threads

As do you.

[jvan1973]

As do you.

not really, mainly the topics you post in get locked. I just call you on your non sense

[amfootball]

not really, mainly the topics you post in get locked. I just call you on your non sense

Sure it is all me and none of you. You are just "responding" and never post non-sense of your own ....

[jvan1973]

Sure it is all me and none of you. You are just "responding" and never post non-sense of your own ....

Step one is admitting you have a problem. Good for you

[amfootball]

Step one is admitting you have a problem. Good for you

Sure, I learned from you. ;)

[Coltsince4]

Sure it is all me and none of you. You are just "responding" and never post non-sense of your own ....

Don't feel to bad AM I actually kinda like you!! Oh C@%$ did I actually say that???????????          :heh:  :flirty:

It's OK, everything is going to be alright!! I think???  I'm definitely full of nonsense...

[amfootball]

Don't feel to bad AM I actually kinda like you!! Oh C@%$ did I actually say that???????????          :heh:  :flirty:

It's OK, everything is going to be alright!! I think???  

I like you too. And thanks for the sexy :flirty: . She is my favorite with those lashes and all. ;)

[Nadine]

we are having a 'do over' on this thread.

Several posts have been removed and the thread has been retitled to prevent semantic arguments

Enjoy

[Nadine]

If he wins this game, I hope he does this again

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10108612/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-tells-cold-critics-shove-it

 

Go for it Peyton!

[Gramz]

If he wins this game, I hope he does this again

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10108612/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-tells-cold-critics-shove-it

 

Go for it Peyton!

  Nadine.  He and I have both been a little out of character lately       I love this  ;)

[Coltsince4]

If he wins this game, I hope he does this again

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10108612/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-tells-cold-critics-shove-it

 

Go for it Peyton!

I think the video after that one is funny!! After the SB we see who needs PH...??? 

[Coltsince4]

If he wins this game, I hope he does this again

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10108612/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-tells-cold-critics-shove-it

 

Go for it Peyton!

Did he actually say that? I didn't hear it and if he did does that make him like that Sherman guy just wondering I think it's all right to get lose once in awhile no matter who you are...

[Nadine]

And for personal reasons I hope I never hear the words 'Greatest regular season quarterback' ever again

[Le Neon]

Maybe so, but "more" holds true. If Manning threw the ball 38 times in the rain, he was affected more than Starr or Meredith, who only threw the ball 24 and 25 times in the cold. If it was ambiguous, that's fine, but I hope we've clarified it.

I agree with your for the most part on how Manning's reputation is analyzed. Coming up with arbitrary factors like whether it was 40 degrees or more, or whether it was in a dome, etc., etc., are all kind of missing the point. I mentioned earlier that it's not like Manning has played a whole bunch of playoff games in cold weather. The only times that really have any bearing on the discussion were the two in New England, and last year against the Ravens. And it's not surprising that he didn't light up the defense in those situations, but if someone wants to be critical on that basis alone, that's fine. I personally don't think it matters, because a) Manning has won games in the cold, the snow, the rain, the wind, and b) winning or losing isn't really an accurate determination of whether or how much the QB was affected by the elements.

And the tremendous covariate that goes along with the "below 40 degree" narrative is that he never ever played a home game in those conditions. It just didn't get that chilly in the Hoosier Dome, or later at LOS.

A qb like Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger gets a few home games every year in those elements. And i bet all of their home playoff games were played in those conditions. Gotta weigh these things by home field advantage to derive any meaningful interpretation.

[PotatoHead]

Even if Peyton was to go 30 of 30 for  8 TD's and 600 yds. against the top D in the league they'll still find an angle to tear him down,  Maybe they'll say that Tom Brady would have thrown for 20 tds and 1000 yds. against the seahawks and then graced everyone with a huge Temper Tantrum!!!

[Coltsince4]

Even if Peyton was to go 30 of 30 for  8 TD's and 600 yds. against the top D in the league they'll still find an angle to tear him down,  Maybe they'll say that Tom Brady would have thrown for 20 tds and 1000 yds. against the seahawks and then graced everyone with a huge Temper Tantrum!!!

You are probably right. But what really matters in the end of course is who gets the W and who gets the L.... 

[MAC]

Did he actually say that? I didn't hear it and if he did does that make him like that Sherman guy just wondering I think it's all right to get lose once in awhile no matter who you are...

Yes he said it.

 

Peyton: Quietly endured a cacophony of "experts" and fans espousing on his perceived failings for years, long frustrating his fans with political correct answers when standing up for himself would have been welcome. He finally told "them" (no individuals specified) off - in response to a specific interview question - using an amusingly archaic slang expression that wouldn't be out of place coming from a 1950's housewife. It was appropriate, it was welcome, it was funny.

 

Sherman: Invented a victim sensibility out of whole cloth to motivate himself, and then screamed about his "victory" over same in a startling, rude, and barely intelligible manner in response to a generic and unrelated question. He later expanded his verbal assault to include belittling comments about a specific defeated player. I like Sherman and think he's a bright guy, but his entire performance was inappropriate, rude, and classless.

 

In other words, NO, it doesn't "make him like that Sherman guy", although I agree that it's nice when players actually say something honest occasionally. Many interviews are dull and pointless.

 

 

And I just don't get why more people just don't relies this just would rather get nasty about it?? Not all but a lot. But then again everybody's got a right to their opinion and i can respect that??  

Everyone does "get it", they just don't have such a chip on their shoulder about it that they feel the need to make the occasional somewhat unpleasant comment of their own as a precautionary remedy. Two wrongs don't make a right, and if I can listen to your opinions without suffering permanent damage to my psyche, than perhaps you'll make it through Peyton winning the Super Bowl unscathed.

[Coltsince4]

Yes he said it.

 

Peyton: Quietly endured a cacophony of "experts" and fans espousing on his perceived failings for years, long frustrating his fans with political correct answers when standing up for himself would have been welcome. He finally told "them" (no individuals specified) off - in response to a specific interview question - using an amusingly archaic slang expression that wouldn't be out of place coming from a 1950's housewife. It was appropriate, it was welcome, it was funny.

 

Sherman: Invented a victim sensibility out of whole cloth to motivate himself, and then screamed about his "victory" over same in a startling, rude, and barely intelligible manner in response to a generic and unrelated question. He later expanded his verbal assault to include belittling comments about a specific defeated player. I like Sherman and think he's a bright guy, but his entire performance was inappropriate, rude, and classless.

 

In other words, NO, it doesn't "make him like that Sherman guy", although I agree that it's nice when players actually say something honest occasionally. Many interviews are dull and pointless.

 

 

Everyone does "get it", they just don't have such a chip on their shoulder about it that they feel the need to make the occasional somewhat unpleasant comment of their own as a precautionary remedy. Two wrongs don't make a right, and if I can listen to your opinions without suffering permanent damage to my psyche, than perhaps you'll make it through Peyton winning the Super Bowl unscathed.

Well actually after reading this The only thing you seem to get is your own writing you don't seem to get what I'm saying (not really) but I guess it really doesn't matter now does it??   And I'm happy we agree on something you wrote but I'll let you figure that out, I know your good at that..

[The Laughing Man]

I'm sure do the nature of their fandom, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who don't think that the outcome of the Superbowl will change Peyton's case for GOAT in any way, but I was hoping to get opinions from people who still think his legacy can change. Right now, I think he's the best ever, but that can change given a poor performance int he big game.

 

Here's my take, given the scenarios that can play out:

 

A.) Peyton plays well, Broncos win: I will consider Manning to be the greatest of all time, no question.

B.) Peyton plays mediocre, Broncos win: Same as A. An average game against Seattle is a great game against essentially any other team in the NFL.

C.) Peyton plays poorly, Broncos win: Here I'm a bit iffy. Peyton has carried that defense many times this season, and he hasn't had a poor game all season. It would be hard to fault him for finally having an off day, but it would be at the most inopportune time. If Peyton has a game where he's clearly making poor decisions and hurting the team, I'd probably slide him back to #2 behind Montana.

 

D.) Peyton plays well, Broncos lose: This is tough, but I'd still have him as the GOAT. For all the records the Broncos set this year, I still think that Seattle may actually be the better team. If Peyton torches that secondary and still winds up on the losing side of things, I can't imagine that I would think it was his fault in any way. If he has a great passing day, the rest of the team has to step it up, period.

E.) Peyton plays mediocre, Broncos lose: Another hard call. As I said before, struggling against Seattle's secondary isn't anything to be ashamed of. That said, if he wants to be the GOAT, he needs this win on his resume for me. He'd be 2nd behind Montana otherwise.

F.) Peyton plays poorly, Broncos lose:  He clearly takes a huge step back. I think it would take another MVP calibur season and strong postseason run to contend for the GOAT spot again.

 

 

Your thoughts?

[The Laughing Man]

What gets lost in all of this is the fact that "bad weather" is an umbrella term, which analysts don't seem to realize. What constitutes bad weather? Rain? Heavy winds? Snow? Those are three entirely different playing situations (which may overlap, granted), and require separate adjustments on the part of the quarterback.

 

Can anyone honestly name me a QB in the league who consistently plays well in all three of those conditions (especially in heavy wind/ downpour scenarios). I can think of QBs who play great in the snow, like my guy, but that's only part of the equation. I seriously am at a loss to think of one. Hence why I think "bad weather QB" is such a stupid term.

[oldunclemark]

I'm sure do the nature of their fandom, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who don't think that the outcome of the Superbowl will change Peyton's case for GOAT in any way, but I was hoping to get opinions from people who still think his legacy can change. Right now, I think he's the best ever, but that can change given a poor performance int he big game.

 

Here's my take, given the scenarios that can play out:

 

A.) Peyton plays well, Broncos win: I will consider Manning to be the greatest of all time, no question.

B.) Peyton plays mediocre, Broncos win: Same as A. An average game against Seattle is a great game against essentially any other team in the NFL.

C.) Peyton plays poorly, Broncos win: Here I'm a bit iffy. Peyton has carried that defense many times this season, and he hasn't had a poor game all season. It would be hard to fault him for finally having an off day, but it would be at the most inopportune time. If Peyton has a game where he's clearly making poor decisions and hurting the team, I'd probably slide him back to #2 behind Montana.

 

D.) Peyton plays well, Broncos lose: This is tough, but I'd still have him as the GOAT. For all the records the Broncos set this year, I still think that Seattle may actually be the better team. If Peyton torches that secondary and still winds up on the losing side of things, I can't imagine that I would think it was his fault in any way. If he has a great passing day, the rest of the team has to step it up, period.

E.) Peyton plays mediocre, Broncos lose: Another hard call. As I said before, struggling against Seattle's secondary isn't anything to be ashamed of. That said, if he wants to be the GOAT, he needs this win on his resume for me. He'd be 2nd behind Montana otherwise.

F.) Peyton plays poorly, Broncos lose:  He clearly takes a huge step back. I think it would take another MVP calibur season and strong postseason run to contend for the GOAT spot again.

 

 

Your thoughts?

 

These conclusions.....assume his career ends Sunday and I don't think it will

 

..But assuming it is...

 

.. there is no real 'Peyton plays well but Broncos lose' scenario'

 

Manning played well last year against Baltimore but when they lost..its was said that his history of poor post-season play continued...

 

He played well in the 2009 Super Bowl but I cant tell you the amount of times I've heard on the NFL Network that he 'threw that game away' 

 

He played well in the 2005 Super Bowl but we've all heard that it 'wasn't that tough to beat Rex Grossman'  using the QB-vs.-QB fantasy logic

 

If Denver wins....Peyton will be hailed but the question will immediately be 'Can he duplicate Elway' and win two in a row late in his career..

 

 

 

Manning cant significantly improve his legacy Sunday and, considering the defense and the conditions.... he can only hurt it slightly