The best DRAFTED Colts players outside Luck are Polian players

[trueblueblood]

Donald Brown, Reggie Wayne, Robert Mathis, Antoine Bethea are probably our best players on O and D outside Luck, and they are all Polian players.

Thoughts???

Hilton, Allen, fleener, freeman, Davis, butler... Need I go on?

[Superman]

Another poster brought this up last week. The thing is, the players that were held over from the previous regime were difference makers. It's not surprising that they'd be among the best on the team. But they were also the best on the team in 2011, and weren't good enough.

 

The roster is drastically different. Definitely Grigson's roster. (Compare the 2012 Chiefs to the 2013 Chiefs for a contrast.)

[Bluboy]

Polian has several draft flop

Yes, he did but I am not sure he ever had a draft as bad as this last one. 

[Colts80]

We've only had 2 years of grigson. all players need time to develop. way too early to even judge drafted players.

[Bluboy]

none of those players are anything special

Garcon is a better receiver than anyone the Colts have outside of Reggie Wayne and perhaps not even him since the injury and his age. 

[CR91]

can you tell me all the "special" players at the bottom of the first round in those years? "special" players at the bottom of the first round are very, very rare.

Ray rice. Lesean McCoy. Alshon Jefferys. Hakeem nicks. Mjd. Want me to keep going or have I made my point

[CR91]

Garcon is a better receiver than anyone the Colts have outside of Reggie Wayne and perhaps not even him since the injury and his age. 

Two words easy drops. Guy can make some great catches, but dropped some of the easiest

[CR91]

We've only had 2 years of grigson. all players need time to develop. way too early to even judge drafted players.

I dont know. This year's draft is kinda a bust. Werner is average so is Thornton. Holmes never plays. Hughes barely plays and the rest were cut

[McGrit]

So, of all the years that Polian was in charge; of all the players that he brought to the team.  Only 4 remain after less than two years?

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, but if you wanted to defend Polian's legacy I think you just did the opposite.

[Valpo2004]

TY Hilton??? He hasn't been super hot as of recent. . . probably because with Reggie being on IR, Hilton get's most of the attention.  

Also others are right Freeman, though a free agent signing is probably the best player on defense.

[Superman]

Yes, he did but I am not sure he ever had a draft as bad as this last one. 

 

Don't make me laugh...

 

First, the 2013 draft wasn't bad. Not only is it too early to judge, but we could reasonably see the top four draftees starting in the trenches next year.

 

Second, the 2007 and 2008 drafts were dreadful. Just plain awful. 

[Bluboy]

Two words easy drops. Guy can make some great catches, but dropped some of the easiest

We are talking now. He is a 1000 yard receiver on a bad team and he just broke Art Monk's team record. Washington got a bargain number one receiver when they signed him. 

[Bluboy]

Don't make me laugh...

 

First, the 2013 draft wasn't bad. Not only is it too early to judge, but we could reasonably see the top four draftees starting in the trenches next year.

 

Second, the 2007 and 2008 drafts were dreadful. Just plain awful. 

 

Right now, this draft is plain awful and the number one pick is a bust. But, I'll watch to see who from that draft starts next year. My guess is that none of them will but I hope you are right. 

[MacDee1975]

I don't recall Chad72 saying anything negative about Brown pre-2013, do you?

 

Wasn't referring to him specifically.

[Superman]

Right now, this draft is plain awful and the number one pick is a bust. But, I'll watch to see who from that draft starts next year. My guess is that none of them will but I hope you are right. 

 

No one is a bust after one year.

 

Of course, that just fits your agenda. 

[Valpo2004]

No one is a bust after one year.

 

Of course, that just fits your agenda. 

 

Besides that, hasn't Werner recorded 1 sack in each of the last 2 games??

 

It might have taken him some time but it seems to me that he's starting to hit his stride as a pass rushing presence.  

[Bluboy]

No one is a bust after one year.

 

Of course, that just fits your agenda. 

 

I don't have an agenda. I think he is or will be a bust using your definition. You should draft a reliable starter in the first round and he isn't that. But, Grigson made sure he can't get that criticism for next year by trading that pick. I also think that was a mistake but I did admire the boldness of it and perhaps that will work out yet. Can a first round pick be a bust after two years? 

[Superman]

Besides that, hasn't Werner recorded 1 sack in each of the last 2 games??

 

It might have taken him some time but it seems to me that he's starting to hit his stride as a pass rushing presence.  

 

I think Werner will be just fine. Might not have been my first round pick, but he's playing well and has upside. Anyone calling him a bust is being a typical impatient fan, or has an angle.

 

Thornton has played a ton this year, and is probably going to compete for a starting job next year as well. Holmes will probably compete to start at center. Hughes might not start, with Redding and RJF still on the roster, but he'll be high in the rotation, based on his play in recent weeks.

 

All told, it's silly to claim that this draft is awful. Not only is it too early, but we added some promising guys. It's not a sexy draft, that's for sure. But that's not important, especially not for a team that has been overmatched in the trenches for the last three years (mostly due to Polian's poor drafting).

[Superman]

I don't have an agenda. 

 

[Bluboy]

 

Doesn't that qualify as "baiting"? I don't have any agenda at all and I could care less what you believe. I am a Colts fan but I like to try and keep both feet on the ground too.

[Valpo2004]

I think Werner will be just fine. Might not have been my first round pick, but he's playing well and has upside. Anyone calling him a bust is being a typical impatient fan, or has an angle.

 

Thornton has played a ton this year, and is probably going to compete for a starting job next year as well. Holmes will probably compete to start at center. Hughes might not start, with Redding and RJF still on the roster, but he'll be high in the rotation, based on his play in recent weeks.

 

All told, it's silly to claim that this draft is awful. Not only is it too early, but we added some promising guys. It's not a sexy draft, that's for sure. But that's not important, especially not for a team that has been overmatched in the trenches for the last three years (mostly due to Polian's poor drafting).

 

I'm not sold on Holmes yet but I hope you are right.  I just have a hard time thinking that with all the injuries we've had at O-line and the fact that Satele sucks, if he hasn't made his way into the rotation at some point I'm not sure he'll be likely to play.

 

Lets not forget that Xavier Nixon came off practice squad and got in the game while Holmes is still riding the bench.

 

Speaking of Nixon, do you think he could make for a viable G/OT backup in the future?  

[Superman]

Doesn't that qualify as "baiting"? I don't have any agenda at all and I could care less what you believe. I am a Colts fan but I like to try and keep both feet on the ground too.

 

If you think a post is against the rules, feel free to report the post and the moderators will review it.

[Superman]

I'm not sold on Holmes yet but I hope you are right.  I just have a hard time thinking that with all the injuries we've had at O-line and the fact that Satele sucks, if he hasn't made his way into the rotation at some point I'm not sure he'll be likely to play.

 

Lets not forget that Xavier Nixon came off practice squad and got in the game while Holmes is still riding the bench.

 

Speaking of Nixon, do you think he could make for a viable G/OT backup in the future?  

 

I'm not sold on Holmes, either; we haven't seen him play at all, even in preseason, because of his injuries. But it's not uncommon for a rookie offensive lineman to sit out an entire year. Especially when he didn't really participate in camp. I assume he's healthy for the offseason program next year and gets a chance to compete for a spot. 

 

As for Nixon, he's absolutely a viable backup. In these last two weeks, he's done exactly what you hope a backup lineman will do when you call his number. He came in the game in a pinch and played reasonably well, and in his start, he played well again, at a different position. He's probably played better than the guys he replaced. No reason he won't be a part of the discussion moving forward.

[Coffeedrinker]

I just felt Brown never fit in the pass friendly confines of Peyton's offense as much as he does in this one, Addai was a more appropriate back for that offense.

I agree with that.  I tried saying that for years.

[husker61]

 when you dont draft a player that goes to the probowl from 2007-2011, you've missed a lot

 

 

if they are playing on another team then they aren't misses. you did forget mcafee and moala. those years 1st round picks were costanzo (starting), brown (starting), hughes (starting on another team), and gonzalez who was always hurt so who knows how good he would have been if healthy.

 

 

 

playing with another team:

hughes

powers

wheeler

tamme

garcon

 

 

none of those players are anything special

 

 

can you tell me all the "special" players at the bottom of the first round in those years? "special" players at the bottom of the first round are very, very rare.

 

 

Ray rice. Lesean McCoy. Alshon Jefferys. Hakeem nicks. Mjd. Want me to keep going or have I made my point

 

read my question again. none of those players apply to my question.

 

ray rice 2nd round

mjd 2nd round

mccoy 2nd round

jeffereys 2nd round and he wasn't drafted in the years you were talking about. we can always use ALL of polians drafts if you would like.

 

lets try again, can you tell me all the "special" players at the bottom of the first round in those years (2007-11)?

[Superman]

read my question again. none of those players apply to my question.

 

ray rice 2nd round

mjd 2nd round

mccoy 2nd round

jeffereys 2nd round and he wasn't drafted in the years you were talking about. we can always use ALL of polians drafts if you would like.

 

lets try again, can you tell me all the "special" players at the bottom of the first round in those years (2007-11)?

 

Why would you limit it to the first round? If the player was available when we picked, he qualifies.

 

This exercise has been done a thousand times, by the way. I don't see how anyone can argue that Polian's drafting didn't fall off and hurt the team in later years.

[CR91]

read my question again. none of those players apply to my question.

 

ray rice 2nd round

mjd 2nd round

mccoy 2nd round

jeffereys 2nd round and he wasn't drafted in the years you were talking about. we can always use ALL of polians drafts if you would like.

 

lets try again, can you tell me all the "special" players at the bottom of the first round in those years (2007-11)?

 

their players we could have taken in the bottom of the first round

[coltsfanatic24]

Dwayne Allen was the best player drafted outside of Luck, he has legit pro bowl talent. He was the best TE in college and fell to the 3rd round only because of a 40 time, otherwise he would have been a late 1st early 2nd round pick.

[husker61]

Why would you limit it to the first round? If the player was available when we picked, he qualifies.

 

This exercise has been done a thousand times, by the way. I don't see how anyone can argue that Polian's drafting didn't fall off and hurt the team in later years.

 

then you could say EVERY gm failed at the bottom of the first round those years, and probably almost every year.

 

people are cherry picking drafts where the colts consistently picked at the bottom. you would be very hard pressed to find a gm that has success drafting the "special" players that low. when he had high picks, he did get special players.

 

he drafted starters, and that is more than can be said about most gm's drafting at that position in the first round.

[basketballsteve]

Not meant to divide but just wanted to shine some light on the fact that there are remnants of a lot of good things that Polian did that still have a lasting impact on our roster.

Why, is Bill going into the ring of fame? Did someone attempt to defame him recently? Comparisons invite people to take sides and it didn't seem there was any element in the post to suggest are we lucky to have had back to back front office management(s) that are having a positive effect on our roster of players.

[PrincetonTiger]

Every team with a new GM has this

Example:

KC is being powered by Pioli's guys

[Superman]

then you could say EVERY gm failed at the bottom of the first round those years, and probably almost every year.

 

people are cherry picking drafts where the colts consistently picked at the bottom. you would be very hard pressed to find a gm that has success drafting the "special" players that low. when he had high picks, he did get special players.

 

he drafted starters, and that is more than can be said about most gm's drafting at that position in the first round.

 

Not really. Other GMs got players that actually helped their team in the first round. Maybe not the player that proved to be the best available, which is why it's not fair to go back and redraft with the benefit of hindsight.

 

However, Polian didn't get starters in the first round. He got players that wound up not helping our team very much, and those picks led to the roster having holes in various spots. From 2007 to 2010, his use of first rounders was bad. Anthony Gonzalez, Tony Ugoh (traded a first for him), Donald Brown and Jerry Hughes were not good picks for our team. The 2007 draft was bad through and through.

 

And what makes these failures worse is that he refused to supplement his drafting with free agency acquisitions that would fill some of the gaps. Instead, he plopped down more money on players that we should have been moving on from, in one way or another.

 

Keep in mind, I'm not a Polian basher. I've defended him plenty. But I don't think there's any question that his drafting and team management left a lot to be desired in later years. Put that on Chris if you want, doesn't really matter. The point is that the drafting wasn't good, and that falls on Bill Polian.

[Superman]

Every team with a new GM has this

Example:

KC is being powered by Pioli's guys

 

Difference is we're NOT being powered by Polian's guys, actually. Yeah, some of them remain, but this roster has been overhauled dramatically, unlike the Chiefs roster.

[husker61]

their players we could have taken in the bottom of the first round

 

and every other gm missed on those players also. why attack bp? his low first round picks weren't as bad as you are making them out to be.

 

i guess every other gm was terrible at the time because they didn't draft brady or montana with their first pick. every year there are players that all gm's miss with a higher pick. are they all bad? why pick on bp. his entire player evaluation record is as good as anyone.

[PrincetonTiger]

Difference is we're NOT being powered by Polian's guys, actually. Yeah, some of them remain, but this roster has been overhauled dramatically, unlike the Chiefs roster.

I agree I was using that as an example

[Balzer40]

I don't agree that the best players on the team(outside of Luck) are Polians draftee's. Having only a few players left from that regime after less than 2 yrs. don't speak real well to Polian either. I'm not really sure what the point of this thread was other than to try and defend what Polian done here and again, I don't know why that was needed. Polian had his time, he started blowing it bigtime over his last few yrs. and IMO blew it in certain area's his entire career here. Grigson has made a couple of mistakes but Polian made his fair share here too and I couldn't wait for the jerk to get canned. 

[Superman]

I agree I was using that as an example

 

I get your post. I just think the Chiefs are completely different from the Colts at this point. Of course, they're only one year in, and the Colts are two years in. But the Colts roster is much more powered by Grigson guys than Polian guys, and I think the Chiefs are powered by Pioli guys more than by Dorsey guys.

 

http://www.profootballrosters.com/2013/07/24/how-assembled-chart-indianapolis/

http://www.profootballrosters.com/2013/07/30/how-assembled-chart-kansas-city/

[hoosierhawk]

 

Not meant to divide but just wanted to shine some light on the fact that there are remnants of a lot of good things that Polian did that still have a lasting impact on our roster.

My good Lord. He was there for 12 or 14 years or something like that. Would you not expect that after only being gone two years that some on his players would still be around? Some guys stay in the league 10 years or more.There were 50 plus guys on the squad when he left. How many of them are still around? I would guess only a few of the elite.

[Old Colt]

Griff, darick, ty, brazil, redding, FREEMAN, butler, vonte, fleener, werner, walden... I'll give you Donald and Mathis obviously but bethea had been less affective this year, and reggie had been hurt since week 8..

Exactly.... and how many years did Polian have and how many has Grigs been here.....  After 2 years I believe Grigs has the advantage vs Polian after 2 years!

[husker61]

Not really. Other GMs got players that actually helped their team in the first round. Maybe not the player that proved to be the best available, which is why it's not fair to go back and redraft with the benefit of hindsight.

 

However, Polian didn't get starters in the first round. He got players that wound up not helping our team very much, and those picks led to the roster having holes in various spots. From 2007 to 2010, his use of first rounders was bad. Anthony Gonzalez, Tony Ugoh (traded a first for him), Donald Brown and Jerry Hughes were not good picks for our team. The 2007 draft was bad through and through.

 

And what makes these failures worse is that he refused to supplement his drafting with free agency acquisitions that would fill some of the gaps. Instead, he plopped down more money on players that we should have been moving on from, in one way or another.

 

Keep in mind, I'm not a Polian basher. I've defended him plenty. But I don't think there's any question that his drafting and team management left a lot to be desired in later years. Put that on Chris if you want, doesn't really matter. The point is that the drafting wasn't good, and that falls on Bill Polian.

 

i don't think you will find a team that drafted at the bottom of the first round and consistently got impact players with those picks. is donald brown helping the team? costanzo? is it bp fault the colts gave up on hughes and he is helping another team? every gm misses in the draft, i just don't think he was as bad as most people think.

 

2009 was a good draft.

 

i have said many times the colts spent too much money signing their players, against what most poster thought was the correct move by the colts.