Solutions In Progress But Complex In Nature

[coltfaninnewyork]

No some of our talent is hurt, there were some bad picks and we don't have the money to get into the FA market that much due to high contracts to key players and we have been drafting in positions like 28 - 31 for how long?

Has not hurt the pats and steelers...how come bill?

[thetigerfox]

No some of our talent is hurt, there were some bad picks and we don't have the money to get into the FA market that much due to high contracts to key players and we have been drafting in positions like 28 - 31 for how long?

so bad picks you say????? nothing done about it in free agency you say, Thank you for finally agreeing with me, Polian needs to go. You just said it yourself. I knew you would come around. Everyone give the guy a hand he has finally seen the light!!!!!

[presto123]

No some of our talent is hurt, there were some bad picks and we don't have the money to get into the FA market that much due to high contracts to key players and we have been drafting in positions like 28 - 31 for how long?

Polian is supposed to be a guru at finding late round picks. He started believing his own hype.

[dn4192]

so bad picks you say????? nothing done about it in free agency you say, Thank you for finally agreeing with me, Polian needs to go. You just said it yourself. I knew you would come around. Everyone give the guy a hand he has finally seen the light!!!!!

Polian doesn't believe in the FA market, never really has. You can disagree with that view, but it's worked pretty darn well for him throughout his time in Indy. And yes some bad picks, are you telling other GM's haven't made bad picks?

[coltfaninnewyork]

Polian doesn't believe in the FA market, never really has. You can disagree with that view, but it's worked pretty darn well for him throughout his time in Indy. And yes some bad picks, are you telling other GM's haven't made bad picks?

It has worked well because of number 18,he is now being exposed.

[dn4192]

It has worked well because of number 18,he is now being exposed.

What a load of crap. To claim that Polian has had only 1 good/great draft pick in his entire time here is laughable. He has put together a franchise that has won, and yes in part due to Peyton, but to think it's only because of Peyton is laughable. Dan Marino was as good a QB as Peyton, how many SB titles did he, how many SB did he get to, how many divisional championships did he have? Lets look at Brett Farve, another QB in the league of talent as Peyton, he had 2 SB appearances with 1 win...but did the Packers do what the Colts have done? The Colts won because of a good team, with the corner stone being Peyton, but they didn't dominate just beacuse of Peyton....

[coltfaninnewyork]

What a load of crap. To claim that Polian has had only 1 good/great draft pick in his entire time here is laughable. He has put together a franchise that has won, and yes in part due to Peyton, but to think it's only because of Peyton is laughable. Dan Marino was as good a QB as Peyton, how many SB titles did he, how many SB did he get to, how many divisional championships did he have? Lets look at Brett Farve, another QB in the league of talent as Peyton, he had 2 SB appearances with 1 win...but did the Packers do what the Colts have done? The Colts won because of a good team, with the corner stone being Peyton, but they didn't dominate just beacuse of Peyton....

Hard to prove your theory because we look like a high school team without peyton.

[coltfily]

With the present system we are using and the depleated talent we have, I doubt if even the great defensive coaches could do much this year. You can't go and change schemes because you don't have the talent and the coach can only do so much, at some point players have to make plays.

I agree we can't totally scrap our "scheme", but something has to be done to light a fire under this team. They showed no fire and we couldn't tackle. That is not scheme that is the fundamentals and our fundamentals are deteriating from week to week and that is coaching. I recognize the Saints are a high powered offense, but we looked totally unprepared for a high powered offense. To borrow from Dennis Greene "they were who we thought they were", and our scheme definitely wasn't suited for that offense. Let's see how our scheme handles a more conservative offense with Tenn.

[dn4192]

I agree we can't totally scrap our "scheme", but something has to be done to light a fire under this team. They showed no fire and we couldn't tackle. That is not scheme that is the fundamentals and our fundamentals are deteriating from week to week and that is coaching. I recognize the Saints are a high powered offense, but we looked totally unprepared for a high powered offense. To borrow from Dennis Greene "they were who we thought they were", and our scheme definitely wasn't suited for that offense. Let's see how our scheme handles a more conservative offense with Tenn.

You can prepare all you want...Talent wins games and right now, on the defensive side of the ball, especially with the S, CB and such we are horrible, and we came up against probably one of the top 3-4th ranked offense in all of football. What gets me are people are shocked by what happen last night, anyone who sees the talent the Saints have, playing at home against a very poor Colts D and an offesne that couldn't eat any clock, how could they not see us getting thrashed?

[coltfaninnewyork]

You can prepare all you want...Talent wins games and right now, on the defensive side of the ball, especially with the S, CB and such we are horrible, and we came up against probably one of the top 3-4th ranked offense in all of football. What gets me are people are shocked by what happen last night, anyone who sees the talent the Saints have, playing at home against a very poor Colts D and an offesne that couldn't eat any clock, how could they not see us getting thrashed?

Then how come vegas made them a 13.5 fave instead of a 50 point fave?

[thetigerfox]

Polian doesn't believe in the FA market, never really has. You can disagree with that view, but it's worked pretty darn well for him throughout his time in Indy. And yes some bad picks, are you telling other GM's haven't made bad picks?

Really, because we used free agency when he first got here to build our oline, but later on the media hyped his picking manning and Wayne in the draft and the guy actually bought into his own hype and quit using free agency. after that the team was built and has been on a decline since. He hasn't had high draft picks so the available talent has been thinner, and has whiffed on a lot of those picks, his defensive picks have missed the mark, so instead of making adjustments ie, free agency we have been on a downward spiral for years. Manning made up for the problems, which never were fixed. A gm job is not just the draft but building and maintaining a team, which includes free agency and trades, tools available to him which he has not used. which has failed to use...

I remember being at the preseason game where Irsay handed him the GM of the year award, to a crowd of boos... But I guess that doesn't tell you anything now does it.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Really, because we used free agency when he first got here to build our oline, but later on the media hyped his picking manning and Wayne in the draft and the guy actually bought into his own hype and quit using free agency. after that the team was built and has been on a decline since. He hasn't had high draft picks so the available talent has been thinner, and has whiffed on a lot of those picks, his defensive picks have missed the mark, so instead of making adjustments ie, free agency we have been on a downward spiral for years. Manning made up for the problems, which never were fixed. A gm job is not just the draft but building and maintaining a team, which includes free agency and trades, tools available to him which he has not used. which has failed to use...

I remember being at the preseason game where Irsay handed him the GM of the year award, to a crowd of boos... But I guess that doesn't tell you anything now does it.

Good point,remember chad bratzke,chad cota,and jeff burris.So dn has selective memory as well.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Is Polian just playing the politician, or does he truly not get it

oops wrong thread.

Edited October 24, 2011 by FanFromtheWasteland

[buccolts]

Ah, the memories.

It doesn't seem all that long ago we were going to be the first team to play in a SB in it's home stadium.

Oh, BTW, anyone heard if last nights game was going to be one of the rewind games this week?

[dn4192]

Really, because we used free agency when he first got here to build our oline, but later on the media hyped his picking manning and Wayne in the draft and the guy actually bought into his own hype and quit using free agency. after that the team was built and has been on a decline since. He hasn't had high draft picks so the available talent has been thinner, and has whiffed on a lot of those picks, his defensive picks have missed the mark, so instead of making adjustments ie, free agency we have been on a downward spiral for years. Manning made up for the problems, which never were fixed. A gm job is not just the draft but building and maintaining a team, which includes free agency and trades, tools available to him which he has not used. which has failed to use...

I remember being at the preseason game where Irsay handed him the GM of the year award, to a crowd of boos... But I guess that doesn't tell you anything now does it.

What the fans think doens't matter, what matters is W/L and that's it and during Polian's tenure here in Indy the Colts have had more Wins then Losses and have dominated their division and done pretty well going to 2 SB. When only 2 other teams in your conference has a better record, that is not to bad.

[BillCowher]

What about Blue?

I have stated that Caldwell is an empty suit. At least we know Blue is not and if they replace Caldwell after next week Blue could do no worse than Caldwell this year.

[Jason_]

They could interview NOW if they wanted to so long as they adhere to the Rooney rule.

Which is why doing it now makes so much sense. Declare the intent, let the guys on the market know the job is open.

What's the harm in changing the system now? We have a 0.000% chance to make the playoffs, we're unlikely to even win this season, and thing's can't get any worse. If we wanna hire a guy like Bill Cowher and tell him to fix our defense, isn't the time he has left this season only going to help him? Everyone flies off the handle and freaks out at the prospect of a mid-season coaching change, but seriously, at this point, what could it hurt? Why wait?

I agree...I'm not saying an entire scheme change is needed but if they're going to do it why not get a head start?

[dn4192]

Good point,remember chad bratzke,chad cota,and jeff burris.So dn has selective memory as well.

given the number of seasons here, and the number of players Polian has brought in, the % of those that were top tier FA is very small.

[thetigerfox]

Ah, the memories.

It doesn't seem all that long ago we were going to be the first team to play in a SB in it's home stadium.

Oh, BTW, anyone heard if last nights game was going to be one of the rewind games this week?

Lol, For the first time in awhile I'm glad I don't get that channel!!!

[dn4192]

I agree...I'm not saying an entire scheme change is needed but if they're going to do it why not get a head start?

How? How do you change things? You have X type of players, and you want them to change to what style of defense at the mid point of the season?

[Jaric]

What a load of crap. To claim that Polian has had only 1 good/great draft pick in his entire time here is laughable. He has put together a franchise that has won, and yes in part due to Peyton, but to think it's only because of Peyton is laughable. Dan Marino was as good a QB as Peyton, how many SB titles did he, how many SB did he get to, how many divisional championships did he have? Lets look at Brett Farve, another QB in the league of talent as Peyton, he had 2 SB appearances with 1 win...but did the Packers do what the Colts have done? The Colts won because of a good team, with the corner stone being Peyton, but they didn't dominate just beacuse of Peyton....

So where are all these wonderful players then? Do they also have hurt necks? Why pray tell are they not showing up now?

[thetigerfox]

What the fans think doens't matter, what matters is W/L and that's it and during Polian's tenure here in Indy the Colts have had more Wins then Losses and have dominated their division and done pretty well going to 2 SB. When only 2 other teams in your conference has a better record, that is not to bad.

Yup, fans don't matter to football.

And they already rewarded the person responsible for those winning years, His names Peyton, you know, the only 4 time MVP of the league.

Edited October 24, 2011 by thetigerfox

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Ah, the memories.

It doesn't seem all that long ago we were going to be the first team to play in a SB in it's home stadium.

Oh, BTW, anyone heard if last nights game was going to be one of the rewind games this week?

Boy that would really be rubbing salt in the wound.

I doubt it. You know it has to be bad when they don't even talk about the ongoing game at half time, nor do they mention it on the post game show.

[dn4192]

So where are all these wonderful players then? Do they also have hurt necks? Why pray tell are they not showing up now?

Freeny, Mathis, Brackett, Sanders, Clark, Wayne, James, Addai, Saturday, Glenn, Rhodes...just to name a quick few...

[dn4192]

Yup, fans don't matter to football.

And they already rewarded the person responsible for those winning years, His names Peyton, you know, the only 4 time MVP of the league.

Fans matter, what they think doesn't. No NFL executive operates his football team off what the fans want, they do what they believe is best. Coaches don't coach to what the fans want. Fans show up, cheer for their team and go home...that is the job of the fan.

[thetigerfox]

Good point,remember chad bratzke,chad cota,and jeff burris.So dn has selective memory as well.

It sounds like he became a recent fan and believed the nonsense the media had put out about Polian. I'm done responding to him, he just keeps putting the same things that is you read them all contradict what he is saying, so whats the point.

[John Waylon]

There's something to be said about arguing with an * here.........

[coltfaninnewyork]

Freeny, Mathis, Brackett, Sanders, Clark, Wayne, James, Addai, Saturday, Glenn, Rhodes...just to name a quick few...

How about ugoh,pitcock,gonzo,hughes,brown,gilbert gardner...oh by the way glenn was bill tobin's choice,

[John Waylon]

It sounds like he became a recent fan and believed the nonsense the media had put out about Polian. I'm done responding to him, he just keeps putting the same things that is you read them all contradict what he is saying, so whats the point.

Exactly. Here is a typical dn4192 post:

"It's not Polian's fault, he built a great team' It's not Caldwell's fault, he's a great coach. It's not the players fault, they're all great. We don't have a lot of talent, and what talent we do have aren't being told to do what they need to do."

Round and round he goes....

[thetigerfox]

There's something to be said about arguing with an * here.........

Point well taken, like a Polian I did not see my error, and kept doing the same thing expecting a different result.

[Jason_]

How? How do you change things? You have X type of players, and you want them to change to what style of defense at the mid point of the season?

If I had even the slightest reason to believe that:

-you are legitimately curious and want to discuss the possibilities

-you have even a decent level of comprehension to read and understand what I have to say without turning around and twisting my words

-you were not asking simply to be argumentative

then I might possibly answer your question and discuss it with you. I don't believe any of these things so my desire to respond to your posts/questions has dwindled down to nothing.

Incidentally though, my problem is not with the Polians...it is with the coaching staff. A lot of people blame Bill for the players who were brought in on defense, but he was bringing in either the specific players or at least the "type" of players that the HC wanted so he did what his HC wanted him to do. Also, as someone else pointed out, Caldwell was Bill's choice, not Chris' so that is yet another reason to consider that JIm's days with us may be numbered.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

How about ugoh,pitcock,gonzo,hughes,brown,gilbert gardner...oh by the way glenn was bill tobin's choice,

Don't for get........do I dare say it........Mike Hart.

[John Waylon]

Don't for get........do I dare say it........Mike Hart.

You're gonna get a death threat from rayted... Just be ready....

[dn4192]

Exactly. Here is a typical dn4192 post:

"It's not Polian's fault, he built a great team' It's not Caldwell's fault, he's a great coach. It's not the players fault, they're all great. We don't have a lot of talent, and what talent we do have aren't being told to do what they need to do."

Round and round he goes....

No what I said is that Polian's overall record allows him to have a bad couple of drafts and the ability to fix the issues. With Caldwell I again defer to Polians ability to judge his ability over Joe Fan whom posts here. The great thing about sport is you have scoreboard, and with Polian his record is unquestionable and out ranks any view any fan has.

[dn4192]

Don't for get........do I dare say it........Mike Hart.

Hart's issue was health, when he was able to go, he was a good power short yardage back, problem was he couldn't stay healthy.

[John Waylon]

It's not Polian's fault, he built a great team' It's not Caldwell's fault, he's a great coach. It's not the players fault, they're all great. We don't have a lot of talent, and what talent we do have aren't being told to do what they need to do.

Fixed it for you.

Round and round and round and round.......

[dn4192]

If I had even the slightest reason to believe that:

-you are legitimately curious and want to discuss the possibilities

-you have even a decent level of comprehension to read and understand what I have to say without turning around and twisting my words

-you were not asking simply to be argumentative

then I might possibly answer your question and discuss it with you. I don't believe any of these things so my desire to respond to your posts/questions has dwindled down to nothing.

Incidentally though, my problem is not with the Polians...it is with the coaching staff. A lot of people blame Bill for the players who were brought in on defense, but he was bringing in either the specific players or at least the "type" of players that the HC wanted so he did what his HC wanted him to do. Also, as someone else pointed out, Caldwell was Bill's choice, not Chris' so that is yet another reason to consider that JIm's days with us may be numbered.

You could be right, Chris Polian may decide at the end of the season that a change is needed, and I am okay with that because again he and his dad have more access to information then we do. They talk to the players and other experts and possible coaching candidates, but won't they won't do is over react or have a knee jerk reaction from last night.

[John Waylon]

Hart's issue was health, when he was able to go, he was a good power short yardage back, problem was he couldn't stay healthy.

Right, so what's your Colts Colored Glasses excuse for Aaron Moorehead? You MUST have one, he's a Polian drafted player, afterall. He had to have been great.

So, a defense of Aaron Moorehead.

123 go!

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Hart's issue was health, when he was able to go, he was a good power short yardage back, problem was he couldn't stay healthy.

when he was able to go. You mean the 12 snaps he took in his NFL career. He was a polian pick and is no longer here so what is your point.

[dn4192]

Right, so what's your Colts Colored Glasses excuse for Aaron Moorehead? You MUST have one, he's a Polian drafted player, afterall. He had to have been great.

So, a defense of Aaron Moorehead.

123 go!

Bad draft pick, I know how can a GM make a bad draft pick....what was Bill thinking....