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"However, given how poorly this season has gone, Grigson deserves, at the very least, a good amount of the blame this season and, at the most, the majority of it.

Things haven't exactly gone as planned for the Colts in 2013.  Yes, the team is currently 8-4 and has essentially locked up the AFC South title"

??
 

 

I stopped reading right there. 

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"However, given how poorly this season has gone, Grigson deserves, at the very least, a good amount of the blame this season and, at the most, the majority of it.

Things haven't exactly gone as planned for the Colts in 2013.  Yes, the team is currently 8-4 and has essentially locked up the AFC South title"

??

 

 

Yeah, that didn't make much sense to me either. We're definitely struggling at the moment, but I wouldn't say the season has gone "poorly" at all.

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"However, given how poorly this season has gone, Grigson deserves, at the very least, a good amount of the blame this season and, at the most, the majority of it.

Things haven't exactly gone as planned for the Colts in 2013.  Yes, the team is currently 8-4 and has essentially locked up the AFC South title"

??

 

 

I stopped reading right there. 

 

 

That's what I liked about it.  How the Colts have done so poorly this year!!!! hahahah.  Talks like the team is 2-10 and going nowhere.  We are 8-4, beat Denver, Seattle, and SF.  We lost 5 offensive starters.  We have first year coordinators on offense and special teams.  Sure, it sucks having no offensive line, but come on!

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He has some decent points, but the bottom line is, we're still 8-4 and the additions via teh draft and trent trade are incapable of being accurately evaluated after only 12 games.  Cherilus was a good addition, Walden wasn't as bad as he made it out to be, Landry has been good when he's been in, though he hasn't consistently been the game changer we had hoped for, Toler has been serviceable but we lost the gamble on his health.

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"However, given how poorly this season has gone, Grigson deserves, at the very least, a good amount of the blame this season and, at the most, the majority of it.

Things haven't exactly gone as planned for the Colts in 2013.  Yes, the team is currently 8-4 and has essentially locked up the AFC South title"

??

 

 

I stopped reading right there. 

 

 

 

Me too. Given how poorly this season has gone.. Are you kidding me? We've beaten Seattle, Denver, & San Fran. Whatever... We haven't started playing poorly since after the Denver game due to key player losses and we are so dinged up it's not even funny.

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"However, given how poorly this season has gone, Grigson deserves, at the very least, a good amount of the blame this season and, at the most, the majority of it.

Things haven't exactly gone as planned for the Colts in 2013.  Yes, the team is currently 8-4 and has essentially locked up the AFC South title"

??

I stopped reading right there. 

 

 

I know....All the preseason prognosticators were saying the Colts would be 8-8 at best, more likely sub-.500.  How is 8-4 underachieving?

 

Early onset of Alzheimer's must be a criteria for BR reporting.

 

 

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"However, given how poorly this season has gone, Grigson deserves, at the very least, a good amount of the blame this season and, at the most, the majority of it.

Things haven't exactly gone as planned for the Colts in 2013.  Yes, the team is currently 8-4 and has essentially locked up the AFC South title"

??

 

 

I stopped reading right there. 

 

I don't think it should be all the GM getting blamed I think some of it should go the coaching staffs way too.

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Regardless of the comment about how "poorly the season has went"  I agree with a majority of what's written. We all thought that drafting players at the very top of every round was relatively easy and that Grigson was going to have to live up to his "Rainman" reputation this year by drafting quality players with picks in the 20-32 range. So far, he's disappointed.

 

He also has filed miserably to address the O-line issue, which for the Colts, has been an issue for over a decade. I would've put that as item #1, 2, 3...... on my list before I looked anywhere else.

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If one can comprehend the header of the article, and have the wisdom to get past the poorly stated, ONE Sentence 2nd paragragh,

it shouldn`t be that hard to see the writer is largely Spot On.

 Grigson is 100% Responsible for the O-Line, and DHB has been a killer. Walden has made some plays lately but was pretty bad early. Still a question whether we want him back IMO, as it shouldn`t be hard to replace his level of productivity.
 

 We can go back and forth on individual moves, including the draft and Richardson.

 Risk, reward, & failure occur in the NFL. Give it 3 full years to see the Roster trajectory.

 We replaced at least 8 starters as I recall and there should have been at least 2 more.

 

 We are still young and dumb in areas, including the QB, with new coaching, new players, and real weakness with depth.

 It is what it is. And so far, we have watched considerably less bad FB against bad Teams than we did last season.

 

 If we get everyone back healthy next season, with a few nice FA tweaks to the roster, draft a few solid hopefulls, we are farther along with the BUILD and once again, All is Possible.

 

I would have liked to have seen Ijalana Warford Shipley Vasquez and Castonzo as our O-Line. It was very doable IMO.

The $$ spent on Thomas and saved between Cherilus could have gone towards a veteran pass rusher. AHHHH says Andrew,and ahhh for the D.

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Makes a few valid points about some players just not working out but overall once again another trashy article by BR....you would think they would want to be known for fair/balanced and informative articles....guess they are just more concerned with being known for something even if its putting out trash articles like they are going out of style

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Regardless of the comment about how "poorly the season has went"  I agree with a majority of what's written. We all thought that drafting players at the very top of every round was relatively easy and that Grigson was going to have to live up to his "Rainman" reputation this year by drafting quality players with picks in the 20-32 range. So far, he's disappointed.

 

He also has filed miserably to address the O-line issue, which for the Colts, has been an issue for over a decade. I would've put that as item #1, 2, 3...... on my list before I looked anywhere else.

 

I can understand being critical of the way the offensive line is playing. I don't understand being critical of Grigson's approach. He signed two starters, and drafted two guys with potential to start in the future. Grigson didn't fail to address the offensive line.

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Made some valid points and some huh points. He states that Vasquez and Levitre are doing so well on other teams, however, he failed to point out that Vasquez had no desire to go anywhere but Denver. Also, many people have pointed out that Levitre has not done all that well in Tn either so...

The statement that made we wonder was near the end about Tom Telesco and his potential on the talent review. Thats a very good question right there. Time will tell on this but really the bad things that stand out this year for me is the desire to keep DHB in the lineup, Satele over Shipley (may have been a coaching call there though) and the trade of the 1st draft pick for a RB not named adrian Peterson. Next season will tell us how impressive his vision is coming together, year 3.

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Made some valid points and some huh points. He states that Vasquez and Levitre are doing so well on other teams, however, he failed to point out that Vasquez had no desire to go anywhere but Denver. Also, many people have pointed out that Levitre has not done all that well in Tn either so...

The statement that made we wonder was near the end about Tom Telesco and his potential on the talent review. Thats a very good question right there. Time will tell on this but really the bad things that stand out this year for me is the desire to keep DHB in the lineup, Satele over Shipley (may have been a coaching call there though) and the trade of the 1st draft pick for a RB not named adrian Peterson. Next season will tell us how impressive his vision is coming together, year 3.

 

Shipley isn't playing all that well. He's a marginal talent. The problem is with Satele, but Shipley wouldn't fix our offensive line.

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He has some decent points, but the bottom line is, we're still 8-4 and the additions via teh draft and trent trade are incapable of being accurately evaluated after only 12 games.  Cherilus was a good addition, Walden wasn't as bad as he made it out to be, Landry has been good when he's been in, though he hasn't consistently been the game changer we had hoped for, Toler has been serviceable but we lost the gamble on his health.

This is true, Draft picks no one knows really about them yet? I think Werner & Thornton will be good players, the rest of them? Maybe Hughes? Maybe

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If one can comprehend the header of the article, and have the wisdom to get past the poorly stated, ONE Sentence 2nd paragragh,

it shouldn`t be that hard to see the writer is largely Spot On.

 Grigson is 100% Responsible for the O-Line, and DHB has been a killer. Walden has made some plays lately but was pretty bad early. Still a question whether we want him back IMO, as it shouldn`t be hard to replace his level of productivity.

 

 We can go back and forth on individual moves, including the draft and Richardson.

 Risk, reward, & failure occur in the NFL. Give it 3 full years to see the Roster trajectory.

 We replaced at least 8 starters as I recall and there should have been at least 2 more.

 

 We are still young and dumb in areas, including the QB, with new coaching, new players, and real weakness with depth.

 It is what it is. And so far, we have watched considerably less bad FB against bad Teams than we did last season.

 

 If we get everyone back healthy next season, with a few nice FA tweaks to the roster, draft a few solid hopefulls, we are farther along with the BUILD and once again, All is Possible.

 

I would have liked to have seen Ijalana Warford Shipley Vasquez and Castonzo as our O-Line. It was very doable IMO.

The $$ spent on Thomas and saved between Cherilus could have gone towards a veteran pass rusher. AHHHH says Andrew,and ahhh for the D.

Thomas was very good till he got hurt, very solid indeed!

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Thomas was very good till he got hurt, very solid indeed!

 

Hard to tell exactly how good he was playing beside guys who were'nt doing there jobs well at all.

I watch gads of line play in slo mo because i luv that part of the game.

 I would be ok to give him a good rating, again, hard to tell about his pulls as Satele & McGlynn were getting blown up as he crossed behind them. Whats New?

 I wonder if he would be a Good Center. The man moves well and has some mongo shoulders on him. I believe he played there some for NE. If so we could go after either a G or C next year in FA, best available for the $$$. Then bring Holmes along as a backup at both positions.

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If one can comprehend the header of the article, and have the wisdom to get past the poorly stated, ONE Sentence 2nd paragragh,

it shouldn`t be that hard to see the writer is largely Spot On.

 Grigson is 100% Responsible for the O-Line, and DHB has been a killer. Walden has made some plays lately but was pretty bad early. Still a question whether we want him back IMO, as it shouldn`t be hard to replace his level of productivity.

 

 We can go back and forth on individual moves, including the draft and Richardson.

 Risk, reward, & failure occur in the NFL. Give it 3 full years to see the Roster trajectory.

 We replaced at least 8 starters as I recall and there should have been at least 2 more.

 

 We are still young and dumb in areas, including the QB, with new coaching, new players, and real weakness with depth.

 It is what it is. And so far, we have watched considerably less bad FB against bad Teams than we did last season.

 

 If we get everyone back healthy next season, with a few nice FA tweaks to the roster, draft a few solid hopefulls, we are farther along with the BUILD and once again, All is Possible.

 

I would have liked to have seen Ijalana Warford Shipley Vasquez and Castonzo as our O-Line. It was very doable IMO.

The $$ spent on Thomas and saved between Cherilus could have gone towards a veteran pass rusher. AHHHH says Andrew,and ahhh for the D.

 

No, the problem is that it's a hit piece. And it's annoying, because it ignores what the job actually entails.

 

If we're going to grade Grigson on the state of the roster, that's fine. But second guessing acquisitions and making comments like 'Vasquez and Levitre are better than the linemen he signed,' or 'Walden and Toler haven't played well' is weak. It's based on specious grounds to begin with, and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

You have to consider that free agency isn't grocery shopping. You can't just go pick your guy up out of the produce aisle. Players have to agree to come play for you. Some aren't interested, some would rather go play in a particular place, some price themselves out of your range.

 

And with the draft, we do this every year. "He's a bust!" after two months of pro play. The people complaining about Grigson trading Jerry Hughes spent three years complaining about Polian drafting him. Can't judge a draft class in December. Complaining about 6th and 7th rounders is petty, at best.

 

Lastly, there's the fan favorites issue. No one likes Satele (with good reason), everyone is convinced Shipley was the better player (more questionable). No one considers that Shipley isn't a great player (he's hardly average, which is saying something about Satele), just irritated that Grigson didn't keep him. Just like all the noise when Grigson traded Rayford, and now Rayford is a free agent. Same thing with Ben Ijalana, who is warming the bench for the Jets.

 

Grigson didn't have a perfect offseason. Plenty of room for criticism. But it's really overboard, among a fan base and blogosphere that will never be satisfied with the head guy in charge of this team, no matter the approach, no matter the outcome. When someone starts an article complaining about the GM of an 8-4 team by talking about how poorly the season has gone, it's very clear that they have no objectivity. (And I haven't even mentioned the injuries.)

 

If we're going to have the Grigson debate, it needs to start off better than this.

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Shipley isn't playing all that well. He's a marginal talent. The problem is with Satele, but Shipley wouldn't fix our offensive line.

I don't what the rvens play nd don't doubt he isn't doing well, however, Satele was playing worse than Shipley was ad he would have at least been a replacement to change up on the oline at center is all I'm pointing out. They seemed to just go all in with Satele and lostthe gamble that he would improve his play without fear of looking over his shoulder. Idk, I don't want it to sound like I felt Shipley wasan all pro player we shipped offbecause he wasn't, only a feeling of modest improvent overa terrible Satele.

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I don't what the rvens play nd don't doubt he isn't doing well, however, Satele was playing worse than Shipley was ad he would have at least been a replacement to change up on the oline at center is all I'm pointing out. They seemed to just go all in with Satele and lostthe gamble that he would improve his play without fear of looking over his shoulder. Idk, I don't want it to sound like I felt Shipley wasan all pro player we shipped offbecause he wasn't, only a feeling of modest improvent overa terrible Satele.

 

Satele is worse this year than he was last year, playing hurt. He's the problem. I don't think Shipley is the solution. Marginal improvement, maybe, but that's only after Satele's regression.

 

And we drafted Holmes, so it's not like Satele was given carte blanche. I also disagree with the idea that having Shipley behind him would have spurred Satele to play better. He's just not good. It's an easy conclusion to reach. I just wish we didn't have to keep hearing about Shipley all the time. He's entirely irrelevant.

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In fact, I believe Grigson should get maybe 10% or less of the blame.

 

He picked up guys in such a way he could cut them at the end of the year and leave us with very little cap hit.

 

He did trade away our 1st round draft pick for Trent Richardson, for which I have no problem with. 1st round picks are fickle, you could get a Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. And it is a 20s pick, if we gave up a top 10 pick, I would have been unhappy.

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Satele is worse this year than he was last year, playing hurt. He's the problem. I don't think Shipley is the solution. Marginal improvement, maybe, but that's only after Satele's regression.

 

And we drafted Holmes, so it's not like Satele was given carte blanche. I also disagree with the idea that having Shipley behind him would have spurred Satele to play better. He's just not good. It's an easy conclusion to reach. I just wish we didn't have to keep hearing about Shipley all the time. He's entirely irrelevant.

Improvement is better than no improvement. However marginal it is imo. what did we trade ship for?

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Improvement is better than no improvement. However marginal it is imo. what did we trade ship for?

 

Just a 7th rounder.

 

I think we were expecting the improvement to come from Satele. He played last year hurt. The expectation was that he'd be better this year. He's been worse. And the trade was made after we drafted Holmes. This is part of running a team.

 

I don't think I'd have traded Shipley, to be honest. But this is not the move that broke our offensive line. 

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I for the life of me can't see where the guy is far off on any of his observations.  He's maybe a little to tough on a few issues but mostly is spot on. With a draft and Irsay spending over 100 mill , there is no excuse for an O line like this. Sorry guys but a 2nd tier guard going down is not enough of an excuse. Whose fault is Satale ? ... mine ?

 

You spent 7 million $'s ( 2 years)  on a back up QB and Andrew Luck is getting slaughtered ?  I would think that Jim Irsay will roll heads if he sees one more year of RB's getting stoned and Luck looking like a pin ball.  

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Shipley isn't playing all that well. He's a marginal talent. The problem is with Satele, but Shipley wouldn't fix our offensive line.

satele is making some good pulling run blocks to the left, just not cutting it up the middle, also weak in pass blocking, but I see improvement when we use six on the o-line

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In fact, I believe Grigson should get maybe 10% or less of the blame.

 

He picked up guys in such a way he could cut them at the end of the year and leave us with very little cap hit.

 

He did trade away our 1st round draft pick for Trent Richardson, for which I have no problem with. 1st round picks are fickle, you could get a Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. And it is a 20s pick, if we gave up a top 10 pick, I would have been unhappy.

 

10% ?  While I like much of what he has done and I agree he did well in structuring the contracts ... he deserves far more blame than 10%.

 

He failed at addressing the offensive line.  Cherilus and Thomas were good pick ups, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the other 2 glaring weaknesses on the OL (Satele & McGlynn).  It was obvious last year that they were bad, it was silly to just assume they were going to make some magical jump this season.  And even if he was hoping they make the jump, he still should have had a contingency plan.  He should have picked up at least one C and one more G in FA.  I know people like to try to point out that he addressed those areas in the draft, but that's nonsense you can't expect players drafted that late (plus holmes with injury) to be ready to step in if you see Satele and McGlynn aren't any better.

 

Except for Havili his trades were horrible. You are way undervaluing a low first round pick.

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Just a 7th rounder.

 

I think we were expecting the improvement to come from Satele. He played last year hurt. The expectation was that he'd be better this year. He's been worse. And the trade was made after we drafted Holmes. This is part of running a team.

 

I don't think I'd have traded Shipley, to be honest. But this is not the move that broke our offensive line. 

 

I don't see how you justify trading off Shipley even if he is just marginally better, because you drafted an injured C in the 4th round. A little too much wishful thinking on grigson's part.

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10% ?  While I like much of what he has done and I agree he did well in structuring the contracts ... he deserves far more blame than 10%.

 

He failed at addressing the offensive line.  Cherilus and Thomas were good pick ups, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the other 2 glaring weaknesses on the OL (Satele & McGlynn).  It was obvious last year that they were bad, it was silly to just assume they were going to make some magical jump this season.  And even if he was hoping they make the jump, he still should have had a contingency plan.  He should have picked up at least one C and one more G in FA.  I know people like to try to point out that he addressed those areas in the draft, but that's nonsense you can't expect players drafted that late (plus holmes with injury) to be ready to step in if you see Satele and McGlynn aren't any better.

 

Except for Havili his trades were horrible. You are way undervaluing a low first round pick.

How many offseasons has Grigson been GM? What were you expecting in the 2nd year of rebuilding? The instant turnaround has been nothing short of amazing. 

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How many offseasons has Grigson been GM? What were you expecting in the 2nd year of rebuilding? The instant turnaround has been nothing short of amazing. 

 

1st year or 10th year its irrelevant ...  the problems with the OL should have been obvious, picking up some additional FA O linemen should not have been rocket science. 

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I don't see how you justify trading off Shipley even if he is just marginally better, because you drafted an injured C in the 4th round. A little too much wishful thinking on grigson's part.

 

I justify trading Shipley because he's not good himself. If we need a better center, then talk about getting a better center. Stop propping up Shipley as the supposed savior of our offensive line. 

 

I probably wouldn't have traded him, but he's not worth all the noise, is all I'm saying. 

 

Khaled Holmes was reinjured in camp. Before the injuries last year at USC, he was expected to be a mid 2nd rounder. He's a good prospect, and can play guard or center, depending on our blocking scheme. We didn't draft him expecting him to be on the shelf through camp and preseason, which took him out of the running for a starting job. He was expected to push for a spot right away.

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1st year or 10th year its irrelevant ...  the problems with the OL should have been obvious, picking up some additional FA O linemen should not have been rocket science. 

 

So, the four offensive linemen we picked up (disregarding the UDFAs and whatnot) don't count? You say "the problems with the OL should have been obvious..." as if Grigson didn't do anything about it.

 

This is what I'm saying. It's easy to look back after Thomas is hurt, and after Holmes missed preseason, and gripe about how Grigson didn't fix the line. But it's also silly.

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I justify trading Shipley because he's not good himself. If we need a better center, then talk about getting a better center. Stop propping up Shipley as the supposed savior of our offensive line. 

 

I probably wouldn't have traded him, but he's not worth all the noise, is all I'm saying. 

 

Khaled Holmes was reinjured in camp. Before the injuries last year at USC, he was expected to be a mid 2nd rounder. He's a good prospect, and can play guard or center, depending on our blocking scheme. We didn't draft him expecting him to be on the shelf through camp and preseason, which took him out of the running for a starting job. He was expected to push for a spot right away.

 

I did think we should have gotten a better center in FA (and the draft for that matter).  I dont think shipley is the savior, I was making reference to the conversation of him being "marginally" better than Satele (which I think he is) and I will take any improvement regardless of how small. 

 

A good prospect, but I don't remember many talking about him being among the centers who would be making a serious push for the starting position his first year (other than a few people around here who were really high on him).

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So, the four offensive linemen we picked up (disregarding the UDFAs and whatnot) don't count? You say "the problems with the OL should have been obvious..." as if Grigson didn't do anything about it.

 

This is what I'm saying. It's easy to look back after Thomas is hurt, and after Holmes missed preseason, and gripe about how Grigson didn't fix the line. But it's also silly.

 

I gave him credit for Thomas and Cherilus ... but no 2 mid round OL don't count as helping for this season, when there are 2 positions on the line you should be thinking there is a good chance you will have to replace sooner rather than later due to poor play.  He should have picked up 2 more OL in FA; 1 at the very minimum. I posted this during FA I thought for sure he would pick up at least 1 more FA OL before they were all gone.

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I did think we should have gotten a better center in FA (and the draft for that matter).  I dont think shipley is the savior, I was making reference to the conversation of him being "marginally" better than Satele (which I think he is) and I will take any improvement regardless of how small. 

 

A good prospect, but I don't remember many talking about him being among the centers who would be making a serious push for the starting position his first year (other than a few people around here who were really high on him).

 

Satele has regressed. That factors in. As disappointing as he was last year, he's been worse this year. That's not something you can foresee. If anything, you'd expect him to be better, after dealing with injuries all last year. No dice. So while maybe you'd prefer this year's Shipley over this year's Satele, I don't think I'd prefer this year's Shipley over last year's Satele.

 

As for Holmes, I think the hope was that a) Satele would be better, and b) Holmes would compete at center and left guard. Neither of those two happened, in Holmes' case because of injury. Again, not foreseeable.

 

We can parse this with the benefit of hindsight all day and night. Two things don't change: 1) Grigson DID address the offensive line, even if the results aren't satisfactory, and 2) We still have a lot of work to do.

 

Grigson's work is not above reproach. I just don't like the Vasquez / Levitre / Shipley argument. It rings hollow.

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      pgt_rob 817

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