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What's the difference?


Rick Ferrin
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With all the "Fans" on here talking about how bad we suck and so on, really tell me.  Whats the difference in this team that beat San Fran, Seattle and Denver?  Aside from the obvious of losing Wayne.  What else has changed?  After Denver, the team looked amazing.  Defense was making plays all over, offense was clicking nicely.  So what changed.  Why is everyone saying We suck now and have no chance at beating anyone.  Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan.  Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now.  Do the Colts need work?  Sure, no team is perfect.  But SUCK??  really? 

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With all the "Fans" on here talking about how bad we suck and so on, really tell me.  Whats the difference in this team that beat San Fran, Seattle and Denver?  Aside from the obvious of losing Wayne.  What else has changed?  After Denver, the team looked amazing.  Defense was making plays all over, offense was clicking nicely.  So what changed.  Why is everyone saying We suck now and have no chance at beating anyone.  Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan.  Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now.  Do the Colts need work?  Sure, no team is perfect.  But SUCK??  really? 

I see improvement in the o-line after luck got sacked five times in the titans game. our o-line is weak so on the last drive we used six on the line, it worked we protected luck and ran the ball, satelle made some good pulling run blocks to the left side,this formation looked good.

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 Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan.  Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now.  Do the Colts need work?  Sure, no team is perfect.  But SUCK??  really? 

It could be even worse than that.  We could be Jets season ticket holders questioning the sanity of spending a crap-ton of hard earned cash to sit in the cold and watch Geno Flippin' Smith throw picks.

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we are not just ready yet IMO.

even in the denver game, didnt we score only like 6 points int he second half? people just went with the final result, but we have had flaws all season long.... not complaining, we are still ayoung team but injuries on this young team, who still lacks depth has beent he issue.

 

so i guess...injuries and depth

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If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you

:dunno:

Should have been more clear on the question I guess.  Its the same team.  Minus Wayne.  Same personnel, same coaches, same everything.  To me it boils down to execution.  Thats just my opinion.  Toler has been out for a few games as well but i really believe the talent is there.  Guys just have to dig deep and get back to form. 

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With all the "Fans" on here talking about how bad we suck and so on, really tell me.  Whats the difference in this team that beat San Fran, Seattle and Denver?  Aside from the obvious of losing Wayne.  What else has changed?  After Denver, the team looked amazing.  Defense was making plays all over, offense was clicking nicely.  So what changed.  Why is everyone saying We suck now and have no chance at beating anyone.  Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan.  Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now.  Do the Colts need work?  Sure, no team is perfect.  But SUCK??  really? 

Everybody isnt saying anything..

 

But losing 40-9 is not normal for a playoff team...There is FAR too much variation in our performance.

 

Beating top-ranked Seattle (11-1).and seciond rated DFenver (10-2) ..and losing 40-9 are 2 vastlly different things and its a 'red flag'

 

Something is wrong with us. I dont know what it is

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Everybody isnt saying anything..

 

But losing 40-9 is not normal for a playoff team...There is FAR too much variation in our performance.

 

Beating top-ranked Seattle (11-1).and seciond rated DFenver (10-2) ..and losing 40-9 are 2 vastlly different things and its a 'red flag'

 

Something is wrong with us. I dont know what it is

 

So execution?  Thats how i see it.

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Lack of depth is an issue and not just WR. Every team gets injuries but not every team was blown up a year and a half ago. That's why the mediocre 2013 draft and the whiff on TR were untimely. I think what is a bit puzzling is secondary's decline though depth is part of that problem, too. Losing Toler hurt even if he wasn't playing great. Hopefully Grigson will do better in the 2014 draft, even without a #1.

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Should have been more clear on the question I guess.  Its the same team.  Minus Wayne.  Same personnel, same coaches, same everything.  To me it boils down to execution.  Thats just my opinion.  Toler has been out for a few games as well but i really believe the talent is there.  Guys just have to dig deep and get back to form. 

 

I've been saying the same thing.  Of course, the loss of Reggie cannot be underestimated.  It's huge.  It may be the entire answer to your question.

 

Yes, the D has been blown out twice.  Personally, I think that's more due to scheme and execution.  And it's something that can be fixed.  And if anyone thinks getting blown out in the middle of the season means a darn thing at the end of the season, just review the Ravens scores last year.

 

As far as "all the fans that say we suck", I hope you realize that people would write things that they would be embarrassed saying out loud.  IMO, complaining and moaning is just their way of blowing off steam.  I'd rather have honest discussions about our problems.

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With all the "Fans" on here talking about how bad we suck and so on, really tell me.  Whats the difference in this team that beat San Fran, Seattle and Denver?  Aside from the obvious of losing Wayne.  What else has changed?  After Denver, the team looked amazing.  Defense was making plays all over, offense was clicking nicely.  So what changed.  Why is everyone saying We suck now and have no chance at beating anyone.  Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan.  Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now.  Do the Colts need work?  Sure, no team is perfect.  But SUCK??  really? 

 

Hmm, what has changed.  Bradshaw went on IR and our ground game went into the toilet. Reggie got hurt late in the Denver game and Luck did not complete a single pass in that game after that.  Since then, Lucks season completion percentage dropped from 61%  before Denver to 55% after and it's still dropping fast. rushing yds and attempts down, passing attempts up.

 

D side, Toler has not played a down since Denver game, Asante IR'd, Gordy and Howell OUT most every game, then Herron IR'd along with Harvey.  D giving up points and yds, losing T.O.P battle and until this last game losing turnover battle.

 

I don't have time to look at all the stuff, but for those with time and desire, there is much to be discovered since the Bronco game.  Or even at Bronco game starting the play after Reggie went down.

 

So I wonder if coaching (decision making and game planning) isn't just as much an issue as players not making plays? (execution?)

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With all the "Fans" on here talking about how bad we suck and so on, really tell me.  Whats the difference in this team that beat San Fran, Seattle and Denver?  Aside from the obvious of losing Wayne.  What else has changed?  After Denver, the team looked amazing.  Defense was making plays all over, offense was clicking nicely.  So what changed.  Why is everyone saying We suck now and have no chance at beating anyone.  Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan.  Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now.  Do the Colts need work?  Sure, no team is perfect.  But SUCK??  really? 

Because everyone thinks they no football, players, coaches and anythnig else behind a computer screen.

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Lack of depth is an issue and not just WR. Every team gets injuries but not every team was blown up a year and a half ago. That's why the mediocre 2013 draft and the whiff on TR were untimely. I think what is a bit puzzling is secondary's decline though depth is part of that problem, too. Losing Toler hurt even if he wasn't playing great. Hopefully Grigson will do better in the 2014 draft, even without a #1.

 

I have to respectfully disagree to some extent.  You can't expect any team to have depth in replacing their star players.  I don't think too many teams have a future HoFamer they can sub in for another one.

 

To a lesser extent that applies to Allen, which may have been an equal loss as Reggie.  Thomas only played, what, two games?  That was a loss but we beat a lot of good teams without him.

 

Other than that, we have pretty good depth.  There's not a great drop off from Toler to Butler.  As far at TRich, I can't see how picking him up possibly made the team worse.

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There's definitely a flaw somewhere. To be able to beat contending teams like the Broncos, Seahawks, 49ers, etc., and lose lopsided to teams that we're suppose to beat, then there's definitely something wrong. I wouldn't use injuries as an excuse because every team in the NFL has injuries to their key players.

 

To answer the question what the difference is? Consistency.

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So execution?  Thats how i see it.

 

Nobody is talented enough to execute and produce the way Reggie Wayne did.  Stats prove it.  Toler hasn't played a down since Bronco game either. It appears the talent level isn't there to fill his shoes completely either.  Other teams have figured out our schemes, O and D, , making execution even more difficult.

 

It feel is as much coaching as execution, as I stated before.

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With all the "Fans" on here talking about how bad we suck and so on, really tell me. Whats the difference in this team that beat San Fran, Seattle and Denver? Aside from the obvious of losing Wayne. What else has changed? After Denver, the team looked amazing. Defense was making plays all over, offense was clicking nicely. So what changed. Why is everyone saying We suck now and have no chance at beating anyone. Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan. Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now. Do the Colts need work? Sure, no team is perfect. But SUCK?? really?

We lost more than Wayne since then. We lost Thomas, Bradshaw & Wayne. Plus satele was on the bench when we have had success with the line.

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We lost more than Wayne since then. We lost Thomas, Bradshaw & Wayne. Plus satele was on the bench when we have had success with the line.

 

Since the Bronco game, Luck has 5 passing TD's and 4 Interceptions.  Take out the Texans game, then over the last 4 games Luck has 2 TD passes and 4 Interceptions.

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With all the "Fans" on here talking about how bad we suck and so on, really tell me.  Whats the difference in this team that beat San Fran, Seattle and Denver?  Aside from the obvious of losing Wayne.  What else has changed?  After Denver, the team looked amazing.  Defense was making plays all over, offense was clicking nicely.  So what changed.  Why is everyone saying We suck now and have no chance at beating anyone.  Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan.  Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now.  Do the Colts need work?  Sure, no team is perfect.  But SUCK??  really? 

The biggest difference is, IMO, the loss of Toler.  Forum members, IMO, do not want to give him the credit he is due.  When he and Davis were the starting CBs the defense ran a man/press type D.  With him injured the Colts have moved to more of a soft zone coverage.  The differences are fewer options with bring a LB to rush the passer, Freeman is good against the run but not so great in zone coverage, Angerer who is better in coverage can be a half a step slow in recongnizing the run when he's dropping back into his zone.  Bethea needs to cover a wider area, Butler is a horrible zone CB (which is why I liked the move of him to the #2, it allowed the Colts to play more man coverage), on the line they are able to key in on Mathis without worrying about stunts or LBers very often.

So in essense the zone coverage allows a more consistent running game which then opens things up for the passing game, especially the long passes. Add to that, then Butler not being good in zone coverage, Vaughn not being good once he turns his hips, Davis not having elite long speed (he can stay with any receiver for 20 yards but after that a speedster will outrun him) and the Freeman and Angerer being better suited to having an assignment (not reading and reacting), you get some of the struggles we have seen since the Denver game.

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We've shown a huge inability to produce on offense since losing Wayne.  Our first plan to replace his production seemed to have been Whalen, Richardson, DHB, and Fleener, of which only Fleener has worked out relatively well.  Whatsmore, DHB has been less than productive, he's dropped big plays, and invisible when not dropping passes.  So, on offense, we're hopefully benching DHB and giving Rogers and Brazill more time.  Slowly, we're finding some minor improvements on offense.  (Brazill looked alright against the Titans and Donald Brown is getting more playing time.)  But, realistically, we can't expect much on O until the O-line improves.  The line is playing much worse than when we beat three of the top teams in the NFL. 

 

On D, people have already mentioned a lot of reasons above.  1) We're missing Toler, who could play the 2nd receiver man-to-man.  2) No pass rusher opposite Mathis has stepped up.  3) Kind of missing Howell.  4) Vontae not playing as well as earlier in the season.  But, really, I don't think the defense has deteriorated as much as the offense, which was dealt death blows by losing our top WR, TE, and top two RBs.  Hopefully we continue to adjust the OL to find a winning combo (Costanzo, Reitz, McGlynn, Thornton, Cherilus, anyone?)...

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In my opinion, the difference is a culmination of different things, leading to one big problem.

 

In many regards, it can be traced back to a coaching issue. We keep playing players that do not produce, DHB, Satele,  MCGlynn, Richardson. This, hopefully will not be the case anymore, after the changes that were made last week.

 

 

As many have pointed out, the loss of Toler is a big deal on defense. Our strength coming into this season was our defensive secondary. They covered really well, making the opposing QBs hold onto the ball for a second longer, thus allowing our defensive line and LBs to get to the QB. Without our secondary being able to play tight, we've allowed even back up QBs to torch our defense.

 

However, the biggest difference is on offense. First, I would mention that sticking with T-Rich as the starter behind our O-line was a recipe for disaster. As we all know, he has a low YPC (argument beaten to death). What this does, however, is it gets us behind the count. We seemingly always run on first down and either lose yards or gain 2 yards max. Then we're forced to throw the ball to get the first, and with our horrible O-line and Pep's "short Coast" passing offense, even if Luck completes a pass, it's usually just for 3-4 yards. This brings us to third down and we have been horrible on third downs this year. Luck has been underwhelming after the Denver game. (We all have to agree that he has missed several open receivers, or made some poor throws--possibly as a culmination of poor pass protection, poor receivers, and just flat out wearing down, but we've seen him play better. My defense for Luck is still to follow, stay tuned.) T-Rich has a lot of talent but has not figured it out yet and the coaching staff insisted that he start despite seeing how well Brown was doing. This led to a bad run offense, causing even more pressure to be placed on Luck's shoulders.

 

Now imagine if you are Andrew Luck. After the losing Wayne in the Denver game (Luck blamed himself for the poor throw to Wayne by the way), he is forced to rely on DHB. Luck probably loves DHB as a person, but knows that he cannot rely on him a player. He had confidence in T.Y. and after they built a connection with T.Y. showing potential to be a #1 receiver, opposing defenses have double teamed T.Y., taking him away as an option. Luck also relied on Fleener, who has stepped up, and on Whalen, who he has familiarity with. Whalen, however, was just not dynamic enough to get open at times and is now back on the practice squad. I think Luck would still prefer that Whalen be out on the field. This is my gut feeling based on how often Whalen was targeted. They have a mental connection, which is a comfort for Luck. He knows where Whalen will be. Now Luck has to rely on Brazill, and Rogers, both of whom he does not have much familiarity with. Rogers has just gotten his first start last week and Brazill missed 4 games and hasn't played a big role in any of the games that he's played. As a QB, it's important that you can rely on your receivers. You have to know their body language and how to throw them open. This takes time, which unfortunately we do not have.

 

To sum it all up, we'll keep hurting on defense until Toler comes back to full form and our defensive secondary can be the strength of the D once again. We will continue to have problems on offense, stemming from our poor O-line, leading to a poor run game, leading to too much pressure on the passing game due to new/unreliable receivers and poor pass protection.

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Since the Bronco game, Luck has 5 passing TD's and 4 Interceptions. Take out the Texans game, then over the last 4 games Luck has 2 TD passes and 4 Interceptions.

Since Wayne went down our receivers are either not getting open or not catching the ball. Combined with the line I think Luck has been getting rattled and not playing in rhythm. I think we need to get some bootlegs going. Maybe even a qb scramble to get him hit so he can start playing better like he says. Lol, who knows. It's really frustrating I know that much.

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With all the "Fans" on here talking about how bad we suck and so on, really tell me.  Whats the difference in this team that beat San Fran, Seattle and Denver?  Aside from the obvious of losing Wayne.  What else has changed?  After Denver, the team looked amazing.  Defense was making plays all over, offense was clicking nicely.  So what changed.  Why is everyone saying We suck now and have no chance at beating anyone.  Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan.  Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now.  Do the Colts need work?  Sure, no team is perfect.  But SUCK??  really? 

The Colts do not 'suck'...we are not that bad. 

We just lost so much to injuries that we have very little chance to beat the top teams.

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Should have been more clear on the question I guess.  Its the same team.  Minus Wayne.  Same personnel, same coaches, same everything.  To me it boils down to execution.  Thats just my opinion.  Toler has been out for a few games as well but i really believe the talent is there.  Guys just have to dig deep and get back to form. 

 

That's a big freakin' deal, man. You're just glossing over it like it's a minor speed bump. It's proven to be much more than that.

 

Reggie Wayne was basically a third of our passing offense last year. Not only that, he is a veteran leader, someone that Luck could rely on come third down, and he set the pace for the rest of the receiving corps. Losing him has been huge. Our offense has been stuck in mud without him.

 

Look at how average Tom Brady was playing without Wes Welker. Now imagine Tom Brady is a second year pro with a rookie offensive coordinator and zero run game.

 

You can't just say "we're the same team, just minus Reggie." That basically makes us a different team.

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So execution?  Thats how i see it.

After the 40-9 beating, I'm sure a lot of us were in favor of execution, but fortunately we came to our senses.

(sorry, couldn't help it)

We most definitely are not the same team without Reggie and the other's who are on IR. I was hopeful that the coaching staff would make adjustments to counter their loss, but seem either unwilling or unable to. Until we get the offense back on track, and end the sloppy penalties on both sides of the ball, we may be in the playoffs (after sunday) but we are not going to go far.

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That's a big freakin' deal, man. You're just glossing over it like it's a minor speed bump. It's proven to be much more than that.

 

Reggie Wayne was basically a third of our passing offense last year. Not only that, he is a veteran leader, someone that Luck could rely on come third down, and he set the pace for the rest of the receiving corps. Losing him has been huge. Our offense has been stuck in mud without him.

 

Look at how average Tom Brady was playing without Wes Welker. Now imagine Tom Brady is a second year pro with a rookie offensive coordinator and zero run game.

 

You can't just say "we're the same team, just minus Reggie." That basically makes us a different team.

Of course its a big deal.  Not the point i was making.  Last i checked, Reggie wasnt playing on the Oline or playing defense or calling plays.  Im talking overall.  Just because reggie went down doesnt mean the defense get burnt on the opening drive of every game after that. Of course there is going to be change, but it shouldnt make the Line worse or Davis forget how to cover at times and get burnt or DHB forget how to catch. 

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Of course its a big deal.  Not the point i was making.  Last i checked, Reggie wasnt playing on the Oline or playing defense or calling plays.  Im talking overall.  Just because reggie went down doesnt mean the defense get burnt on the opening drive of every game after that. Of course there is going to be change, but it shouldnt make the Line worse or Davis forget how to cover at times and get burnt or DHB forget how to catch. 

 

The defense will get fixed. That's not really related to Reggie, though there can be a trickle-down effect.

 

The offensive line was up and down all year, so that's not different. But no one coming open makes the offensive line look worse. Luck's hesitance to throw the ball to receivers (where he would otherwise be giving Reggie a chance) leads to him getting sacked/hit more.

 

These offensive changes make us a different team. We're not as effective on third down. Defenses key in on the run even more. Hilton's big play potential is hindered because he can be bracketed more often. 

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With all the "Fans" on here talking about how bad we suck and so on, really tell me. Whats the difference in this team that beat San Fran, Seattle and Denver? Aside from the obvious of losing Wayne. What else has changed? After Denver, the team looked amazing. Defense was making plays all over, offense was clicking nicely. So what changed. Why is everyone saying We suck now and have no chance at beating anyone. Honestly, to those of you that say we suck, try being a Jags fan, or a houston fan. Those teams are bottom of the barrel right now. Do the Colts need work? Sure, no team is perfect. But SUCK?? really?

Complacency, they were smelling their self a little too much after beating Denver, now they are trying to flip that switch back on and it just hasn't came back yet but it's getting better now than the past few games. Hopefully they flip the switch completely back on starting with the Bengals and build some momentum heading into the playoffs
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Complacency, they were smelling their self a little too much after beating Denver, now they are trying to flip that switch back on and it just hasn't came back yet but it's getting better now than the past few games. Hopefully they flip the switch completely back on starting with the Bengals and build some momentum heading into the playoffs

Agreed.  Injuries a lot of the prob but id say some got a little to big for thier britches.  Gotta come back down and get back to fundamentals

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Everybody isnt saying anything..

But losing 40-9 is not normal for a playoff team...There is FAR too much variation in our performance.

Beating top-ranked Seattle (11-1).and seciond rated DFenver (10-2) ..and losing 40-9 are 2 vastlly different things and its a 'red flag'

Something is wrong with us. I dont know what it is

The 06 team got beat 44 to 17 by the jags.
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In short.....we were going to go as far as the Luck to Wayne connection would take us....Now were all asking ourselves on a weekly basis........Luck to who? We dont have that answer yet on the roster.......Most of us are hoping Rogers becomes a big factor at some point this season but that seems a little unrealistic this year.

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I would point to offensively teams have figured out that if you blitz Luck up the middle, it all but stops our offense.  The interior line has a hard time picking them up and Luck holds the ball too long.  So I think that has changed offensively.

 

Defensively, I think teams have figured out that although our secondary is pretty physical, they don't have great speed.  So many crossing routes.  We also don't have much of a pass rush outside of Mathis.

 

So I think they are things we can adjust to  Losing Wayne was a blow, no doubt.  But honestly, do you think if Belichick lost his best wide receiver, they would have this issue?  I hate the Patriots, but Belichick is a genius.  He would scheme so someone else would be open on every play.

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I would point to offensively teams have figured out that if you blitz Luck up the middle, it all but stops our offense.  The interior line has a hard time picking them up and Luck holds the ball too long.  So I think that has changed offensively.

 

Defensively, I think teams have figured out that although our secondary is pretty physical, they don't have great speed.  So many crossing routes.  We also don't have much of a pass rush outside of Mathis.

 

So I think they are things we can adjust to  Losing Wayne was a blow, no doubt.  But honestly, do you think if Belichick lost his best wide receiver, they would have this issue?  I hate the Patriots, but Belichick is a genius.  He would scheme so someone else would be open on every play.

Did you miss the first two months of the season, when the Patriots passing offense struggled mightily? That's with Brady, Belichick and McDaniels. We have a second year head coach with a defensive background, a second year QB, and a rookie coordinator.

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Being realistic and socialising what we are seeing on the field right now does not mean we are not happy about being Colts fans, so all this garbage about 'being a Jags fan or a Jets fan' is nonsense, so that should stop.

The full and simple truth is we are not playing well now, and our 'retooled' squad is simply not deep enough. Some of us can happily admit we are not going far in the play-offs without throwing our loyalty out of the window.

We are just being honest and realistic. It does not make us bad people.

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