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unitaswestand

Too Quick To Call Someone A Bust

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I think some fans are too harsh on a player without maybe considering his situation and supporting cast.  For example, Tim Jennings was a weekly whipping boy on here. It wasn't his fault he was asked to play 10 yards off the receivers.  So he goes to Chicago and is a pretty good corner.  Jerry Hughes was also a guy who had a new "bust" story written about him every week.  He didn't fit as a 4-3 lineman nor did he ever get to play much.  He showed signs as a 3-4 linebacker.  So he goes to Buffalo and is considered a pretty solid pass rushing linebacker.  And we got almost nothing in return.  I say to those who ripped Donald Brown every year and Trent Richardson this year, do consider their situations before wanting them chased out of town.  I believe Brown has always been a pretty good player.  In his 5 years we have never had a good run blocking line.  So rarely did he have chances.  Now Richardson is being hammered, but it seems he almost never has a hole.  What I cringe to think about is after this season Donald Brown signing as a free agent with a team that has a decent run blocking line and then he really lights it up.  Sure, there are some guys I think are pretty obviously bad.  Satele has proven he has been subpar on the three teams he has been on.  McGlynn as well. 

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I think some fans are too harsh on a player without maybe considering his situation and supporting cast.  For example, Tim Jennings was a weekly whipping boy on here. It wasn't his fault he was asked to play 10 yards off the receivers.  So he goes to Chicago and is a pretty good corner.  Jerry Hughes was also a guy who had a new "bust" story written about him every week.  He didn't fit as a 4-3 lineman nor did he ever get to play much.  He showed signs as a 3-4 linebacker.  So he goes to Buffalo and is considered a pretty solid pass rushing linebacker.  And we got almost nothing in return.  I say to those who ripped Donald Brown every year and Trent Richardson this year, do consider their situations before wanting them chased out of town.  I believe Brown has always been a pretty good player.  In his 5 years we have never had a good run blocking line.  So rarely did he have chances.  Now Richardson is being hammered, but it seems he almost never has a hole.  What I cringe to think about is after this season Donald Brown signing as a free agent with a team that has a decent run blocking line and then he really lights it up.  Sure, there are some guys I think are pretty obviously bad.  Satele has proven he has been subpar on the three teams he has been on.  McGlynn as well. 

 

This Sunday in 3 quarters even DB couldn't put up big yardage to box, what clearly proved that our run blocking is the reason for Richardson's struggles. DB stepped up in the final drive (like everyone else in that drive), but we are just not 'power running team' and not because of our RB stable. either it is play calling, or O-line just doesn't block well enough.

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We have had a pass blocking line for a long time in my opinion. They had been JUST good enough at run blocking so that play action worked. Now, we can't do either. A lot of it I think was the offense was built for manning and a passing offense. The coaches are now asking the OLine to be something that they are not - a physical run blocking line. This hopefully improves next year with O Line drops and additions and hopefully, a solid wide receiver.

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Didn't Tim Jennings lead the league in interceptions and make the pro bowl? I'd say that qualifies as pretty good but your point is very well taken and correct.

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There's no doubt our run blocking is atrocious. That's why I've laid off TRich.

 

If you subtract Richardson, the Colts, as a team, are averaging 5.3 yards a carry, which would place them #1 in the league by a wide margin.  This is a poor pass blocking line, no doubt, but I've come to the conclusion this is actually a good run-blocking line made to look bad by Richardson.  With Richardson on the bench, I'm not so sure they couldn't be the successful running team Pagano envisions them to be. 

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The only thing in my mind that prevents me from giving T-Rich the benefit of the doubt, would be that he has been remarkably consistent.  His stats are pretty much exactly what they were when he was with the Browns.  Does lightning strike twice?

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If you subtract Richardson, the Colts, as a team, are averaging 5.3 yards a carry, which would place them #1 in the league by a wide margin.  This is a poor pass blocking line, no doubt, but I've come to the conclusion this is actually a good run-blocking line made to look bad by Richardson.  With Richardson on the bench, I'm not so sure they couldn't be the successful running team Pagano envisions them to be. 

 

Not necessarily disagreeing here, but didn't Richardson have a higher YPC this past Sunday than Brown did when he was the RB who got less carries? I almost certain he did before the final drive of the game and he may have anyway. I think we need to see more games with Brown as the feature back before concluding that this is a good run-blocking line, because Brown could do nothing on Sunday before that final drive.

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Not necessarily disagreeing here, but didn't Richardson have a higher YPC this past Sunday than Brown did when he was the RB who got less carries? I almost certain he did before the final drive of the game and he may have anyway. I think we need to see more games with Brown as the feature back before concluding that this is a good run-blocking line, because Brown could do nothing on Sunday before that final drive.

 

Not just Brown - Ballard, Bradshaw and everyone who has touched the ball(but Richardson) has done well.  I gave Richardson the benefit of the doubt as long as I could, but at 3/4 the way through the season, it's impossible to continue to do so. 

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 Some players just jump out at you as busts (B.W. being one) very early, even in preseason. They just seem lost and totally out of their league. Man, we've had two giant failures back to back with B.W. and T-RICH. We really need to hit on our late picks, and RFA just to break even.

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If you subtract Richardson, the Colts, as a team, are averaging 5.3 yards a carry, which would place them #1 in the league by a wide margin.  This is a poor pass blocking line, no doubt, but I've come to the conclusion this is actually a good run-blocking line made to look bad by Richardson.  With Richardson on the bench, I'm not so sure they couldn't be the successful running team Pagano envisions them to be. 

Does that average include Luck? I remember 10 years ago Atlanta was the best running game in the league in large part because of Vick getting 1000 yards. Not trying to be a contrarian - I’m just curious if he factors into our rushing stats or if it’s strictly non-QB rushes.

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 Some players just jump out at you as busts (B.W. being one) very early, even in preseason. They just seem lost and totally out of their league. Man, we've had two giant failures back to back with B.W. and T-RICH. We really need to hit on our late picks, and RFA just to break even.

 

I wasn't a fan of the Werner pick, but I think it is too early to call him a bust.  He is a rookie, switching to a new position, who was injured I think in that situation you need to give him a year or two before calling him a bust.

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There is not a doubt in my mind that the future of the franchise will revolve around Andrew Luck AND Trent Richardson.

 

Jennings and Hughes obviously have the talent. Makes one question the coaching/scheme at the time.

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I agree that it is too early to label some guys as busts.

 

I don't get the whole Bjoern is a bust because he has been playing behind Walden, who has been a very good pick-up, and Bjoern actually has some decent plays when in the game.

 

Trent does seem very lost and timid hitting the holes and I can understand people calling him a bust. Marshawn Lynch was considered a bust in Buffalo. I see a lot of similar playing style with those two. Maybe we just need to have some candy on the sidelines for Trent and maybe he can break out.

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I wasn't a fan of the Werner pick, but I think it is too early to call him a bust.  He is a rookie, switching to a new position, who was injured I think in that situation you need to give him a year or two before calling him a bust.

 

 

I'm hoping you're right.

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I agree. Even Marshon Lynch had some bad years. Look at him now. That's what I hope Trent turns out to be. If he puts the work in I don't see that being a problem.

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If you subtract Richardson, the Colts, as a team, are averaging 5.3 yards a carry, which would place them #1 in the league by a wide margin.  This is a poor pass blocking line, no doubt, but I've come to the conclusion this is actually a good run-blocking line made to look bad by Richardson.  With Richardson on the bench, I'm not so sure they couldn't be the successful running team Pagano envisions them to be. 

did you see last game? what games have you been watching?

 

those stats are inflated by some of the long donald browns have every once ina while, which is good but those happen because of his speed not because the OL is opening giantic holes. which i guess is the reason he is starting now. Als, because of Luck's scrambles.

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I hate getting into these D.Brown vs. TRich discussions, and I know this thread isn't necessarily one of them. I also have to say that I'm a supporter of both of our current RBs, and hope/trust the TRich lives up to everyone's expectations eventually (who doesn't).

 

However, there is one comment that sticks in the back of my mind that I'm still looking for signs of, so I understand. That comment being: Shortly after the trade a Browns player was asked his opinion of the trade. His only response was that TRich just has some things to figure out, and he'll be a great player. Dunno what that means exactly, but eyes/ears are open.

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The last series of the game the colts used a bunch formation which included 3 tackles, 1 TE, 2 WR and a fullback which opened some holes up because it was spreading out the titans defense. IMO they should continue this due to the fact they do not have a good blocking tight end. I have seen this formation only a couple of series during the year and it was working for the most part. 

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This Sunday in 3 quarters even DB couldn't put up big yardage to box, what clearly proved that our run blocking is the reason for Richardson's struggles. DB stepped up in the final drive (like everyone else in that drive), but we are just not 'power running team' and not because of our RB stable. either it is play calling, or O-line just doesn't block well enough.

that i could not agree with more. i honestly think pep's mind is in the right place when he wants to try to run more to open up the pass game, but his play calls are always at the wrong time. I mean for one, its obvious we are running the ball when richardson is in there yet he does not go with a play action or a screen pass to him (which richardson has shown he can do very well is receiving and picking up big chunks of yards) and with the middle of our OLine struggling, and Richardson's size he isnt going to average anymore then 3 yards a carry, which could possibly (may not) help his run game a little if they ran stretch plays or counter gaps.  but what do i know, im not an OC or a coach for that matter. 

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I think some fans are too harsh on a player without maybe considering his situation and supporting cast.  For example, Tim Jennings was a weekly whipping boy on here. It wasn't his fault he was asked to play 10 yards off the receivers.  So he goes to Chicago and is a pretty good corner.  Jerry Hughes was also a guy who had a new "bust" story written about him every week.  He didn't fit as a 4-3 lineman nor did he ever get to play much.  He showed signs as a 3-4 linebacker.  So he goes to Buffalo and is considered a pretty solid pass rushing linebacker.  And we got almost nothing in return.  I say to those who ripped Donald Brown every year and Trent Richardson this year, do consider their situations before wanting them chased out of town.  I believe Brown has always been a pretty good player.  In his 5 years we have never had a good run blocking line.  So rarely did he have chances.  Now Richardson is being hammered, but it seems he almost never has a hole.  What I cringe to think about is after this season Donald Brown signing as a free agent with a team that has a decent run blocking line and then he really lights it up.  Sure, there are some guys I think are pretty obviously bad.  Satele has proven he has been subpar on the three teams he has been on.  McGlynn as well.

I agree overall. Thing about Donald though is he has changed, he's still playing behind a garbage line. He was bad at finding running lanes for his first few years, luckily he's a late bloomer. Some players are just going to develop like that.

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I wasn't a fan of the Werner pick, but I think it is too early to call him a bust.  He is a rookie, switching to a new position, who was injured I think in that situation you need to give him a year or two before calling him a bust.

I don't understand the Werner being a bust argument at all.

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I think some fans are too harsh on a player without maybe considering his situation and supporting cast.  For example, Tim Jennings was a weekly whipping boy on here. It wasn't his fault he was asked to play 10 yards off the receivers.  So he goes to Chicago and is a pretty good corner.  Jerry Hughes was also a guy who had a new "bust" story written about him every week.  He didn't fit as a 4-3 lineman nor did he ever get to play much.  He showed signs as a 3-4 linebacker.  So he goes to Buffalo and is considered a pretty solid pass rushing linebacker.  And we got almost nothing in return.  I say to those who ripped Donald Brown every year and Trent Richardson this year, do consider their situations before wanting them chased out of town.  I believe Brown has always been a pretty good player.  In his 5 years we have never had a good run blocking line.  So rarely did he have chances.  Now Richardson is being hammered, but it seems he almost never has a hole.  What I cringe to think about is after this season Donald Brown signing as a free agent with a team that has a decent run blocking line and then he really lights it up.  Sure, there are some guys I think are pretty obviously bad.  Satele has proven he has been subpar on the three teams he has been on.  McGlynn as well.

I agree.. Coaching and schemes can do wonders!

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This is the new Information Age.  In the court of public opinion, you're guilty until proven innocent, and a bust until you prove to be competent.

 

Way of the interwebs world.

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I think some fans are too harsh on a player without maybe considering his situation and supporting cast.  For example, Tim Jennings was a weekly whipping boy on here. It wasn't his fault he was asked to play 10 yards off the receivers.  So he goes to Chicago and is a pretty good corner.  Jerry Hughes was also a guy who had a new "bust" story written about him every week.  He didn't fit as a 4-3 lineman nor did he ever get to play much.  He showed signs as a 3-4 linebacker.  So he goes to Buffalo and is considered a pretty solid pass rushing linebacker.  And we got almost nothing in return.  I say to those who ripped Donald Brown every year and Trent Richardson this year, do consider their situations before wanting them chased out of town.  I believe Brown has always been a pretty good player.  In his 5 years we have never had a good run blocking line.  So rarely did he have chances.  Now Richardson is being hammered, but it seems he almost never has a hole.  What I cringe to think about is after this season Donald Brown signing as a free agent with a team that has a decent run blocking line and then he really lights it up.  Sure, there are some guys I think are pretty obviously bad.  Satele has proven he has been subpar on the three teams he has been on.  McGlynn as well. 

 

 

Agree with all but the McGlynn part, blocking is blocking and he flat sucks.

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Not just Brown - Ballard, Bradshaw and everyone who has touched the ball(but Richardson) has done well.  I gave Richardson the benefit of the doubt as long as I could, but at 3/4 the way through the season, it's impossible to continue to do so. 

 

Hard to argue with you. I still hold out hope that something will click with Richardson. He has all the physical tools. I am just not sold on our OL being good at much of anything-- outside of getting our QB almost killed every game.

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One of the problem I have with TRich is his lack of production compared to his teammates. Say what you will about DB's past, but his ypc was right there with his running mates.

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I don't understand the Werner being a bust argument at all.

 

Yeah, 'cause, if Werner's a bust, what does that make Rogers?

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Werner will become a bust the way they are playing him. It the same way Jerry Hughes was treated when he was in indy....... It bad the guy only playing time is on Special team. So how does it feel to use a stupid 1st round draft pick on a guy who soul job it to try to block a punt of block a guy.

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I think some fans are too harsh on a player without maybe considering his situation and supporting cast.  For example, Tim Jennings was a weekly whipping boy on here. It wasn't his fault he was asked to play 10 yards off the receivers.  So he goes to Chicago and is a pretty good corner.  Jerry Hughes was also a guy who had a new "bust" story written about him every week.  He didn't fit as a 4-3 lineman nor did he ever get to play much.  He showed signs as a 3-4 linebacker.  So he goes to Buffalo and is considered a pretty solid pass rushing linebacker.  And we got almost nothing in return.  I say to those who ripped Donald Brown every year and Trent Richardson this year, do consider their situations before wanting them chased out of town.  I believe Brown has always been a pretty good player.  In his 5 years we have never had a good run blocking line.  So rarely did he have chances.  Now Richardson is being hammered, but it seems he almost never has a hole.  What I cringe to think about is after this season Donald Brown signing as a free agent with a team that has a decent run blocking line and then he really lights it up.  Sure, there are some guys I think are pretty obviously bad.  Satele has proven he has been subpar on the three teams he has been on.  McGlynn as well. 

I agree. IMO the ONLY person who should take heat is DHB. I think that there is no hope for him, unfortunately.

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I don't understand the Werner being a bust argument at all.

people don't understand what they are watching

Just understand stat sheets

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I agree. Even Marshon Lynch had some bad years. Look at him now. That's what I hope Trent turns out to be. If he puts the work in I don't see that being a problem.

 

 

You're right Lynch did have two "down" years. That was with a horrendous Buffalo team and when the Hawks were running Tavaris Jackson out there at QB and were also very bad. The difference is that even on some pretty bad teams in Buffalo as a rookie and a 2nd year guy he had good numbers. over 1,000 in each of his first two seasons, something Richardson hasn't done yet. 

 

The prevailing thought was that Luck would make Richardson better like Wilson made Lynch better. That not only hasn't happened, he's gotten WORSE with a better QB. The coaching staff sees it, the rest of the nfl sees it. Maybe he becomes good someday but he definitely isn't now and hasn't been since he came into the league. 

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Yeah, 'cause, if Werner's a bust, what does that make Rogers?

Football Jesus or a mega-bust depending on who you ask. He's just a immature kid with an extremely high ceiling.

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I think some people get confused with the context of the word "bust". People aren't necessarily saying Richardson is a bust as far as his career goes, but they(including me) are saying he has been a total bust for the Colts so far. Grigson traded for him because he panicked and gave up waaaaay too much for him. The thought being that he would come here and immediately have a good impact on the team. He has been the total opposite, he has been a huge liability. No two ways about it, Richardson has been an absolute bust so far. Hopefully he can turn things around.

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I think some people get confused with the context of the word "bust". People aren't necessarily saying Richardson is a bust as far as his career goes, but they(including me) are saying he has been a total bust for the Colts so far. Grigson traded for him because he panicked and gave up waaaaay too much for him. The thought being that he would come here and immediately have a good impact on the team. He has been the total opposite, he has been a huge liability. No two ways about it, Richardson has been an absolute bust so far. Hopefully he can turn things around.

I'm not sure he panicked, just overrated his talent. For some reason a lot of people liked this trade.

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I'm not sure he panicked, just overrated his talent. For some reason a lot of people liked this trade.

 

 

 

I think there was some panic involved with the injuries, JMO. I hated this trade from the beginning and said right after it happened, it was the 1st big mistake from Grigson. My mind hasn't been changed about that. I don't hate Richardson, I just hate giving up a 1st for a RB. That is just never a good idea.

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You're right Lynch did have two "down" years. That was with a horrendous Buffalo team and when the Hawks were running Tavaris Jackson out there at QB and were also very bad. The difference is that even on some pretty bad teams in Buffalo as a rookie and a 2nd year guy he had good numbers. over 1,000 in each of his first two seasons, something Richardson hasn't done yet.

The prevailing thought was that Luck would make Richardson better like Wilson made Lynch better. That not only hasn't happened, he's gotten WORSE with a better QB. The coaching staff sees it, the rest of the nfl sees it. Maybe he becomes good someday but he definitely isn't now and hasn't been since he came into the league.

The biggest and obvious answer is Seattle oline is pretty darn good. Especially last year. Also, we split out carries between our backs for them to be true work horses. Unless said rb was so good that'd it be dumb to take him out. He has been underachieving that's for sure. Hopefully he gets it together.

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I agree that it is too early to label some guys as busts.

 

I don't get the whole Bjoern is a bust because he has been playing behind Walden, who has been a very good pick-up, and Bjoern actually has some decent plays when in the game.

 

Trent does seem very lost and timid hitting the holes and I can understand people calling him a bust. Marshawn Lynch was considered a bust in Buffalo. I see a lot of similar playing style with those two. Maybe we just need to have some candy on the sidelines for Trent and maybe he can break out.

he just need to hit he hole faster instead of waiting for block becouse the line we have cant hold them up for more then 2 seconds im being dead serious 

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T Rich should have never been labeled the starter with the Colts to begin with.  I think it was unfair to him to throw him into that role.  Even after Bradshaw went down, T Rich should have been labeled as the backup to Brown until he learned the system and proved that he was worthy of being the starter. 

 

Now T Rich has been officially demoted.  That can't be good on a young player. 

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If you subtract Richardson, the Colts, as a team, are averaging 5.3 yards a carry, which would place them #1 in the league by a wide margin.  This is a poor pass blocking line, no doubt, but I've come to the conclusion this is actually a good run-blocking line made to look bad by Richardson.  With Richardson on the bench, I'm not so sure they couldn't be the successful running team Pagano envisions them to be. 

 

I actually totally agree with this.  Early in the year the Colts were one of the best rushing attacks in the NFL.  Ballard and Bradshaw both were having success.  Brown has had success.   The only one who has really struggled is Richardson.  The big problem lately that i see is that the Colts do not stick with the running game.  Sometimes that is because of the score of the game, other times like last Sunday for instance, it's just bad play calling.   There is no reason Brown should have only had 8 attempts to start the 4th qtr of a 2 point game.  This is especially true when you consider that our line cannot pass block and our receivers struggle to get open.  It's a recipe to get Luck hammered.   I was not shocked at all that with consistent touches in that 4th qtr that Brown ran it down there throat.  He did the same thing a few weeks ago.  

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