Big Ben says Tom Brady is best QB

[jvan1973]

How can anyone firmly establish "cheating" took place if the NFL Commissioner destroyed the tapes Jvan? I'm sorry I'm not just going take Eric Mangini's word for it. Nothing can be proven or disproven with burned evidence?

Enlighten me Jvan....SW1 can't wait to hear this one. It's not about what you think you know; It's about what you can prove with no doubt or ambiguity. Good luck with that one. You're gonna need it.

And if you can't validate that cheating ever took place, it eliminates your critique of a poor analogy right out of the water. Point, set, match...

it's pretty easy actually. They were punished for cheating, they admitted it as well

Touchdown, Home run, goal

[southwest1]

I don't buy into the whole Spygate thing myself, but to compare that to not being prepared for an onside kick seems like quite a stretch to me.

 

Now, if you had said, Bountygate; I could understand.

 

But, I can't recall a team ever being heavily disciplined for not being prepared for an onside kick. 

Actually, my point with the onside kick had nothing to do with a direct comparison at all shecolt. It was merely meant to imply the outlandish nature of claiming that the absence of SB hardware on the part of the Patriots was somehow the reason why NE hasn't won any SBs since the SpyGate story broke. Just because "alleged filming" on the sidelines may have taken place against NFL regulations, it doesn't automatically indicate that this activity lead directly to Lombardi Trophy victories solely based directly from that alleged activity. Also, how do you explain SB appearances via the Patriots since the SpyGate scandal broke? You can't or rather you can't use now destroyed evidence to prove it now based on evidence that does not exist. 

 

The onside kick example was merely an equally outlandish excuse that any Colts fan could use to falsely complain they their team was robbed of a 2nd SB Championship. Translation: Don't use a conspiracy theory to justify why a SB ring was not won. That was my whole point shecolt. Nothing more; nothing less. 

[dw49]

Aaron Rodgers has made similar comments about Brady as well and he has both the stellar stats and a ring:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/06/aaron-rodgers-patriots-tom-brady-is-the-best-by-far-among-current-nfl-quarterbacks/1

 

Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers said Brady "is the best by far" among current NFL quarterbacks.

"It's not even close," Rodgers told ESPN Radio.

The station asked Rodgers who he thought the top five quarterbacks in the NFL are. He added the Chargers' Philip Rivers, the Cowboys' Tony Romo and Saints Super Bowl MVP Drew Brees to the list. And he added Manning, the Colts' four-time MVP.

But he said none, not even Manning, can match the skill level of Brady, the three-time Super Bowl-winning Patriots QB.

Said Rodgers:

 

"No order except for Tom being the best. He does things that other guys can't do. His pocket presence is better than those guys by far. He throws a better ball than just about all those guys. He's a winner – better than all those guys."

 

 

If Aaron Rodgers really said that Tom Brady's pocket presence is far better than Peyton Manning's , he is an ignorant * to the nth degree. I have been watching Pro football for 55 years and I have never seen any QB that can be mentioned in the same breath as Manning in respect to that. It's like he has eyes in the back of his head. The guy has taken about 5 hard hits in the last 14 years.

[southwest1]

it's pretty easy actually. They were punished for cheating, they admitted it as well

Touchdown, Home run, goal

Not without direct evidence it isn't. Please tell me you are not that naive Jvan. A bylaw infraction regarding a person's interpretation proves nothing.

 

Show me evidence Jvan. Sworn testimony, signed affidavits, you can't..

[Dustin]

Not without direct evidence it isn't. Please tell me you are not that naive Jvan. A bylaw infraction regarding a person's interpretation proves nothing.

Show me evidence Jvan. Sworn testimony, affidavits, you can't..

So why did the NFL take the Patriots draft picks?

[jvan1973]

Not without direct evidence it isn't. Please tell me you are not that naive Jvan. A bylaw infraction regarding a person's interpretation proves nothing.

Show me evidence Jvan. Sworn testimony, signed affidavits, you can't..

They were docked a draft pick. The patriots didn't appeal. Pretty cut and dry really

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Not without direct evidence it isn't. Please tell me you are not that naive Jvan. A bylaw infraction regarding a person's interpretation proves nothing.

 

Show me evidence Jvan. Sworn testimony, signed affidavits, you can't..

I never saw the photos of a dead Osama Bin Laden, and I don't have them to show you...so I guess he's out there somewhere.

[southwest1]

So why did the NFL take the Patriots draft picks?

You need to ask yourself what both sides admitted to. Both the League & the Patriots organization. BB as I recall admitted only to misinterpreting the rules & Roger Goodell never said point blank that NE cheated.

 

And another thing: Why aren't more NFL fans unleashing their outrage at the Commissioner for destroying the tapes themselves? Channel that anger in the right direction at the right person.

 

Both the Cowboys & Redskins were stripped of draft picks due to not adhering to salary cap rules in the past. What's your point Dustin? Not all infractions are equal in scope? So what?  

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

You need to ask yourself what both sides admitted to. Both the League & the Patriots organization. BB as I recall admitted only to misinterpreting the rules & Roger Goodell never said point blank that NE cheated.

 

And another thing: Why aren't more NFL fans unleashing their outrage at the Commissioner for destroying the tapes themselves? Channel that anger in the right direction at the right person.

 

Both the Cowboys & Redskins were stripped of draft picks due to not adhering to salary cap rules in the past. What's your point Dustin? Not all infractions are equal in scope? So what?  

They didn't actually break any written rules.

[southwest1]

I never saw the photos of a dead Osama Bin Laden, and I don't have them to show you...so I guess he's out there somewhere.

What does killing the #1 terrorist in the world have to do with the Spygate scandal TLJ? Absolutely nothing. 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

What does killing the #1 terrorist in the world have to do with the Spygate scandal TLJ? Absolutely nothing. 

It proves a point that just because I can't show you evidence of something, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[southwest1]

They didn't actually break any written rules.

Okay, then the NFL Commissioner interpreted that both the Cowboys & Redskins did just like BB interpreted that he did nothing wrong regarding Spygate. The absence of direct evidence doesn't quality as direct evidence. 

 

If fans want to get upset at someone, aim that venom at Roger Goodell not Bill Belichick & the NE Patriots. JMO. 

[jvan1973]

Okay, then the NFL Commissioner interpreted that both the Cowboys & Redskins did just like BB interpreted that he did nothing wrong regarding Spygate. The absence of direct evidence doesn't quality as direct evidence.

If fans want to get upset at someone, aim that venom at Roger Goodell not Bill Belichick & the NE Patriots. JMO.

Bob Krsft called BB a * publicly after he lost a draft pick and 250 grand. Seems his venon was directed at b.

[southwest1]

It proves a point that just because I can't show you evidence of something, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You missed my point completely TLJ. Bin Laden has zero relevancy in a discussion about Bill Belichick, Eric Mangini, & Roger Goodell.

 

Unless you want to say for comic relief that Bin Laden was holding the camera. Just Kidding!  

[House]

Okay, then the NFL Commissioner interpreted that both the Cowboys & Redskins did just like BB interpreted that he did nothing wrong regarding Spygate. The absence of direct evidence doesn't quality as direct evidence.

If fans want to get upset at someone, aim that venom at Roger Goodell not Bill Belichick & the NE Patriots. JMO.

Makes more sense to be upset at both if you're going to get upset about it lol.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Okay, then the NFL Commissioner interpreted that both the Cowboys & Redskins did just like BB interpreted that he did nothing wrong regarding Spygate. The absence of direct evidence doesn't quality as direct evidence. 

 

If fans want to get upset at someone, aim that venom at Roger Goodell not Bill Belichick & the NE Patriots. JMO. 

I fail to see the logic in blaming Roger Goodell for what the Pats voluntarily did (or did not) do.

[jvan1973]

You missed my point completely TLJ. Bin Laden has zero relevancy in a discussion about Bill Belichick, Eric Mangini, & Roger Goodell.

Unless you want to say for comic relief that Bin Laden was holding the camera. Just Kidding!

His point is you don't need to see evidence to know the facts all the time

[southwest1]

Bob Krsft called BB a * publicly after he lost a draft pick and 250 grand. Seems his venon was directed at b.

Again, lets see some evidence Jvan. Not merely a ticked off owner of NE's organization. Proof that illegal videotaping actually took place. Did Robert Kraft state that his franchise cheated? 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

You missed my point completely TLJ. Bin Laden has zero relevancy in a discussion about Bill Belichick, Eric Mangini, & Roger Goodell.

 

Unless you want to say for comic relief that Bin Laden was holding the camera. Just Kidding!  

Actually (although vastly different levels of importance),  these situations are strikingly similar in one respect.  The outrage about the lack of evidence being shown to the public by the arbiter of the punishment.  You cannot make a claim that the videotaping did not happen just because you never saw the evidence.

[southwest1]

His point is you don't need to see evidence to know the facts all the time

Again, Bin Laden has zero, zilch, nada to do with the discussion at hand...It's trying to establish a false level of equivalency that does not exist for the topic of discussion...I know what TLJ's point was. It's not relevant to this subject matter. 

[jvan1973]

Again, lets see some evidence Jvan. Not merely a ticked off owner of NE's organization. Proof that illegal videotaping actually took place. Did Robert Kraft state that his franchise cheated?

Yes, BB admitted to taping defensive signals since 2000. Google is your friend

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Again, Bin Laden has zero, zilch, nada to do with the discussion at hand...It's trying to establish a false level of equivalency that does not exist for the topic of discussion...I know what TLJ's point was. It's not relevant to this subject matter.

My example of comparison may be a little extreme, but saying it is not relevant to the subject matter is a little short sighted and ignorant.  The fact of the matter is you are trying to refute other posters' opinions by saying it doesn't matter unless YOU and ONLY YOU see the evidence first hand.

[jvan1973]

Again, Bin Laden has zero, zilch, nada to do with the discussion at hand...It's trying to establish a false level of equivalency that does not exist for the topic of discussion...I know what TLJ's point was. It's not relevant to this subject matter.

The cowboys and redskins salary cap issues is also irrelevant to the topic.

[southwest1]

I fail to see the logic in blaming Roger Goodell for what the Pats voluntarily did (or did not) do.

Roger Goodell was in possession of the alleged tapes confiscated from the Patriots. The Commissioner, if he so chose, could have used those alleged tapes to confirm that this is why NE would be punished.

 

Also punishments, especially public examples of reprimand, are an excellent deterrent from preventing other NFL teams from engaging in similar "alleged activity" down the road season by season. 

[amfootball]

If Aaron Rodgers really said that Tom Brady's pocket presence is far better than Peyton Manning's , he is an ignorant * to the nth degree. I have been watching Pro football for 55 years and I have never seen any QB that can be mentioned in the same breath as Manning in respect to that. It's like he has eyes in the back of his head. The guy has taken about 5 hard hits in the last 14 years.

lol. You have obviously missed Brady's ninja-like moves in the pocket over the years.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Roger Goodell was in possession of the alleged tapes confiscated from the Patriots. The Commissioner, if he so chose, could have used those alleged tapes to confirm that this is why NE would be punished.

 

Also punishments, especially public examples of reprimand, are an excellent deterrent from preventing other NFL teams from engaging in similar "alleged activity" down the road season by season. 

Didn't he accomplish that by punishing them?  I haven't heard of another spygate scandal.  Have you?

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

lol. You have obviously missed Brady's ninja-like moves in the pocket over the years.

Are they ninja moves because he looks like a tree in the pocket?

[southwest1]

My example of comparison may be a little extreme, but saying it is not relevant to the subject matter is a little short sighted and ignorant.  The fact of the matter is you are trying to refute other posters' opinions by saying it doesn't matter unless YOU and ONLY YOU see the evidence first hand.

Over 3,000 people perishing at the hands of Bin Laden on Sept. 11, 2001 has nothing to do with Bill Belichick possibly stealing hand signals. No, I'm not trying to say that I alone possess evidence that proves NE did not cheat. I am merely saying that once evidence has been destroyed that can validate if illegal activity took place or not, no one can say with absolutely certainty that NE did in fact cheat. 

 

I realize that your Bin Laden point had to do with confirming that Bin Laden is in fact dead, but it's not a good example given that both examples are not on equal footing. JMO

[amfootball]

Are they ninja moves because he looks like a tree in the pocket?

Yes because if there is one QB slower than Manning, it is Brady. lol. But his pocket movement (lateral shifting) and presence is second to none.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Over 3,000 people perishing at the hands of Bin Laden on Sept. 11, 2001 has nothing to do with Bill Belichick possibly stealing hand signals. No, I'm not trying to say that I alone possess evidence that proves NE did not cheat. I am merely saying that once evidence has been destroyed that can validate if illegal activity took place or not, no one can say with absolutely certainty that NE did in fact cheat. 

 

I realize that your Bin Laden point had to do with confirming that Bin Laden is in fact dead, but it's not a good example given that both examples are not on equal footing. JMO

Except for the one that handed out the punishment.

I'm done...you really missed the whole point.  

[jvan1973]

I'm done...you really missed the whole point.

He just wont admit when he is wrong

[amfootball]

He just wont admit when he is wrong

[southwest1]

The cowboys and redskins salary cap issues is also irrelevant to the topic.

Actually, it was because I used it as an example to illustrate that the NFL Commissioner can discipline two franchises, the Redskins & the Cowboys, for any infraction based upon Roger Goodell's interpretation of what rule was or was infringed on based on the latest CBA rules & regulations. 

[southwest1]

He just wont admit when he is wrong

You can read minds now? 

[jvan1973]

What have i been wrong about?

[jvan1973]

You can read minds now?

No, just like you can't read the hundreds of articles on this subject

[amfootball]

What have i been wrong about?

[jvan1973]

That's what i thought

[amfootball]

That's what i thought

You missed the reference of the pot calling the kettle black. As you never admit your wrong and then you come back and say "what I have been wrong about?" lol.

[southwest1]

Except for the one that handed out the punishment.

I'm done...you really missed the whole point.  

Which goes back to 1 of my earlier points that the Commissioner had the authority to eliminate any question over the "alleged videotaping" by releasing the tapes themselves...

 

"The absence of direct evidence doesn't quality as direct evidence. If fans want to get upset at someone, aim that venom at Roger Goodell not Bill Belichick & the NE Patriots. JMO."