Winning BECAUSE of or DESPITE of the coaching staff?

[bluephantom87]

Heading into the bye week the Colts are 5-2 and sit atop of a bad AFC south. Now let's take a closer look... Is it because of a more talented roster than last year's 11-5 pieced together team or is it because of the schemes used by the coaches putting the BEST available players on the field and MAXIMIZING their skills to attack opposing teams weaknesses. Let me start by saying I think the Colts have the talent (with a franchise qb at the helm) to BEAT anybody in this league as evident in wins against San Fran, the Seahawks and Broncos. I could argue the Colts could be 7-0 with 2 losses coming against lesser teams (with a near miss against the Raiders) in the AFC. The Colts have been on primetime the past 2 games and brought the spotlight with it. In BOTH games commentators (former players and coaches) have questioned Pep's conservative approach trying to establish the power running game FIRST especially on early downs with Richardson yielding mixed results contributing to the slow starts instead of putting the ball in Luck's hands. I remember what Luck did last year WITHOUT Pep or Chuck on a pieced together gutted team coming off a 2-14 season that had a very BAD o-line. Despite the fact Luck went on to set nfl rookie qb passing records ALL while replacing the legendary Peyton Manning. From what I've seen so far I'm not sure Pep is capable of running a complex, flexible and diverse NFL offense especially with the passing game. The offense is basic at best with the short routes more suited for a Brady Quinn type of qb. I STILL see Luck under heavy pressure and a BETTER o-line will make life a lot easier. The short passing game has allowed teams to crowd the line of scrimmage as the season progresses with no real threat of the deep ball. The Pep led Stanford pac-10 offense seems stagnant in the nfl but is endorsed by the coservative hc with the ground and pound mentality. Luck passing for only 20 something yds in the 2nd half of the Bronco game against the worst secondary in the league is cause for concern considering the Colts had to HOLD on to pull out the victory. I never thought Trent was a dynamic back with break away speed. I thought he benefited from that MASSIVE Bama o-line in college but with that being said I think he can be servicable and productive if used correctly. The tight power I on 1st and 2nd will NOT help Trent (or the wrs who's drops are MAGNIFIED on 3rd downs instead of early downs) with the Colts and Peps lack of imagination in a wide open offense to get him the ball in space or involved with the passing game will have Trent with lackluster numbers unworthy of that 1st round pick given for him. Thoughts?

[chad72]

The secondary play is in large part attributed to the coaches, IMO. The offense, it has been a work in progress with bumps at home and on the road, especially in the first 2 games.

 

However, the Chargers' game was eerily similar to last year's Jets game. If a team does not turn it over and controls clock against us by running well, is that a recipe for beating this team?

 

Luck is the glue and this team still has to score 30 points to beat an elite team. The day we win a game 21-17 or 23-17 against the likes of the Broncos, Pats or Seahawks is the day we can rely on our D to win games on their back. If Luck has an off day, I am not sure we can hold up against the elite, just looking at the numbers objectively. We did lose 9-24 vs the Ravens in the playoffs, right?

[Smonroe]

The secondary play is in large part attributed to the coaches, IMO. The offense, it has been a work in progress with bumps at home and on the road, especially in the first 2 games.

 

However, the Chargers' game was eerily similar to last year's Jets game. If a team does not turn it over and controls clock against us by running well, is that a recipe for beating this team?

Isn't that a recipe for beating any team?

[Kenny]

The secondary play is in large part attributed to the coaches, IMO. The offense, it has been a work in progress with bumps at home and on the road, especially in the first 2 games.

 

However, the Chargers' game was eerily similar to last year's Jets game. If a team does not turn it over and controls clock against us by running well, is that a recipe for beating this team?

 

Luck is the glue and this team still has to score 30 points to beat an elite team. The day we win a game 21-17 or 23-17 against the likes of the Broncos, Pats or Seahawks is the day we can rely on our D to win games on their back. If Luck has an off day, I am not sure we can hold up against the elite, just looking at the numbers objectively. We did lose 9-24 vs the Ravens in the playoffs, right?

 

That Chargers game looked like the perfect definition of a trap game. It just seemed like we were worried more about DEN than SD.

[chad72]

Isn't that a recipe for beating any team?

 

Yes, and no. If the other team scores 3 TDs instead of 3 FGs, the odds are turned around and game situations become different. We have seen wins with 15 minutes of possession, right?

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

The secondary play is in large part attributed to the coaches, IMO. The offense, it has been a work in progress with bumps at home and on the road, especially in the first 2 games.

 

However, the Chargers' game was eerily similar to last year's Jets game. If a team does not turn it over and controls clock against us by running well, is that a recipe for beating this team?

That's a recipe for beating any team.

[Smonroe]

Yes, and no. If the other team scores 3 TDs instead of 3 FGs, the odds are turned around and game situations become different. We have seen wins with 15 minutes of possession, right?

Once, in a galaxy far, far away...

[chad72]

Once, in a galaxy far, far away...

 

That specific example, yes. But my point was we need to be able to show we can win grind it out games in the teens, that is my number one concern. Our first big step should be to take the Texans by their throat and beat them in their own house, something we have not been able to do so since 2009 (we lost with Peyton in 2010, with Luck in 2012 as well).

[Superman]

That Chargers game looked like the perfect definition of a trap game. It just seemed like we were worried more about DEN than SD.

No team has won after playing Seattle. They beat you up all game long.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

No team has won after playing Seattle. They beat you up all game long.

Well we must be a weak team then, because no team has lost the week after playing the Colts except the Jags.

[tfunky14]

Didn't the Colts just score 39 points??

[tfunky14]

Hello....?

[pacolts56]

Didn't the Colts just score 39 points??

Yep....and factor in two passes in particular against SD....a mid-range and a long strike to Fleener and DHB that were overshot or dropped.

Instant chemistry doesn't happen automatically under a new OC. Sure....Luck knew Pep's offense but no one else did.

And another thing....."Unleashing" Luck is an easy thing to want but repeated long pass attempts sometimes spells more interceptions too. It did last year, right?

I'll happily take the 5-2 record....however bumpy....with the tough part of the schedule out of the way.

[SilentHill]

Despite IMHO

[Mameluc]

Yes, and no. If the other team scores 3 TDs instead of 3 FGs, the odds are turned around and game situations become different. We have seen wins with 15 minutes of possession, right?

as an example...watch Miami vs colts game like 3 years ago.

[CanuckColt]

A little of each...

[seeblu]

That Chargers game looked like the perfect definition of a trap game. It just seemed like we were worried more about DEN than SD.

 

Looked that way to me also. 

[braveheartcolt]

Looked that way to me also.

If anyone actually thinks players drop balls during a game (or whiff on tackles) because they are thinking of the next game, then I give up.

[TKnight24]

Yep....and factor in two passes in particular against SD....a mid-range and a long strike to Fleener and DHB that were overshot or dropped.

Instant chemistry doesn't happen automatically under a new OC. Sure....Luck knew Pep's offense but no one else did.

And another thing....."Unleashing" Luck is an easy thing to want but repeated long pass attempts sometimes spells more interceptions too. It did last year, right?

I'll happily take the 5-2 record....however bumpy....with the tough part of the schedule out of the way.

Just throwing this out there, I agree with your statement 98%

You said "no one else knew Pep Hamilton's offense but Andrew Luck"

Now...... did you forget about Coby Fleener & Griff Whalen? Or are you just speaking from a general perspective about the offense?

[backshoulderfade]

People have this misconception about unleashing Luck. They seem to think it means going back to 7 step drop backs and bombing it down the field. No. We just want more 3 and 4;reciever sets, use the pass to set up the run instead of vice versa, less telegraphing runs out of fullback and 6 linemen sets.

[DavidHM]

If we play at home, our coaches seem okay. On the road, not so much.

[dudeski]

Our coaching and personnel decisions are holding this team back

[HtownColt]

Because of, and player execution when they do execute

[cbear]

Ok, I know the coaches get the blame when we lose, but now they get the blame when we win?  Really?

[dudeski]

Ok, I know the coaches get the blame when we lose, but now they get the blame when we win? Really?

it is not all about wins and losses

[WastedColt]

The offense can be very predictable at times, but it is Pep's first year. The defense is awesome though so I would say a little of both.

[HtownColt]

Offense puts up more points and less turnovers on a more consistent basis than Arians offense so Pep has to be doing something right, Pagano turned our whole secondary around into the upper level of DB groups.

Everybody loves and follows Pagano's lead and the players are fully behind him which is what all great Head coaches thrive at. Manusky has the Front seven flying around and are all together playing as one unit, nobody is out trying to make hero plays, they trust the other 10 players on the field with them to do their job. That's why all the new players gelled so quickly with this group the coaches have them trusting each other out their to do their job and don't judge and finger point when somebody misses an assignment. They play together for 60 minutes offense and defense. The coaches make the whole complex feel as one huge family. You hear it all the time when all the players talk to the media, that togetherness they have is the biggest thing coaches have to establish to be successful.

[pacolts56]

Just throwing this out there, I agree with your statement 98%

You said "no one else knew Pep Hamilton's offense but Andrew Luck"

Now...... did you forget about Coby Fleener & Griff Whalen? Or are you just speaking from a general perspective about the offense?

Yeah....that was more of a general comment. Fleener and Whalen know the system, the rest of the guys need some more time and it would REALLY help if our O-line could stay healthy and intact.

Its still just year 2 of the new regime so I totally believe they'll get better.

[t-rex]

Pep Hamilton has done a great job as OC.

 

In his defense:

 

 

1) The Colts wanted to run more this year to protect Luck. He was hit and sacked a lot last year. It was unrealistic to expect him to survive that beating again. Luck is only in his second season. A season ending injury would impact the team and the rest of his career. The running game is actually an extension of the pass protection. It was a "must" adjustment if you want you franchise QB to survive the season.

 

 

 

2) Injuries. This is the Colts offensive IR list. TE-Dwayne Allen, G-Justin Anderson, RB-Vick Ballard, RB-Ahmad Bradshaw, G-Donald Thomas, and WR-Reggie Wayne. WR-Lavon Brazille was out the first 4 games. Every team has injuries. But the Colts have lost a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball by any objective means.

 

 

 

3) This is Pep's first year as an NFL coordinator. It takes time. 

 

 

 

4) Bruce Arian's offense in Arizona has been terrible. Far worse than the Colts. And Arians has players like Palmer, Fitzgerald, Floyd, etc. The NFL is tough.

 

 

 

5) The Colts are playing a tougher schedule. In 2012 they played a last place schedule. Not true this year. The Seahawks and 49ers are 2 of the top defenses in the NFL. The Colts scored 27 and 34 points. The Seahawks won't give up 34 points again this year.

 

 

 

6) This is the last and most important fact. In 2013 the Colts are averaging 26.7 PPG. This is 7th in the league. Last year the Colts averaged 22.3 PPG. That was 18th in the NFL. This is a huge improvement compared to last year. Especially given the injuries. Our offensive production has been excellent. Its far superior to last year. We have one of the top offenses in the NFL. 

 

 

This is a first year OC. With a second year QB. And a second year HC who missed most of last year himself. He is in an environment where everyone wants to win now with a team that was 2-14 just a year and a half ago. Pep Hamilton is doing a fantastic job. In NFL circles, he is getting exceptionally high grades through the first part of the season.

[Legend of Luck]

Hello....?

You PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

[t-rex]

Here is the Colts offensive PPG for the last 6 years.

 

 

 

2013-26.7 PPG (Through 7 games)

 

2012-22.3 PPG

 

2011-13.2 PPG

 

2010-27.2 PPG

 

2009-26.0 PPG

 

2008-23.6 PPG

 

2007-28.1 PPG

 

Colts fans should be ecstatic with the job Pep Hamilton is doing.

[Crunked]

After reading 8 or so of the top threads here today I have determined the bye week may be restful and helpful for the team, but the fans.......not so much LOL

[dudeski]

You PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

perfect

[bluephantom87]

I think what's UNDERvalued is the growth of Luck from a rookie #1 overall pick (with HUGE expectations placed on his shoulders; MANNING alone would CRUSH most) to year 2. I think Pep has done an ok job to this point and the ONLY reason I say that is because I don't think he's getting the MOST from what this offense is truly capable of even the use of Trent. To compare last year's numbers on offense to this year's is a little far fetched and DOES NOT justify Pep being great as an oc. Last year's o-line was pieced together with castoffs, lead by a ROOKIE qb, with ROOKIES at the skill positions and the great Reggie Wayne. Bruce got the MOST from that group talent wise. If Pep had that SAME group I don't think they even average 20pts a game. Give some credit to this years defense and special teams unit who have created turnovers and given the o some short fields. Make no mistake about it Grigs has amped the talent level from last year's team to this year along with Irsay opening his wallet to make it happen. Injuries are part of the game and every team has to deal with them. Depth has been good. Ballard goes down but Bradshaw takes over with Richardson coming onboard via trade. As injuries mount the great coaches ADAPT with players onboard and play to THEIR strengths to keep winning. (see Hoody when he lost Brady for the season vs Caldwell when Peyton went down) The Texans game will be a big test on the road for the Colts and the coaching staff coming off a bye week. Although Houston is 2-5 they should not be taken lightly. For all the good in the Seahawk game the Colts were beat down physically on the road the following week against a 2-3 Charger team with a national audience watching. Putting a strangle hold on the division starts with this game. The Colts need to come out aggressive on BOTH sides of the ball. I expect Case Keenum to be the qb even though Gary K is saying Matt will be back. If Pep and the offense come out slow like they have the lead being stopped on 1st and 2nd in the power I without Reggie and the defense comes out vanilla against Case, the Colts will lose this one.

[BOTT]

Here is the Colts offensive PPG for the last 6 years.

 

 

 

2013-26.7 PPG (Through 7 games)

 

2012-22.3 PPG

 

2011-13.2 PPG

 

2010-27.2 PPG

 

2009-26.0 PPG

 

2008-23.6 PPG

 

2007-28.1 PPG

 

Colts fans should be ecstatic with the job Pep Hamilton is doing.

Colts fans aren't happy unless the team chucks it around like a madden game.

[tenbears1971]

The author here makes a good point. Pep is a very predictable offensive coordinator. We are 1) Starting every game in tight formations for very predictable run calls where TR gets stuffed 2) Opening up the the offense to where Luck shines and does what he did last year when down and finally 3) Going back into the shell when up and becoming a predictable run team and hanging on for dear life to try and win.

THE difference from last year is our defense is spectacular and our offense is 50% way too uncreative and vanilla. They need to do what half this forum and most commentators have said - run on less predictable downs and run from spread formations.

[throwing BBZ]

People have this misconception about unleashing Luck. They seem to think it means going back to 7 step drop backs and bombing it down the field. No. We just want more 3 and 4;reciever sets, use the pass to set up the run instead of vice versa, less telegraphing runs out of fullback and 6 linemen sets.

 

Our Horrible line can`t handle 5 OR 7 step drops. Andrews turnovers are way down and his timing is slowly getting better.

These coaches are STUCK with 3 interior O-lineman that are just not very good. You can`t FIX them. But they can improve some with practice and game reps.

 

 And we don`t have all the pieces/experience for a solid D front seven just yet. You saw them trying some new stuff up front against Denver.

Just thinking, adapting, trying to figure out how to get the most they can outa the players they got.

 Coach P will have his system with experienced players locked in together in another season or two.

 Him & Griggs will have a real top 10 D for us year in and year out soon, very soon. I Believe it anyway.

 

 Let them BUILD It ya impatient buncha goofs!

 Pep doesn`t know/isn`t capable of developing a diverse O? Stark Raving GobblDgook!

  Just go ahead and give me a WARNING for what I am thinking about that idea- your highness.

[throwing BBZ]

I think what's UNDERvalued is the growth of Luck from a rookie #1 overall pick (with HUGE expectations placed on his shoulders; MANNING alone would CRUSH most) to year 2. I think Pep has done an ok job to this point and the ONLY reason I say that is because I don't think he's getting the MOST from what this offense is truly capable of even the use of Trent. To compare last year's numbers on offense to this year's is a little far fetched and DOES NOT justify Pep being great as an oc. Last year's o-line was pieced together with castoffs, lead by a ROOKIE qb, with ROOKIES at the skill positions and the great Reggie Wayne. Bruce got the MOST from that group talent wise. If Pep had that SAME group I don't think they even average 20pts a game. Give some credit to this years defense and special teams unit who have created turnovers and given the o some short fields. Make no mistake about it Grigs has amped the talent level from last year's team to this year along with Irsay opening his wallet to make it happen. Injuries are part of the game and every team has to deal with them. Depth has been good. Ballard goes down but Bradshaw takes over with Richardson coming onboard via trade. As injuries mount the great coaches ADAPT with players onboard and play to THEIR strengths to keep winning. (see Hoody when he lost Brady for the season vs Caldwell when Peyton went down) The Texans game will be a big test on the road for the Colts and the coaching staff coming off a bye week. Although Houston is 2-5 they should not be taken lightly. For all the good in the Seahawk game the Colts were beat down physically on the road the following week against a 2-3 Charger team with a national audience watching. Putting a strangle hold on the division starts with this game. The Colts need to come out aggressive on BOTH sides of the ball. I expect Case Keenum to be the qb even though Gary K is saying Matt will be back. If Pep and the offense come out slow like they have the lead being stopped on 1st and 2nd in the power I without Reggie and the defense comes out vanilla against Case, the Colts will lose this one.

 

The Charger team is better than what ya`ll are giving them credit for, you aren`t allowing for how bad the Seahwaks beat US Down Physically, like they do EVERYONE, or thinking about how much Allen added to the offense as compared to a Stationary Reitz. We consistently ran behind Castonzo and got some yardage last season, where is that NOW?

 

 Pep is Building this new Offense, week to week. As the players Get It, it will become sharper and more diverse.

We see now, IMO, that TY has GOOD hands. Andrew is still having trouble laying it right on him on the shorter, what should be higher percentage, less risky routes. Maybe in a year or two?

 Its a SHAME Andrew threw 50 balls to many at Reggie last season and didn`t work more on his short game. NOW, he will have plenty of chances to make up for those decisions.

[OffensivelyPC]

Of the two games we lost, one we lost because we got away from our typical game plan and we played the way so many people scream for - Luck throwing a the ball a bunch and taking more shots downfield.  One drive ended in an interception and the other in a game sealing sack.  The other game we lost because our players just simply didn't show up to play - had nothing to do with Pep's play calling.  So are we winning despite coaching?  No.  When our players have executed the game plan, we have faired pretty well. 

[Superman]

Pep Hamilton has a lot of improvement to make, but to say we're winning in spite of him is crazy. Our first half schedule had been the toughest in the league, and we're 5-2 with three huge wins. Last year we were 3-4 at this point, with a much easier schedule. The team is much improved. Lots of work to do still, but we're in a good place.